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Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#1521 » by gravytrain24 » Wed May 16, 2018 9:44 pm

Dat2U wrote:
Dark Faze wrote:Cousins unfollowed the Pels in instagram

Oubre, Mahinmi, Markieff, and our second this year for Cuz in a sign and trade

PIF incoming! :lol:


Someone please help me understand how does DeMarcus Cousins with a busted achillies defends on the perimeter?

John would tell him its cool, just sit out in until February. He should be fully healed by then making 20 mil.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#1522 » by gravytrain24 » Wed May 16, 2018 9:45 pm

NatP4 wrote:Wall and Oubre to SAC for Fox, Koufos, and the 2nd overall pick. :lol: :lol:

Did you see enough from Fox to want him or are you just trading for the space and pick.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#1523 » by Ruzious » Wed May 16, 2018 9:49 pm

Dat2U wrote:
DANNYLANDOVER wrote:
nate33 wrote:It all depends on their goals. Wall can instantly put butts in seats. And he can help other youngsters develop by making the game easier for them.

I'd be willing to take back some dead weight salary in the deal if necessary.

I still don't see any sensible GM making that trade. Beal, I can see.



Come on guys, lets be real. How many GMs are truly worried about the cap implications of a deal 5 years down the road??? How many of those GMs will hold the same position in 5 years from now outside of Grunfeld???

The NBA is a win now business. Look at the huge deals given every offseason. Teams always feel they can move a player later if needed --- and often make disastrous longterm decisions when handing out contracts. Will some GMs cringe about Wall's long term contract and pass on a deal? Absolutely! But it only takes one GM to bite. And more than one GM likely would considering Wall's talent.

I think there are some teams that would benefit financially from getting Wall - because they have no name attraction like him - not many - but a few. He's a dynamic player that can attract a fan base... like he did here when the basketball town was dead. But I still need to find out if there's a poison pill involved caused by his extension.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#1524 » by NatP4 » Wed May 16, 2018 9:52 pm

gravytrain24 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Wall and Oubre to SAC for Fox, Koufos, and the 2nd overall pick. :lol: :lol:

Did you see enough from Fox to want him or are you just trading for the space and pick.


Primarily for the space and pick, but Fox has shown some nice things. He’s not an Emmanuel Mudiay situation. Very talented

Most young PGs struggle, Fox was one of the 5 worst point guards in the NBA last year, but he passes the eye test.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#1525 » by nate33 » Wed May 16, 2018 9:52 pm

Dat2U wrote:Noel is a FA and can't be traded.

I know.

I'm saying if we trade away Wall for a pick, and only take make some modest salary, there would be room under the luxtax to sign Noel using the MLE.

The way things are going, I think Boston's system for handling the center spot is ideal. You want your primary center to be an agile guy, even if he is a bit undersized (like Horford). It's more important to be able to switch everything on the perimeter than it is to have an elite post defender. Ideally, you have at least one old school plodding center as a back up (like Aron Baynes) that you use in certain matchups (like against Embiid or Valanciunas).

So Noel would be the starter, and Mahinmi the backup.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#1526 » by nate33 » Wed May 16, 2018 10:07 pm

Ruzious wrote:I think there are some teams that would benefit financially from getting Wall - because they have no name attraction like him - not many - but a few. He's a dynamic player that can attract a fan base... like he did here when the basketball town was dead. But I still need to find out if there's a poison pill involved caused by his extension.

I dug around in Larry Coons FAQ's and couldn't find anything. It just said guys signed to supermax extensions can't be traded until one full year after signing (which elapses this July). It says that the poison pill provision only applies to extending rookie contracts or Gilbert Arenas contracts.

It does seem like poison pill should apply to the Wall situation. I just can't find any evidence that it does.

I suppose the purpose of the poison pill is to prevent manipulation of the rules whereby you sign-and-trade a player to a huge contract in order to take back a big contract. Perhaps the 1-year no-trade restriction is believed to be sufficient disincentive for teams to try that in supermax situations, thereby rendering the poison pill provision unnecessary.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#1527 » by payitforward » Wed May 16, 2018 10:14 pm

Dat2U wrote:... Compare Gortat to other starting Cs and he's near the very bottom of that list.

