Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII

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EG sucks the joy and hope right out of this team and the owner is too stupid to understand why.

EG is terrible... but why are we buying this?
A KCP/Wall trade could Not occur until the 15th of January, but Wall was hurt in December. I can see the offer, but for us to act like there was any way that this was getting done is a little uninformed.

Make that December 15 that the trade was possible.

On December 16, we beat LA -- Wall played 42 minutes, scored 40 points on 27 FGAs & 6 FTAs, had 14 assists, 6 boards, & 2 blocked shots. He did turn it over 5 times that night, but he compensated with 3 steals.

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...What a great deal for the Wizards! But as pcbothwel points out, the deal couldn't have taken place until after Wall got hurt. I suppose EG may have stupidly rejected the offer in late November when it was originally extended as a hypothetical to take place on Dec. 15th, but ultimately, even if EG accepted the offer back in late November, the offer would likely have been rescinded by Dec. 15th anyway....

If so, it would have been offered again on December 17 -- see my post above.

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Let's see if we can sweeten the pot a bit.

We have the ability to give Lebron some really good veteran role players to give him a fighting chance in playoffs. Let's throw in Ariza and Jeff Green while absorbing Stephenson and Beasley.

So technically, it would be 2 trades (to get around the Ariza trade limitations).

Trade 1: Ariza for Ball + Beasley
Trade 2: Wall and Green for KCP + Stevenson + Hart

The moves save us 6.7M and get us out of the luxtax. LA keeps Rondo (who should be healthy soon) to play PG. They keep Ingram as a player or trade asset. They keep Kuzma. They still have Chandler. And they add Ariza and Jeff Green. If they could add one more decent veteran guard from the waiver wire, they'd be a contender. They don't take on any salary past this summer (except Wall).

There's another way to do it where we also incorporate a Howard for McGee swap. But I don't think LA would want Howard given his history there.

It's really a good deal all around, if you accept the premise that LA is willing to swallow Wall's contract. LA gets much better for the playoff run while only exchanging expiring contracts. We dump enough salary to get out of the luxtax. We get rid of Wall's gargantuan contact. And we end up with two young prospects in Ball and Hart who would round out our backcourt nicely, but due to Ball's injury and the loss of Green and Ariza we probably miss the playoffs and get a lottery pick.

Our future roster is in great shape for the near and long term:

PG Sato/Ball
SG Beal/Hart
SF Brown/Dekker
PF Porter/lotto pick
C Bryant/Mahinmi

Beal, Hart and Sato can all play some SF if necessary. Heck, the payroll is only $92M plus the cost of Sato, Dekker and Bryant. And it gets even more inexpensive a year later when Mahinmi comes off the books.

Brilliant, nate!!

[nate33]

EG sucks the joy and hope right out of this team and the owner is too stupid to understand why.

EG is terrible... but why are we buying this?
A KCP/Wall trade could Not occur until the 15th of January, but Wall was hurt in December. I can see the offer, but for us to act like there was any way that this was getting done is a little uninformed.

Make that December 15 that the trade was possible.

On December 16, we beat LA -- Wall played 42 minutes, scored 40 points on 27 FGAs & 6 FTAs, had 14 assists, 6 boards, & 2 blocked shots. He did turn it over 5 times that night, but he compensated with 3 steals.

I tried inadvertently go give EG a pass on blowing this trade, but I was wrong. He blew it. Big time! If that deal was actually on the table and he declined, what an opportunity lost!

[pcbothwel]

Let's see if we can sweeten the pot a bit.

We have the ability to give Lebron some really good veteran role players to give him a fighting chance in playoffs. Let's throw in Ariza and Jeff Green while absorbing Stephenson and Beasley.

So technically, it would be 2 trades (to get around the Ariza trade limitations).

Trade 1: Ariza for Ball + Beasley
Trade 2: Wall and Green for KCP + Stevenson + Hart

The moves save us 6.7M and get us out of the luxtax. LA keeps Rondo (who should be healthy soon) to play PG. They keep Ingram as a player or trade asset. They keep Kuzma. They still have Chandler. And they add Ariza and Jeff Green. If they could add one more decent veteran guard from the waiver wire, they'd be a contender. They don't take on any salary past this summer (except Wall).

