JaVale McGee

[ptown]

imo, he's more of either a Tyson Chandler or Marcus Camby. He's got the shot blocking of Chandler and the mid range J of Camby. I can't wait to actually see him in summer league along with N1, DMac, and Pech.

When I watched the highlights, I definitely got a Tyson Chandler/Camby vibe in terms of lanky athleticism. The only thing is, both of those players are strong defenders, and McGee is apparently a very poor man defender at the moment. Hopefully it's something that can be fixed. The guy looks like he has all the athletic tools he needs to be successful in the league.

Speaking of Chandler, I just want to point out how big/athletic McGee is. As somone pointed out earlier, his standing reach is 9'6.5", while Chandler's is 9'2". Chandler has a 33.5" vertical while McGee has a 32.5" vertical. So if they both jumped to block a shot McGee would be 3.5" higher and that is a big difference in the NBA game. Now of course, things like anticipation, timing, and ability to hold your position go into blocked shots, but on a purely athletic level, McGee has a big edge over alot of people. McGee even has a standing reach advantage over Shaq whose reach is 9'5" (now Shaq has/had monsterous size and a 36" vertical which is just ridiculous). Yeah Haywood's standing reach of 9'5.5" is slightly higher than Shaq's, but his vert is only 28.5", which is 7.5" lower than Shaq's and 4" lower than McGee's. One more thing to point out. McGee weighed in at 241 (up from 228 after college) and his body fat is 5.3 so at least what little size he has is muscle.

Looking forward to seeing what he does in summer league.

[BRIGGS]

I think you guys got an absolute steal of a pick. If Javale stayed in school--he would ve been a top 5 pick next year. He's very skilled very athletic for his size long arms and he has the triple threat package scoring rebounding nd blocking shots. I saw him play a couple of times and was very impressed with him. He's late to development--hes only played like 4 -5years of organized ball and he had a late growth spurt. If they keep a development plan in place where he continues to get bigger and stronger[because he does have wide shoulders] I think he can easily weigh 260 pounds when he fills out. If his skill sets continue--you have one heckuva players at 18.

[WizarDynasty]

i think the issue is what will happen to mcgee once he starts putting on weight. As players start to bulk and add weight, many times they lose agility and jumping explosiveness. KFB has excellent hops and put on 40lbs, no hops at all. The key with this kid is to see if he keps his agility and conditioning with added weight. If weight is added to a body in an unnatural weight, what usually happens is person become less athletic. Another perfect example is etan thomas. He added about 20 lbs to take him 265 and lost all of his agility to guard the pick and roll..became really slow footed because he had so much top weight to his body and didn't increase his leg strength in order to account for the extra weight he was dragging on his upper body. any added weight to a basketball players body means that his legs have to get even stronger for him to do what he was able to do at lighter weight. Very hard for a player to keep his agility with added weight unless he has coach that pushes him 100 percent day and night. Added weight makes it more difficult to move with agility and also can result in joint injuries since your joints are use to extra force they have to endure for your body to make the same exact movements at lighter. But there is no way Javale is going to be anything in the nba doesn't increase his core power..squats, but if you doesn't have a world class agility trainer, he will over train and loose the agility advantage that he now possess with his pivot spints and upper body coordination in the post. He is also going to lose his shooting touch if over trains his upper body. But he definitely has to get his bench press to at 250 if he plans on defending centers in the post because that' the average weight of an nba center. And if he can hold off at least 250 lbs of force against him on nightly basis then he is toast on defense.
hte problem is, once he bulks up his upper body, will he have the leg power to do the moves that he is capable of now and he has to bulk up his upper body. ONce his chest expands, his shooting percentage is probably going to significantly because he will lose alot of the fluid motion that he has. So he is going to be a big risk. the biggest risk factor with him is, how much athleticism will he have once he adds 30lbs of muscles and will his body be able to move the same way it does now. will his vertical decrease because no matter how high a person can jump, if you strap 20 lbs of extra weight, they won't jump as high. Will Javale jump higher with extra weight. Most people can't but maybe he is the exception. Certainly shaq was a phenom,being able to carry 300 lbs and still jump that high, but he has always had tremendously big legs and was agile. JV looks like his legs seem pretty skinny.
So again question is, will he lose alot of his fluidity when he bulks up to 260. Right now it appears that he is at his optimal playing weight in order for him to retain his athleticism. Once had adds weight, will his athleticism drop or remain the same. I think an important component is to look at his father. Whatever his fathers build, that will probably be his build and if you force his body to add more weight than is natural, he may be permanently damage. At the same time, the strenght he shows now will make him a life long bench player because he can't hold his possession against any player with power because he doesn't can't hold absorb body contact without giving up space. The problem is, once he does get the strength to absorb body contact without giving up space, will he have lost all of fluid motion and athleticism and be another RoY HIBBERT>

