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Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2

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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#101 » by FAH1223 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:35 pm

nate33 wrote:I'd say 25 wins is a pretty good estimate. We are definitely better than rosters the Knicks and Cavs wheeled out last year (winning 17 and 19 games respectively). This year, the Knicks, Cavs and Hornets figure to be worse than us, and Chicago, Atlanta and Phoenix aren't much better. It's pretty hard to beat out 4 teams and not get to at least 23 or 24 wins.

Compare this team to last year. We have Bertans instead of Otto/Portis which is a modest downgrade (better than Portis, worse than Otto). And we have Hachimura instead of Morris/Parker, which may be a downgrade, but maybe not. Ish replaces Sato which is a significant downgrade. On the other hand, Brown replaces Ariza which might be a small upgrade. And this year's Bryant will replace last year's Bryant/Howard which is an upgrade. I don't expect Beal to be any better, but he might be. Last year's team won 32. Looking at those comparisons, are we more than 4 or 5 games worse?

I think we can get to 30 wins if a few things break right. Primarily, we need Bryant to play slightly better than last year, but for 33 minutes a night, and we need one of Brown or Hachimura to be an average starter. And Beal can't get hurt.


Since signing his 5 year contract in 2016, Beal has been an iron-man. Played every game the last 2 years. Missed only 5 in 2016-17.

I remember when we'd wonder when he had a stress reaction in his leg every year which would force him out 10+ games.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#102 » by nate33 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:29 pm

FAH1223 wrote:
nate33 wrote:I'd say 25 wins is a pretty good estimate. We are definitely better than rosters the Knicks and Cavs wheeled out last year (winning 17 and 19 games respectively). This year, the Knicks, Cavs and Hornets figure to be worse than us, and Chicago, Atlanta and Phoenix aren't much better. It's pretty hard to beat out 4 teams and not get to at least 23 or 24 wins.

Compare this team to last year. We have Bertans instead of Otto/Portis which is a modest downgrade (better than Portis, worse than Otto). And we have Hachimura instead of Morris/Parker, which may be a downgrade, but maybe not. Ish replaces Sato which is a significant downgrade. On the other hand, Brown replaces Ariza which might be a small upgrade. And this year's Bryant will replace last year's Bryant/Howard which is an upgrade. I don't expect Beal to be any better, but he might be. Last year's team won 32. Looking at those comparisons, are we more than 4 or 5 games worse?

I think we can get to 30 wins if a few things break right. Primarily, we need Bryant to play slightly better than last year, but for 33 minutes a night, and we need one of Brown or Hachimura to be an average starter. And Beal can't get hurt.


Since signing his 5 year contract in 2016, Beal has been an iron-man. Played every game the last 2 years. Missed only 5 in 2016-17.

I remember when we'd wonder when he had a stress reaction in his leg every year which would force him out 10+ games.

Oh, I agree. Beal has been an iron man. But I didn't want to take that for granted. If he rolls an ankle and misses 12 games, we're going to lose at least 11 of them.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#103 » by TroubleS0me » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:11 am

damn Beal gonna leave yall?
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#104 » by payitforward » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:32 am

nate33 wrote:I'd say 25 wins is a pretty good estimate. ...Compare this team to last year. We have Bertans instead of Otto/Portis which is a modest downgrade (better than Portis, worse than Otto). And we have Hachimura instead of Morris/Parker, which may be a downgrade, but maybe not. Ish replaces Sato which is a significant downgrade. On the other hand, Brown replaces Ariza which might be a small upgrade. And this year's Bryant will replace last year's Bryant/Howard which is an upgrade. I don't expect Beal to be any better, but he might be. Last year's team won 32. Looking at those comparisons, are we more than 4 or 5 games worse?...

Our 2d half team went 10-18 -- a 29 win pace. Ariza played quite well, actually -- I'll be happy if Brown is about the same level as he was.

But here's something that seems really weird to me:

There are 19,680 player-minutes in an nba season (82 times 240). The guys who are gone from last year's team, plus John who won't play this year, accounted for 13,831 of those minutes last year.

