Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI

[deneem4]

We need a guy like Monroe because it's hard for us to stay consistent offensively
With a big that can pass and get his own
(good or better than nene when nene feel like it)
We can finally get a go to scorer

Defensively he's average at best...but we're a pretty good defensive group with guys who has shown good potential to becoming above average...
There's also this current free agency with some options...
Gortat is good but he doesn't push the needle enough...offensively or defensively...
And right now we aren't good enough offensively

[stevemcqueen1]

I would rather run the offense through Wall and Beal than Monroe. Monroe just isn't a good fit for us. We need dirty work centers that can thrive while being the fourth or fifth option. Not a high usage offensive specialist. We already have a pretty good offense, and the way to improve it is to get more and better shooting outlets and get a back up PG that can keep the show running when Wall sits. We need shot creators less than we need finishers.

I can't take credit for this idea, it was from someone else on a different forum, but I like the idea of going after Brandon Jennings for the back up PG spot. Maybe he wouldn't cost too much after coming off such a poor and injury riddled season? He'd bring that same dynamic element of speed to the second unit that Wall does to the first.

[deneem4]

I would rather run the offense through Wall and Beal than Monroe. Monroe just isn't a good fit for us. We need dirty work centers that can thrive while being the fourth or fifth option. Not a high usage offensive specialist. We already have a pretty good offense, and the way to improve it is to get more and better shooting outlets and get a back up PG that can keep the show running when Wall sits. We need shot creators less than we need finishers.

I can't take credit for this idea, it was from someone else on a different forum, but I like the idea of going after Brandon Jennings for the back up PG spot. Maybe he wouldn't cost too much after coming off such a poor and injury riddled season? He'd bring that same dynamic element of speed to the second unit that Wall does to the first.

But we don't have a good offense were bottom half of the league..were also a horrible rebounding squad...I like Jennings but we need some defense coming off the bench as well

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Gortat, Porter, Morris, Oubre for Cousins, Gay?


http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6701449


Leaves us a hole at PF need to fill in FA... Horford?


Cousins, Horford, Gay, Beal, Wall

[SizzlinSimms]

Gortat, Porter, Morris, Oubre for Cousins, Gay?


http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6701449


Leaves us a hole at PF need to fill in FA... Horford?


Cousins, Horford, Gay, Beal, Wall

They would never say yes to that.

[payitforward]

Gortat, Porter, Morris, Oubre for Cousins, Gay?


http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6701449


Leaves us a hole at PF need to fill in FA... Horford?


Cousins, Horford, Gay, Beal, Wall

They would never say yes to that.

Wow... what a horrible trade! We'd be lucky to win 25 games. Unbelievable, really. On top of which Sizzlin thinks we'd need to give them even more.

[montestewart]

Gortat, Porter, Morris, Oubre for Cousins, Gay?


http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6701449


Leaves us a hole at PF need to fill in FA... Horford?


Cousins, Horford, Gay, Beal, Wall

They would never say yes to that.

Wow... what a horrible trade! We'd be lucky to win 25 games. Unbelievable, really. On top of which Sizzlin thinks we'd need to give them even more.

I'd prefer going forward with Gortat, Horford, Porter, Beal, Wall. Plus, Wizards keep Oubre.

[Dat2U]

Gortat, Porter, Morris, Oubre for Cousins, Gay?


http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6701449


Leaves us a hole at PF need to fill in FA... Horford?


Cousins, Horford, Gay, Beal, Wall

They would never say yes to that.

Wow... what a horrible trade! We'd be lucky to win 25 games. Unbelievable, really. On top of which Sizzlin thinks we'd need to give them even more.

I think your in the minority. Cousins may waste possessions far beyond your liking but he's an elite talent. The on/off measures love him & RPM says he's an impact player (top 20 in the league). With Cousins & Wall I think we'd win a helluva lot more than 25 games, that suggestion is just ridiculous. Is that what WP48 tells you? Anyway all this discussion is moot. Kings would never make that deal.

[dckingsfan]

Beal for Millsap? Never mind - wouldn't make sense for Atlanta, doesn't free up any cap space.

[stevemcqueen1]

Welp, looks like it's time to start exploring Gortat deals. I've got nothing that comes to mind right off the bat.

[Ruzious]

Welp, looks like it's time to start exploring Gortat deals. I've got nothing that comes to mind right off the bat.

Gortat for draft picks. They're tankalicious. Seriously, where are we going next season? Might as well get Hinkle here.

And Boston probably makes the most sense! Gortat would fit perfectly with Horford, and they have lots of extra picks to trade. Make sure they include Jordan Mickey in the trade.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Welp, looks like it's time to start exploring Gortat deals. I've got nothing that comes to mind right off the bat.

Maybe something involving Gortat and Morris for Love?

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6702597

[FAH1223]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/mellentuck/status/749309744653987840[/tweet]

[Illuminaire]

Nice chart. I was working on a spreadsheet of that very thing, but now I don't have to. Thanks for linking it.

