Ted's been approved, it's official!

[AceDegenerate]

There is no magic wand to wave to make a Champion in the NBA. You get LUCKY or you are the LAKERS or CELTICS.

Those are the ONLY 2 organizations that have been shown to be successful through the entire history of the league.

Others way to win? You get LUCKY and Draft the RIGHT player at the RIGHT time. Why does everyone here think they have the magic solution to building a champion? How many GM's over the past 30 years can even lay claim to building a CHAMPION in this league? I know Jerry Krause for one built a 6-Time Champion apparently, and where is he working today? Mitch Kupchak was just about out of a job until he was gifted Pau Gasol.

Anyone at all thinking they have a better solution than I do for building a champion is seriously kidding themself.

[Hoopalotta]

People who are realistically thinking this team can compete for a championship with or without Arenas are dreaming anyway. John Wall has not even stepped foot on an NBA floor, he's far from the athlete and having the body that LeBron James came into the league with, so with our medical staff he may be just as prone to serious injury as every player before him.

I'm more concerned with the Wizards putting out the absolute best lineup to compete on a night to night basis starting in Game 1 of the regular season THIS year. I've yet to see a single trade involving Arenas that makes the team better RIGHT NOW. Haven't we shed enough salary? Hasn't the team given up enough talent (that has taken many years to accumulate mind you, Tyrone Nesby starting @ SF is not that far off).

All the rest of you with you championship pipe dreams can keep dreaming. Very few teams win championships in the NBA, and I was more than pleased with the Wizards as a competitive playoff team who if things fell their way, may have sneaked their way into the Finals any one of the years they made the playoffs.

Too many are concerned with building the next Dynasty, when it's not going to happen. The Celtics, Lakers, Bulls, etc. have that market cornered in this league.

This has got to be the single worst team building philosophy I've ever seen rationally articulated around here. While others might inadvertently suggest tactical moves that move us in this direction, you have painted a top down, big picture "let's settle for mediocrity from the outset" plan while fully understanding the repercussions.

It's complete defeatism and sounds like what Susan O'Malley thought privately, but never outright said.

[AceDegenerate]

^- See here we go again with this holier than thou crap. Who says you have the answer for how to build a team smart guy? You are posting on this forum the same as me.

[AceDegenerate]

You do realize this is a business right? These owners are in the business of Entertainment. There is many an owner in this league that would trade all the championships in the world for a profitable team. You people with your championship dreams are the joke. It made sense as a dying old man's wish, but now it's just ridiculous. Go talk all this Washington Wizard NBA Champion talk on the General Board and see how serious anybody takes you.

[Hoopalotta]

^- See here we go again with this holier than thou crap. Who says you have the answer for how to build a team smart guy? You are posting on this forum the same as me.

I respect that you're loyal to Gil like that, but I have nothing more to add to what I already laid out there. Them's is the breaks.

[barelyawake]

Hoops, if you started this argument claiming I said something I never said and haven't let-up off the gas. That last post was cute and all, but I wouldn't have to keep claiming "I never said that," if you would have listened the first time I told you.

I'll explain to you the ways we could get an allstar big better than Blatche:

1) Draft. Obviously, the higher the pick the greater the chances (but, not in all drafts). In this draft, for instance, Cousins could go fourth. Btw, this draft being deep was predictable (and I predicted it last year). You need to pick good years to tank. It's not all about number one.

2) Trade. We don't have the assets to trade. We need more assets of value if we want to go this route -- the KG for Jefferson et al route. Thus, we need to draft well (and usually the higher the better) in order to get said assets.

3) Cap. We don't have the assets to sell the idea to a free agent that we have a bright future in DC. Again, the only way to get said assets is through the draft.

So, as I said several friggin times now, we need more assets to get an allstar big better than Blatche. That does not mean we need to dump Blatche, nor does it mean we need to get the top pick. In fact, it probably means dumping Arenas would be best, so we can tank a couple years.