IOW, only 5,849 minutes were played by guys who are returning. Beal played more than half of them, 3,028 minutes, & Bryant played more than half of the rest of them, 1496 minutes.

In other words, past Beal & Bryant, we are bringing back only about 1400 minutes of floor time from last season!

As I said... seems really weird!
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#105 » by 80sballboy » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:51 am

Here is the Beal article from Candace Buckner. Just shocking.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/07/14/bradley-beal-can-sign-an-extension-with-wizards-soon-if-he-doesnt-beware/?utm_term=.9bb4ac5c03c5




LAS VEGAS — From his courtside seat at the Washington Wizards’ summer league games last week, Bradley Beal looked like one of the NBA’s few stars still content with his situation.

He sat next to John Wall and down the row from managing partner Ted Leonsis, Coach Scott Brooks and Tommy Sheppard, the team’s interim president of basketball operations. For the Wizards, it looked like a picture of stability: Beal, their healthy all-star, was smiling and showing support for his franchise amid an offseason of massive change.

But the current landscape of the NBA may disrupt this united front: The league has entered an unprecedented era of player empowerment in which a chosen few can dictate movement.

Beal has been the antithesis of the short-time superstar, long expressing loyalty and a preference to stay with the franchise that drafted him in 2012. “I’m just going to give it all here until I can’t no more, until they don’t want me anymore,” he said in February.


But Beal’s upcoming decision on a contract extension looms large over the team’s future.


On July 26, exactly three years after Beal signed his max deal, the Wizards can officially present a three-year, $111 million extension. The team has indicated it plans to give Beal the offer, and both the player’s camp and the franchise have remained in contact throughout the summer. Around the league, however, the extension is not viewed as a done deal, and there is a growing belief that Beal will not remain in Washington for his entire career.

“He’s out of there,” one well-placed person within the NBA predicted.

Here in Las Vegas, where the NBA comes every summer to conduct business, NBA executives pointed to the Wizards’ rebuild as the main reason Beal has a tough decision on the extension.

Washington’s recent moves were praised by several opponents. One Eastern Conference executive referred to re-signing center Thomas Bryant as “huge,” while another described the trade of Dwight Howard as “massive.” Yet the team has signaled it wants to go younger by acquiring seven players with one or fewer years of NBA service this summer, and the departure of restricted free agent Tomas Satoransky, a 27-year-old point guard, was met with puzzlement. A front-office member from the Eastern Conference, seeking clarity about the team’s vision, simply asked, “What are they trying to do?”


Beyond the team’s transactions, many around the league wondered whether the Wizards’ general manager vacancy will affect Beal’s future with the franchise. Beal himself echoed a similar sentiment last month.

Sheppard, who maintains the title of senior vice president of basketball operations, has run the daily business for the past three months. In a statement released days before last month’s draft, Leonsis gave a public vote of confidence in Sheppard’s work.

However, more than 100 days after the Wizards made a change at the top by removing Ernie Grunfeld, the open president of basketball operations position remains a hot topic. One Western Conference senior executive said it would be hard to predict Beal’s future until the team’s leadership is settled.


After receiving the NBA Cares Community Assist Award last month for his work with students in Washington, Bradley Beal expressed interest in an extension but also a desire to see whom the Wizards tab to run the front office. (Chris Pizzello/Invision/AP)
“I’d be naive to say I wouldn’t be [interested in extension talks]," Beal told The Washington Post on June 24. “Washington is where I’ve been the last seven years, going on eight. It would be great to play in one place forever. But at the same time, you want to win and make sure you’re in a position to do so. I’m definitely going to evaluate who we hire as the GM and who we pick up on the team. All that plays a factor.”

If Beal decides to take the extension, then the Wizards’ road to recovery, with Wall potentially missing the 2019-20 season because of Achilles’ rehabilitation, becomes more clear. The Wizards can continue building a team in the image of a young all-star who last season became the first player in franchise history to average at least 25 points, five assists and five rebounds. But if Beal does not take the extension, it will force Washington into the same conundrum that other teams have faced.

When a star player does not sign an extension, it has forecast a breakup — at least in recent NBA history. Even when a potential franchise player agrees to stay, the extension has not always secured his long-term loyalty to the team.

