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GT #18: Bullets @ Clippers 10:30 PM (NBCSW/1500 AM) [12/1/2019]

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Re: GT #18: Bullets @ Clippers 10:30 PM (NBCSW/1500 AM) [12/1/2019] 

Post#61 » by smoothSeph » Mon Dec 2, 2019 6:51 am

Illmatic12 wrote:
smoothSeph wrote:Troy's been dribbling the ball like he's scared of getting stripped. Don't remember him being this timid last season

He lacks physicality/has an aversion to contact , same issue as Otto. None of our other young players were like that . Wall, Beal, Oubre, Rui, weren't afraid of contact and it enabled them to develop an aggressive nature.

Brown's lack of physicality will hold him back from reaching his potential. Needs to improve his body significantly over the remainder of his rookie contract.

I definitely see that, he's only 20 but I think it's safe to not expect much out of him.
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Re: GT #18: Bullets @ Clippers 10:30 PM (NBCSW/1500 AM) [12/1/2019] 

Post#62 » by Illmatic12 » Mon Dec 2, 2019 6:57 am

smoothSeph wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:
smoothSeph wrote:Troy's been dribbling the ball like he's scared of getting stripped. Don't remember him being this timid last season

He lacks physicality/has an aversion to contact , same issue as Otto. None of our other young players were like that . Wall, Beal, Oubre, Rui, weren't afraid of contact and it enabled them to develop an aggressive nature.

Brown's lack of physicality will hold him back from reaching his potential. Needs to improve his body significantly over the remainder of his rookie contract.

I definitely see that, he's only 20 but I think it's safe to not expect much out of him.

He will have to break out as a shooter like Otto did . Other than improving his physicality, shooting ability is the main area that will open up his game.

I think he still has real potential , but you can't guarantee that someone will develop shooting touch.. some guys do and some guys don't
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Re: GT #18: Bullets @ Clippers 10:30 PM (NBCSW/1500 AM) [12/1/2019] 

Post#63 » by Illmatic12 » Mon Dec 2, 2019 7:58 am






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Re: GT #18: Bullets @ Clippers 10:30 PM (NBCSW/1500 AM) [12/1/2019] 

Post#64 » by montestewart » Mon Dec 2, 2019 3:24 pm

According to the box score, the Wizards played the second best team in the west dead even on their home court. Yay!

I guess I'm glad I missed that game. Did Hachimura rack up points against the bench with the Wizards far behind, or was that a breakout game even with the beatdown?

PS: The Wizards have now played more games than the Nuggets. Nate made a call and it's all straightened out.
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Re: GT #18: Bullets @ Clippers 10:30 PM (NBCSW/1500 AM) [12/1/2019] 

Post#65 » by Ruzious » Mon Dec 2, 2019 6:03 pm

montestewart wrote:According to the box score, the Wizards played the second best team in the west dead even on their home court. Yay!

I guess I'm glad I missed that game. Did Hachimura rack up points against the bench with the Wizards far behind, or was that a breakout game even with the beatdown?

PS: The Wizards have now played more games than the Nuggets. Nate made a call and it's all straightened out.

Dead even in the second half. The first half... well, that was just practice. I'm also glad to have missed it.
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Re: GT #18: Bullets @ Clippers 10:30 PM (NBCSW/1500 AM) [12/1/2019] 

Post#66 » by nate33 » Mon Dec 2, 2019 6:43 pm

I watched most of the first half.

It was weird. I thought the team was playing pretty well and even defending reasonably well, but the Clippers just kept pulling ahead on the scoreboard. It hurt that Thomas Bryant had an awful night. He kept settling for jumpers and missed nearly all of them. And Harrell was just outworking him on the glass.
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Re: GT #18: Bullets @ Clippers 10:30 PM (NBCSW/1500 AM) [12/1/2019] 

Post#67 » by payitforward » Mon Dec 2, 2019 9:49 pm

That was a tough road trip, & I can't imagine anyone projected that we'd win yesterday.

Still, nice to see a good game from Rui -- especially making 3-pointers.
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Re: GT #18: Bullets @ Clippers 10:30 PM (NBCSW/1500 AM) [12/1/2019] 

Post#68 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Tue Dec 3, 2019 1:19 am

Saw that Scott Brooks is talking about getting serious about defense. Yeah right. He’s hinting at dropping Brown from the rotation. Sure, that’ll do it.

Hmm. How about benching the very worst defensive player in the league? Maybe? Possibly?