Is that clear enough for you? Or should I tell you a fifth time? While we are at it, you want to explain to me why you started this argument for no reason with a strawman and a swipe at me? Heat getting to you? I'm sunburned as hell on the beach. What's your excuse?

[AceDegenerate]

^- See here we go again with this holier than thou crap. Who says you have the answer for how to build a team smart guy? You are posting on this forum the same as me.

I respect that you're loyal to Gil like that, but I have nothing more to add to what I already laid out there. Them's is the breaks.

You had nothing to add in the first place.

[Hoopalotta]

Fair enough, dude.

Hoops, if you started this argument claiming I said something I never said and haven't let-up off the gas. That last post was cute and all, but I wouldn't have to keep claiming "I never said that," if you would have listened the first time I told you.

Any assumptions I made were just in trying to decipher the actual steps that would be taken to enact what I figured you were getting at. So, for example, I don't see how we'd get a top pick without moving Blatche (and Gil, though that's another story).

1) Draft. Obviously, the higher the pick the greater the chances (but, not in all drafts). In this draft, for instance, Cousins could go fourth. Btw, this draft being deep was predictable (and I predicted it last year). You need to pick good years to tank. It's not all about number one.

2) Trade. We don't have the assets to trade. We need more assets of value if we want to go this route -- the KG for Jefferson et al route. Thus, we need to draft well (and usually the higher the better) in order to get said assets.

3) Cap. We don't have the assets to sell the idea to a free agent that we have a bright future in DC. Again, the only way to get said assets is through the draft.

Those are all solid basic parameters and really not different from what I would suggest. For example, I'm actually a lot closer to your tank plan than about 80% of this board, it's just that I don't think we can execute it with the way the pylons are laid out.

So, as I said several friggin times now, we need more assets to get an allstar big better than Blatche. That does not mean we need to dump Blatche, nor does it mean we need to get the top pick. In fact, it probably means dumping Arenas would be best, so we can tank a couple years.

Honestly, again, I just don't think we're going to get a better scoring big than Blatche. I also don't think there's a lot of teams that rely on a go to bigman for crunch time scoring anyway. Josh Howard was the second option on a finals team and has been known for first quarter scoring outbursts throughout his career (OK, not a winner, I admit). Suffice to say I'd love to get what I would consider a defensive "superstar" big and I'm just seeing that as more of the key to our success.

By all means, if we put together an asset base to trade for a big who can outshine Dray (or Gasol), I'm not going to picket the arena to stop it from happening. Bottom line, I don't think we can get a superstar big and would be well pleased with a defender.

We probably won't make any real advances beyond that point from my end by going over it further.

Is that clear enough for you? Or should I tell you a fifth time? While we are at it, you want to explain to me why you started this argument for no reason with a strawman and a swipe at me? Heat getting to you? I'm sunburned as hell on the beach. What's your excuse?

I just think you wave away the practicals too often while seemingly proposing an inflexible "we need to get an unattainable player" model and for whatever reason, it rubbed me the wrong way. But I'm over it as I actually liked this post.

As far as my building strawmen, I was honestly putting forward my honest approximation of what I thought you were suggesting, but I think that just goes back to my view on those practicals I was talking about.

I really wasn't crazy about the suggestion of creating some kind of future prognostics department that would alert us to the talent levels of 10th graders so that we could know right when to tank. How are we going to do that without dumping everyone but Wall and fielding a skeleton crew? That one just ruffled my feathers.

So I don't see how we could really do that sort of thing without just sacrificing at least McGee and Blatche while plugging in players who fit poorly. Keep that point in mind because it underlines my grumpiness here: I literally think we are incapable of tanking for a top pick, especially three years out. We might be able to tank next year, but it's a poor draft, so we're a bit hamstrung.

I think we would almost certainly both agree that we face some danger of not plugging in the right talent amongst our younger players by getting too good too fast. We're kind of in 'middle ground tank mode", which you are well aware is hardly ideal. Personally, I have no real solution to that beyond 1) the longshot of scoring a bevy of picks and hauling in a Pierce/Granger type talent or 2) doing something exciting in free agency.

