Official John Wall Appreciation Thread

TGW · Post #1001 » by **TGW** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:45 am

I just checked Wall's advanced statistics, and he is, undoubtedly the best player on the team. He's second in PER behind Javale, but nets a +2.4 on/off court rating (unlike Javale, who posts a -3.7), while outproducing his counterpart by +4.3.

What these numbers tell me is that Wall is doing his job. Nick Young and Booker, on a lesser extent, do their job. The rest of the team (inlcuding Javale) do NOT do their job. Quite frankly, it's a miracle Wall averages 7.5 assists per game with the talent that he plays with. No one can make a shot except for Nick Young. The number of assists he can record with simple kickouts and off the ball screens to shooters are pretty much nullified. It's either he penetrates and finds a teammate for a dunk/layup, or he finds Nick open for a jumper on the wings.

Unfortunately, many people believe a team is only as good as it's best player...well Wall is decent. Not great, not bad, but decent. The rest of the team stinks, and he's not the reason for it.

tontoz · Post #1002 » by **tontoz** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:34 pm

I was just checking out the new toy that was posted in the stats thread.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/

During the first 15 games of the season Wall was shooting 22% from 10 or more feet, 20.5% from 15+. Over the last 15 games Wall is shooting 41% from 10+, 39% from 15+.

pancakes3 · Post #1003 » by **pancakes3** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:06 pm

theboomking wrote:I feel like I am cherry picking a little bit when I keep quoting Wall's stats from the last 10 games from ESPN. The first part of the season must still weigh heavily on the minds of the forum members.

It doesn't just weigh heavily - it's the entirety of the weight. The "regressed" talk and the "Irving is better" talk comes directly from the first part of the season. There few, if any, who still have that conviction now. Also to be even more fair, many of the posters - including myself - weren't saying that Irving was better. We were just noting that Wall looked like poo in contrast to Irving. If you sat people down and asked them point blank, would you swap the two heads up, I'd say only maybe a vocal 2 or 3 would have agreed and tentatively at that.

hands11 · Post #1004 » by **hands11** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:57 am

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wiz ... _blog.html

Personally, I don't like him coming out publicly talking like this. It shows immaturity and lack of humility. He doesn't need to prove people wrong .. that is what people like Gil were about.

He needs to prove people right. He was taken with the first pick.

If you are not picked higher in a game like this and someone asks about it you answer is something like... They are all really good players and I am happy for them. They deserve to be selected. I got of to a slow start this year but I'm going to keep working on my game and listening to the coaches. My jump shot is coming around so that is helping me out there. I just have to focus on getting better and what I can do to help my team get better. I'm just happy to have a opportunity to play in this league and with these guys in this exhibition game. It's a true blessing. I had a lot of fun last year. It will be great getting to spend time with these guys and play with them for the fans.

That is how a mature, humble young rising star answers that question. You don't play into it talking about me me me and how I feel snubbed. Don't tell them they were wrong, look at why you weren't selected higher and go do something about it.

hands11 · Post #1005 » by **hands11** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:50 am

theboomking wrote:
ScramboD8 wrote:It clearly bothers him to be selected late in an exhibition game. But it's clear he's not improving from his hyped first year and team is not doing much right either.
I think he got selected way too late and the Lin and Rubio hype is linsane but I'd rather have Wall anyway. If he can learn to shoot he will be a terrific PG.

I don't really know why you all compare him with Kyrie. He's losing that matchup statistically big time if you look what both are doing 36 mpg. Kyrie is playing significantly less minutes..

Yeah. Actually he isn't losing that statistical matchup big time. And over the last 10 games Wall is averaging about 2 minutes more a game. Irving is posting 35.4 minutes per game vs 37.3. If you want to go back and post the per 36 stats over the last 10 and 20 games to prove me wrong, I'd like to see those numbers. Or, we can just look back and analyze their numbers as a whole after the season is over.

While comparing Wall to Kyrie largely isn't fair to Kyrie, as Irving is a rookie, and Wall is a second year player it is the perceived gap between them however that aggravates me. I'm not sure why it bothers me, but Wall gets no love from the press/boards compared to much less proven and talented players. Take Rubio for example. He has some spectacular passing highlights, but on a Minnesota team that is absolutely stacked compared to the Wizards of 2011, Rubio is just barely beating Wall's rookie stats for assists per game, while scoring only 11ppg on .378 shooting. If you followed the media, sports radio and trade forums, you would think Rubio was the second coming, and that it is a no brainer that he would be a better PG here than Wall.

Really, I should probably be happy that Wall isn't getting any national respect, and feels slighted by his late selection in the rookie vs sophomore game. Wall is intense, and hard working, and I have little doubt that he will be as motivated as I am annoyed.

It is a popularity contest to some extent. Wall has moped. Its is also about personality. Kyrie and Rubio have the edge on Wall there. So does Lin. And once these teams picked their PGs, they went after other positions. That is why he dropped so much. If he wasnt a top 3, he was going to get picked later.