the good thing ist aht he can catch passes up high and in one motion with ball the high above his head take a high percentage shot. Haywood normally has to bring the ball down to his waist just to get control of it which allows guards to knock it away. Mcgee also has a quick release and a turn around jay. I just fear that most of athlecism will be gone once he bulks up to 265 to 270 in order to effectively play center making this a pretty wasted pick.
I say his best form his hopefully a tim duncan body type. But time duncan didn't build his body mass through weight training, he built it up by swimming which is why he still retain most of his body coordination. But I honestly don't know what kind of strength and conditioning a bigman can undergo that will allow him to maintain his athleticism speed and jumping ability and at the same time, increase his body weight. I guess that's where world class trainers come in but wizards seem to not really care about these aspects of player physical development. OBviousl JV being young has no idea how easy it will be for him to lose what fluidity he has until its too late.

[Ruzious]

Not sure where you got your info, WD. Kwame lost his bounce after he got a serious foot injury and didn't work real hard to rehab it. Etan was huge coming out of college. I really doubt he was only 240. And he also had a foot injury that kept him out of his entire rookie year. Tim Duncan's gained over 30 lbs since college, and he's done fine. Shaq gained a lot more than that. Every 20 year old big is going to gain weight. As long as he keeps his body fat % down and doesn't get injured, it's a good thing.

[fishercob]

Probably the same place he got his theory correlating bowleggedness to defensive prowess.

[Kanyewest]

Maybe Kwame had his foot injury because of the added weight.

[WizBiz]

We need to start thinking of a handle for JaVale McGee. I think he's here to stay.
How about:
JM
JVMG
Java

your ideas?

How about JV McGee? I know it's not that much shorter than his real name, but I think it has a nice ring to it.

[nate33]

i think the issue is what will happen to mcgee once he starts putting on weight. As players start to bulk and add weight, many times they lose agility and jumping explosiveness. KFB has excellent hops and put on 40lbs, no hops at all. The key with this kid is to see if he keps his agility and conditioning with added weight. If weight is added to a body in an unnatural weight, what usually happens is person become less athletic. Another perfect example is etan thomas. He added about 20 lbs to take him 265 and lost all of his agility to guard the pick and roll..became really slow footed because he had so much top weight to his body and didn't increase his leg strength in order to account for the extra weight he was dragging on his upper body. any added weight to a basketball players body means that his legs have to get even stronger for him to do what he was able to do at lighter weight. Very hard for a player to keep his agility with added weight unless he has coach that pushes him 100 percent day and night. Added weight makes it more difficult to move with agility and also can result in joint injuries since your joints are use to extra force they have to endure for your body to make the same exact movements at lighter. But there is no way Javale is going to be anything in the nba doesn't increase his core power..squats, but if you doesn't have a world class agility trainer, he will over train and loose the agility advantage that he now possess with his pivot spints and upper body coordination in the post. He is also going to lose his shooting touch if over trains his upper body. But he definitely has to get his bench press to at 250 if he plans on defending centers in the post because that' the average weight of an nba center. And if he can hold off at least 250 lbs of force against him on nightly basis then he is toast on defense.
hte problem is, once he bulks up his upper body, will he have the leg power to do the moves that he is capable of now and he has to bulk up his upper body. ONce his chest expands, his shooting percentage is probably going to significantly because he will lose alot of the fluid motion that he has. So he is going to be a big risk. the biggest risk factor with him is, how much athleticism will he have once he adds 30lbs of muscles and will his body be able to move the same way it does now. will his vertical decrease because no matter how high a person can jump, if you strap 20 lbs of extra weight, they won't jump as high. Will Javale jump higher with extra weight. Most people can't but maybe he is the exception. Certainly shaq was a phenom,being able to carry 300 lbs and still jump that high, but he has always had tremendously big legs and was agile. JV looks like his legs seem pretty skinny.
So again question is, will he lose alot of his fluidity when he bulks up to 260. Right now it appears that he is at his optimal playing weight in order for him to retain his athleticism. Once had adds weight, will his athleticism drop or remain the same. I think an important component is to look at his father. Whatever his fathers build, that will probably be his build and if you force his body to add more weight than is natural, he may be permanently damage. At the same time, the strenght he shows now will make him a life long bench player because he can't hold his possession against any player with power because he doesn't can't hold absorb body contact without giving up space. The problem is, once he does get the strength to absorb body contact without giving up space, will he have lost all of fluid motion and athleticism and be another RoY HIBBERT>

