Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4

[WizarDynasty]

So four dimensions to be a shutdown small forward. This type of player is needed for a championship squad.
1--Standing reach to challenge shot. 9'0 plus. 2-- Low center of gravity and forearm strength while moving with strength to bump a player off balance without being called for a foul--bump with little arm movement. 3--Foot recovery speed after challenging a wide open players shot and forcing him to drive but still being able to keep up with him after he puts the ball on the floor (this is not lateral agility but foot reaction speed based on reading an offensive players foot position after he pump fakes and reacting correctly with your own foot position to deny him an offensive advantage after his fake. The quicker you are at reading and shifting your feet, the greater your chance at neutralizing the offensive advantage he gained from being wide open. 4--Raw lateral speed or ability to close off your man's driving lane before he gets into the paint.

Best cause scenario Kanter falls to us. But it looks like Vesley will be a Wizard. He hasn't impressed me much but after a few years in the weight room and proper coaching, he could be a good player.

I would feel better about Vesely if he had a skill beyond running hard and jumping high. From all the highlights I've seen, and limited game footage, he doesn't seem to have a tangible basketball skillset.

That worries me, a lot.

I've ranted this before and you guys are going to have to hear me rant this again.

Athletic ablity insofar as running and jumping are so overrated.

And I'm tired of everyone talking about the OKC model. You know what model I want? The San Antonio model. The Dallas Model (of this year). Heck, even the Lakers model (yeah, I give you that they have Kobe).

Look at the list of NBA champions.

2011 Dallas
2010 Lakers
2009 Lakers
2008 Cs
2007 Spurs
2006 Heat
2005 Spurs

Nobody in that group with a real run and jump squad. But they're all smart. Coached well. Lakers win back-to-back with Derek Freaking Fisher at point. Dallas with Jason "old man" Kidd.

Smarts wins championships. Heart wins championships. Basketball IQ wins championships.

THAT'S what's most important. I don't care if it's a reach - but if the Wiz drafted the guy who tested out to have the best combination of basketball IQ and worth ethic, I'd be happy.

Kidd is one of the best defensive guards of all time.

Kidd is the genius behind the mavericks. He would easily be one of the best coaches in the league if he retired.
Jason Terry has always been a gilbert arenas type scorer with no defense.
tyson chandler has always been a dominant rebounder and defensive player. He just had knee injuries that plague him until this year with mavs.
Marion has always been a two way player at the small forward spot. I have always said that Haywood is a great backup center which he proved to be with the mavs.
Obviously Barea developed an outstanding IQ playing with one of the smartest players ever in the nba in jason kidd.
Dirk has outstanding size for a powerforward which is the main reason why he is dominant. Had he been 6'8 instead of 7' plus he wouldn't be nearly as dominant.
Basketball IQ with poor physical defensive ability on defense...you can't get away with those traits unless you have a tremendous size advantage offensively. Marcus Morris does not have a significant size advantage at 6'8 with an average standing reach for a small forward and absolutely no lateral defensive ability or shotblocking.
He has dirk's game but is 5 inches shorter. Dirk can get away with his game because he has the size with no shotblocking to battle on the block. Marcus Morris main job as a small forward is to contest perimeter shots and stay in front of penetrating players out on the perimeter.
The only way Marcus could get away with having slow feet on defense is to make up for his slow feet by being able to play further away from his man due to absurdly above average standing reach.
Unfortunately there are no medical procedures to make M. Morris arms longer or to make his leg muscle react instantaneous to fake pump and drives that guards use on kick outs from a point guards dish.
M.Morris is the same category has Jamison. He would be nice as a scoring boost coming off the bench but if he is your longterm starter you will get murdered defensively against elite teams. same thing with D.Williams. He may be trying to sale himself as a small forward offensively but he has show zero ability to shutdown other small forwards out on the perimeter.
Small forwards make their living playing defense out on the perimeter and play erasor using extraordinary length to force a perimeter player to change his natural shot mechanics and closing speed to disrupt three point shots out on the perimeter. Footspeed and the strength using slight forearm nudges to redirect and knock a driving perimeter player off balance and off initial driving lane without being called for the foul and high physical motor for scrapping for long rebounds.
Morris has no lateral foot speed to speak off. He doesn't have length to challenge perimeter shots. he doesn't have low center of gravity and strength to knock quick driving guards off balance without being called for a foul.
D.Williams has decent length for changing shot mechanics on perimeter (1) but he doesn't have low center of gravity strength to redirect driving perimeter players bending his knees (0) , his combine score says that he has decent footspeed to match shutdown driving lanes(1). He seems to not have quick foot recovery speed to challenge perimeter shooters forcing a perimeter player to put the ball on the floor and then still be able to force them into a bad driving angle to the basket. (2 out 4)
Vesely has outstanding length to change shot mechanics of perimeter shooters on nearly every possession 1pt, he has average footspeed for a small forward closing out on shots but nothing elite when going against the quickest player .5 and doesn't have low center of gravity and forearm strength to redirect a perimeter players driving lane. He has pretty decent lateral speed shutting off driving lanes. 1 (2.5 out of 4).
Singleton has excellent low center of gravity and strength to redirect a driving perimeter player, he also has pretty decent foot recovery speed when closing out out perimeter shooters and still forcing them into bad driving angles to the basket (this isn't lateral speed). he doesn't have outstanding length to change shot mechanics on a shot. He does have a excellent lateral speed to cut off driving lanes. (3 out of 4).
M.Morris Doesn't have length. Doesn't have a low center of gravity and forearm strength to redirect a perimeter players off balance and off their driving lane. Doesn't have the footspeed to recover after challenging an open perimeter players shot. He doesn't have the raw lateral speed to cut off a penetrating guards driving lane. (0 out of 4)
So four dimensions to be a shutdown small forward.
1--Standing reach to challenge shot. 9'0 plus. 2-- Low center of gravity and forearm strength while moving with strength to bump a player off balance without being called for a foul--bump with little arm movement. 3--Foot recovery speed after challenging a wide open players shot and forcing him to drive but still being able to keep up with him after he puts the ball on the floor 4--Raw lateral speed or ability to close off your man's driving lane before he gets into the paint.

