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Political Roundtable Part XXVII

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1101 » by Pointgod » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:30 pm

pancakes3 wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:i got so riled up i forgot why i signed on.

count me +1 with TGW on this bs:

::politico tweet::


I don’t see any issue here. People are allowed to give their opinions. What’s the difference between him and Michael Moore saying that Bernie has the best chance to win. I can make a list of a lot of reasons why Bernie would struggle in the general, just like you could make the same list for any of the candidates. At the end of the day people are putting in their best guess on what could happen. No one really knows for sure.


well, a) messina giving an opinion is different than you or me giving an opinion and b) it's perpetuating a narrative that's framed in a way that already concedes false talking points to Trump.

"socialism" is already a murky definition that doesn't need moderate dems help in skewing and preconceived notions of what it entails. yeah Bernie self-identifies as a socialist but he's still part of the dem party, and is leading the way on a lot of dem platforms.

analysis that says:

[Trump] can say, ‘I’m a business guy, the economy’s good and this guy’s a socialist.’ I think that contrast for Trump is likely one that he’d be excited about in a way that he wouldn’t be as excited about Biden or potentially Mayor Pete or some of the more Midwestern moderate candidates.”


a) doesn't address what policies are at issue
b) reinforces that socialist policies are by definition bad for the economy
b) Biden, Pete, and Klobuchar are somehow better for the economy than Sanders
c) there's a divide between "socialist" values and "dem" values.

it's coded bias, and i don't like how it's able to have a lot of dems (like you, presumably) nod along. it's flimsy analysis, but easily digestible. m4a is just a natural extension of obamacare. putting checks on the rich is a long time dem position. these are necessary shifts in the overton window to address real problems in American society like a broken health care system and increased wealth disparity. the '50s notion of "capitalism good, communism bad" is an outdated state of mind. it's a method of governing from 70 years ago. America's changed, the world's changed.

maybe it's pragmatic advice behind closed doors in a real politik, brass tacks sort of way (i'd argue that it's still intellectually lazy) but it makes for pretty poor news commentary.


I read the article and it seems like a milqetoast analysis about how Trump would run against Bernie Sanders in the general election. You could do this kind of analysis for every candidate and the timing makes sense since Bernie is in the lead in Iowa and New Hampshire. The majority of Democratic voters would have zero idea who the hell Jim Messina is. This isn’t anyone tipping the scales. If you kept every person who’s worked on a political campaign from commenting on the primary you’d exclude a lot of people.

And let’s be honest most people don’t pay enough attention to politics to understand the difference between Democratic Socialism and Authoritarian Socialism. You and I know the difference but the whole socialism attack works because a lot of people are uninformed and intellectually lazy. Sanders hasn’t really been tested yet and the whole socialism boogie man is an effective foil. I don’t see this election being won on policy. Look at the UK, labor was decimated and this is in a country that Id argue is more favourable to socialist policies.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1102 » by popper » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:09 am

I don’t post anymore because my opinions trigger a great deal of hate, vitriol and animosity. Life is too short. The last thing I want to do is crash the progressive groupthink and ruin your experience on the thread. I just hope there is one conservative in your life that you respect enough to have an honest and open dialogue with. Otherwise I worry that you’ll continue to incubate hatred in your hearts for those with a different political opinion. That’s not healthy.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1103 » by Wizardspride » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:14 am

popper wrote:I don’t post anymore because my opinions trigger a great deal of hate, vitriol and animosity. Life is too short. The last thing I want to do is crash the progressive groupthink and ruin your experience on the thread. I just hope there is one conservative in your life that you respect enough to have an honest and open dialogue with. Otherwise I worry that you’ll continue to incubate hatred in your hearts for those with a different political opinion. That’s not healthy.

I have no problem having an open dialogue with a conservative.