the good thing ist aht he can catch passes up high and in one motion with ball the high above his head take a high percentage shot. Haywood normally has to bring the ball down to his waist just to get control of it which allows guards to knock it away. Mcgee also has a quick release and a turn around jay. I just fear that most of athlecism will be gone once he bulks up to 265 to 270 in order to effectively play center making this a pretty wasted pick.
I say his best form his hopefully a tim duncan body type. But time duncan didn't build his body mass through weight training, he built it up by swimming which is why he still retain most of his body coordination. But I honestly don't know what kind of strength and conditioning a bigman can undergo that will allow him to maintain his athleticism speed and jumping ability and at the same time, increase his body weight. I guess that's where world class trainers come in but wizards seem to not really care about these aspects of player physical development. OBviousl JV being young has no idea how easy it will be for him to lose what fluidity he has until its too late.

In other words: "McGee might lose some athleticism as he puts on bulk."

Brevity is the soul of wit.

I'm not particularly worried. McGee will have access to high quality trainers. He'll add the bulk with only a minimal loss of his vertical leap. Most NBA players do. The real question is whether or not he can soak up the basketball fundamentals that he still lacks. By all accounts, he's an atrocious man-to-man defender and he is statistically an unimpressive rebounder. I'm concerned about his mental development, not his physical development.

[WizarDynasty]

Brevity is the soul of wit.

I'm not particularly worried. McGee will have access to high quality trainers. He'll add the bulk with only a minimal loss of his vertical leap. Most NBA players do. The real question is whether or not he can soak up the basketball fundamentals that he still lacks. By all accounts, he's an atrocious man-to-man defender and he is statistically an unimpressive rebounder. I'm concerned about his mental development, not his physical development.

Lack of detail reveals lack of insight.

I would be far more worried about his lack of muscle mass in the most important regions for a center, normally the back and lower body. He can't be a good defender without strength to absorb contact on defense and maintain his position. Its takes a certain amount of insight to make the connection between ability to absorb contact and still maintain your defensive space and "man to man defense which has nothing to do with mental." So here's the logic, if you can't absorb body contact and still maintain your defensive space...then you can't play man to man defense in the post. If you can't maintain your balance and position against contact in the post...ok I shouldn't have to explain that anymore. NO amount of mental instructions is going to help JV absorb physical contact and maintain his position and balance if he doesn't have the strength to do it. Conversation over on this point. Secondly, he has been under professional instruction from his mother, who was a professional post player in addition to coaches so his aptitude for new basketball concepts is more than likely higher than a player who hasn't been drilled with basketball concepts all of his life. NOt only that but he has actually organized basketball all of his life..he isn't some stiff who decide to play basketball because he was tall, his mother already knew what he would become before he could walk. So his 19 years of life his mother has been translating her professional experience of playing in the post for college and wnba to her son...before he blossomed. She wasn't sure he was going to be a post player so she prepared him has a guard but because she played teh post herself..she had personal experience of what phsyical demands would be expected of him. i think the key with him is that he is a late bloomer but unlike KFB..he has large hands, he's been given high level basketball instruction all his life and he was forced to develop his basketball skills even if he didn't want to by his mother...unlike KFB he has a passion for the game...far larger wingspan..far better shooting touch..far better dribble skills. However..his strength remains the question mark. Will he turn into a stiff with 40lbs of new muscle that is necessary for him to play in the post. ability to absorb basketball concepts should be the least of your worries. and finally, in depth insight and observing his basketball highlight would show that he can't maintain his position due to lack of strength not fundamentals. Finally you would see that he only had 7 bench presses. If you cant maintain your defensive position, or use our strength and agility to gain a rebounding advantage..then you are liability on defense at the center spot. He has length which can't be taught, but no one knows if he will turn into a stiff with added muscle mass. It takes this level of detail create thinking insight point for others to evolve teh discussion.
Now the his saving grace is that he has blatche and opec in practice to take some of the heat off of him. When KFB came to wiz, ate him up in the post in practice and there was no one with a similar frame for him to guard. He would basically get man handled by etan and BH each practice and he felt he had to get his weight up in order to battle in practice. the dominoe effect was that he lost his explosive leaping ability to elevate. He obviously suffered from small hands, and no terrible basketball mentors..he had jordan..JV has pamela. But JV will be able to go against comparable weak post players in practice with blatche and opec and not have to suffer to physical abuse of going up daily against haywood and etan.

[nate33]

You misunderstand.