There's another way to do it where we also incorporate a Howard for McGee swap. But I don't think LA would want Howard given his history there.

It's really a good deal all around, if you accept the premise that LA is willing to swallow Wall's contract. LA gets much better for the playoff run while only exchanging expiring contracts. We dump enough salary to get out of the luxtax. We get rid of Wall's gargantuan contact. And we end up with two young prospects in Ball and Hart who would round out our backcourt nicely, but due to Ball's injury and the loss of Green and Ariza we probably miss the playoffs and get a lottery pick.

Our future roster is in great shape for the near and long term:

PG Sato/Ball
SG Beal/Hart
SF Brown/Dekker
PF Porter/lotto pick
C Bryant/Mahinmi

Beal, Hart and Sato can all play some SF if necessary. Heck, the payroll is only $92M plus the cost of Sato, Dekker and Bryant. And it gets even more inexpensive a year later when Mahinmi comes off the books.

Brilliant, nate!!

LOLOL... Brilliant for who? Certainly not the Lakers. The premise of them taking on Walls MASSIVE contract is a huge pill to swallow. On top of that, they dont get better.

Ariza + Green is not really better than Hart, Stephenson, Ball, and KCP.

[nate33]

Let's see if we can sweeten the pot a bit.

We have the ability to give Lebron some really good veteran role players to give him a fighting chance in playoffs. Let's throw in Ariza and Jeff Green while absorbing Stephenson and Beasley.

So technically, it would be 2 trades (to get around the Ariza trade limitations).

Trade 1: Ariza for Ball + Beasley
Trade 2: Wall and Green for KCP + Stevenson + Hart

The moves save us 6.7M and get us out of the luxtax. LA keeps Rondo (who should be healthy soon) to play PG. They keep Ingram as a player or trade asset. They keep Kuzma. They still have Chandler. And they add Ariza and Jeff Green. If they could add one more decent veteran guard from the waiver wire, they'd be a contender. They don't take on any salary past this summer (except Wall).

There's another way to do it where we also incorporate a Howard for McGee swap. But I don't think LA would want Howard given his history there.

It's really a good deal all around, if you accept the premise that LA is willing to swallow Wall's contract. LA gets much better for the playoff run while only exchanging expiring contracts. We dump enough salary to get out of the luxtax. We get rid of Wall's gargantuan contact. And we end up with two young prospects in Ball and Hart who would round out our backcourt nicely, but due to Ball's injury and the loss of Green and Ariza we probably miss the playoffs and get a lottery pick.

Our future roster is in great shape for the near and long term:

PG Sato/Ball
SG Beal/Hart
SF Brown/Dekker
PF Porter/lotto pick
C Bryant/Mahinmi

Beal, Hart and Sato can all play some SF if necessary. Heck, the payroll is only $92M plus the cost of Sato, Dekker and Bryant. And it gets even more inexpensive a year later when Mahinmi comes off the books.

Brilliant, nate!!

LOLOL... Brilliant for who? Certainly not the Lakers. The premise of them taking on Walls MASSIVE contract is a huge pill to swallow. On top of that, they dont get better.

Ariza + Green is not really better than Hart, Stephenson, Ball, and KCP.

KCP, Ball and Hart were already coming here in the reported Wall trade. I just tacked on Ariza + Green for Stevenson + Beasley. I consider that a sweetener for LA.

I'd do the whole thing without Hart if necessary. I was just building on the original trade premise.

[pcbothwel]

Brilliant, nate!!

LOLOL... Brilliant for who? Certainly not the Lakers. The premise of them taking on Walls MASSIVE contract is a huge pill to swallow. On top of that, they dont get better.

Ariza + Green is not really better than Hart, Stephenson, Ball, and KCP.

KCP, Ball and Hart were already coming here in the reported Wall trade. I just tacked on Ariza + Green for Stevenson + Beasley. I consider that a sweetener for LA.

I'd do the whole thing without Hart if necessary. I was just building on the original trade premise.

Im so confused... Wall is out for the year. What good does that do the Lakers run now?

[Ruzious]

It'd be great, but realize Wall will have to show he's healthy before anyone would consider trading for him. So no way he gets traded till we're into next season, and even then, it's unlikely.

