ImageImageImageImageImage

2020 Draft

Moderators: nate33, LyricalRico, montestewart

User avatar
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 54,688
And1: 8,770
Joined: Oct 28, 2002

Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#161 » by nate33 » Sat Nov 9, 2019 3:22 am

Ruzious wrote:The heights below are without shoes - so add an inch for traditional measurements. And don't ask me how Ilyasova lost 2 inches. If he loses another 2 inches next year, there could be a problem.
Read on Twitter

Robin Lopez is 7-1 without shoes?
prime1time
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,260
And1: 692
Joined: Nov 02, 2016
         

Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#162 » by prime1time » Sat Nov 9, 2019 4:13 am

pcbothwel wrote:^^^ Disagree. Being a "Minus" defensively as a PG is all relative. His IQ is tremendous and I think he can very much be a Steph-like defender that wins on Grit and IQ.

Trae and Garland are built like toddlers. Cole is built like Lillard/Kyrie/Bledsoe at About 6'2-6'3, 190 lbs as a 19 y/o. I think he will be a Dame like offensive player, and a slightly better defender.

All-NBA Guard ceiling with VERY high floor due to his shot, build, and IQ.

Ehhh, I consider him a minus defensively due to his lack of a wingspan and thus his inability to switch onto multiple positions. I've seen his wingspan listed as being between 6'3.5 to 6'4.5. The only position you're guarding with that wingspan is PG's. And as a coach in the playoffs, I am attacking you with my dominant wingplayer every time down the stretch in a playoff game. The comparison to Eric Bledsoe is misguided. Bledsoe's wingspan is 6'8. The comparison to Kyrie is better, at 6'4 wingspan. Lillard has a 6'8 wingspan. We can draft him but I see him at best as being an average defender and someone we'd have to scheme around. So his offense has to be there.

So far one good game and one bad game. 7-24 with 2-7 from the ft line isn't going to get it done. Good offense isn't just about the ability to make shots. It's also about the ability to be judicious with your shot selection and having the capability to get to the hole at will. Haven't seen enough from Cole Anthony to judge his ability when it comes to that.
prime1time
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,260
And1: 692
Joined: Nov 02, 2016
         

Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#163 » by prime1time » Sat Nov 9, 2019 4:16 am

Shoe wrote:Cole Anthony with another double double 20 points & 10 rebounds. Meanwhile James Wiseman is a physical specimen paint protector - 17/9 with 5 blocks and a ton of altered shots. Would be the perfect front court mate for Rui. If the Wizards could grab one of these two that's a perfect quick tank.

Not sure how you can mention Cole Anthony's game without talking about the fact that he went 7-24. Also 3 assists for someone who wants to be known as both a playmaker and a scorer is kind of concerning. Especially in light of the fact that he attempted 24 shots. He has a lot more to prove before he convinces me that he's a heir apparent to elite the elite scoring small guards in our game i.e. the Kyrie's and Lillard's.
prime1time
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,260
And1: 692
Joined: Nov 02, 2016
         

Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#164 » by prime1time » Sat Nov 9, 2019 4:20 am

For people who like Cole Anthony, what's your reasoning for preferring him over a guy like Edwards? Edwards' height, size and wingspan project as a potential 1-4 switchable defender. In this NBA if you can't guard multiple positions and not be considered a liability, you are a minus defender in my book. And Edwards offensive ability is very high displaying off the dribble 3's, finishing through contact and a consistent ability to get to the rim.
Ruzious
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 38,510
And1: 5,519
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#165 » by Ruzious » Sat Nov 9, 2019 9:13 am

prime1time wrote:For people who like Cole Anthony, what's your reasoning for preferring him over a guy like Edwards? Edwards' height, size and wingspan project as a potential 1-4 switchable defender. In this NBA if you can't guard multiple positions and not be considered a liability, you are a minus defender in my book. And Edwards offensive ability is very high displaying off the dribble 3's, finishing through contact and a consistent ability to get to the rim.

I have Edwards #1. I've noticed an interesting difference of opinions on Cole's athleticism. His biggest supporters insist he's a great athlete. I don't see that. I saw a below the rim finisher who's going to have to rely on floaters in the NBA. His supporters say he can turn on that athleticism when he needs to - ala Damian Lillard. Notice he made his 3's again last night but missed his 2's. What I think he is basically is a physically tougher and more polished version of Garland with even more range on his shot.
"Look, you never know when you may need to borrow a cup of sugar, maybe some milk or a handgun" - Dan C. from Texas
Shoe
Pro Prospect
Posts: 775
And1: 636
Joined: Nov 06, 2017
 

Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#166 » by Shoe » Sat Nov 9, 2019 1:28 pm

prime1time wrote:
Shoe wrote:Cole Anthony with another double double 20 points & 10 rebounds. Meanwhile James Wiseman is a physical specimen paint protector - 17/9 with 5 blocks and a ton of altered shots. Would be the perfect front court mate for Rui. If the Wizards could grab one of these two that's a perfect quick tank.