That said, I have notice a different tone in Wall voice during resent interviews. He seems more calm and engaging. He hasnt been the best interview in the past. He talks to fast and monotone. He wasnt engaging.

It is entertainment. It isnt only what you do on the court. The fans want the right personality. Look at LeBron as an example. Great talent. Crappy personality. But in contrast, Bird, MJ and Magic. They all had "it" Isiah had it. Ray Allen has it. Personality matters.

Post #1006 » by **nate33** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:21 pm

The Wizards suck. Wall isn't going to get much recognition until the Wizards start winning some games. I don't care about the stats. Rubio, Lin and Irving are winning a whole lot more than Wall. THAT'S why they got picked ahead of him. The only "snub" was that Kemba Walker was picked ahead of him too. That doesn't make any sense to me.

Induveca · Post #1007 » by **Induveca** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:10 pm

I like Wall a lot and he needs time, but it isn't lost on the public that it has been two years and there hasn't been any personal or team improvement under his tenure.

For those who rarely leave DC, you may not realize how pathetic our Wizards are to other fans. The Clippers vibe in the 80s/90s? That's not the Bobcats.....that's us to most NBA fans.

I'd say we have a 25% chance of resigning Wall after his rookie rights are up. We're rebuilding via picks like Vesely, Singleton and Seraphin. If we get lucky and draft Davis we have a shot, otherwise we're in for another similar season in 2012-2013.

We have our star in Wall, we need to get him some all star/veteran talent at this point. OKC was an exception to the rule. We're most similar to the Nets. Desperate/middling picks for years/about to lose our star.

verbal8 · Post #1008 » by **verbal8** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:16 pm

hands11 wrote:It is entertainment. It isnt only what you do on the court. The fans want the right personality. Look at LeBron as an example. Great talent. Crappy personality. But in contrast, Bird, MJ and Magic. They all had "it" Isiah had it. Ray Allen has it. Personality matters.

I don't think Bird had "it", in terms of the natural star personality. I think his on the court performance and flair and his rivalry with Magic helped in develop it.

I think Wall may not be too far off from Bird in terms of personality.

While there may be something to "star personality", it doesn't guarantee the franchise success. Chris Webber had as much as anyone and he never won a championship. Tim Duncan will rate low on any measure of "star personality", but he has 4 championship rings(3 as "top dog").

closg00 · Post #1009 » by **closg00** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:22 pm

Induveca wrote:I like Wall a lot and he needs time, but it isn't lost on the public that it has been two years and there hasn't been any personal or team improvement under his tenure.

For those who rarely leave DC, you may not realize how pathetic our Wizards are to other fans. The Clippers vibe in the 80s/90s? That's not the Bobcats.....that's us to most NBA fans.

I'd say we have a 25% chance of resigning Wall after his rookie rights are up. We're rebuilding via picks like Vesely, Singleton and Seraphin. If we get lucky and draft Davis we have a shot, otherwise we're in for another similar season in 2012-2013.

We have our star in Wall, we need to get him some all star/veteran talent at this point. OKC was an exception to the rule. We're most similar to the Nets. Desperate/middling picks for years/about to lose our star.

+1 Ted's NHL-style re-build plan will send Wall & McGee on the first plane out of DC as-soon as they are able. Didn't Ted recently signal that the NBA team-building isn't the same as in the NHL?

I am hopeful that the Wizards will at-least attempt to ramp-up the rebuild with a few targeted FA signings combined with our next top-5 draft-pick. This is what MUST happen next, we've got to be contenders for the 8th seed next year to keep John interested in staying-on.

Post #1010 » by **nate33** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:00 pm

I agree that we need to start adding some good vets to the mix. But in Ted's defense, I think it would have been premature to do so before now. We didn't have all that much cap room available last year anyhow, and there weren't many quality free agents available. Ted chose to tank for one more year.

We've got two more seasons to turn this around so that Wall feels some hope. If we win 35 games next year and 45 the year after, the misery of this season will be long forgotten. I think win totals like that will be possible with a team centered around an improved Wall, an improved McGee, Booker, Vesely, a top 5 pick, a starting caliber free agent, and a rotation-caliber free agent. (We might have to trade one of Booker or Vesely for a shooter depending on who is available in the draft or free agent market.)

Heck, take the team we have now, add Harrison Barnes, and we'd win 35 games next year. And that's without adding any free agents. (I'm assuming Booker marginally improves his jumper, Vesely adds 10 pounds, McGee eliminates one WTF per game from his box score, and Wall doesn't play like crap in his first 15 games because of a lack of training camp.)

tontoz · Post #1011 » by **tontoz** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:15 pm

Induveca wrote:I'd say we have a 25% chance of resigning Wall after his rookie rights are up.

*insert panic button here*

Wall will be restricted when his rookie contract is up. The Wizards can match any offer he signs. The only way to become a UFA is to sign the QO for his 5th season like Nick did. Feel free to point out the times that scenario has played out for a high profile RFA. There's Ben Gordon and.......?

closg00 · Post #1012 » by **closg00** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:57 pm

tontoz wrote:
Induveca wrote:I'd say we have a 25% chance of resigning Wall after his rookie rights are up.