Now with that being said, if you're a Trump supporting conservative it'll probably be a short conversation.... :wink:
McCabe explains that Trump believed Putin over US intel about NK missiles: "Intel officials [told Trump his position] was not consistent with any of the intel our govt possesses. To which POTUS replied, 'I don't care. I believe Putin.'"
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1104 » by Zonkerbl » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:39 am

popper wrote:I don’t post anymore because my opinions trigger a great deal of hate, vitriol and animosity. Life is too short. The last thing I want to do is crash the progressive groupthink and ruin your experience on the thread. I just hope there is one conservative in your life that you respect enough to have an honest and open dialogue with. Otherwise I worry that you’ll continue to incubate hatred in your hearts for those with a different political opinion. That’s not healthy.

#votesocialist
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1105 » by pancakes3 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:49 am

you can miss me with the "i'm taking the high road because you libs get triggered too easily" talk.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1106 » by Pointgod » Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:39 am

popper wrote:I don’t post anymore because my opinions trigger a great deal of hate, vitriol and animosity. Life is too short. The last thing I want to do is crash the progressive groupthink and ruin your experience on the thread. I just hope there is one conservative in your life that you respect enough to have an honest and open dialogue with. Otherwise I worry that you’ll continue to incubate hatred in your hearts for those with a different political opinion. That’s not healthy.


Ladies and gentlemen. The perfect example of Conservative projection. Neat.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1107 » by Ruzious » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:12 am

Wizardspride wrote:
popper wrote:I don’t post anymore because my opinions trigger a great deal of hate, vitriol and animosity. Life is too short. The last thing I want to do is crash the progressive groupthink and ruin your experience on the thread. I just hope there is one conservative in your life that you respect enough to have an honest and open dialogue with. Otherwise I worry that you’ll continue to incubate hatred in your hearts for those with a different political opinion. That’s not healthy.

I have no problem having an open dialogue with a conservative.

Now with that being said, if you're a Trump supporting conservative it'll probably be a short conversation.... :wink:

How many true conservatives are left in the US? Maybe a handful in Congress?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1108 » by gtn130 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:50 pm

popper wrote:I don’t post anymore because my opinions trigger a great deal of hate, vitriol and animosity. Life is too short. The last thing I want to do is crash the progressive groupthink and ruin your experience on the thread. I just hope there is one conservative in your life that you respect enough to have an honest and open dialogue with. Otherwise I worry that you’ll continue to incubate hatred in your hearts for those with a different political opinion. That’s not healthy.


Enjoy your safe space.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1109 » by Sedale Threatt » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:14 pm

Ruzious wrote:
doclinkin wrote:I’ve had my mind changed by discussion on this board. Personally. I’ve nodded and ceded a point. I think thoughtful conservatives are in full retreat because the guy at the top is unsupportable. They are ‘winning’ and it tastes bad. And so many of their real values have been sold out. So we no longer have them in this thread.

But I still think there’s middle ground to be had. Even between a staunch scab-knuckled lefty like me and I dunno popper or nate or whomever.

Sure, I think to some extent a message board for sports teams will attract diehards who’d like to compete in an arena of ideas. And exceedingly bright people commonly have no use for pointless pursuits like sports.

For those of us who are Wizards fans we could easily cede that other teams are in fact better than ours (maybe not the Hawks but they have cap room and picks so maybe a better future). I’d hear the argument.

I agree that da1 is likely here just for negative attention like SD20. But I do miss that give and take from back in the day. I’ve been here since Bush was pissing people off. Steered clear of posting in the thread but liked reading pineapplehead and various iterations of WizKev volleying with greendale and Nate etc.

I’d agree discourse in the country as a whole has rotted and become toxic. But I won’t give up hope that it can be rebuilt.

I think common ground can be found in baselines and pragmatic approaches and common sense. I think actual actual conservatives and progressives can have a discussion. Work within the mission statement of the preamble to the constitution and find some common priorities. I just feel like we’ve been maneuvered, all of us, into fixating in our conflict instead of recognizing that we’re all being dxcked over by entities too big to effectively fight. Or even really perceive.