Not sure how you can mention Cole Anthony's game without talking about the fact that he went 7-24. Also 3 assists for someone who wants to be known as both a playmaker and a scorer is kind of concerning. Especially in light of the fact that he attempted 24 shots. He has a lot more to prove before he convinces me that he's a heir apparent to elite the elite scoring small guards in our game i.e. the Kyrie's and Lillard's.


I'm not too worried about single game shooting % or assists considering I don't know how many potential assists he could've gotten or hockey assists or assists to FTs. I'm just seeing he's got 10 boards his 2nd straight game and is making plays like this which makes me think he might not end up Kyrie or Lillard but so far he looks pretty special. Also Roy Williams saying he's the best rebounding point guard he's ever seen.
Read on Twitter
Shoe
Pro Prospect
Posts: 775
And1: 636
Joined: Nov 06, 2017
 

Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#167 » by Shoe » Sat Nov 9, 2019 1:56 pm

7'1, 7'6 wingspan, 9'3 standing reach. Look at his frame and imagine what he's going to look like when's he's 23 and has 4 years of NBA nutrition and workout regimen under his belt. He actually has a post game and can hit free throws. Wizards are desperate for a franchise 5. I think he'll end up better than Ayton and Zion, and be the best high drafted big since Embiid.

Ruzious
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 38,510
And1: 5,519
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#168 » by Ruzious » Sat Nov 9, 2019 2:08 pm

Shoe wrote:7'1, 7'6 wingspan, 9'3 standing reach. Look at his frame and imagine what he's going to look like when's he's 23 and has 4 years of NBA nutrition and workout regimen under his belt. He actually has a post game and can hit free throws. Wizards are desperate for a franchise 5. I think he'll end up better than Ayton and Zion, and be the best high drafted big since Embiid.


Hopefully, the suspension situation doesn't hang over his head. I'm especially interested to see how he develops offensively. Right now, he doesn't really take advantage of his size. Hopefully he develops a more physical style as he gets stronger.
"Look, you never know when you may need to borrow a cup of sugar, maybe some milk or a handgun" - Dan C. from Texas
prime1time
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,260
And1: 692
Joined: Nov 02, 2016
         

Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#169 » by prime1time » Sat Nov 9, 2019 4:01 pm

Right now I really like Edwards. He just has that "fighting" mentality to him. But looking around the league and at the Wizards deficiencies, I just don't see how we can pass on Wiseman if we get a chance to draft him. Our defense and rebounding is so embarrassingly bad that even if we added a guy like Cole or Edwards we'd still have issues on that side of the ball.
pcbothwel
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,826
And1: 1,380
Joined: Jun 12, 2010
     

Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#170 » by pcbothwel » Sat Nov 9, 2019 4:28 pm

Ruzious wrote:
prime1time wrote:For people who like Cole Anthony, what's your reasoning for preferring him over a guy like Edwards? Edwards' height, size and wingspan project as a potential 1-4 switchable defender. In this NBA if you can't guard multiple positions and not be considered a liability, you are a minus defender in my book. And Edwards offensive ability is very high displaying off the dribble 3's, finishing through contact and a consistent ability to get to the rim.

I have Edwards #1. I've noticed an interesting difference of opinions on Cole's athleticism. His biggest supporters insist he's a great athlete. I don't see that. I saw a below the rim finisher who's going to have to rely on floaters in the NBA. His supporters say he can turn on that athleticism when he needs to - ala Damian Lillard. Notice he made his 3's again last night but missed his 2's. What I think he is basically is a physically tougher and more polished version of Garland with even more range on his shot.


I like Edwards, but lets be clear about his athleticism... he's not Wade. He is more Oladipo / Tyreke... I think he'll be a top SG in the league, but not a generational one.

Cole is FAR better an athlete than Garland. He blocks shots and dunks with authority. His gather/transition from ball handling to passing/shooting is extremely efficient. He glides over picks and controls pace, passing with accuracy and velocity with BOTH HANDS.

