Official Trade Thread - Part XXIV

[BruceO]

So what says you guys about walls comment that if he were to add anyone on this team would be cousins.?. That's a huge statement.. I feel like it's an inevitability they will play together

[nate33]

So what says you guys about walls comment that if he were to add anyone on this team would be cousins.?. That's a huge statement.. I feel like it's an inevitability they will play together

I definitely think it's in the long term plan to go after Cousins, character be damned. EG and Ted want to keep Wall happy and if Wall can convince Cousins to come here (and hopefully convince him to toe the line), then it's worth the gamble.

I'm just not sure Sacramento will cooperate. Hopefully, Cousins won't sign any extension this summer. That'll keep hope and speculation alive. Then, if Cousins has some type of meltdown, speculation will continue. Sacramento might get cold feet about the idea of extending him and they would listen to trade offers. Then we just have top hope that they'll accept our offer, which won't include Wall or Beal.

[stevemcqueen1]

So what says you guys about walls comment that if he were to add anyone on this team would be cousins.?. That's a huge statement.. I feel like it's an inevitability they will play together

I definitely think it's in the long term plan to go after Cousins, character be damned. EG and Ted want to keep Wall happy and if Wall can convince Cousins to come here (and hopefully convince him to toe the line), then it's worth the gamble.

I'm just not sure Sacramento will cooperate. Hopefully, Cousins won't sign any extension this summer. That'll keep hope and speculation alive. Then, if Cousins has some type of meltdown, speculation will continue. Sacramento might get cold feet about the idea of extending him and they would listen to trade offers. Then we just have top hope that they'll accept our offer, which won't include Wall or Beal.

If he gets to next summer without an extension, there might be a chance Sacramento won't match a max offer. Or the threat of a max offer might give us leverage in a trade.

[rockymac52]

Can somebody link me to Wall's comments about wanting to play with Cousins? I can't seem to find them anywhere.

[stevemcqueen1]

I doubt Randy would sign off on a trade for Cousins that involves Porter also. He seems to really really like Porter. I'm not sure I feel comfortable with that kind of risky trade either at this point.

[GhostsOfGil]

I doubt Randy would sign off on a trade for Cousins that involves Porter also. He seems to really really like Porter. I'm not sure I feel comfortable with that kind of risky trade either at this point.

Contracts aside, Porter looks more like a risk than Cousins IMO.

[nate33]

I doubt Randy would sign off on a trade for Cousins that involves Porter also. He seems to really really like Porter. I'm not sure I feel comfortable with that kind of risky trade either at this point.

I'd trade Porter for Cousins in a heartbeat. I'd include a lotto protected 1st.

Cousins is a building block. Yes, he is flawed right now with his inefficient offense, slow rotations on defense, and his inability to get along with some coaches, but I'd take the gamble that all of that will improve as he matures.

It's a lousy environment in Sacramento when he's the best player on a bad team. There isn't as much incentive to listen to coaches and there aren't any respected role models to show him the way. Put him on a winning team where he's not the best player, and put some good vets around him like Nene and Webster, and I think his mindset would improve a great deal.

Wall + Beal + Cousins is a core that has enough talent to compete for a championship at some point, and talent is the hardest thing to acquire in this league. After that, it's just a matter of finding the right chemistry of role players and the right coaches.

[Ruzious]

I doubt Randy would sign off on a trade for Cousins that involves Porter also. He seems to really really like Porter. I'm not sure I feel comfortable with that kind of risky trade either at this point.

I'd trade Porter for Cousins in a heartbeat. I'd include a lotto protected 1st.

Cousins is a building block. Yes, he is flawed right now with his inefficient offense, slow rotations on defense, and his inability to get along with some coaches, but I'd take the gamble that all of that will improve as he matures.

It's a lousy environment in Sacramento when he's the best player on a bad team. There isn't as much incentive to listen to coaches and there aren't any respected role models to show him the way. Put him on a winning team where he's not the best player, and put some good vets around him like Nene and Webster, and I think his mindset would improve a great deal.

Wall + Beal + Cousins is a core that has enough talent to compete for a championship at some point, and talent is the hardest thing to acquire in this league. After that, it's just a matter of finding the right chemistry of role players and the right coaches.

I'm pulling for Porter to have a very good first half, so that he becomes serious trade bait (and one of Vesely and Seraphin surprises for further bait). Still having Ariza and Webster at the 3 is all they need there if they have star talents at 3 positions. And hypothetically, they could still keep both Nene and Okafor. It's not likely, but it's possible.

[stevemcqueen1]

I doubt Randy would sign off on a trade for Cousins that involves Porter also. He seems to really really like Porter. I'm not sure I feel comfortable with that kind of risky trade either at this point.

Contracts aside, Porter looks more like a risk than Cousins IMO.

In some ways, I see your point. Cousins is a much bigger talent. But from an intangibles perspective, Porter is so much cleaner.