Around the start of the 2018-19 season, rising star Kristaps Porzingis and the New York Knicks could not come to an agreement on a rookie-deal extension. By February, the Knicks had traded him to the Dallas Mavericks.

Last summer, Kyrie Irving declined to sign a four-year, $107 million extension with the Boston Celtics. Ahead of the season, Irving pledged to fans that he would return to Boston by the next free agency period, but June 30, he instead chose the Brooklyn Nets.

And, of course, there are now trade demands even from players who have recently signed contracts. Last July, five-time all-NBA player Paul George inked a four-year, $137 million extension with the Oklahoma City Thunder. When George announced the deal onstage at a house party filled with Thunder fans, he exclaimed: “I’m here to stay!”

Then, only one year into the extension, George requested a trade last week to the Los Angeles Clippers to join Kawhi Leonard. With George’s departure, Oklahoma City was thrust into its first-ever rebuild and traded superstar Russell Westbrook, the former MVP who has spent his entire 11-year career with the franchise, to the Houston Rockets.

[Kawhi Leonard’s power play shook the NBA. But with competitive balance may come chaos.]

Beal has two years and more than $55 million remaining on his contact, but because of his youth and ever-expanding game he has attracted great interest from other teams, according to many league insiders. The Wizards have indicated they will not trade Beal, a declaration that dates from last season when Wall sustained an Achilles’ injury that led to Otto Porter Jr. being traded. While it is well known around the NBA how much the team loves Beal, that hasn’t quelled outside interest.

"Whether or not [Beal] stays there, I really couldn’t tell you,” another Eastern Conference senior executive said, “but I know that there’s a lot of teams out there that would love him.”

It probably would take an organization with young assets or draft picks, movable pieces and salary cap space to pull off a trade for Beal. Teams such as the Denver Nuggets, Miami Heat and Minnesota Timberwolves have some, if not all, of those criteria.

A trade seemed like the furthest thing from Beal’s mind at the NBA Summer League. He squeezed in quality time with the Wizards before jetting to Atlanta to support his AAU team. Inside Thomas & Mack Center on UNLV’s campus, Beal laughed easily and appeared relaxed, not at all stressed about his future.

Still, many within the NBA wonder whether this happy scene will merely stay in Vegas.

“If he doesn’t accept [the extension],” a rival general manager said, “it will be a big blow to Washington.”
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#106 » by DCZards » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:17 am

80sballboy wrote:Here is the Beal article from Candace Buckner. Just shocking.


What do you find shocking about the article? There's nothing that Beal says in it that he hasn't said before.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#107 » by nate33 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:32 am

DCZards wrote:
80sballboy wrote:Here is the Beal article from Candace Buckner. Just shocking.


What do you find shocking about the article? There's nothing that Beal says in it that he hasn't said before.

Yeah. What was shocking?

The only thing I found shocking was the ridiculous statement that Miami and Minnesota have the assets to trade for Beal. I see three teams that could conceivably entice me to trade Beal: OKC, New Orleans, and Denver, and I'm not so sure about Denver.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#108 » by 80sballboy » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:53 am

nate33 wrote:
DCZards wrote:
80sballboy wrote:Here is the Beal article from Candace Buckner. Just shocking.


What do you find shocking about the article? There's nothing that Beal says in it that he hasn't said before.

Yeah. What was shocking?

The only thing I found shocking was the ridiculous statement that Miami and Minnesota have the assets to trade for Beal. I see three teams that could conceivably entice me to trade Beal: OKC, New Orleans, and Denver, and I'm not so sure about Denver.


Called sarcasm.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#109 » by gambitx777 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:48 am

Atlanta probably could Tempt me I mean herro and Bam and Winslow are nice but the heat don't have the picks and they are hard capped. I'd love to get Dlo from gs but to pair with Beal not for him .
nate33 wrote:
DCZards wrote:
80sballboy wrote:Here is the Beal article from Candace Buckner. Just shocking.


What do you find shocking about the article? There's nothing that Beal says in it that he hasn't said before.