I assume you're talking about last season. If so, is that claim based on eye-test or numbers?

If eye-test, we can just leave it as the claim of an experienced basketball fan, no problem no argument.

If it's based on numbers, I'd be interested in what numbers. & instead of talking about "starting" centers, perhaps it could be centers who played over 2000 minutes? Maybe even 1800?

Not looking for an argument, just interested in your thinking.

It's kind of obvious that there are Centers who put up great box score numbers but are so bad at things that don't figure into box score numbers that they are obviously not helping their teams win w/ those numbers: Enes Kanter leaps to mind.

Still, numbers have to figure in somehow. Gortat's numbers have declined some but are still extremely good.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#1528 » by payitforward » Wed May 16, 2018 10:17 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
DCZards wrote:Wait...didn't you just write this a few days ago when discussing Sato vs. Lawson?
NatP4 wrote:why would anyone value a 6 game sample size over an entire season

:)

Lol. See my post above. All in fun Nat

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#1529 » by payitforward » Wed May 16, 2018 10:19 pm

Dat2U wrote:
Dark Faze wrote:Cousins unfollowed the Pels in instagram

Oubre, Mahinmi, Markieff, and our second this year for Cuz in a sign and trade

PIF incoming! :lol:

Someone please help me understand how does DeMarcus Cousins with a busted achillies defends on the perimeter?

The bench is located on the perimeter, Dat.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#1530 » by DANNYLANDOVER » Thu May 17, 2018 2:00 am

Ruzious wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
DANNYLANDOVER wrote:I still don't see any sensible GM making that trade. Beal, I can see.



Come on guys, lets be real. How many GMs are truly worried about the cap implications of a deal 5 years down the road??? How many of those GMs will hold the same position in 5 years from now outside of Grunfeld???

The NBA is a win now business. Look at the huge deals given every offseason. Teams always feel they can move a player later if needed --- and often make disastrous longterm decisions when handing out contracts. Will some GMs cringe about Wall's long term contract and pass on a deal? Absolutely! But it only takes one GM to bite. And more than one GM likely would considering Wall's talent.

I think there are some teams that would benefit financially from getting Wall - because they have no name attraction like him - not many - but a few. He's a dynamic player that can attract a fan base... like he did here when the basketball town was dead. But I still need to find out if there's a poison pill involved caused by his extension.


Yeah, but for a top 3 pick? That's way too optimistic. I can see a mid-lottery pick.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#1531 » by dangermouse » Thu May 17, 2018 5:55 am

nate33 wrote:So, after the lotto drawing, the draft order is Phoenix #1, Sacramento #2, and Atlanta #3,

All 3 teams have enough cap room to absorb Wall's salary. Wall straight up for a top 3 pick? Then add Noel

Tank for a season while we groom the #3 pick and the #15 pick while trying to move Gortat and Morris.

Add a lotto pick in 2019 and shop in free agency for one more good young player and our lineup in 2019 will include:
2018 top 3 pick
2019 lotto pick
Sato
Beal
Oubre
Porter
Noel
2018 #15 pick
Good young free agent (how about Rozier?)


Rozier could start at PG IMO. Not be a focal point of a team... but on a team like the Spurs he would be REALLY good.
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long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:
NatP4 wrote:but why would the pacers want Mahinmi's contract


Well, in fairness, we took Mike Pence off their hands. Taking back Mahinmi is the least they can do.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#1532 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu May 17, 2018 11:18 am

Just remember, Dat is the best draft expert here.

That said, I got the gift from God.

I Believe by far I've been knowing more about the draft over the years. Some things that man tries to figure out some people can just see.

I have my share of misses. I look at the draft process and shake my head at the resources they throw at scouting only to come up with such a horrible pick as Jan Vesely number 6.

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#1533 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu May 17, 2018 11:19 am

I am such a genius that the last two posts, I thought I was in the draft thread and this is the trade thread.



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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#1534 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu May 17, 2018 11:20 am

The Wizards need to trade Wall.

They need to trade Wall and Mahinmi and their pick to try to get Phoenix to give up something.... Not necessarily Deandre Ayton.