Nah. I’m sure IT will keep getting a pass.
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Re: GT #18: Bullets @ Clippers 10:30 PM (NBCSW/1500 AM) [12/1/2019] 

Post#69 » by payitforward » Tue Dec 3, 2019 3:31 am

TheBabyMaker wrote:This team is so weak. Even when they miss we can't get a **** defense rebound. Pretty pathetic.

It's possible to get a defensive rebound when you're opponent missses a shot. Only then.

The Clippers missed 42 shots last night. We got 31 defensive rebounds. 74%
The Wizards missed 55 shots. The Clippers got 42 defensive rebounds. 76%

Is that what you mean by "can't get a **** defense rebound. Pretty pathetic." -- ?

How about on the offensive end of the court?

We got 12 offensive rebounds on our 55 misses. 22%
The Clippers got 10 offensive boards on their 42 misses: 24%

Had we gotten 1 more defensive rebound, we would have done as good a job on the defensive glass as they did. Had we gotten 1 more offensive board, we'd have done as good a job on the offensive glass as they did.

Had we turned those 2 extra boards into points at the rate that the Clips turned possessions into points, we would have scored an extra 3+ points. Only thing is... we lost by 25 points.

I think it's fair to conclude that rebounding was not our problem. We could have rebounded a little better, sure. But even had we rebounded a fair amount better, we'd have had zero chance to win the game.

I think it would be fair to conclude, instead, that our problem was letting them post a .628 efg% while putting them on the line 40 times.
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Re: GT #18: Bullets @ Clippers 10:30 PM (NBCSW/1500 AM) [12/1/2019] 

Post#70 » by payitforward » Tue Dec 3, 2019 3:40 am

smoothSeph wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:
smoothSeph wrote:Troy's been dribbling the ball like he's scared of getting stripped. Don't remember him being this timid last season

He lacks physicality/has an aversion to contact , same issue as Otto. None of our other young players were like that . Wall, Beal, Oubre, Rui, weren't afraid of contact and it enabled them to develop an aggressive nature.

Brown's lack of physicality will hold him back from reaching his potential. Needs to improve his body significantly over the remainder of his rookie contract.

I definitely see that, he's only 20 but I think it's safe to not expect much out of him.

From what I see this issue is invented out of whole cloth.

Troy is getting 67% more rebounds than an average wing. Is that because he's timid? Scared? Weak? Lacks physicality?
Troy is getting 50% more steals than an average wing. How about that -- caused by being timid? By lacking physicality?

In short, this is a load. No surprise since it's also a load about Otto Porter. He too was a strong rebounder. Until his body gave out.
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Re: GT #18: Bullets @ Clippers 10:30 PM (NBCSW/1500 AM) [12/1/2019] 

Post#71 » by payitforward » Tue Dec 3, 2019 3:45 am

Not to make a big deal out of this comparison, since it doesn't have any particular long term meaning, but Troy Brown has played much much much better than Rui Hachimura this season. A zillion times better.

Oh, & he's most of a year younger than Rui as well.
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Re: GT #18: Bullets @ Clippers 10:30 PM (NBCSW/1500 AM) [12/1/2019] 

Post#72 » by trast66 » Tue Dec 3, 2019 5:30 am

long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:Saw that Scott Brooks is talking about getting serious about defense. Yeah right. He’s hinting at dropping Brown from the rotation. Sure, that’ll do it.

Hmm. How about benching the very worst defensive player in the league? Maybe? Possibly?

Nah. I’m sure IT will keep getting a pass.


Troy not issue with defense, he just can’t shoot. IT starting reminds me of Brooks playing Kendrick Perkins in OKC, only in his mind does this make sense. IT can hoist shots and hide on D in second units. Bonga will be learning a new language in China next year.

Would love to hear of Thomas Bryant exploits in LA gentleman’s clubs. Hope he didn’t hang with Dwight.
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Re: GT #18: Bullets @ Clippers 10:30 PM (NBCSW/1500 AM) [12/1/2019] 

Post#73 » by Dat2U » Tue Dec 3, 2019 12:47 pm

long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:Saw that Scott Brooks is talking about getting serious about defense. Yeah right. He’s hinting at dropping Brown from the rotation. Sure, that’ll do it.

Hmm. How about benching the very worst defensive player in the league? Maybe? Possibly?

Nah. I’m sure IT will keep getting a pass.


Crazy thing is Brown has the best physical tools on the roster to be a solid defender.