Yeah. What was shocking?

The only thing I found shocking was the ridiculous statement that Miami and Minnesota have the assets to trade for Beal. I see three teams that could conceivably entice me to trade Beal: OKC, New Orleans, and Denver, and I'm not so sure about Denver.


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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#110 » by prime1time » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:10 am

Nothing in the article is shocking. Either Brad is with us or he's not and we trade him. We had a chance to build something and it failed miserably. So Brad doesn't owe us anything. But they have to figure everything out. Ownership and management made so many bad decisions during his tenure here that it would be understandable if he wants to leave. If he doesn't accept the extension I would think about trading him before the season even starts.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#111 » by MalagaBulls » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:39 am

Bulls fan in peace. We have pieces that could be discussed in a Beal trade. I would start with Zach LaVine & Kris Dunn. Dunn expires this year and LaVine has 3 years left. We have been trade partners with OP coming over & then Sato in a S&T. How would that fly as the salaries match?
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#112 » by payitforward » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:30 am

Well I hope you are not asking how Lavine & Dunn for Beal would fly. If you want a good player, you have to give good players. Unfortunately, at present you don't have many of those. The best guys you have you are certainly not going to want to trade (viz. Markkanen).

Hey, I'm from Chicago! I want the Bulls to be a good team. But, you'll have to do it through the draft. Start by firing your FO!! :)
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#113 » by MalagaBulls » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:39 am

payitforward wrote:Well I hope you are not asking how Lavine & Dunn for Beal would fly. If you want a good player, you have to give good players. Unfortunately, at present you don't have many of those. The best guys you have you are certainly not going to want to trade (viz. Markkanen).

Hey, I'm from Chicago! I want the Bulls to be a good team. But, you'll have to do it through the draft. Start by firing your FO!! :)
Well that was the base package with possibly a 1st thrown in. I mean last year de didtake on OP's salary in that trade. I think at the time Wash was just looking at salary relief. LaVine is an All Star and should improve on help and onball D this year. On O he is just sweet and I expect his 3 pt% & TS% to improve. Dunn with a change of scenery could blossom into a decent PG.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#114 » by nate33 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:01 pm

MalagaBulls wrote:Bulls fan in peace. We have pieces that could be discussed in a Beal trade. I would start with Zach LaVine & Kris Dunn. Dunn expires this year and LaVine has 3 years left. We have been trade partners with OP coming over & then Sato in a S&T. How would that fly as the salaries match?

Yeah, you're not close. You seem to be operating under the assumption that Beal is merely a minor upgrade over LaVine. Beal is one of the 15 best players in the league, and at age 26, he is likely to move up those ranks in the next few years. The Wizards would be looking for something much closer to what OKC got for Paul George or what New Orleans got for Davis - maybe 75% of what they got.

The point of trading for Beal is to contend after receiving him. Chicago doesn't have the asset base to do this. They would need to trade away their best assets to get Beal, at which point they wouldn't be a contender. Only teams like New Orleans, OKC and Denver have the assets to get Beal while having enough talent to win after making the trade.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#115 » by Rafael122 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:07 pm

The whole Beal situation is interesting. Not sure where I read this, either here or on Twitter, but even if Beal doesn't make All NBA next season, if he signs the 3 year extension, he's eligible for the 10 year max once that contract ends. Either way he gets his money.

Beal doesn't need to tell the organization if he's staying long term or not, but he could do management a solid by letting them know of his intentions sooner rather than later. If he decides to hold off until next offseason, the packages we would get would be less enticing b/c he may not agree to an extension to the team he's being traded to anyway.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#116 » by Ruzious » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:13 pm

MalagaBulls wrote:
payitforward wrote:Well I hope you are not asking how Lavine & Dunn for Beal would fly. If you want a good player, you have to give good players. Unfortunately, at present you don't have many of those. The best guys you have you are certainly not going to want to trade (viz. Markkanen).