I don't disagree with you that McGee has to put on bulk and core strength, and has to do so with a minimal loss of athleticism. I just don't think that's all that difficult of a task to accomplish. Most young bigs start out weak and fill out as they mature, provided they have the initial frame (which McGee does). I consider it a given that McGee will eventually fill out. Physically, he'll develop the frame of a legit NBA center.

The question is whether or not he'll learn the mental aspects of the game. I'm a little concerned that his man to man defensive reputation is so bad despite playing against 6'-8" tall 21-year-olds in a moderately weak conference. The guy isn't a toothpick. He's pretty solid for a 21-year-old 7-footer. He's bigger and stronger than, say, Marcus Camby was coming out of college. You would think a guy with McGee's pedigree and his mother's tutelage would be a better defensive player. The fact that he isn't leads me to believe that he is lacking in the basketball IQ department.

[WizarDynasty]

i wouldn't worry about that. He is going to be playing behind one of the best defensive centers in the league. i think you forgot that point. His only problem again, is when he fills out will he be a roy hibbert stiff.

[Pollinator]

There are a lot of "ifs" with this pick, but the one I'm most worried about is the same one that took down Andray Blatche, Pecherov, Kwame Brown, every single one of the big 3, etc, and that is injury. This kid has tremendous physical talent and basketball genes, he's a skilled player, his father was a 6-8 235 lb power forward which means that he will bulk up. Yes, his work ethic and his willingness to play physical will be important, but number one he has to stay healthy, he has to stay on the court, and far away from the Wiz medical team and their knives. If he is durable, he has the gifts to be a very productive player and a lot of the other questions will take care of themselves.

[doclinkin]

You misunderstand.

I don't disagree with you that McGee has to put on bulk and core strength, and has to do so with a minimal loss of athleticism. I just don't think that's all that difficult of a task to accomplish. Most young bigs start out weak and fill out as they mature, provided they have the initial frame (which McGee does). I consider it a given that McGee will eventually fill out. Physically, he'll develop the frame of a legit NBA center.

The question is whether or not he'll learn the mental aspects of the game. I'm a little concerned that his man to man defensive reputation is so bad despite playing against 6'-8" tall 21-year-olds in a moderately weak conference. The guy isn't a toothpick. He's pretty solid for a 21-year-old 7-footer. He's bigger and stronger than, say, Marcus Camby was coming out of college. You would think a guy with McGee's pedigree and his mother's tutelage would be a better defensive player. The fact that he isn't leads me to believe that he is lacking in the basketball IQ department.

Not really his fault, his mother raised him as a perimeter player, since bigs with outside skills attract the most attention and make the most money. He played guard early on in high school. When he was recruited to Nevada (then only ~6'9"-ish barefoot) they envisioned him as a Small Forward. He was 6'10" and _210_ lbs by freshman year, pretty light for the height.

He's added a couple inches since then of course, and just started to fill out with muscle, he hasn't learned to bang because he's never been big enough 'til this year. Fact is, whether or not he's still growing (!...) athletically he's still developing a ton. Between freshman year and this year he added 3 and a half inches to his vertical jump. Anyone who's ever worked on their ups will appreciate that's a real 'leap' in ups. So to speak.

I suspect if he gets a few rounds in Big Man camps and starts packing on that adult weight he'll learn to enjoy throwing his size around. He definitely get gleeful when he smacks the helloutta somebodies shot.

The knock on him in Nevada was that he didn't bring the focus at both ends, jogged back on defense, sprinted on offense. Again, I fully expect Randy Ayers to cure him of that habit. The other deal is that he's emotional, Wolfpack fans cite an incident where he kicked a ball into the stands, literally crying because a call didn't go his way. And that he tended to have crappy body language when refs would whistle him for fouls, etc. Eh, whatever, so he was immature, that happens with kids.

The biggest knock you hear (other than the perimeter play vs. banging thing) is that his mother is too outspoken and involved in his life. Fact is I'd hope she'd adopt a guy like Andray Blatche too, maybe keep him out of trouble. Having grown up around strong athletic women (Cynthis Cooper was his basketball rolemodel as a kid) it's tough to picture him trolling the DC steets looking to purchase the poontang. More likely he'll be dating one of the Washington Mystics in a couple years.

So. Point being, yeah, he's still developing. I worry less that he'll lose athleticism by putting on a shirt of muscle, because the fact is he's never gonna lose that remarkable length either way. But the truth is he's probably doomed one way or the other because he's notably not bowlegged, so there's clearly no hope.

[WizarDynasty]

You misunderstand.