I dunno. I’m personally not giving up on the whole damn experiment. I don’t know how to fix it. But hell. I’d vote for I dunno, even a Colin Powell. A general Wesley whatshisface. Pick one. If it meant aborting the deranged parasite that currently holds the office. If we had any principled and mature leadership out there. I’d fight them where I disagreed. But wouldn’t be ashamed of how stupid my countrymen can be.

This election: I think Warren is the best of the bunch. Would like a Warren/Booker inauguration. But if Biden was all we got, whatever, I’d take him. Then push hard to the Left to try to force him to listen. Bernie, I think would be backed into corners and find it tough to maneuver. But if we had Bernie and a green wave of voters then a good lot of Good could be done. But this. This is dangerous. We all have got to do better than this.

I'm done if Trump gets re-elected. Looking back, I think the end was there when McConnell bragged - "One of my proudest moments was when I looked at Barack Obama in the eye and I said, 'Mr. President, you will not fill the Supreme Court vacancy.'" And that "Biden Rule" reasoning was complete BS. There was no Biden Rule, and even if there was - it obviously didn't overrule The Constitution which requires Congress to move on replacing SC Justices in a timely manner. Refusing to even have a discussion for 11 months was clearly against The Constitution - and this was after Obama chose a candidate that Republicans respected, so it was just about refusing to accept anything Obama chose - really the ultimate disrespect - and it was always about that during Obama's term.


Spot f'ing on. Conservatives shedding crocodile tears about how mean people are to them is hilarious. It would be one thing if we only had their crappy values and policies to deal with. But when you add the straight-up rat f*ckery like this -- not to mention gerrymandering, voter suppression, loading up the judiciary with unqualified zealots, etc etc etc -- that people like McConnell and Newt Gingrich have used to help turn politics into bloodsport, all culminating in their election and idolization of President Biff Tannen, well, sorry guys, I no longer have any desire to meet you half way or turn the other cheek or any other empty platitude. You bought your ticket, now take you can take your ride.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1110 » by pancakes3 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:35 pm

why are yall so mad? why can't we have reasoned and balanced discourse over voter suppression, politicizing SCOTUS, implementing fearmongering immigration policies, denying climate change, deregulation of industries that have proven time and time again that they need to be regulated, etc?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1111 » by gtn130 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:15 pm

pancakes3 wrote:why are yall so mad? why can't we have reasoned and balanced discourse over voter suppression, politicizing SCOTUS, implementing fearmongering immigration policies, denying climate change, deregulation of industries that have proven time and time again that they need to be regulated, etc?


In before thread derails over baby murder
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1112 » by Wizardspride » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:04 am

Read on Twitter
?s=19


Read on Twitter
?s=19
McCabe explains that Trump believed Putin over US intel about NK missiles: "Intel officials [told Trump his position] was not consistent with any of the intel our govt possesses. To which POTUS replied, 'I don't care. I believe Putin.'"
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1113 » by Wizardspride » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:09 am

Read on Twitter
?s=19



Read on Twitter
?s=19
McCabe explains that Trump believed Putin over US intel about NK missiles: "Intel officials [told Trump his position] was not consistent with any of the intel our govt possesses. To which POTUS replied, 'I don't care. I believe Putin.'"
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1114 » by queridiculo » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:03 pm

Big up to the law and order crowd.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/former-mrs-florida-and-conservative-pundit-gets-prison-sentence-for-stealing-mothers-social-security-checks

Karyn Turk, the 2016 Mrs. Florida winner and right-wing commentator, has been given a one-month prison sentence after pleading guilty to stealing $219,000 in Social Security checks from her recently deceased mother.

Turk was sued by her mother's former nursing home for failing to pay nursing home bills. Instead, she used the money to pay for shopping expenses, expensive dinners, and a nanny for her children, according to the Palm Beach Post.