[manifested]

I must not have communicated my point well. My point was not that we need to sign Nene, or Chandler, or that we should have traded for Perkins. My point is that JaVale McGee is not "untouchable", as many on this board contend.

To be untouchable, you have to be irreplaceable. JaVale is not. I named 3 players that could have better than adequately replaced JaVale if we were contenders, this year. I was extrapolating that if there are 3 players, currently superior to JaVale, available this year, that it is highly unlikely that in future years, another serviceable replacement wouldn't also be available.

Fishercob, do you really think that it is unlikely that players are going to want to come here to play with Wall in Washington? If we are a decent team, and Wall keeps progressing, free agents will want to come. Big time free agents. Especially big man free agents. When was the last time a big man draft prospect professed his desire to come to Washington? Kanter did this year. You don't think Cousins would think of coming here, after saying at last year's rookie v Sophomore game that one year was too short a time to have with John Wall? I wouldn't be surprised if players of Blake Griffin's caliber wanted to play here for for Leonsis, with Wall, instead of re-upping with cheap ass Donald Sterling.

Regardless, my point was never that we need to sign a free agent center or big man. It was purely that JaVale isn't untouchable, or irreplaceable. He is neither. We may not be able to replace JaVale's highlights, but that is largely all that McGee offers at this point in his career. That wouldn't be so bad if McGee was constantly watching tape and working on his fundamentals, but he has shown no insight into what he needs to do better in order to become an elite center. I'm not that impressed by JaVale's PER. He is a low utilization player that catches the ball near the basket and benefits from playing with John Wall. McGee isn't that good on offense, or on defense. His offensive and defensive on/off stats should be much, much better considering the players we have behind him.

Maybe Williams isn't a better prospect than JaVale. Maybe EG thinks Williams won't be able to score as efficiently in the NBA, where defenders are longer and more athletic, Derrick won't be able to get to the FT as often, and the 3 point line is more distant. Maybe EG thinks Williams will be Jamison-esque on defense. Fine then. Don't trade for him.

But, if there is a player who can be a multi-year all star, who is intense, can score, who would make our team more attractive to future free agents, who would be a good running mate for Wall, and who would give us the immense cap flexibility of having our two best players on rookie contracts, philosophically, JaVale is not too high a price to pay. Not nearly.

In any case, I'm with Jerry West, who openly said that the biggest mistake you can make in a rebuild, is to overvalue the top players on a bad team.

I lurk here but don't post much. I absolutely agree with this and do not understand the reluctance to trade Javale. His best value to us is as a trade piece. I can understand if you don't think that Williams is worth it, but it seems that the argument on this board revolves more around not wanting to let go of Javale's potential because he's a center.