[Ruzious]

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Ouch, I remember suggesting that very trade - saying I'd rather have Ingram, but it's more realistic that the Lakers would want to include Hart rather than Ingram.

Yes, & we differed about Hart vs. Ingram -- but in either case... how could Ernie have turned that down?

I think we might also have been calling for them to give us their R1 pick as well -- or am I mis-remembering? Number of young guys they have, you'd think that might have been possible.

Yup, I will go as far to say that I wish you were the Wiz GM then.

[80sballboy]

The trade never could have been made. Why? The Lakers aren’t taking Wall without a complete physical exam.

[Dat2U]

The trade never could have been made. Why? The Lakers aren’t taking Wall without a complete physical exam.

I truly question if Wall really shut it down due to injury or due to frustration.

The trade was engineered by Rich Paul, John & LeBron's agent. Apparently John was really pushing hard for this deal to be done.

The Wizards did not want to move Wall.

Wall displays questionable effort ALL season, but against the Lakers he went bonkers, playing with an energy he didn't display in any other game this season. He also didn't stand around on D or off the ball that game. He was completely engaged --- like he was for the playoffs.

This is why I've openly questioned on twitter whether Wall actually quit on the Wizards.

Maybe he was not happy he wasn't going to be traded?

The Lakers game is what I keep going back to. The injury excuse doesn't hold weight when I see the lack of effort before and after that game but he's at max effort in that one game. It simply didn't pass the eye test for me.

[DCZards]

The trade never could have been made. Why? The Lakers aren’t taking Wall without a complete physical exam.

I truly question if Wall really shut it down due to injury or due to frustration.

The trade was engineered by Rich Paul, John & LeBron's agent. Apparently John was really pushing hard for this deal to be done.

The Wizards did not want to move Wall.

Wall displays questionable effort ALL season, but against the Lakers he went bonkers, playing with an energy he didn't display in any other game this season. He also didn't stand around on D or off the ball that game. He was completely engaged --- like he was for the playoffs.

This is why I've openly questioned on twitter whether Wall actually quit on the Wizards.

Maybe he was not happy he wasn't going to be traded?

The Lakers game is what I keep going back to. The injury excuse doesn't hold weight when I see the lack of effort before and after that game but he's at max effort in that one game. It simply didn't pass the eye test for me.

Dat, that's a pretty damning statement based on very little evidence. Yes, Wall had his best game against the Lakers and I understand how that could raise questions. But it very well could be that Wall's injured heel may have let him get up for a game here and there, but the injury may have prevented him from playing like that consistently.

Also, seems to me that Wall has played hurt in the past and, from what I can tell, has sucked it up and not complained.

Here's what one report said about John's heel injury. Sounds pretty serious to me.

Wizards guard John Wall will undergo a debridement and repair of a Haglund's deformity and a chronic Achilles tendon injury in his left heel.

Here's more detail about Haglund's deformity:

Haglund's deformity is a bony enlargement on the back of the heel. The soft tissue near the Achilles tendon becomes irritated when the bony enlargement rubs against shoes. This often leads to painful bursitis, which is an inflammation of the bursa (a fluid-filled sac between the tendon and bone).

[payitforward]

Ouch, I remember suggesting that very trade - saying I'd rather have Ingram, but it's more realistic that the Lakers would want to include Hart rather than Ingram.

Yes, & we differed about Hart vs. Ingram -- but in either case... how could Ernie have turned that down?

I think we might also have been calling for them to give us their R1 pick as well -- or am I mis-remembering? Number of young guys they have, you'd think that might have been possible.

Yup, I will go as far to say that I wish you were the Wiz GM then.

Vice versa.... I wish you were the GM.

Or, I wish Ernie were the Lakers GM!! Or anybody's... just not ours!

[payitforward]

I don't think there has to be a right and wrong in this, Zards. If the injury meant that he couldn't go every night, it still could be the case that he chose the Lakers game as one to go after it. & it still might have been (in a sense) his "tryout" for LA.

Of course, neither John Wall nor any player can "choose" to score 40 points on 27 shots while dishing out 14 assists, etc.

From the description of Haglund's deformity (a horrible-sounding name, for sure!) it seems to be something that could at least in part be addressed by custom shoes. Moreover, a "debridement" is, essentially, sanding down the protuberating enlargement. No fun I'm sure, but this is not a serious injury in the sense that, e.g., tearing an ACL is.