Hey, I'm from Chicago! I want the Bulls to be a good team. But, you'll have to do it through the draft. Start by firing your FO!! :)
Well that was the base package with possibly a 1st thrown in. I mean last year de didtake on OP's salary in that trade. I think at the time Wash was just looking at salary relief. LaVine is an All Star and should improve on help and onball D this year. On O he is just sweet and I expect his 3 pt% & TS% to improve. Dunn with a change of scenery could blossom into a decent PG.

I'm a Lavine fan, and he's a start, but it'll also take a bunch of firsts and options to exchange firsts. Dunn has next to no trade value.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#117 » by Rafael122 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:38 pm

Ruzious wrote:
MalagaBulls wrote:
payitforward wrote:Well I hope you are not asking how Lavine & Dunn for Beal would fly. If you want a good player, you have to give good players. Unfortunately, at present you don't have many of those. The best guys you have you are certainly not going to want to trade (viz. Markkanen).

Hey, I'm from Chicago! I want the Bulls to be a good team. But, you'll have to do it through the draft. Start by firing your FO!! :)
Well that was the base package with possibly a 1st thrown in. I mean last year de didtake on OP's salary in that trade. I think at the time Wash was just looking at salary relief. LaVine is an All Star and should improve on help and onball D this year. On O he is just sweet and I expect his 3 pt% & TS% to improve. Dunn with a change of scenery could blossom into a decent PG.

I'm a Lavine fan, and he's a start, but it'll also take a bunch of firsts and options to exchange firsts. Dunn has next to no trade value.


And we're not talking lottery protected for 3 years and then turns into 2 seconds either. If the Bulls trade for Beal, they're probably a near lock for the playoffs so as little protections as possible.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#118 » by payitforward » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:38 pm

nate33 wrote:
MalagaBulls wrote:Bulls fan in peace. We have pieces that could be discussed in a Beal trade. I would start with Zach LaVine & Kris Dunn. Dunn expires this year and LaVine has 3 years left. We have been trade partners with OP coming over & then Sato in a S&T. How would that fly as the salaries match?

Yeah, you're not close. You seem to be operating under the assumption that Beal is merely a minor upgrade over LaVine. Beal is one of the 15 best players in the league, and at age 26, he is likely to move up those ranks in the next few years. The Wizards would be looking for something much closer to what OKC got for Paul George or what New Orleans got for Davis - maybe 75% of what they got.

The point of trading for Beal is to contend after receiving him. Chicago doesn't have the asset base to do this. They would need to trade away their best assets to get Beal, at which point they wouldn't be a contender. Only teams like New Orleans, OKC and Denver have the assets to get Beal while having enough talent to win after making the trade.

I don't think Brad is in the top 15 players in the league. Then again, I don't think Zach Lavine is even a slightly above average SG. In both cases the over-value seems to come from their being high-scoring players. As to Kriss Dunn, he's a bad player. Period.

Plus, nate is right that a sensible trade for Brad would make no sense for the Bulls.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#119 » by Ruzious » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:40 pm

nate33 wrote:
DCZards wrote:
80sballboy wrote:Here is the Beal article from Candace Buckner. Just shocking.


What do you find shocking about the article? There's nothing that Beal says in it that he hasn't said before.

Yeah. What was shocking?

The only thing I found shocking was the ridiculous statement that Miami and Minnesota have the assets to trade for Beal. I see three teams that could conceivably entice me to trade Beal: OKC, New Orleans, and Denver, and I'm not so sure about Denver.

I wonder if Indiana's an option. They acquired Brogdon and Lamb this offseason and still have Oladipo expected back around the all-star break. Brogdon's real good, but he's not in Beal's class. They'd probably love to have a Dipo/Beal backcourt - which would make Brogdon available. If Goga looks like really good as a rookie, maybe we consider Brogdon and Goga plus ? for Beal - around mid-season or next offseason? Or maybe they make Dipo available?
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#120 » by Jamaaliver » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:09 pm





It's unfortunate you guys couldn't have gained some clarity on the Beal situation pre-draft.

There were a number of more concrete opportunities to maximize Beal's trade value earlier; waiting has only complicated any trade talks.



This is a scenario that's been forecast for at least a year now...if not longer. The day Wall went down with that injury, efforts to get max value for Beal should have been in the works.

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