In either of those scenarios, I would not try and reconstruct past championship teams and just snatch up the best talent available, be they a small forward or what have you. If that leads to a stable of assets that can be swung for a superstar big, then great, but otherwise we'll just go with what we've got while being flexible.

[Hoopalotta]

You had nothing to add in the first place.

Come on, you just articulated an "eh, we're never winning a championship anyway, let's just shoot for 47 wins and concede to the Celtics" argument.

We're you expecting that bird to fly unchallenged?

[AceDegenerate]

You had nothing to add in the first place.

Come on, you just articulated an "eh, we're never winning a championship anyway, let's just shoot for 47 wins and concede to the Celtics" argument.

We're you expecting that bird to fly unchallenged?

You haven't challenged a thing. Like I said take all this Wizards Championship talk anywhere outside a Wizards forum and we'll see who looks like the clown here.

I'm being realistic here.

[Hoopalotta]

Nobody's going to look like a clown for hoping their team wins a championship even if they ultimately fall short.

[Hoopalotta]

We need foresight to be able to predict the league and draft out five years.

Barely, briefly and just for clarity's sake and going back to "words in the mouth", "Strawmen" and "I never said that" type stuff, I was working under the assumption that projecting the draft out for five years meant suddenly deconstructing the team for one of those superstar bigs (i.e. trading Blatche for a shot at a high draft pick).

Even if that's not what you actually meant, it seems a reasonable idea to draw from that (suffice to say we're not targetting Danny Granger with the 18th pick five years out).

I only mention that so you understand where I was coming from before.

[montestewart]

You had nothing to add in the first place.

Come on, you just articulated an "eh, we're never winning a championship anyway, let's just shoot for 47 wins and concede to the Celtics" argument.

We're you expecting that bird to fly unchallenged?

You haven't challenged a thing. Like I said take all this Wizards Championship talk anywhere outside a Wizards forum and we'll see who looks like the clown here.

I'm being realistic here.

This debate's going nowhere. I want what that old man wanted, even if I disagree with his approach. I want a plan that works toward a championship. I could not care less what a nebulous blob of partisan buffoons on the general board thinks. Yeah, it can call me a clown for aspiring to root for a champion, but it thinks "you suck" is deep analysis and "poo-poo head" is a clever insult. And it just don't understand that "long odds" or "unlikely" are not the same as "impossible." With facts, reason, logic, and history on my side, I can live with that idiot thinking I'm a clown, and I'm being completely realistic. Go Wizards! Play ball!

[Dat2U]

You do realize this is a business right? These owners are in the business of Entertainment. There is many an owner in this league that would trade all the championships in the world for a profitable team. You people with your championship dreams are the joke. It made sense as a dying old man's wish, but now it's just ridiculous. Go talk all this Washington Wizard NBA Champion talk on the General Board and see how serious anybody takes you.

Wow, just because you embrace a loser's mentality doesn't mean the rest of us have to.

Your not sounding realistic, your sounding pathetic.

[fishercob]

You do realize this is a business right? These owners are in the business of Entertainment. There is many an owner in this league that would trade all the championships in the world for a profitable team. You people with your championship dreams are the joke. It made sense as a dying old man's wish, but now it's just ridiculous. Go talk all this Washington Wizard NBA Champion talk on the General Board and see how serious anybody takes you.

HOF Post -- for the weakest sauce ever served in these parts.

Why are you even here? Shouldn't you be at a Globetrotters game or counting the days until the And1 bus rolls through town?

Have you ever done anything competitive in your life? So if something is hard or unlikely you should give up? That is a million types of pathetic and misses every important lesson taught by competitive sports, not to mention capitalism.

"If you will it, it is no dream." Theodore Herzl.