If we want to sign FA then we are going to have to find another player who they'll want to play with. Wall + #1 scoring option = desirable destination. Relatively easy to find mid-level free agents to fill the #2 scoring option, post defender/rebounder, 3 and D roles when you have an efficient scorer and top PG. Wall + McGee (even assuming McGee reaches Chandler's or Noah's level) doesn't scream desirable FA destination. Are you likely to attract a top scorer in FA without severely overpaying? If we're lucky and we find a David West type, we'd be like the Hornets. Solid playoff team, not contenders.

Is it easier to find a good defensive center who is an adequate third or fourth option in FA/trade? Or easier to develop one? Compare to the difficulty of finding an efficient scorer that can be a #1 option? If the brass is convinced that Williams can be that kind of option and he is available to us, than it's worth it to overpay bc IMO that's the piece that's hardest to add and the most crucial for building a foundation we can fill in around.

You can be a contender with a FA center who focuses on defense, rebounding, garbage plays. You can't be a contender without at least one elite scorer on your team (unless you have Dwight Howard).

[closg00]

We're not trading JaVale so move along folks.

[fishercob]

boomking: very good post and well taken -- especially as to the future attractiveness of DC as a FA destination with this generation of guys. To be clear *I* am not arguing that Vale is untouchable. I'd trade anyone in the right deal. My main thing with Javale is that guys get better -- bigmen progress more slowly than wings. Javale does many things poorly, but there is no arguing that statistics that say he's productive -- as productive as #2 picks Chandler and Camby were at the same stages of their careers.

As much as anyone I can be guilty of thinking too much like a fantasy basketball GM. I think that our best chance to create value with McGee is to continue to develop him, not to trade him (unless the return is massive). He possesses physical attributes and skills that no other player in the league does. As he continues to mature and hopefully dedicate himself, I think in 2-3 years he could be a borderline all-star.

To bring it back to the draft, the two foremost experts on draft prospect tiers (that would be Chad Ford and Dat2U) both agree that there are no Tier 1 prospects in this draft -- no Wall, Blake Griffin, Derrick Favors, Derrick Rose, etc. That's the level of guy I'd trade McGee for -- not for a guy like Williams, when next year's draft is loaded with 3's and 4's (and we're a good bet to be in the top half of the lotto again).

Wouldn't it be nice to have a matured Vale as our starting center when we sign Blake Griffin or Cousins as a FA?

[sfam]

I listened to a great radio briefing by Jay Bilas, Chad Ford, and Fran Frascilla (sp) with reporters from around the country with NBA draft questions. Here's the link - you may want to spend the afternoon listening:

http://player.delvenetworks.com/preview ... abb0166ca5

Listening to this now. So far the most interesting thing said is that most agree that the players from #3 - #10 are all about equal. In answering Michael Lee they didn't seem that thrilled about moving up - that what the Wizards would be giving up probably would be greater than they'd receive.

Also, all three seemed to think Vesely was as safe a pick as could be made - all expected the Wizards to take either him (seemed to be their preference) or Leonard. And granted, I've only been watching highlights of Vesely, but I'm just not seeing an untra-crappy ball handler who has no BBall skills. There's a reason this guy is starting in the Euroleague. He seems ultra-quick to me, and seems to move just fine in traffic.

[WizarDynasty]

Vesely was guarding nba guards like flip murry so he had much more difficult perimeter assignments that M.Morris.

Guarding a washed up NBA backup is a lot different from guarding Melo and Lebron. He is going to get clowned and won't be able to make guys pay on the other end due to his weak shot, weak handles and poor hands. He can't even shoot 70% from the foul line.

yeah flip is pretty old but its not like he is older than jason kidd. I think that Vesely will definitely force melo and lebron to alter their perimeter shots better than any perimeter defender in this draft. I definitely don't think vesely has the strength to redirect melo and lebron off their driving lanes once they power past him no one really does, which is why you have to rotation to shut down the lane. the most important aspect for a small forward is that he can force any perimeter player to alter their normal shot mechanics. Vesely and marion are both long enough to get to lebron shots before it leaves his hand out on the perimeter.
The key to Dallas was marion and jason kidd both being lock down defenders when playing in space. You saw how effective kidd was at using his strength and lateral quickness against kobe. and you saw how marion made all of Lebron's perimeter shots contested. Marcus Morris never in his lifetime will come anywhere close to contesting Lebron's perimeter shot like an old s. marion.
you want a player with raw defensive ability who shows solid offensive upside. Not a polished offensive player who has shown no defensive upside at lower level of competition.