Porter is a mature, squeaky clean stabilizing element that adds to the positive culture of the locker room. He's about as low maintenance as it gets.

Cousins is the opposite. He's a destabilizing element that would probably be a daily struggle to keep focused and in line.

There are no questionable characters in the locker room right now. Everyone is a very positive culture guy. Cousins would change that. Messing with chemistry can be dangerous and unpredictable.

Plus Cousins would cost a lot more money than Porter, which adds risk in its own right.

[stevemcqueen1]

I doubt Randy would sign off on a trade for Cousins that involves Porter also. He seems to really really like Porter. I'm not sure I feel comfortable with that kind of risky trade either at this point.

I'd trade Porter for Cousins in a heartbeat. I'd include a lotto protected 1st.

Cousins is a building block. Yes, he is flawed right now with his inefficient offense, slow rotations on defense, and his inability to get along with some coaches, but I'd take the gamble that all of that will improve as he matures.

It's a lousy environment in Sacramento when he's the best player on a bad team. There isn't as much incentive to listen to coaches and there aren't any respected role models to show him the way. Put him on a winning team where he's not the best player, and put some good vets around him like Nene and Webster, and I think his mindset would improve a great deal.

Wall + Beal + Cousins is a core that has enough talent to compete for a championship at some point, and talent is the hardest thing to acquire in this league. After that, it's just a matter of finding the right chemistry of role players and the right coaches.

I wasn't really considering Cousins's on court limitations when I contemplated his risk. I'm a believer in his talent and agree he could be a much better player here than in Sacramento. I think his upside is immense and dwarfs Porter's.

I think Cousins has the ability to become the greatest volume scoring big man in the game. Really the only great volume scoring true big man in the game when you look at the rest of the players in his generation. Someone who can score 20+ a game as a true interior scorer and not a three point or long range shooting big.

But I think the real risk of Cousins is in the intangibles. Finding the right chemistry for the locker room that you mention becomes so much more difficult with Cousins than Porter IMO. It'd be a challenge, not something to gloss over. Plus he's not a finished product yet and we'd have to finish his development ourselves, which is another challenge to consider.

I'd honestly prefer to try and keep Porter and just go after Cousins in the summer in RFA to limit our risk. Cousins hasn't proven himself as a superstar or a winner yet, he shouldn't have to cost us a bunch of high value assets in trade. If we don't get him, then maintain our cap space to make a run at another big man down the line. If we're going to sell out to try and get a big, I'd rather it be Kevin Love.

[Nivek]

I like Cousins' POTENTIAL, but I don't agree with just sorta assuming he'll be better in Washington than he's been in Sacramento. He might be, and he might not be. What he does on offense (high usage inefficiency) isn't good enough to win.

The bright side with Cousins may be that his problems on offense can at least theoretically be fixed with coaching. To put it simply, his shot selection sucks. For his career, he's shooting .616 on at-rim attempts, which isn't bad. Unfortunately, at-rim attempts comprise just 37% of his FGA. He's shooting .349 on attempts from 3-feet and beyond -- and that's 63% of his FGA.

A lot of his attempts have been in the 3-10 foot range, where he's been terrible (like nearly everyone in the league -- the conversion rate from that distance is horrible league-wide). For his career, 30% of his attempts have come from that range (28% last season). And, he likes to shoot long twos (25% of his attempts last season), which is bad because even though he shoots it "okay" for a big (.374 for his career -- though just .332 last season) it's low efficiency shot.

If he improves his shot selection, he could certainly be a terrific player. But he hasn't shown much inclination toward actually doing it. He did a little better from rookie year to year two, but seems to have regressed some last season.

[verbal8]

I think the best scenario for Cousins ending up in the Washington would be if Nene and Porter look good at the start of season. If Sacramento isn't sold on Cousins being a max player, turning him into 2 solid players might be a tempting option. I think taking on Salmons would mean the Wizards shouldn't have to give up a future pick.

My biggest concern with Cousins and the Wizards is adding him to a team of primarily low-usage front-court players. 2 of the highest usage Wizards last season were Serpahin and Crawford.

[payitforward]

Why -- WHY! -- are so many of you drooling for Cousins? He hasn't been tremendously productive. And he's a problem child.

Doesn't mean he isn't a nice kid or that he isn't enormously talented. But he doesn't produce at the level of his "talent."

Most incomprehensible of all -- to me at least -- is the blind assumption that pairing him w/ Wall would instantly transform his play. Says who?

I'd much rather have Drummond, Sanders or Vucevic -- among the young Centers.

[payitforward]

...talent is the hardest thing to acquire in this league.

Actually, that's not true. The hardest thing to acquire is a ring -- and you get it with productivity not talent. Cousins hasn't produced.

Put him on the floor instead of Okafor, and you win fewer games not more games. Full stop.

[nate33]

Put him on the floor instead of Okafor, and you win fewer games not more games. Full stop.

Right now? Maybe. Two years from now? I seriously doubt it.

