Moderators: LyricalRico, nate33, montestewart
tontoz wrote:Uhh...no. It is excessive but not crazy. Nobody is going to the hospital because they wipe down packages with Chlorox.
DCZards wrote:tontoz wrote:Uhh...no. It is excessive but not crazy. Nobody is going to the hospital because they wipe down packages with Chlorox.
Nate thinks it’s alright for people to refuse to be vaccinated, which can literally save lives, but is critical of people who wear masks to avoid catching the virus. Now that’s crazy.
An Ohio man has to get the COVID-19 vaccine as a condition of his probation, according to a Hamilton County judge.
Common Pleas Court Judge Christopher Wagner ordered 21-year-old Brandon Rutherford to get the shot when he appeared for sentencing Wednesday for a drug conviction. Rutherford was wearing a face mask when he stood in the Cincinnati courtroom, WCPO reported.
A few thoughts on COVID in Georgia from a Master of Public Health, Physician on the COVID wards, and an advocate for smaller Government and individual freedoms. This is not a post advocating one way or another, just a few observations and thoughts.
1) Over half of my patient list is filled with COVID patients. All are unvaccinated and overweight. They really have very few other things wrong with them, and most are relatively young. 20's-60's.
2) Several who are deteriorating (O2 saturation in mid 80's maxed out of O2) are asking for experimental oral treatments for COVID. When asked why they didn't get the vaccine they say "because it's experimental". This logic doesn't make sense.
3) The Government cannot and should not mandate a vaccine that is not approved by the FDA. Nor will they. This is an individual's choice, but regardless of lasting efficacy or breakthrough cases... the vaccines appear to work. (I am not a virologist or vaccine scientist, just my observation)
4) There will always be breakthrough cases. There will always be 100 year old's who smoke and don't get cancer. There will always be stage 4 pancreatic cancer patients who beat the disease. There will always be brain dead patients who come back. These are not the norm. This really is a numbers game and proper stats should be used.
5) I get it. We want our kids free and playing in the sun. We want our kids to have the human facial connection. I have three of them myself. However, COVID destroys lungs. It just tears them apart. How do we know in 30 years when our kids grow up they won't be terribly impacted by lung scaring and fibrosis because they caught a mild form of the disease when they were 5? We have no idea. On the converse - how do we know our kids won't grow up and have terrible heart disease because of a vaccine they got when they were 10? We don't. We have no idea. But based on science and the way the vaccine works, this option is far less likely.
6) Do masks help? Maybe. We're talking about a viral particle smaller than any other living thing on earth. I personally doubt they help tremendously but they absolutely don't hurt. If anything, they help people with covid stop the spread rather than preventing healthy people from getting it. With asymptomatic cases, this is a good thing. With our kids, do we want to risk their future lung capacity?
7) COVID was severely politicized and that created a lot of distrust in the public. I get it, and it's unfortunate. However COVID is real and our local hospitals are SLAMMED. It is a terrible time to get sick with any other ailment.
Our first class in my public health degree discussed individual freedoms versus the health of the greater good. What came of that is this: there is no right answer. What I do know is that we need to stop bickering both sides. If you want to take a calculated risk, that’s fine, but not everyone’s with you. On the converse, if you’re risk averse that’s fine, but you can’t stifle others individual right to choice.
Respect others. Respect local business laws. Try and do your part. Don’t be a jerk one way or another. We’re absolutely in a pandemic and the political social aspect is far from helping. The delta variant will rip through our entire state’s population one way or another. It’s up to you how you want to prepare.
4 Broward educators with COVID die within 2 days as school year nears.
FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. – Three Broward County teachers and an educational assistant died within 36 hours this week after contracting COVID-19, according to the teachers’ union.
Broward Teachers Union President Anna Fusco also told ABC News that another teacher’s assistant is hospitalized with the virus.
It comes as teachers returned to schools this week to prepare for the first day of classes next Wednesday.
“And Florida and Texas alone have accounted for nearly 40% of new hospitalizations across the country.”
Kanyewest wrote:As of yesterday Florida is accounting for just under 19 percent of the new daily cases. The United States has a 7-day moving average of 113,357 new cases- Florida's average is 21,000. They are also accounting for nearly the same percentage of hospitilization
White House COVID-19 Response Coordinator Jeff Zients said Thursday.“And Florida and Texas alone have accounted for nearly 40% of new hospitalizations across the country.”
https://www.local10.com/news/local/2021/08/12/florida-averaging-over-21000-new-covid-19-cases-per-day/
DCZards wrote:Florida & Texas: Two states with idiot governors.
nate33 wrote:DCZards wrote:Florida & Texas: Two states with idiot governors.
The national average two-dose vaccination rate for those over 65 is 80.6%
Florida's vaccination rate for those over 65 is 85.0%
The national average Covid death rate for the 50-64 age group is 128 per 100,000
The Florida average Covid death rate for the 50-64 age group is 132 per 100,000
The national average Covid death rate for the 65+ age group is 933 per 100,000
The Florida average Covid death rate for the 65+ age group is 702 per 100,000
Florida did this while also being the most open economy in the country.
Rand McNally wrote:
More children are being treated in Texas hospitals for COVID-19 than ever before. But there’s a second factor that is putting pediatric hospitals on the path to being overwhelmed: an unseasonable outbreak of respiratory syncytial virus, or RSV, a highly contagious virus that can require hospitalization mostly among children 5 years and younger and especially infants.