Backs up what I thought... teams are paying about 10-20% more than they would have last year, relative to the cap. Sometimes more than that. It's a seller's market because of the sudden glut of money, but most of these ARE bad deals.

[payitforward]

They would never say yes to that.

Wow... what a horrible trade! We'd be lucky to win 25 games. Unbelievable, really. On top of which Sizzlin thinks we'd need to give them even more.

I think your in the minority. Cousins may waste possessions far beyond your liking but he's an elite talent. The on/off measures love him & RPM says he's an impact player (top 20 in the league). With Cousins & Wall I think we'd win a helluva lot more than 25 games, that suggestion is just ridiculous. Is that what WP48 tells you? Anyway all this discussion is moot. Kings would never make that deal.

I know I'm in the minority on the question of Cousins -- whom, btw, I might well have taken over Wall in the 2010 draft had I been making the choice. But that minority includes the people here whose basketball analysis I think the most reliable, e.g. Kevin (and a few others as well).

On/off measures can only measure you against other players on your team. So much for that. As to RPM, in that case we have the added problem that, to my knowledge, there's no way to assess it. Do you know how RPM is calculated, Dat? I sure don't. If you don't, then what's the source of your trust in it? If you, well... please explain! I'd love to know.

There's no need, OTOH, for anything fancy -- whether it's religion or irreligion, RPM or WP48 -- to understand the problems with Cousins.

Last year, 27 guys played over 25 minutes a game at Center. Of those guys, Cousins took the most shots per 40 minutes -- way more than average. 15% more than the next guy on the list. Unfortunately, his effective FG% was 25th lowest of the 27 guys. His TS% was 24th. That's really not what you want, is it? An extremely low % shooter taking lots and lots of shots? Even if he is an "elite talent?"

Then too, when he has the ball he is less likely than any of those other Centers to hold on to it. He turns the ball over 4.4 times every 40 minutes -- worst of the 27 guys, and almost 40% worse than the next worst guy! He does get .7 more steals than the average guy on that list, which makes up a little (but not enough) for the TOs. He's also fourth worst in committing fouls as well.

He's a very good defensive rebounder -- 5th best on that list. Unfortunately, he is a bad offensive rebounder -- 6th worst on the list.

Tell me something, night in and night out, would it be better for his team or worse for his team if he committed 2 fewer turnovers every night?

DeMarcus Cousins is an elite talent, no irony and no doubt about it. Unfortunately, he doesn't produce in games at the level of his talent.

edit: I forgot to mention that I think the trade also had us give up Gortat, Porter, and Oubre -- plus Morris. That's every single asset we have managed to scrape up in the last 4 years of drafts and draft-related trades.

When the trade was suggested, moreover, we had only 2 other players -- Wall and Beal. Had it been consummated. We'd have had almost $60m invested in 3 players. Would have left us able to pay @ $3.3m per player for the other 11 guys we'd need. As I said, we'd have been lucky to win 25 games.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Wow... what a horrible trade! We'd be lucky to win 25 games. Unbelievable, really. On top of which Sizzlin thinks we'd need to give them even more.

I think your in the minority. Cousins may waste possessions far beyond your liking but he's an elite talent. The on/off measures love him & RPM says he's an impact player (top 20 in the league). With Cousins & Wall I think we'd win a helluva lot more than 25 games, that suggestion is just ridiculous. Is that what WP48 tells you? Anyway all this discussion is moot. Kings would never make that deal.

I know I'm in the minority on the question of Cousins -- whom, btw, I might well have taken over Wall in the 2010 draft had I been making the choice. But that minority includes the people here whose basketball analysis I think the most reliable, e.g. Kevin (and a few others as well).

On/off measures can only measure you against other players on your team. So much for that. As to RPM, in that case we have the added problem that, to my knowledge, there's no way to assess it. Do you know how RPM is calculated, Dat? I sure don't. If you don't, then what's the source of your trust in it? If you, well... please explain! I'd love to know.

There's no need, OTOH, for anything fancy -- whether it's religion or irreligion, RPM or WP48 -- to understand the problems with Cousins.

Last year, 27 guys played over 25 minutes a game at Center. Of those guys, Cousins took the most shots per 40 minutes -- way more than average. 15% more than the next guy on the list. Unfortunately, his effective FG% was 25th lowest of the 27 guys. His TS% was 24th. That's really not what you want, is it? An extremely low % shooter taking lots and lots of shots? Even if he is an "elite talent?"

Then too, when he has the ball he is less likely than any of those other Centers to hold on to it. He turns the ball over 4.4 times every 40 minutes -- worst of the 27 guys, and almost 40% worse than the next worst guy! He does get .7 more steals than the average guy on that list, which makes up a little (but not enough) for the TOs. He's also fourth worst in committing fouls as well.

He's a very good defensive rebounder -- 5th best on that list. Unfortunately, he is a bad offensive rebounder -- 6th worst on the list.