Everyone wants to see him at PG.

a. That's not happening outside of injury because he doesn't fit the aggressive, attacking PGs Brooks prefers like Ish Smith and Ty Lawson. Brooks did everything to avoid playing Sato who Brown most closely resembles at the moment (minus the J)

b. I don't think Brown's handle is tight enough to be a lead ballhandler. I think he can get pressured and get stripped pretty easily. He's suited for more of a secondary ballhandling role but he needs a jump shot to be useful in a secondary role.
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Re: GT #18: Bullets @ Clippers 10:30 PM (NBCSW/1500 AM) [12/1/2019] 

Post#74 » by payitforward » Tue Dec 3, 2019 2:11 pm

trast66 wrote:Troy not issue with defense, he just can’t shoot. IT starting reminds me of Brooks playing Kendrick Perkins in OKC, only in his mind does this make sense. IT can hoist shots and hide on D in second units. Bonga will be learning a new language in China next year.

Why do you say that?

In fairness, I was unable to watch the game. But, Bonga played 19 minutes: he went 3-4, made his only FT, grabbed 2 offensive boards & a defensive one, recorded a steal, no TOs & 3 assists. He did commit 4 fouls, but even so -- that looks like a pretty good line.

What am I missing?
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Re: GT #18: Bullets @ Clippers 10:30 PM (NBCSW/1500 AM) [12/1/2019] 

Post#75 » by trast66 » Tue Dec 3, 2019 2:38 pm

payitforward wrote:
trast66 wrote:Troy not issue with defense, he just can’t shoot. IT starting reminds me of Brooks playing Kendrick Perkins in OKC, only in his mind does this make sense. IT can hoist shots and hide on D in second units. Bonga will be learning a new language in China next year.

Why do you say that?

In fairness, I was unable to watch the game. But, Bonga played 19 minutes: he went 3-4, made his only FT, grabbed 2 offensive boards & a defensive one, recorded a steal, no TOs & 3 assists. He did commit 4 fouls, but even so -- that looks like a pretty good line.

What am I missing?


Yeah, I'm being too rough on the youngster. With CJ down maybe Isaac can get back into rotation consistently. And if he went overseas it would be to Germany not China.
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Re: GT #18: Bullets @ Clippers 10:30 PM (NBCSW/1500 AM) [12/1/2019] 

Post#76 » by nate33 » Tue Dec 3, 2019 2:44 pm

payitforward wrote:
smoothSeph wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:He lacks physicality/has an aversion to contact , same issue as Otto. None of our other young players were like that . Wall, Beal, Oubre, Rui, weren't afraid of contact and it enabled them to develop an aggressive nature.

Brown's lack of physicality will hold him back from reaching his potential. Needs to improve his body significantly over the remainder of his rookie contract.

I definitely see that, he's only 20 but I think it's safe to not expect much out of him.

From what I see this issue is invented out of whole cloth.

Troy is getting 67% more rebounds than an average wing. Is that because he's timid? Scared? Weak? Lacks physicality?
Troy is getting 50% more steals than an average wing. How about that -- caused by being timid? By lacking physicality?

In short, this is a load. No surprise since it's also a load about Otto Porter. He too was a strong rebounder. Until his body gave out.

Agreed. Brown isn't afraid of contact if his rebounds, deflections and steals are any guide. The guy is the first on the team to enter a scrum and come up with a loose ball.

Where he does deserve some criticism is his FTA rate. The guy is averaging just 1.7 FTA's per 100 possessions. That's probably what Illmatic12 is referring to when he says "aversion to contact". Brown needs to jump into players as he finishes rather than fading away. Rui has the same problem. In both cases, I don't think it's a lack of physicality. It's a lack of technique and experience.
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Re: GT #18: Bullets @ Clippers 10:30 PM (NBCSW/1500 AM) [12/1/2019] 

Post#77 » by nate33 » Tue Dec 3, 2019 3:00 pm

payitforward wrote:Not to make a big deal out of this comparison, since it doesn't have any particular long term meaning, but Troy Brown has played much much much better than Rui Hachimura this season. A zillion times better.


That's a ridiculous take.

Rui is scoring 22.5 points (per 100 possessions) on a TS% of .529 versus Brown's 15.5 points on a TS% of .494. That's a big gap in scoring impact and defensive attention drawn. Guys are ignoring Brown out there, but they have to respect Hachimura's midrange shot at least.