In the last 3 drafts, he's easily the best prospect at PG:
Cole
Ja
Melo
Garland
Trae
Maxey
SGA
Coby White

But we'll see...plenty of time left
Ruzious
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 38,510
And1: 5,519
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#171 » by Ruzious » Sat Nov 9, 2019 4:56 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
prime1time wrote:For people who like Cole Anthony, what's your reasoning for preferring him over a guy like Edwards? Edwards' height, size and wingspan project as a potential 1-4 switchable defender. In this NBA if you can't guard multiple positions and not be considered a liability, you are a minus defender in my book. And Edwards offensive ability is very high displaying off the dribble 3's, finishing through contact and a consistent ability to get to the rim.

I have Edwards #1. I've noticed an interesting difference of opinions on Cole's athleticism. His biggest supporters insist he's a great athlete. I don't see that. I saw a below the rim finisher who's going to have to rely on floaters in the NBA. His supporters say he can turn on that athleticism when he needs to - ala Damian Lillard. Notice he made his 3's again last night but missed his 2's. What I think he is basically is a physically tougher and more polished version of Garland with even more range on his shot.


I like Edwards, but lets be clear about his athleticism... he's not Wade. He is more Oladipo / Tyreke... I think he'll be a top SG in the league, but not a generational one.

Cole is FAR better an athlete than Garland. He blocks shots and dunks with authority. His gather/transition from ball handling to passing/shooting is extremely efficient. He glides over picks and controls pace, passing with accuracy and velocity with BOTH HANDS.

In the last 3 drafts, he's easily the best prospect at PG:
Cole
Ja
Melo
Garland
Trae
Maxey
SGA
Coby White

But we'll see...plenty of time left

I would say he's right up there with Ja as the best of them. I'm not willing to say - at this point - that he's EASILY the best. Btw, I think calling him right up there with Ja - not exactly a knock on him. Right? I gotta laugh - he has 1 block, and people are going nuts about it. It was a heckuva play, but there are hundreds of PG's that have made a similar play before. He is an AMAZING rebounder for a PG. Is that going to translate to the NBA? Probably only to a limited extent - because most teams have their PG's go out in transition.
"Look, you never know when you may need to borrow a cup of sugar, maybe some milk or a handgun" - Dan C. from Texas
Ruzious
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 38,510
And1: 5,519
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#172 » by Ruzious » Sat Nov 9, 2019 5:02 pm

prime1time wrote:Right now I really like Edwards. He just has that "fighting" mentality to him. But looking around the league and at the Wizards deficiencies, I just don't see how we can pass on Wiseman if we get a chance to draft him. Our defense and rebounding is so embarrassingly bad that even if we added a guy like Cole or Edwards we'd still have issues on that side of the ball.

But one Wiseman isn't going to fix our defense and rebounding. We'd need 2 Wisemen and a Wiseguy for that. If you don't have 5 guys playing team defense well, you're probably not going to be a good defensive team.
"Look, you never know when you may need to borrow a cup of sugar, maybe some milk or a handgun" - Dan C. from Texas
prime1time
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,260
And1: 692
Joined: Nov 02, 2016
         

Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#173 » by prime1time » Sat Nov 9, 2019 5:19 pm

Ruzious wrote:
prime1time wrote:Right now I really like Edwards. He just has that "fighting" mentality to him. But looking around the league and at the Wizards deficiencies, I just don't see how we can pass on Wiseman if we get a chance to draft him. Our defense and rebounding is so embarrassingly bad that even if we added a guy like Cole or Edwards we'd still have issues on that side of the ball.

But one Wiseman isn't going to fix our defense and rebounding. We'd need 2 Wisemen and a Wiseguy for that. If you don't have 5 guys playing team defense well, you're probably not going to be a good defensive team.

True, but every great defense needs a defensive anchor. Who will be our anchor? Either we draft one, we trade for one or we sign one in free agency. We need a 5 who can protect the rim and not be a liability on switches on the wing. Wiseman can be that guy.
prime1time
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,260
And1: 692
Joined: Nov 02, 2016
         

Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#174 » by prime1time » Sat Nov 9, 2019 5:27 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
prime1time wrote:For people who like Cole Anthony, what's your reasoning for preferring him over a guy like Edwards? Edwards' height, size and wingspan project as a potential 1-4 switchable defender. In this NBA if you can't guard multiple positions and not be considered a liability, you are a minus defender in my book. And Edwards offensive ability is very high displaying off the dribble 3's, finishing through contact and a consistent ability to get to the rim.

