2015 Free Agency and Offseason - Part II

[dangermouse]

Someone mentioned Dirk recently (I hate posting via my phone)

Cuban did say that it was Jordan or tank, like a week ago before DJ flip flopped.

I guess their plan as of now depends on what you perceive "tank" to mean. I think as a Wizards fan it's easy to assume he means blowing it up and trading players, since we've had many blow ups in the last decade plus.

He probably just means resting his main guys to purposefully lose games, big short term contracts that come off the books after this season, and drafting with a high pick. Dirk is a loyal guy and I can't see him requesting a trade despite this situation. He's also getting paid a pittance for what he is worth. They'll have a tonne of money to lure guys in next season. It could even look like more of an attractive destination than DC for Durant, which puts that acquisition for us deeper into the box of unlikelihood.

It would be awesome. I'd give up firsts and otto and filler to get it done. Throw in satoransky to give them a new euro to develop. It'd put us in the true contender category. But It is ultimately a pipe dream

[FAH1223]

Someone mentioned Dirk recently (I hate posting via my phone)

Cuban did say that it was Jordan or tank, like a week ago before DJ flip flopped.

I guess their plan as of now depends on what you perceive "tank" to mean. I think as a Wizards fan it's easy to assume he means blowing it up and trading players, since we've had many blow ups in the last decade plus.

He probably just means resting his main guys to purposefully lose games, big short term contracts that come off the books after this season, and drafting with a high pick. Dirk is a loyal guy and I can't see him requesting a trade despite this situation. He's also getting paid a pittance for what he is worth. They'll have a tonne of money to lure guys in next season. It could even look like more of an attractive destination than DC for Durant, which puts that acquisition for us deeper into the box of unlikelihood.

It would be awesome. I'd give up firsts and otto and filler to get it done. Throw in satoransky to give them a new euro to develop. It'd put us in the true contender category. But It is ultimately a pipe dream

Dirk is making $8M per season

DAL won't trade him.

[Error Afflalo]

Someone mentioned Dirk recently (I hate posting via my phone)

Cuban did say that it was Jordan or tank, like a week ago before DJ flip flopped.

I guess their plan as of now depends on what you perceive "tank" to mean. I think as a Wizards fan it's easy to assume he means blowing it up and trading players, since we've had many blow ups in the last decade plus.

He probably just means resting his main guys to purposefully lose games, big short term contracts that come off the books after this season, and drafting with a high pick. Dirk is a loyal guy and I can't see him requesting a trade despite this situation. He's also getting paid a pittance for what he is worth. They'll have a tonne of money to lure guys in next season. It could even look like more of an attractive destination than DC for Durant, which puts that acquisition for us deeper into the box of unlikelihood.

It would be awesome. I'd give up firsts and otto and filler to get it done. Throw in satoransky to give them a new euro to develop. It'd put us in the true contender category. But It is ultimately a pipe dream

I wouldn't even think about giving up Otto for a 37 year old Dirk. But like you said, it's a pipe dream. Dallas loses their pick this year if it lands outside the top 7, so there's no incentive for them to be bad. I bet they're regretting that Matthews deal right about now.

[Ironpanthr]

Someone mentioned Dirk recently (I hate posting via my phone)

Cuban did say that it was Jordan or tank, like a week ago before DJ flip flopped.

I guess their plan as of now depends on what you perceive "tank" to mean. I think as a Wizards fan it's easy to assume he means blowing it up and trading players, since we've had many blow ups in the last decade plus.

He probably just means resting his main guys to purposefully lose games, big short term contracts that come off the books after this season, and drafting with a high pick. Dirk is a loyal guy and I can't see him requesting a trade despite this situation. He's also getting paid a pittance for what he is worth. They'll have a tonne of money to lure guys in next season. It could even look like more of an attractive destination than DC for Durant, which puts that acquisition for us deeper into the box of unlikelihood.

It would be awesome. I'd give up firsts and otto and filler to get it done. Throw in satoransky to give them a new euro to develop. It'd put us in the true contender category. But It is ultimately a pipe dream

Not sure I agree that this makes Dallas more attractive to KD. I think it's the opposite. With Jordan in place, they at least had a another "star" on the books. As is, they don't have much that would make KD think he can win there. In the West. Sure they might have enough cap space to try to lure two max players, but that's a long shot (hard to get the second without the first).

I also believe this takes the Clippers out of the running, as I don't see them having the cap space.