Your usual retort is to argue about possessions, but Brown has no real advantage there either. He gets 1.3 more steals per 100 possessions than Hachimura, but he gives them right back by committing 1.1 more turnovers (despite a lower usage). Brown has a modest 1.4 rebound edge over Hachimura, but that doesn't make up for the massive scoring, efficiency and gravity discrepancy. Both have been dreadful on defense.

You probably want to argue that Hachimura should be compared to other power forwards while Brown is compared to other small forward, and that, Brown is performing better relative to his position than Hachimura is. That may well be the case, but I think that analysis should factor that Brown isn't really doing the primary thing you need from a small forward: floor spacing. Practically speaking, what makes him any more of a "small forward" than Hachimura?

I could understand someone arguing that Brown hasn't been any worse than Hachimura, or maybe even that he has been slightly better than Hachimura, but to say he's been "a zillion times better" is absurd.
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Re: GT #18: Bullets @ Clippers 10:30 PM (NBCSW/1500 AM) [12/1/2019] 

Post#78 » by queridiculo » Tue Dec 3, 2019 5:50 pm

Brooks is the master of putting players in position to fail and then doubling down on his stupidity by breaking players spirits when he eventually cuts their minutes.

He won't do that with veterans never mind you, they can fail and come up short in the effort department without fear of reprisal.

Pigeon holing Brown as a small forward, and playing him off the ball in a roll he's not cut out for is a sure fire way to breaking his confidence.

Sheppard deserves a healthy dose of blame here.

Not expecting this team to win a heap of games is one thing, but managing to spend $17 million in player salaries without adding a replacement level starter to the roster is Erniesque.

The trio of Miles, Smith and Thomas is predictably awful, and now we have Brooks playing tough cop, a role clearly he's clearly not cut out for.
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Re: GT #18: Bullets @ Clippers 10:30 PM (NBCSW/1500 AM) [12/1/2019] 

Post#79 » by nate33 » Tue Dec 3, 2019 6:04 pm

queridiculo wrote:Brooks is the master of putting players in position to fail and then doubling down on his stupidity by breaking players spirits when he eventually cuts their minutes.

He won't do that with veterans never mind you, they can fail and come up short in the effort department without fear of reprisal.

Pigeon holing Brown as a small forward, and playing him off the ball in a roll he's not cut out for is a sure fire way to breaking his confidence.

Sheppard deserves a healthy dose of blame here.

Not expecting this team to win a heap of games is one thing, but managing to spend $17 million in player salaries without adding a replacement level starter to the roster is Erniesque.

The trio of Miles, Smith and Thomas is predictably awful, and now we have Brooks playing tough cop, a role clearly he's clearly not cut out for.

I don't think Brooks is doing anything wrong. Brown has not been playing well, particularly on defense. While I get the argument that Brown's offensive skill set aren't ideal for a catch-and-shoot 3&D roll, Brown still should be playing better of defense. I've got no problems with him disciplining Brown with playing time - particularly if Bonga is the guy getting minutes in his place.

I think Brooks has been pretty consistent with all of his young players. He yanks Bryant, Wagner, Bonga and Hachimura for gross inattention to detail as well.

I agree that there's a double standard with respect to Isaiah. I can only surmise that they're trying to prop up Isaiah in order to trade him. I can see no other reason why he starts over Ish.
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Re: GT #18: Bullets @ Clippers 10:30 PM (NBCSW/1500 AM) [12/1/2019] 

Post#80 » by Illmatic12 » Tue Dec 3, 2019 6:26 pm

payitforward wrote:
smoothSeph wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:He lacks physicality/has an aversion to contact , same issue as Otto. None of our other young players were like that . Wall, Beal, Oubre, Rui, weren't afraid of contact and it enabled them to develop an aggressive nature.

Brown's lack of physicality will hold him back from reaching his potential. Needs to improve his body significantly over the remainder of his rookie contract.

I definitely see that, he's only 20 but I think it's safe to not expect much out of him.

From what I see this issue is invented out of whole cloth.

Troy is getting 67% more rebounds than an average wing. Is that because he's timid? Scared? Weak? Lacks physicality?
Troy is getting 50% more steals than an average wing. How about that -- caused by being timid? By lacking physicality?

In short, this is a load. No surprise since it's also a load about Otto Porter. He too was a strong rebounder. Until his body gave out.

Brown, like Otto, turns down opportunities to attack aggressively because he doesn’t like to invite contact.

He also complains for calls an awful lot.. after watching him closely, I’m not a fan of how he seems to think he’s entitled to FTs every time he throws up some weak attempt. He has to learn how to play through the contact or he will never actually improve.

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