*insert panic button here*

Wall will be restricted when his rookie contract is up. The Wizards can match any offer he signs. The only way to become a UFA is to sign the QO for his 5th season like Nick did. Feel free to point out the times that scenario has played out for a high profile RFA. There's Ben Gordon and.......?

I was thinking more in terms of a public demand to be traded when his contract is up, that could happen.

tontoz · Post #1013 » by **tontoz** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:10 pm

Dwight Howard made a trade demand at the start of the season but he is still in Orlando even though he can opt out and become a UFA this summer. If i remember right Kobe demanded a trade years ago but he is still in LA.

Trade demands don't mean much, especially without leverage which RFA's don't have.

Post #1014 » by **Ruzious** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:39 pm

It's premature to speculate on Wall leaving via free agency. Certainly restricted free agency is a ginormous advantage for the Wiz and so is the ability for the current team to pay more. We have no idea what the Wiz roster will be next season - and that'll likely go a long way as to determining whether or not a player like Wall woud want to stay here.

DCZards · Post #1015 » by **DCZards** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:25 pm

hands11 wrote:
It is a popularity contest to some extent. Wall has moped. Its is also about personality. Kyrie and Rubio have the edge on Wall there. So does Lin. And once these teams picked their PGs, they went after other positions. That is why he dropped so much. If he wasnt a top 3, he was going to get picked later.

Kyrie, Rubio and Lin may be more polished than Wall from a speaking/public relations standpoint but I'm not so sure they have better personalities. That's something you really can't tell without being around someone and/or knowing them personally.

Wall has "moped" because he's frustrated by his team's performance. Not saying that he should be moping, but that is the reality right now. Unlike Rubio, Irving or Lin, John has been asked to be his team's "mature, veteran" leader pretty much from day one of his career. That's a tough task for a 19-20 year old kid.

DallasShalDune · Post #1016 » by **DallasShalDune** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:39 pm

Even Irving has strong veterans to guide him. Antawn is a good player to have on a rebuilding team, for example. We don't have anyone of that caliber.

Dat2U · Post #1017 » by **Dat2U** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:50 pm

Induveca wrote:I like Wall a lot and he needs time, but it isn't lost on the public that it has been two years and there hasn't been any personal or team improvement under his tenure.

For those who rarely leave DC, you may not realize how pathetic our Wizards are to other fans. The Clippers vibe in the 80s/90s? That's not the Bobcats.....that's us to most NBA fans.

I'd say we have a 25% chance of resigning Wall after his rookie rights are up. We're rebuilding via picks like Vesely, Singleton and Seraphin. If we get lucky and draft Davis we have a shot, otherwise we're in for another similar season in 2012-2013.

If Ernie is going to remain the GM beyond this year, then yes, I'd say chances are that we'd eventually lose Wall. Another two years of being dissed, ignored and playing for a league laughingstock would make anyone want to leave.

JonathanJoseph · Post #1018 » by **JonathanJoseph** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:39 pm

nate33 wrote:I agree that we need to start adding some good vets to the mix. But in Ted's defense, I think it would have been premature to do so before now. We didn't have all that much cap room available last year anyhow, and there weren't many quality free agents available. Ted chose to tank for one more year.

We've got two more seasons to turn this around so that Wall feels some hope. If we win 35 games next year and 45 the year after, the misery of this season will be long forgotten. I think win totals like that will be possible with a team centered around an improved Wall, an improved McGee, Booker, Vesely, a top 5 pick, a starting caliber free agent, and a rotation-caliber free agent. (We might have to trade one of Booker or Vesely for a shooter depending on who is available in the draft or free agent market.)

Heck, take the team we have now, add Harrison Barnes, and we'd win 35 games next year. And that's without adding any free agents. (I'm assuming Booker marginally improves his jumper, Vesely adds 10 pounds, McGee eliminates one WTF per game from his box score, and Wall doesn't play like crap in his first 15 games because of a lack of training camp.)

Great perspective for the optimistic viewpoint.

To steal another line from the departed Flip Saunders, it's never as good as you think or as bad as you think. Winning cures a lot.

There's a pretty quick path to improvement with a top 5 pick, a top FA and still cap room left over. If Wall's recent improvement is something he can build on (and if he is to be the player many expect him to be), those future win totals wouldn't merely be possible but likely.

ST21 · Post #1019 » by **ST21** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:01 am

do you guys think wall can/will make the olympic roster anytime soon?

JonathanJoseph · Post #1020 » by **JonathanJoseph** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:41 pm

ST21 wrote:do you guys think wall can/will make the olympic roster anytime soon?

Not a snowball's chance in hell. The international game is all about half court offense and being able to shoot (vs zone defense), areas where Wall is on the wrong side of mediocre. I doubt that even if Wall reaches his full potential that he will ever play for Team USA.