[Jay81]

i think Vesley would be a nice piece for the Spurs, Celtics, but he is not a good fit for the Wizards. The last thing we need is another player who cant shoot it from the outside. I think Vesley can be a really good player in the right system that has shooters and need his slashing style but we are not one of those teams. He is more of a luxury than a need for us.

[Induveca]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA_Europ ... Year_Award

Found that interesting. FIBA's "Young Men's Player of the Year Award". Only been around 5-6 years.

3 of the 5 years it went to Ricky Rubio. First year it was some fellow named Nikolaos Zisis, who has cratered since his award and never made it to the NBA despite being drafted.

2010? Vesely wins.

Vesely has played against the Suns and Jazz before in 2009 in a Euroleague tour. He put up solid numbers except for 5 turnovers against NBA backups.

vs the Suns
http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=291006021

I'm just not a fan of the kid. He's 6'11 230...........ZERO strength. With McGee/Blatche/Vesely on our front line we stand no chance against strong rebounding teams.

[Jay81]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA_Europe_Young_Men's_Player_of_the_Year_Award

Found that interesting. FIBA's "Young Men's Player of the Year Award". Only been around 5-6 years.

3 of the 5 years it went to Ricky Rubio. First year it was some fellow named Nikolaos Zisis, who has cratered since his award and never made it to the NBA despite being drafted.

2010? Vesely wins.

Vesely has played against the Suns and Jazz before in 2009 in a Euroleague tour. He put up solid numbers except for 5 turnovers against NBA backups.

vs the Suns
http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=291006021

I'm just not a fan of the kid. He's 6'11 230...........ZERO strength. With McGee/Blatche/Vesely on our
front line we stand no chance against strong rebounding teams.

lol..here is the wizards box from that night

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=291006027

[theboomking]

boomking: very good post and well taken -- especially as to the future attractiveness of DC as a FA destination with this generation of guys. To be clear *I* am not arguing that Vale is untouchable. I'd trade anyone in the right deal. My main thing with Javale is that guys get better -- bigmen progress more slowly than wings. Javale does many things poorly, but there is no arguing that statistics that say he's productive -- as productive as #2 picks Chandler and Camby were at the same stages of their careers.

I appreciate the discussion. I actually usually agree with you and illuminaire, which is part of what makes the draft so compelling in general, and this draft in particular. I do see that a lot of big men seem to develop slowly. I also agree that McGee's stats look good. I just don't like his mindset. I also agree with another poster in the forum who questioned whether being constantly compared to Chandler and Camby means that you really have that much promise. Neither of those guys has been ultra successful, or extraordinary. I might make the argument that if McGee has the potential to become a Chandler type player, it wouldn't be that big of a mistake to trade him for an elite prospect.

As much as anyone I can be guilty of thinking too much like a fantasy basketball GM. I think that our best chance to create value with McGee is to continue to develop him, not to trade him (unless the return is massive). He possesses physical attributes and skills that no other player in the league does. As he continues to mature and hopefully dedicate himself, I think in 2-3 years he could be a borderline all-star.

This is where you guys have a great argument. McGee is truly a physically unique talent. I am not sure however that our best way to get trade value out of McGee is to continue to develop him. There is a lot of risk that McGee won't develop quickly. Right now, McGee has a lot of value. Part of that value is that he is so young and has so much upside. It is looking more like we might be able to get the #2 or 3 pick for him in a straight up trade. The only way we'd get better value would be if we could package him with other assets for a true franchise big. In two years, if we still have McGee, and he is good, but not great, then we'd be looking at trading an older guy, who is less likely to ever be great, and is on a more expensive contract. In trading prospects, it is often best to trade while the iron is hot, which might be the case with McGee this year.

To bring it back to the draft, the two foremost experts on draft prospect tiers (that would be Chad Ford and Dat2U) both agree that there are no Tier 1 prospects in this draft -- no Wall, Blake Griffin, Derrick Favors, Derrick Rose, etc. That's the level of guy I'd trade McGee for -- not for a guy like Williams, when next year's draft is loaded with 3's and 4's (and we're a good bet to be in the top half of the lotto again).

Tier one guys are defined as certain all-stars and likely franchise players aren't they? I think that Favors was listed as a tier 2 guy. I agree that there isn't a clear tier 1 guy this year. We already have our tier 1 guy though. I view Williams as a high tier 2 player, and I think that he is an excellent fit with us. IMHO, Williams may be the kind of guy that could look like a tier 1 guy if paired with a true elite player like Wall.