U.S. magistrate Bruce Reinhart additionally sentenced Turk to 100 hours of community service to "remind her of the time she never spent with her mother."


Now we just need somebody to plant a "cell phone" on her so she can do some real time.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1115 » by daSwami » Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:00 pm

Warren lost my support last night. She's slimy. I'm hoping for a Bernie/Tulsi ticket at this point tbh.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1116 » by pancakes3 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:27 pm

if you're talking about the "women can't win [against trump]" story, i agree that warren planting that story is indeed slimy, and is yet another political miscalculation by her. she's just not good at this stuff. see DNA test; drinking a beer w her husband; etc.

it's all very hot-sauce-in-her-purse-y.

but she also came out w a plan to eliminate student debt so... it seems petty to dismiss her outright for being a bumbling dork. like, yeah we all hate that kid in elementary school who reminds the teacher that she didn't assign us hw, but also, does being unlikeable disqualify her from the presidency? i guess in a democracy, by definition, yes, but it still seems petty.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1117 » by daSwami » Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:12 pm

pancakes3 wrote:if you're talking about the "women can't win [against trump]" story, i agree that warren planting that story is indeed slimy, and is yet another political miscalculation by her. she's just not good at this stuff. see DNA test; drinking a beer w her husband; etc.

it's all very hot-sauce-in-her-purse-y.

but she also came out w a plan to eliminate student debt so... it seems petty to dismiss her outright for being a bumbling dork. like, yeah we all hate that kid in elementary school who reminds the teacher that she didn't assign us hw, but also, does being unlikeable disqualify her from the presidency? i guess in a democracy, by definition, yes, but it still seems petty.


She's still get my vote over Trump, w/o question. But I will vote for Sanders in the primary. Call me petty if you like, but that seems like projection to me, which is also petty.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1118 » by pancakes3 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:16 pm

daSwami wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:if you're talking about the "women can't win [against trump]" story, i agree that warren planting that story is indeed slimy, and is yet another political miscalculation by her. she's just not good at this stuff. see DNA test; drinking a beer w her husband; etc.

it's all very hot-sauce-in-her-purse-y.

but she also came out w a plan to eliminate student debt so... it seems petty to dismiss her outright for being a bumbling dork. like, yeah we all hate that kid in elementary school who reminds the teacher that she didn't assign us hw, but also, does being unlikeable disqualify her from the presidency? i guess in a democracy, by definition, yes, but it still seems petty.


She's still get my vote over Trump, w/o question. But I will vote for Sanders in the primary. Call me petty if you like, but that seems like projection to me, which is also petty.


i wasn't trying to call you out specifically for being petty. i'm wrestling with the decision of supporting Warren myself. i'm just settling in at the level where I'm not ready to say she's lost my support completely.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1119 » by I_Like_Dirt » Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:17 pm

daSwami wrote:She's still get my vote over Trump, w/o question. But I will vote for Sanders in the primary. Call me petty if you like, but that seems like projection to me, which is also petty.


I have no clue what is or isn't petty anymore. I had made an earlier post to pancakes about this very thing, to be honest. It's not about right or wrong but the discerning fact between candidates often comes down to things other than actual policies, and to be honest, I actually feel that Warren and Yang are probably suffering the most from that right now (Booker, too, before he dropped out). It doesn't make anyone right or wrong. People are going to decide as best as they can based on what they know and how they feel. It's definitely worthwhile paying attention to it, though.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVII 

Post#1120 » by Ruzious » Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:45 pm

daSwami wrote:Warren lost my support last night. She's slimy. I'm hoping for a Bernie/Tulsi ticket at this point tbh.

It's looking less likely that Warren and Bernie will team up to so that one can beat Biden.

This is more religion than politics, but is this what Christians want to stand for - or is it just an isolated instance in KY? https://www.yahoo.com/gma/christian-school-expels-girl-over-rainbow-shirt-birthday-125300756--abc-news-topstories.html
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