Big men don't stop improving at age 22. He'll get better. And moreover, as Nivek points out, most of his problems appear to be the type that can improve simply with maturity and proper coaching. He doesn't have to get physically better at any particular skill, he just has to be more selective about when to apply which skill.

Besides, Drummond and Sanders are unobtainable. Vucevic probably is too (and I don't think he is better than Cousins anyhow. Both Cousins and Vucevic have terrible teammates, but at least Cousins was able to drag his team to 28 wins in the West while Vucevic's team won just 20 in the East).

You have to be realistic. We need a big man who is young, has the innate physical talent to be an All Star caliber player, and is conceivably available. Cousins is one of the few players that meet those criteria.

[LyricalRico]

Why -- WHY! -- are so many of you drooling for Cousins? He hasn't been tremendously productive. And he's a problem child.

Doesn't mean he isn't a nice kid or that he isn't enormously talented. But he doesn't produce at the level of his "talent."

Most incomprehensible of all -- to me at least -- is the blind assumption that pairing him w/ Wall would instantly transform his play. Says who?

I'd much rather have Drummond, Sanders or Vucevic -- among the young Centers.

Never thought I'd say this after one of your posts, but...

Agree 1000%.

(Well, technically I'd put Monroe above the guys you listed as alternatives, but we're absolutely on the same page in not wanting Cousins. Of course I'd take my usual "wait and see" approach if we acquired him, but he's nowhere near the top of my list of guys I'd like the Wizards to go after. Especially if we're giving up picks. No thanks to that.)

[deneem4]

Why -- WHY! -- are so many of you drooling for Cousins? He hasn't been tremendously productive. And he's a problem child.

Doesn't mean he isn't a nice kid or that he isn't enormously talented. But he doesn't produce at the level of his "talent."

Most incomprehensible of all -- to me at least -- is the blind assumption that pairing him w/ Wall would instantly transform his play. Says who?

I'd much rather have Drummond, Sanders or Vucevic -- among the young Centers.

Cousins potential is unmatched....if u round up all the young big men and re draft them who would go 1st?...Sacramento is a horrible ran team right now...they screwed over tyreke who could've been a top 5 pg right now...cousins attitude iswild...but Iisnt tht the same with all great big men??? Bynum?...howard???..and the young shaq wasnt an easy going guy either...

[payitforward]

Cousins potential is unmatched....if u round up all the young big men and re draft them who would go 1st?...Sacramento is a horrible ran team right now...they screwed over tyreke who could've been a top 5 pg right now...cousins attitude iswild...but Iisnt tht the same with all great big men??? Bynum?...howard???..and the young shaq wasnt an easy going guy either...

"The young Shaq" produced from day one in the league. His rookie year, age 20, he was among the very best players in the league.

if you redrafted all the young bigs, Drummond would go first.

no, cousins' attitude is not 'the same with all great big men' -- and he's not "great" by any stretch of the imagination.

deneem -- why don't you put me on ignore and save me the trouble. You don't know what you're talking about.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Maybe something like Ariza, Seraphin, Singleton, with 2 1st rounders for Cousins and Salmons.

Sac gets 2 1st round picks, and outta Salmon's contract a year earlier to reboot. The 3 Wizards are all expiring. They could keep Seraphin and/or Singleton if they want to.

If Porter plays well Ariza is a logical part with his expiring, and his affection for Cal. Seraphin is expendable with Cousins coming in. Lose next 2 1st round picks, but they move forward with Cousins, Porter, Beal, Wall as their nucleus.

And it's crazy, but I could actually see Vesely fitting with that group. Those 4 can all score, Ves would just need to do the dirty work, hustle plays, defend, pass, dunk. He'd have Porter with his length and D next to him, Cousins & his physicality and offense there too.

[Ruzious]

Cousins potential is unmatched....if u round up all the young big men and re draft them who would go 1st?...Sacramento is a horrible ran team right now...they screwed over tyreke who could've been a top 5 pg right now...cousins attitude iswild...but Iisnt tht the same with all great big men??? Bynum?...howard???..and the young shaq wasnt an easy going guy either...

"The young Shaq" produced from day one in the league. His rookie year, age 20, he was among the very best players in the league.

if you redrafted all the young bigs, Drummond would go first.

no, cousins' attitude is not 'the same with all great big men' -- and he's not "great" by any stretch of the imagination.

deneem -- why don't you put me on ignore and save me the trouble. You don't know what you're talking about.

A couple years from now, I'm guessing you'll be saying - "By golly gosh, Cousins did turn out to be better than Drummond." And I'm saying that as someone who was a Drummond apologist - when he was putting up very mediocre offensive performances at UConn - and most stat guys didn't like him. I think he'll always be a low usage offensive player, because the skill instincts aren't there - unless you consider dunking a skill. And I think Monroe's performance regressed because of Drummond's lack of skill.

I know Kev said Cousins regressed last season, but his scoring efficiency percentages improved. If he stops taking the long jumpers, they'll improve more.