[MJG]

These past couple of pages have been quite enlightening. When I've questioned KZ in the past, I always did so thinking that he was DCZ-EJ or LR-EG type delusional about how good Arenas can be, that Arenas was ready to return as the driving force behind a championship organization. But now that I see that the highest mountain he wants to climb is a semi-competitive 4-2 loss to Boston in the second round, his comments seem much more level-headed. I mean, trading Arenas is a step backwards when your wildest fantasy involves 46 wins and narrowly missing out on home court advantage.

[barelyawake]

Alright hoops, I got friggin' sea turtles to swim with. I'll end it this way, I think you overrate Blatche. 20-10 on a bad team isn't 20-10 on a championship team. And I have every faith that Arenas, not Blatche, is what is keeping us from tanking. I have no problem buildIng around a backcourt of wall/arenas, if we figure a way to get us a better big in the next three years. But, I think the most realistic plan is to scope the draft after next, rehab arenas for a year, then tank the year after by trading him away (if said draft is nice and deep -- which I haven't checked yet). Back to my fruity beach drinks.

[AceDegenerate]

You do realize this is a business right? These owners are in the business of Entertainment. There is many an owner in this league that would trade all the championships in the world for a profitable team. You people with your championship dreams are the joke. It made sense as a dying old man's wish, but now it's just ridiculous. Go talk all this Washington Wizard NBA Champion talk on the General Board and see how serious anybody takes you.

Wow, just because you embrace a loser's mentality doesn't mean the rest of us have to.

Your not sounding realistic, your sounding pathetic.

Right. The team is one of the jokes of this league and always has been, and me being realistic about Championship opportunities gets me run off the board.

You are all a bunch delusional idiots. I get suspended on this forum for much less than I have to put up with in response to any of my posts. I'm done here for now, continue on with your playground fantasies of Championship banners where WNBA Attendance banners used to hang in the rafters.

[fishercob]

Alright hoops, I got friggin' sea turtles to swim with. I'll end it this way, I think you overrate Blatche. 20-10 on a bad team isn't 20-10 on a championship team. And I have every faith that Arenas, not Blatche, is what is keeping us from tanking. I have no problem buildIng around a backcourt of wall/arenas, if we figure a way to get us a better big in the next three years. But, I think the most realistic plan is to scope the draft after next, rehab arenas for a year, then tank the year after by trading him away (if said draft is nice and deep -- which I haven't checked yet). Back to my fruity beach drinks.

Barely, it takes 5. Actually it takes 8 or 9, but the point is that if the players around him are good enough, Blatche is good enough to be a starter and major contributor to a championship level team. His numbers compare very well to Gasol's at a similar age, and he rates out well with some of the best passing bigs of all time (also at his age). He's faaaaaaar from a finished product, but I've seen enough improvement from him to believe that he'll reach more of his potential than he'll squander. He's by no means a first option for a contender, but he's a legit piece -- especially when paired with a Dikembe-type in the middle.

[montestewart]

You do realize this is a business right? These owners are in the business of Entertainment. There is many an owner in this league that would trade all the championships in the world for a profitable team. You people with your championship dreams are the joke. It made sense as a dying old man's wish, but now it's just ridiculous. Go talk all this Washington Wizard NBA Champion talk on the General Board and see how serious anybody takes you.

Wow, just because you embrace a loser's mentality doesn't mean the rest of us have to.

Your not sounding realistic, your sounding pathetic.

Right. The team is one of the jokes of this league and always has been, and me being realistic about Championship opportunities gets me run off the board.

You are all a bunch delusional idiots. I get suspended on this forum for much less than I have to put up with in response to any of my posts. I'm done here for now, continue on with your playground fantasies of Championship banners where WNBA Attendance banners used to hang in the rafters.

Only a mod can run you off the board, unless you're scared of some healthy debate. Comments like "You are all a bunch delusional idiots," might make you feel a little put upon though. Maybe you'd feel more comfortable in the "Avoiding a 4-game sweep in round 2 is my NBA championship" thread.

PS: I still think Arenas can be part of a Wizards run at a championship, no matter what you think of him.