[hands11]

Someone mentioned Dirk recently (I hate posting via my phone)

Cuban did say that it was Jordan or tank, like a week ago before DJ flip flopped.

I guess their plan as of now depends on what you perceive "tank" to mean. I think as a Wizards fan it's easy to assume he means blowing it up and trading players, since we've had many blow ups in the last decade plus.

He probably just means resting his main guys to purposefully lose games, big short term contracts that come off the books after this season, and drafting with a high pick. Dirk is a loyal guy and I can't see him requesting a trade despite this situation. He's also getting paid a pittance for what he is worth. They'll have a tonne of money to lure guys in next season. It could even look like more of an attractive destination than DC for Durant, which puts that acquisition for us deeper into the box of unlikelihood.

It would be awesome. I'd give up firsts and otto and filler to get it done. Throw in satoransky to give them a new euro to develop. It'd put us in the true contender category. But It is ultimately a pipe dream

We have ? I remember just the 2009/10 blow up. Abe never blow it up on purpose that I remember. They just made terrible decisions and ended up a terrible team. Over and over for like 25 years.

And now that DJ is back to LA again, I would like to take this special moment to point out that not building through the draft and just having a lot of cap space is not the end all be all that people think/thought.

DAL won a title a lot sooner then the Wizards have. And have Dirk. And a lot better of a reputation then the Wizards had back in 2010/11. And they have been left holding the bag several times now by clearing cap and not landing the player they wanted. And even when they landed one, Ellis, he still left.

And notice..

"Ellis turned down a larger offer from the Sacramento Kings, who offered him a four-year, $48 million deal, sources said."

I point this out because of how many people argued against that Lewis for Okakor/TA trade. Now you can better see why it was a viable move. The Wizards getting cap space back then, specially when the the franchise is a pretty bad shape, was no way a given they would land players like Parsons in FA. Good FAs go where they want for all kinds of reasons and its usually to the best situation. Look at West going to SAS. Jordan walking away from a done DAL deal. LMA to SAS. etc. Some called thinking they couldn't land that quality FA a loser mentality. Looks like it was just some of us being realistic given the situation and now that the situation has dramatically changed, we are supporting clearing cap for KD because now the timing is better.

The Wizards used that large Lewis contract to get two viable players via trade, neither of which would have probably willingly come on their own. And those two players played important rolls in the rebuild. Then Okafor and a mid first got turned into Gortat and now Gortat is a key part of the team and a top 5 quality center.

Now having cap space next year is gamble, but they are much better place to take advantage of it. They have 3 young core pieces. They have a much improved reputation. They have back to back 2nd round appearances. And they have a legit target with unique special reasons for why that target would choice them. Wall connections. Wall's style of play. Its his home. The players coming home theme.. LeBron, Paul, etc.

That's a better time to clear cap to go after quality FAs vs trading it for players who aren't FAs.

So for those that hated the Lewis for Okafor/TA trade and felt this would lead to a dead end rebuild and that they have gotten off their plan to rebuild through the draft ( and slammed Ted ), now you can look back and better see why going to the free cap model might not have been a good idea vs a trade for talent, and that they didn't get off the plan to build through the draft, instead, they just focused on a the best players they drafted (Wall/Beal and now Otto) by putting vets around them so they could get the most out of them by making them winners in the playoffs and getting them vet mentoring. Something I think is really important for young core talent to experience and learn early in their careers.

Ted/EG have made mistakes but I don't think this was one of them. Actually, I think his was a big reason why the team developed as well as it has. It was a key move to the teams benefit that they turned into another key move, getting Gortat. They might not make all the right micro moves, but macro...they are going good. Its been a viable rebuild.

[hands11]

Someone mentioned Dirk recently (I hate posting via my phone)

Cuban did say that it was Jordan or tank, like a week ago before DJ flip flopped.

I guess their plan as of now depends on what you perceive "tank" to mean. I think as a Wizards fan it's easy to assume he means blowing it up and trading players, since we've had many blow ups in the last decade plus.

He probably just means resting his main guys to purposefully lose games, big short term contracts that come off the books after this season, and drafting with a high pick. Dirk is a loyal guy and I can't see him requesting a trade despite this situation. He's also getting paid a pittance for what he is worth. They'll have a tonne of money to lure guys in next season. It could even look like more of an attractive destination than DC for Durant, which puts that acquisition for us deeper into the box of unlikelihood.