It's also true that,

Spoiler:

although I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, I'm no doctor, so who knows whether what I just wrote means anything at all, right?

[DCZards]

I don't think there has to be a right and wrong in this, Zards. If the injury meant that he couldn't go every night, it still could be the case that he chose the Lakers game as one to go after it. & it still might have been (in a sense) his "tryout" for LA.

Of course, neither John Wall nor any player can "choose" to score 40 points on 27 shots while dishing out 14 assists, etc.

From the description of Haglund's deformity (a horrible-sounding name, for sure!) it seems to be something that could at least in part be addressed by custom shoes. Moreover, a "debridement" is, essentially, sanding down the protuberating enlargement. No fun I'm sure, but this is not a serious injury in the sense that, e.g., tearing an ACL is.

It's also true that,

Spoiler:

although I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, I'm no doctor, so who knows whether what I just wrote means anything at all, right?

Mike Conley had a similar heel problem last year and had to have season-ending surgery. Both Conley and John said it was a nagging injury that they had lived with for some time.

Custom shoes may be an option for those of us who have office jobs, but I suspect that for men who make their living running up and down hardwood floors—and jumping up and down—custom shoes are not an option. If it was something as simple as custom shoes I’m sure that would have been figured out in both the Conley and Wall case.

I’m guessing that it’s a much more serious injury than you seem to believe.

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...I’m guessing that it’s a much more serious injury than you seem to believe.

Zards, I don't have the faintest notion of what that injury is! I'm going to need to check back in to the Holiday Inn Express. Or... I know; I'll ask Alexa....

"Hey Alexa, who's the fairest one of all?"

"Why you are, PIF, of course!"

"Tell me Alexa, does anyone else on the Wizards board approach me in wisdom?"

"Give me a second, PIF, & I'll check. ... ... ... Why, yes, PIF, a goodly number of them run circles around your sorry a$$."

"What? Alexa!?! What are you saying? I thought you were loyal! That it was like we were married!"

"Well, PIF, I guess you don't know what 'debridement,' huh?"

[nate33]

The trade never could have been made. Why? The Lakers aren’t taking Wall without a complete physical exam.

I truly question if Wall really shut it down due to injury or due to frustration.

The trade was engineered by Rich Paul, John & LeBron's agent. Apparently John was really pushing hard for this deal to be done.

The Wizards did not want to move Wall.

Wall displays questionable effort ALL season, but against the Lakers he went bonkers, playing with an energy he didn't display in any other game this season. He also didn't stand around on D or off the ball that game. He was completely engaged --- like he was for the playoffs.

This is why I've openly questioned on twitter whether Wall actually quit on the Wizards.

Maybe he was not happy he wasn't going to be traded?

The Lakers game is what I keep going back to. The injury excuse doesn't hold weight when I see the lack of effort before and after that game but he's at max effort in that one game. It simply didn't pass the eye test for me.

Interesting. So you think Wall was basically dogging it in order to force a trade.

If that's the case, then I can't fathom why EG didn't pull the trigger. The deal on the table was fair, and the alternative was to have a disgruntled John Wall with an unmovable contract.

[popper]

...I’m guessing that it’s a much more serious injury than you seem to believe.

Zards, I don't have the faintest notion of what that injury is! I'm going to need to check back in to the Holiday Inn Express. Or... I know; I'll ask Alexa....

"Hey Alexa, who's the fairest one of all?"

"Why you are, PIF, of course!"

"Tell me Alexa, does anyone else on the Wizards board approach me in wisdom?"

"Give me a second, PIF, & I'll check. ... ... ... Why, yes, PIF, a goodly number of them run circles around your sorry a$$."

"What? Alexa!?! What are you saying? I thought you were loyal! That it was like we were married!"

"Well, PIF, I guess you don't know what 'debridement,' huh?"

Glad to see you’re back on the weed PIF.

[gambitx777]

I wonder if the lakers would still be interested since they have a lot of injuries, maybe they would still like wall and they can load up and go at it next year? KCP and Ball or **** it KCp and any one plus wagnor ? probably not.

[rl25g]

Wall and Morris for Conley?