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Re: RE: Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#1535 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu May 17, 2018 11:24 am

Dark Faze wrote:If it came to moving Wall, I'd really rather just tank and hold a firesale and sell out for picks. Kemba/Beal/Porter/Picks doesn't change our chances much at all in my mind.
John Wall is a poor leader. He does exactly what James Harden did game one where Houston got their butt kicked. Sits there and dribbles the ball a billion times. And, I really don't mind that part. Wall misses the key shots. Worst of all he never sees it as his fault and thinks the organization needs better players around him when he is the main problem of execution on offense in the crunch time.

I enjoyed the Everybody Eats portion of the season and I can see the Wizards without wall not missing a beat.

But on the other hand the real reason to get rid of John is twofold. Washington is not going to win anything anytime soon. John has a risk of hurting his knee again or diminishing his skills as a super max player.

It makes sense to me to send him to a winning situation right now.
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Re: RE: Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#1536 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu May 17, 2018 11:25 am

Dat2U wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Alec Burks is not worse than Gortat

Wait, are you serious?
Lets look at the last 3 years for each player:

GP
Burks: 31, 42, 64 (4 total starts)
Gortat: 75, 82, 82 (238 total starts)

TS
Burks: 52, 50, 52
Gortat: 59, 59, 55

BPM
Burks: -2.5, -4.2, -2.8
Gortat: 1.2, 0.3, 0.3

RPM
Burks: -2.01, -3.41, -2.36
Gortat: 1.82, -.07, -.10

So the injured, less-efficient player is better? Got it


Comparing players at different positions isn't really ideal. Compare Gortat to other starting Cs and he's near the very bottom of that list.
Good point.

Jarrett Allen is already better than Gortat and Ernie **** that up royally.

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Re: RE: Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#1537 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu May 17, 2018 11:26 am

Dat2U wrote:
NatP4 wrote:
Dark Faze wrote:If it came to moving Wall, I'd really rather just tank and hold a firesale and sell out for picks. Kemba/Beal/Porter/Picks doesn't change our chances much at all in my mind.


what about Kemba/Beal/Porter/multiple picks/max cap space?

Beal and Porter are only 24.


If your going to attempt to compete with this group, you might as well do it with the guy that has averaged 27 & 10 and 26 & 11 over the last two playoffs. 8th in BPM this year among guys in the playoffs. I don't know what player you could trade Wall for that could give you that type of impact in the playoffs.

Guys like Walker, Lillard & Lowry seem to be more consistent regular season performers but in the playoffs, none have raised their game to another level - other than Wall.
Here is where my Wall bashing makes me look like a total idiot.

Wow has at times played in God mode where he is indeed a superstar. He's really great except for in the crunch time of the playoffs.

It would be a heck of a lot better to put great players around him but I don't see these Wizards being able to do it.

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Re: RE: Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#1538 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu May 17, 2018 11:29 am

NatP4 wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
NatP4 wrote:
what about Kemba/Beal/Porter/multiple picks/max cap space?

Beal and Porter are only 24.


If your going to attempt to compete with this group, you might as well do it with the guy that has averaged 27 & 10 and 26 & 11 over the last two playoffs. 8th in BPM this year among guys in the playoffs. I don't know what player you could trade Wall for that could give you that type of impact in the playoffs.

Guys like Walker, Lillard & Lowry seem to be more consistent regular season performers but in the playoffs, none have raised their game to another level - other than Wall.



Was just playing devils advocate. I’m still in the retool around Wall Beal Porter group
I say trade someone and offload two centers' contracts.

Beal is the most easily replaced. Kelly Oubre, Tomas Satoransky, Sheldon Mac, Garrett Temple, Zhaire Smith can play effectively at stop gaps if Bill were traded. Smith has the athletic goods two step right in as a rookie and be adequate if not good.

It just does not make sense for me to see the team trade Porter.



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Re: RE: Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#1539 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu May 17, 2018 11:30 am

NatP4 wrote:Wall and Oubre to SAC for Fox, Koufos, and the 2nd overall pick.
Bye John.

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Re: RE: Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXV 

Post#1540 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu May 17, 2018 11:31 am

Dark Faze wrote:Cousins unfollowed the Pels in instagram

Oubre, Mahinmi, Markieff, and our second this year for Cuz in a sign and trade

PIF incoming!
Sure, if you can get him for peanuts.

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