It would be awesome. I'd give up firsts and otto and filler to get it done. Throw in satoransky to give them a new euro to develop. It'd put us in the true contender category. But It is ultimately a pipe dream

Not sure I agree that this makes Dallas more attractive to KD. I think it's the opposite. With Jordan in place, they at least had a another "star" on the books. As is, they don't have much that would make KD think he can win there. In the West. Sure they might have enough cap space to try to lure two max players, but that's a long shot (hard to get the second without the first).

I also believe this takes the Clippers out of the running, as I don't see them having the cap space.

No wonder DJ wouldn't take that meeting with Cuban. He just single handly destroyed that franchise who was stretching it out as long as they could in hopes of winning something while Dirk was still there. I was hoping we could get Dirk last time he was a FA because I felt they should blow it up and rebuild back then. Well, now they are there again. They should do the right thing and tell Dirk to find greener pastures.

#FreeTheDirk2DC

DAL needs to spend some money and they need to suck for the next 2-3 years. Give us Dirk. We will help them fill some salary and tank.

This is terrible timing for DAL with the cap going up so much next year. With DJ, they could go after the best FA. Now it looks like they are in free fall and no one will wont to go there. And, they really need to stink for a while so they shouldn't even use the cap they will have. And its not like a bring out the deal will work well because everyone will have cap space.

DAL is in the hurt locker.

[payitforward]

Someone mentioned Dirk recently (I hate posting via my phone)

Cuban did say that it was Jordan or tank, like a week ago before DJ flip flopped.

I guess their plan as of now depends on what you perceive "tank" to mean. I think as a Wizards fan it's easy to assume he means blowing it up and trading players, since we've had many blow ups in the last decade plus.

He probably just means resting his main guys to purposefully lose games, big short term contracts that come off the books after this season, and drafting with a high pick. Dirk is a loyal guy and I can't see him requesting a trade despite this situation. He's also getting paid a pittance for what he is worth. They'll have a tonne of money to lure guys in next season. It could even look like more of an attractive destination than DC for Durant, which puts that acquisition for us deeper into the box of unlikelihood.

It would be awesome. I'd give up firsts and otto and filler to get it done. Throw in satoransky to give them a new euro to develop. It'd put us in the true contender category. But It is ultimately a pipe dream

We have ? I remember just the 2009/10 blow up. Abe never blow it up on purpose that I remember. They just made terrible decisions and ended up a terrible team. Over and over for like 25 years.

And now that DJ is back to LA again, I would like to take this special moment to point out that not building through the draft and just having a lot of cap space is not the end all be all that people think/thought.

DAL won a title a lot sooner then the Wizards have. And have Dirk. And a lot better of a reputation then the Wizards had back in 2010/11. And they have been left holding the bag several times now by clearing cap and not landing the player they wanted. And even when they landed one, Ellis, he still left.

And notice..

"Ellis turned down a larger offer from the Sacramento Kings, who offered him a four-year, $48 million deal, sources said."

I point this out because of how many people argued against that Lewis for Okakor/TA trade. Now you can better see why it was a viable move. The Wizards getting cap space back then, specially when the the franchise is a pretty bad shape, was no way a given they would land players like Parsons in FA. Good FAs go where they want for all kinds of reasons and its usually to the best situation. Look at West going to SAS. Jordan walking away from a done DAL deal. LMA to SAS. etc. Some called thinking they couldn't land that quality FA a loser mentality. Looks like it was just some of us being realistic given the situation and now that the situation has dramatically changed, we are supporting clearing cap for KD because now the timing is better.

The Wizards used that large Lewis contract to get two viable players via trade, neither of which would have probably willingly come on their own. And those two players played important rolls in the rebuild. Then Okafor and a mid first got turned into Gortat and now Gortat is a key part of the team and a top 5 quality center.

Now having cap space next year is gamble, but they are much better place to take advantage of it. They have 3 young core pieces. They have a much improved reputation. They have back to back 2nd round appearances. And they have a legit target with unique special reasons for why that target would choice them. Wall connections. Wall's style of play. Its his home. The players coming home theme.. LeBron, Paul, etc.

That's a better time to clear cap to go after quality FAs vs trading it for players who aren't FAs.

So for those that hated the Lewis for Okafor/TA trade and felt this would lead to a dead end rebuild and that they have gotten off their plan to rebuild through the draft ( and slammed Ted ), now you can look back and better see why going to the free cap model might not have been a good idea vs a trade for talent, and that they didn't get off the plan to build through the draft, instead, they just focused on a the best players they drafted (Wall/Beal and now Otto) by putting vets around them so they could get the most out of them by making them winners in the playoffs and getting them vet mentoring. Something I think is really important for young core talent to experience and learn early in their careers.