Tell me something, night in and night out, would it be better for his team or worse for his team if he committed 2 fewer turnovers every night?

DeMarcus Cousins is an elite talent, no irony and no doubt about it. Unfortunately, he doesn't produce in games at the level of his talent.

edit: I forgot to mention that I think the trade also had us give up Gortat, Porter, and Oubre -- plus Morris. That's every single asset we have managed to scrape up in the last 4 years of drafts and draft-related trades.

When the trade was suggested, moreover, we had only 2 other players -- Wall and Beal. Had it been consummated. We'd have had almost $60m invested in 3 players. Would have left us able to pay @ $3.3m per player for the other 11 guys we'd need. As I said, we'd have been lucky to win 25 games.

Well to be clear the proposed deal also would have brought back Rudy Gay.

But that's irrelevant at this point.

But what about something with Gortat and Kief for Love?

Or is that also just out of the realm of possibilities? Cavs lost Mozgov and can use a center, Morris as depth at C/PF. There have been grumblings about moving Love out of there for a while.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Gotta be a trade in the works, right?

Wiz can't run out this group of misfit toys, can they?

[payitforward]

I think your in the minority. Cousins may waste possessions far beyond your liking but he's an elite talent. The on/off measures love him & RPM says he's an impact player (top 20 in the league). With Cousins & Wall I think we'd win a helluva lot more than 25 games, that suggestion is just ridiculous. Is that what WP48 tells you? Anyway all this discussion is moot. Kings would never make that deal.

I know I'm in the minority on the question of Cousins -- whom, btw, I might well have taken over Wall in the 2010 draft had I been making the choice. But that minority includes the people here whose basketball analysis I think the most reliable, e.g. Kevin (and a few others as well).

On/off measures can only measure you against other players on your team. So much for that. As to RPM, in that case we have the added problem that, to my knowledge, there's no way to assess it. Do you know how RPM is calculated, Dat? I sure don't. If you don't, then what's the source of your trust in it? If you, well... please explain! I'd love to know.

There's no need, OTOH, for anything fancy -- whether it's religion or irreligion, RPM or WP48 -- to understand the problems with Cousins.

Last year, 27 guys played over 25 minutes a game at Center. Of those guys, Cousins took the most shots per 40 minutes -- way more than average. 15% more than the next guy on the list. Unfortunately, his effective FG% was 25th lowest of the 27 guys. His TS% was 24th. That's really not what you want, is it? An extremely low % shooter taking lots and lots of shots? Even if he is an "elite talent?"

Then too, when he has the ball he is less likely than any of those other Centers to hold on to it. He turns the ball over 4.4 times every 40 minutes -- worst of the 27 guys, and almost 40% worse than the next worst guy! He does get .7 more steals than the average guy on that list, which makes up a little (but not enough) for the TOs. He's also fourth worst in committing fouls as well.

He's a very good defensive rebounder -- 5th best on that list. Unfortunately, he is a bad offensive rebounder -- 6th worst on the list.

Tell me something, night in and night out, would it be better for his team or worse for his team if he committed 2 fewer turnovers every night?

DeMarcus Cousins is an elite talent, no irony and no doubt about it. Unfortunately, he doesn't produce in games at the level of his talent.

edit: I forgot to mention that I think the trade also had us give up Gortat, Porter, and Oubre -- plus Morris. That's every single asset we have managed to scrape up in the last 4 years of drafts and draft-related trades.

When the trade was suggested, moreover, we had only 2 other players -- Wall and Beal. Had it been consummated. We'd have had almost $60m invested in 3 players. Would have left us able to pay @ $3.3m per player for the other 11 guys we'd need. As I said, we'd have been lucky to win 25 games.

Well to be clear the proposed deal also would have brought back Rudy Gay.

...with his $14m+ salary. Hence we'd have had 4 guys earning $74m. @$24m for the other 10 guys we'd need. All in all a ridiculous idea for a trade.

[verbal8]

Nice chart. I was working on a spreadsheet of that very thing, but now I don't have to. Thanks for linking it.

Backs up what I thought... teams are paying about 10-20% more than they would have last year, relative to the cap. Sometimes more than that. It's a seller's market because of the sudden glut of money, but most of these ARE bad deals.

The numbers on that chart make the salaries this offseason seem a little more reasonable. However what I think a lot of teams are going to really regret are the years they are handing out with these deals.

[pcbothwel]

Gotta be a trade in the works, right?

Wiz can't run out this group of misfit toys, can they?

Misfit?

Wall / Burke
Beal / Sato
Otto / Oubre
Kieff / Nicholson
Gortat / Mahinmi

We also have McClellan, 6M in cap space, and the room exception to fill out another G, a wing, and big.

What EG is doing is building a deep team and hoping Brooks and Co can make Wall, Beal, Otto, and Oubre improve. If we prove to be a 47 -50 win team, then we have the assets to add final piece (Cousins, Blake, Gallinari, etc.)