During the last year, RSV was largely dormant, which experts believe was due to people masking up during the pandemic. Now, in just the last several weeks, thousands of Texas children have tested positive for the virus.
Within Texas Children’s, more than 45 children were hospitalized with COVID-19 on Wednesday, and hospital staff members have diagnosed over 1,600 cases of RSV.
Meanwhile, adult hospitals are facing a crisis of their own, as rising numbers of COVID-19 patients fill intensive care units across the state. Staff shortages are compounding the problem as more adults — the vast majority of them unvaccinated — are being hospitalized with the delta variant. In the most recent federal numbers reported last week, 53 hospitals in Texas had completely run out of beds in intensive care units; the situation has likely worsened since then.
Rand McNally wrote:From the same article nate333 quotes:Meanwhile, adult hospitals are facing a crisis of their own, as rising numbers of COVID-19 patients fill intensive care units across the state. Staff shortages are compounding the problem as more adults — the vast majority of them unvaccinated — are being hospitalized with the delta variant. In the most recent federal numbers reported last week, 53 hospitals in Texas had completely run out of beds in intensive care units; the situation has likely worsened since then.
There is, of course, no way one can seriously argue that COVID-19 is not a driving force in the stress on the health care system. There is no way one can argue that low vaccination rates do not drive COVID cases and severity of those cases. Someone making the "personal choice" to not get vaccinated is callously putting the lives of others -- including innocent children -- at risk, unless that person is staying inside or away from other people entirely.
We have 17 pending transfers. Sending people to Galveston AGAIN! One of my patients has been here all day with appendicitis but I don't have a bed for him.
Why can't these mo fos just get a vaccine.
We have 17 pending transfers. Sending people to Galveston AGAIN! One of my patients has been here all day with appendicitis but I don't have a bed for him.
Why can't these mo fos just get a vaccine.
DCZards wrote:We have 17 pending transfers. Sending people to Galveston AGAIN! One of my patients has been here all day with appendicitis but I don't have a bed for him.
Why can't these mo fos just get a vaccine.
It infuriates me that many of the unvaccinated have the audacity to say they’re making a “personal decision” that doesn’t affect anyone else. Well, what about the tens of thousands of doctors, nurses and first responders who in some places are being absolutely slammed by the growing numbers of unvaccinated who are getting sick to the point that they need hospitalization? What about those with other health issues who can’t get the care they need because the unvaccinated are tying up beds and personnel?
I sorta wish these healthcare providers could make the “personal decision” to not care for those who have made the “personal decision” not to get vaccinated.
Zonkerbl wrote:A real economist can correct me...
Kanyewest wrote:I saw someone online who lived in St Louis complaining about the fact that more than half of their city has received the vaccination but now the hospitals are filling up as rural counties do not have the capacity to keep up with the hospitals.
We also see states like Florida requesting ventilators from the Federal government. Luckily they are available but if every state was open like Florida, then it could be even worse https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/11/politics/florida-ventilators-desantis/index.html
In Texas 96% of ICU beds are filled according to CBSNews
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-covid-surge-icu-beds/
There was a guy in North Carolina seemed to imply that the unvaccinated should not seek out hospital care given that his wife who receiving cancer treatment had to leave early. Obviously, one cannot leave thsee people to die but the unvaccinated are creating problems for others.
dckingsfan wrote:DCZards wrote:We have 17 pending transfers. Sending people to Galveston AGAIN! One of my patients has been here all day with appendicitis but I don't have a bed for him.
Why can't these mo fos just get a vaccine.
It infuriates me that many of the unvaccinated have the audacity to say they’re making a “personal decision” that doesn’t affect anyone else. Well, what about the tens of thousands of doctors, nurses and first responders who in some places are being absolutely slammed by the growing numbers of unvaccinated who are getting sick to the point that they need hospitalization? What about those with other health issues who can’t get the care they need because the unvaccinated are tying up beds and personnel?
I sorta wish these healthcare providers could make the “personal decision” to not care for those who have made the “personal decision” not to get vaccinated.
The economic term for this is externality. I think externality could also be applied here in terms of both costs that the unvaccinated pass along to the vaccinated but also for the lack of services then available to the vaccinated.Zonkerbl wrote:A real economist can correct me...
Last spring, Israel’s remarkably swift vaccination campaign was seen as a global model. Coronavirus infections plummeted, an electronic pass allowed the vaccinated to attend indoor concerts and sporting events, and distancing rules and mask mandates were eventually scrapped. Israel offered the world a hopeful glimpse of the way out of the pandemic.
No longer.
A fourth wave of infections is rapidly approaching the levels of Israel’s worst days of the pandemic last winter. The daily rate of confirmed new virus cases has more than doubled in the last two weeks, making Israel a rising hot spot on the international charts.
The vaccine is still believed to help prevent severe illness in those who do become infected, though some Israeli data suggests the possibility of an increased risk of severe disease among those who received early vaccinations. The number of deaths in Israel has climbed in the past month as the infection rate increased.
After many days of zero Covid deaths in June, at least 230 Israelis have died so far this month.
Unlike previous epicenters of infection in Israel’s crowded, less-vaccinated ultra-Orthodox communities, this scourge primarily took hold in well-vaccinated, middle-class suburbs.