Ted/EG have made mistakes but I don't think this was one of them. Actually, I think his was a big reason why the team developed as well as it has. It was a key move to the teams benefit that they turned into another key move, getting Gortat. They might not make all the right micro moves, but macro...they are going good. Its been a viable rebuild.

Silly me -- I keep trying to give Hands lessons in logic. Hands, please google "ex post facto fallacy" -- the above is a tissue of them. Could be used in a logic class to explicate ex post facto!

[Jay81]

How about Josh Smith. I think he gives us nice defense and rebounding if we can curtail his terrible shot selection. He would be a good fit on this current roster i think

[fishercob]

How about Josh Smith. I think he gives us nice defense and rebounding if we can curtail his terrible shot selection. He would be a good fit on this current roster i think

. This is not a terrible idea. Is it sort of telling though that Houston hasn't brought him back yet? That could be two teams in the span of year who plain don't want him. If there are character questions, I don't know if we'd risk it at this point.

That said, for cheap he'd be a nice fit up front.

[Jay81]

he averaged 8 reb,4 assists and 2 blocks per 36 minutes. I think our rebounding is really going to suffer this season if we leave the roster as is

[fishercob]

he averaged 8 reb,4 assists and 2 blocks per 36 minutes. I think our rebounding is really going to suffer this season if we leave the roster as is

Quite possible. We were tied for third best in defensive rebounding last year. So the question is can we improve the offense enough that it makes taking a defensive hit worthwhile.

Hi Ji.

[nate33]

I thought Smith might be a good idea before we added Anderson. I don't think we can get Smith with just the $1.6M we have left of the MLE.

[fishercob]

I thought Smith might be a good idea before we added Anderson. I don't think we can get Smith with just the $1.6M we have left of the MLE.

If we can get Dallas to acquire Seraphin via S&T, we could open up enough space to do the same for Smith. Long shot.

[jivelikenice]

I thought Smith might be a good idea before we added Anderson. I don't think we can get Smith with just the $1.6M we have left of the MLE.

If we can get Dallas to acquire Seraphin via S&T, we could open up enough space to do the same for Smith. Long shot.

Really just depends on the Mavs willingness to structure it as a S&T for us, right?

[nate33]

I thought Smith might be a good idea before we added Anderson. I don't think we can get Smith with just the $1.6M we have left of the MLE.

If we can get Dallas to acquire Seraphin via S&T, we could open up enough space to do the same for Smith. Long shot.

Really just depends on the Mavs willingness to structure it as a S&T for us, right?

If we told them we'd be using the TPE to take Josh Smith from Houston, Cuban would probably be willing to help us out.

[Rafael122]

So the Nets just rescinded their the qualifying offer to Mirza.

Nate - doable to do a Nene trade to Dallas? Clear the $13 mil in salary and try and get Hill and Mirza?

[fishercob]

So the Nets just rescinded their the qualifying offer to Mirza.

Nate - doable to do a Nene trade to Dallas? Clear the $13 mil in salary and try and get Hill and Mirza?

I'd rather have Nene.

And I don't like Nene.

But these "lets dump Nene!!!" deals make no sense.

He's going to be a good backup center -- perhaps one of the better ones in the league -- if he gets on board.

[Rafael122]

So the Nets just rescinded their the qualifying offer to Mirza.

Nate - doable to do a Nene trade to Dallas? Clear the $13 mil in salary and try and get Hill and Mirza?

I'd rather have Nene.

And I don't like Nene.

But these "lets dump Nene!!!" deals make no sense.

He's going to be a good backup center -- perhaps one of the better ones in the league -- if he gets on board.

Or sign and trade Seraphin w/Dallas, use the TPE to do a sign and trade w/Brooklyn for Mirza.

[nate33]

So the Nets just rescinded their the qualifying offer to Mirza.

Nate - doable to do a Nene trade to Dallas? Clear the $13 mil in salary and try and get Hill and Mirza?

Our payroll is currently $77.7M. The salary cap is $70M. Nene's salary is $13M.

If we managed to trade away Nene's entire salary, we would have either a $13M TPE or $5.3M in raw cap space. Do you think you can add players better than Nene with either of those assets? And would those players be willing to sign for just 1 year?

[jivelikenice]

Best bet now is to get a TPE for Seraphin and use it on Mirza. Then for center depth they can always either trade Blair to clear a spot or actually play him if needed.