That is the other thing that we have to watch with McGee. Valuing McGee too highly might be a little like overvaluing Deion Branch. Branch had Tom Brady throwing to him. Of course he was going to look good. The fact of the matter is that, based on his on/off stats, McGee impacts the game more positively on offense than on defense at this point. In terms of his defense, McGee's effect on team defense is barely better than when Seraphin/N'Diaye/Blatche/Armstrong were in. That is pretty damning. On offense, where McGee looks a little better, he passes the statistical test, but not necessarily the eye test. McGee really benefits from Wall drawing so much attention and being such a good passer. On another team, McGee might look significantly less effective.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a matured Vale as our starting center when we sign Blake Griffin or Cousins as a FA?

That would be really nice. Just to be clear, I'd be stunned if we traded McGee. I just don't think that we are going to make that move. I also am not in favor of dumping McGee for no reason. I'm just trying to play fantasy GM to try to find a way to get a Robin on this team.

In any case, I feel like I've hijacked this thread with McGee talk.

What would you guys think about Montiejunas at 18, or Mirotic a little lower. I'd be pretty wary of either, but think both could be a real possibility.

For the Wizards, how high would you look at Jeremy Tyler?

[nate33]

I used to be concerned about getting Jan, but now I'm kindof intrigued. He'd be a great Fast Break running mate for Wall. And if he works hard, I'm guessing he develops a stable shot.

I'm coming around on Vesely too. He's a legit athletic freak, even if he has no skills. I could see him having a Marion like impact once he fills out a bit - maybe even Kirilenko. Length + motor + freak athleticism usually translates into a pretty decent player. I have the same doubts as everyone else about his basketball skills; it's certainly a gamble. But if we're going to gamble, we may as well gamble on someone with significant upside.

I'd still much prefer Kanter and I'd rather trade our #18 to move up to #3. But if Vesely is there at #6 and Ernie grabs him, I'll be willing to wait a bit before declaring it a disastrous pick.

[fishercob]

boom, thanks for your continued thoughts. Couple more thoughts.

1) To me, Tyson Chandler is unquestionably an elite center. His greatness stems mostly from his defense and rebounding, but he plays his offensive "roll" (as in "pick and") extremely well and is a force on the offensive glass. Vale has a waaaaaays to go defensively. He showed signs last year of being dominant on the boards in stretches (check 11/16 -11/29 and 3/8 - 3/28). He's already a threat to put any missed shot back in. He;s offensive numbers reflect that. I think Camby also had stretches as an elite role player. Not sure if his peak was as good as Chandler's. I think Javale will grow to be far better than Chandler offensively. If he can become a net gain defensively, he'll be really good.

2) I dunno about Williams. I was convinced he had star SF written all over him, but so many pundits are certain he's a PF that it has me second guessing the type of player he is and how special he'll be. Teh player he initially reminded me most of was Glenn RObinson. he was good, but certainly not special; you were never winning a title if he was your second best player.

3a) I want no part of Jeremy Tyler. None. We've got zero margin for error when it comes to character, maturity, work ethic, etc. We've got our own high risk-reward guys in Blatche and to a lesser extent McGee and Young. Let someone else roll the dice on Tyler. Wall, Booker, Shard, Mo Evans, Howard, etc. have us headed in the right direction. I'm hopeful they can positively influence the aforementioned "at risk" guys. I don't want anypone who could shift that balance back the other way.

3b) I'm not that interested in Motiejunas for some similar reasons as Tyler. Many scouts have written some fairly damning things about him, including his apparant lack of love/passion for the game. If that's the case, he'll fail. We need a physical, athletic wing. Montyjune screams Yi to me.

3c) I'd be cool with Mirotic at 34. He's not coming over for at least 2 years, maybe more. But we can't develop 10 kids at once. If nothing else, he'd probably show as a nice chip in a future consolidation trade.

[Illuminaire]

Boom: I'm right with you and Fish, really. We're shaving a hair that could split in either direction, and there's just no way to know until a few years down the road. I guess we'll find out!

Nate: NOOOOOO. Don't go to the dark side! I invoke the spirit of James White and Joe Alexander. I abjure thee, Nate, by the power of Hasheem Thabeet!

[Illuminaire]

Fish + Boom: Davis Bertans sounds like an interesting stash guy, too. If he's there at 18, I'd strongly consider tagging him for the future.