I have Edwards #1. I've noticed an interesting difference of opinions on Cole's athleticism. His biggest supporters insist he's a great athlete. I don't see that. I saw a below the rim finisher who's going to have to rely on floaters in the NBA. His supporters say he can turn on that athleticism when he needs to - ala Damian Lillard. Notice he made his 3's again last night but missed his 2's. What I think he is basically is a physically tougher and more polished version of Garland with even more range on his shot.


I like Edwards, but lets be clear about his athleticism... he's not Wade. He is more Oladipo / Tyreke... I think he'll be a top SG in the league, but not a generational one.

Cole is FAR better an athlete than Garland. He blocks shots and dunks with authority. His gather/transition from ball handling to passing/shooting is extremely efficient. He glides over picks and controls pace, passing with accuracy and velocity with BOTH HANDS.

In the last 3 drafts, he's easily the best prospect at PG:
Cole
Ja
Melo
Garland
Trae
Maxey
SGA
Coby White

But we'll see...plenty of time left

What are you basing your conclusions on? If you have youtube videos please share. This is my first time being exposed to a lot of these guys so my opinion is very fluid.
pcbothwel
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,826
And1: 1,380
Joined: Jun 12, 2010
     

Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#175 » by pcbothwel » Sat Nov 9, 2019 6:06 pm

Which conclusion? Edwards not being generational or Cole being the best PG prospect in the last few years?
Again, I like Edwards and would GLADLY have him on this team, but he's just not the #1 prospect in my eyes (Though i do have him 2 ahead of Ball and Wiseman).

That said, I dont think we get a top 5 pick. We have defensive issues, but Brooks can really coach young guys and Bryant, Rui & Brown are all skilled and work hard. That'll win enough games to pick around 6-8 assuming we dont win the ping pong balls...

So the guy Im keeping an eye on... Tyrese Maxey.
I see Chauncey Billips upside with a high floor of George Hill (People often forget how good he was in his prime).
The perfect 3rd guard for this team with a very good chance of being better than that. Such a smart player well beyond his years. His AST: TOV ratio is Monte Morris like.
- I love his abiltiy to score from everywhere. Deep 3, FT line, and probably the best short range/floater scoring guard in college. Its Curry/Irving like.
- As an athlete, he has the things I like for in a player. Hand-eye coordination and quick/active feet.

I mean, just look at that quickness and touch against MSU the other day...

Ruzious
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 38,510
And1: 5,519
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#176 » by Ruzious » Sat Nov 9, 2019 6:53 pm

Did anyone say Edwards is a generational talent? Unless someone's a Lebron James or Zion Williamson (and nobody in this class is), it's too early in the season to make a conclusion like that.
"Look, you never know when you may need to borrow a cup of sugar, maybe some milk or a handgun" - Dan C. from Texas
Shoe
Pro Prospect
Posts: 775
And1: 636
Joined: Nov 06, 2017
 

Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#177 » by Shoe » Sat Nov 9, 2019 6:53 pm

Edwards in game leaping ability is a bit concerning.

Read on Twitter


Hits the front of the rim again on an open drive
Image

Gets stuffed too easily but to be fair it was off a eurostep
Image

Either way I have him rounding out the Top 3 with Wiseman and Cole
pcbothwel
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,826
And1: 1,380
Joined: Jun 12, 2010
     

Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#178 » by pcbothwel » Sat Nov 9, 2019 7:05 pm

Ruzious wrote:Did anyone say Edwards is a generational talent? Unless someone's a Lebron James or Zion Williamson (and nobody in this class is), it's too early in the season to make a conclusion like that.


Well, people make comps to Wade and im seeing more dipo...thats all.

And as Shoe shows above, He's a big boy and still adding weight. I dont see the lateral/quick steps and think his athleticism is a bit oversold
Ruzious
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 38,510
And1: 5,519
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#179 » by Ruzious » Sat Nov 9, 2019 7:10 pm

Really Shoe? That's his first game - maybe he was a nervous 18 year old.
"Look, you never know when you may need to borrow a cup of sugar, maybe some milk or a handgun" - Dan C. from Texas
prime1time
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,260
And1: 692
Joined: Nov 02, 2016
         

Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#180 » by prime1time » Sat Nov 9, 2019 7:28 pm

Ruzious wrote:Really Shoe? That's his first game - maybe he was a nervous 18 year old.

I looked up the highlight. He was probably off balance when he went up.
;t
3:30
Doesn't excuse it though. This early in the season it's just an anomaly for me. If it continues to be a thing and it gets reflected in his finishing at the rim stats I'll start to be more concerned.

Return to Washington Wizards