I don't disagree with you that McGee has to put on bulk and core strength, and has to do so with a minimal loss of athleticism. I just don't think that's all that difficult of a task to accomplish. Most young bigs start out weak and fill out as they mature, provided they have the initial frame (which McGee does). I consider it a given that McGee will eventually fill out. Physically, he'll develop the frame of a legit NBA center.

The question is whether or not he'll learn the mental aspects of the game. I'm a little concerned that his man to man defensive reputation is so bad despite playing against 6'-8" tall 21-year-olds in a moderately weak conference. The guy isn't a toothpick. He's pretty solid for a 21-year-old 7-footer. He's bigger and stronger than, say, Marcus Camby was coming out of college. You would think a guy with McGee's pedigree and his mother's tutelage would be a better defensive player. The fact that he isn't leads me to believe that he is lacking in the basketball IQ department.

Not really his fault, his mother raised him as a perimeter player, since bigs with outside skills attract the most attention and make the most money. He played guard early on in high school. When he was recruited to Nevada (then only ~6'9"-ish barefoot) they envisioned him as a Small Forward. He was 6'10" and _210_ lbs by freshman year, pretty light for the height.

He's added a couple inches since then of course, and just started to fill out with muscle, he hasn't learned to bang because he's never been big enough 'til this year. Fact is, whether or not he's still growing (!...) athletically he's still developing a ton. Between freshman year and this year he added 3 and a half inches to his vertical jump. Anyone who's ever worked on their ups will appreciate that's a real 'leap' in ups. So to speak.

I suspect if he gets a few rounds in Big Man camps and starts packing on that adult weight he'll learn to enjoy throwing his size around. He definitely get gleeful when he smacks the helloutta somebodies shot.

The knock on him in Nevada was that he didn't bring the focus at both ends, jogged back on defense, sprinted on offense. Again, I fully expect Randy Ayers to cure him of that habit. The other deal is that he's emotional, Wolfpack fans cite an incident where he kicked a ball into the stands, literally crying because a call didn't go his way. And that he tended to have crappy body language when refs would whistle him for fouls, etc. Eh, whatever, so he was immature, that happens with kids.

The biggest knock you hear (other than the perimeter play vs. banging thing) is that his mother is too outspoken and involved in his life. Fact is I'd hope she'd adopt a guy like Andray Blatche too, maybe keep him out of trouble. Having grown up around strong athletic women (Cynthis Cooper was his basketball rolemodel as a kid) it's tough to picture him trolling the DC steets looking to purchase the poontang. More likely he'll be dating one of the Washington Mystics in a couple years.

So. Point being, yeah, he's still developing. I worry less that he'll lose athleticism by putting on a shirt of muscle, because the fact is he's never gonna lose that remarkable length either way. But the truth is he's probably doomed one way or the other because he's notably not bowlegged, so there's clearly no hope.

Yeah he appears to have above average lateral acceleration when defending the pic and roll so apparently so apparently his legs are.

[doclinkin]

So. Point being, yeah, he's still developing. I worry less that he'll lose athleticism by putting on a shirt of muscle, because the fact is he's never gonna lose that remarkable length either way. But the truth is he's probably doomed one way or the other because he's notably not bowlegged, so there's clearly no hope.

Yeah he appears to have above average lateral acceleration when defending the pic and roll so apparently so apparently his legs are.

Hmmn, I wonder what accounts for his worse than average lane agility measures then. There's no way he'll be a good defender, why his agility measures are only a little faster than Brendan Haywood.

Hard to tell if he's all bowlegged up, let's check the pictures:









Dunno, man, looks in that last picture like he's practically knock-kneed.

[Ruzious]

That first picture says a thousand words.

Fwiw, JaM's build looks like Pech's. They both seem to have a good core and lower body but are thin up top.

[doclinkin]

That first picture was actually from his freshman year, ditto the last one. He's begun to build a little since then. Apparently he put in crazy work last summer to get ready for this past season.

[fishercob]

The third picture is amazing because of how high he is -- and his arm isn't even close to straight.

[newslowsad]

That first picture says a thousand words.

Fwiw, JaM's build looks like Pech's. They both seem to have a good core and lower body but are thin up top.

Maybe, but McGee looks like he isn't afraid to bang. Pech is scared to move beyond the free throw line.

[ZonkertheBrainless]

Geeze, you guys, eight pages? I know absolutely nothing about the guy, never seen him play, so I'll have to wait until I actually see him in a wiz uni before I say anything about him. All panicking aside, what really needs to happen is that one of the young three -- McGee, Pecherov, or Blatche -- have to develop into a starting quality player once Jamison leaves or we're screwed. Blatche looks like the best candidate for that so McGee is under no pressure at all to succeed.