[sfam]

3a) I want no part of Jeremy Tyler. None. We've got zero margin for error when it comes to character, maturity, work ethic, etc. We've got our own high risk-reward guys in Blatche and to a lesser extent McGee and Young. Let someone else roll the dice on Tyler. Wall, Booker, Shard, Mo Evans, Howard, etc. have us headed in the right direction. I'm hopeful they can positively influence the aforementioned "at risk" guys. I don't want anypone who could shift that balance back the other way.

3b) I'm not that interested in Motiejunas for some similar reasons as Tyler. Many scouts have written some fairly damning things about him, including his apparant lack of love/passion for the game. If that's

+1

Absolutely agree that we should have high character, high IQ guys as prerequisites. This is what intrigues me about Vesely. We still have skill risk along with our great upside, but we are in the clear regarding knucklehead attacks.

At a minimum, I agree with Nate that Length + Motor + freak athleticism usually is a safe bet - especially when the draft pick does not appear to be a head case. We might be getting AK47, or more likely, Jan's own unique brand of firearm. His first step just seems terrific. I too still would love getting Kanter, but at this point, I think I want Vesely over Leonard.

[sfam]

Fish + Boom: Davis Bertans sounds like an interesting stash guy, too. If he's there at 18, I'd strongly consider tagging him for the future.

If we go SF with the 6th pick (Vesely or Leonard) , I'd really like to go PF/C with the 18th, or vice-versa. I'd actually like it if we could buy one of Chicago's late round firsts for a song to use as a Eurostash pick. Those kinda make the most sense for that.

[theboomking]

3a) I want no part of Jeremy Tyler. None. We've got zero margin for error when it comes to character, maturity, work ethic, etc. We've got our own high risk-reward guys in Blatche and to a lesser extent McGee and Young. Let someone else roll the dice on Tyler. Wall, Booker, Shard, Mo Evans, Howard, etc. have us headed in the right direction. I'm hopeful they can positively influence the aforementioned "at risk" guys. I don't want anypone who could shift that balance back the other way.

3b) I'm not that interested in Motiejunas for some similar reasons as Tyler. Many scouts have written some fairly damning things about him, including his apparant lack of love/passion for the game. If that's

+1 Absolutely agree that we should have high character, high IQ guys as prerequisites. This is what intrigues me about Vesely. We still have skill risk along with our great upside, but we are in the clear regarding knucklehead attacks.

At a minimum, I agree with Nate that Length + Motor + freak athleticism usually is a safe bet - especially when the draft pick does not appear to be a head case. We might be getting AK47, or more likely, Jan's own unique brand of firearm. His first step just seems terrific. I too still would love getting Kanter, but at this point, I think I want Vesely over Leonard.

I think I agree regarding Tyler. He seems to be very mature in his interviews these days however, and his size reminds me of a young Bynum.

Fish + Boom: Davis Bertans sounds like an interesting stash guy, too. If he's there at 18, I'd strongly consider tagging him for the future.

I agree about Bertans, and actually really like the idea of a draft and stash. Having a guy develop elsewhere and come over here at our peak is a nice way to collect talent, but continue to collect higher draft picks as well.

[fishercob]

I am amused that a week or so ago I started defending Vesely simply for sport; I was just annoyed that the board groupthink had labeled him a sure bust when no one has ever seen him play in person, live, or watched more than a few of his games. I was thoroughly skewered for the Kirilenko comparison, and now DX has it his "best case" (may have had it before and I just didn't notice) and people are warming to him. Give it another day or two and I'll be completely against the idea of drafting him!

[pancakes3]

your double negating will land you right back on the right side of things. length+motor doesn't ALWAYS translate to success otherwise, we should be putting in calls to varnado ASAP (does it seem right that the career NCAA blocks leader hasn't played a single NBA minute?)

i'd be interested in biyombo before vesely, and kemba before bismack. between kemba, kanter, bismack, and the better JV, there are more than enough prospects at the 6 spot before we roll the dice on vesely. honestly, it seems that vesely is getting more hype simply because it's easier to type out than valanciunas

now that's not saying Jan WON'T pan out, just that there are other prospects out there that i think have a higher % of panning out.

[dangermouse]

JV has ectomorph written all over him. That long frame will never add much weight. I think the only thing working in his favour is that he has a definite position. He seems quick and has some good offensive instincts. I just don't like him at #6. No friggin way.