Political Roundtable Part XXVI

[Zonkerbl]

Innocent babies in the womb is a made up fantasy. Innocent children in jail are real. You're darn tootin they're not comparable.

[daoneandonly]

lol

"i'm going to own my mistakes, except there was no mistakes made, trump > hilary, and libs are babykillers. #accountability"

You missed the part where I agreed that Trump has said and continues to say moronic thing. But yeah, if on election day I still had the 4 terrible choices in front of me that i did that day, I'll take the lesser of 4 evils again.

so what exactly are you owning up to, and taking accountability/responsibility for?

what mistake are you taking a mea culpa to? because it doesn't sound like you think you did anything wrong.

Defending him when he says stupid things like the hurricane thing. I can stand by my vote, because it was the right vote, and not defend his at times moronic and ill advised rhetoric. And admit that he has major faults, unlike the progressive base with Sanders, Warren, or AOC who are portrayed as flawless.

I get it, now that STD is gone you need a conservative to belittle and attack. I actually did enjoy our debates from way back when, but ever since STD got banned, you've wanted to come at me, and that's fine, someone who's okay with killing babies, and in the same breath stands up for meth and coke heads isn't someone who's respect I crave.

And I'm not talking about this mild back & forth, I'm more referencing the others.

[daoneandonly]

Innocent babies in the womb is a made up fantasy. Innocent children in jail are real. Your darn tootin they're not comparable.

yeah it's a fantasy that a baby in a womb becomes one of those innocent babies in a cage, I guess they just magically appeared from thin air

[I_Like_Dirt]

And yet he is the most ethical? You can't admit that he is a conman who has no principles at all except self-promotion? It's not possible you got conned?

He might be getting conned but this isn't actually a good faith argument, whether he personally believes it or not. He's already made it clear. He isn't interested in seeing any action taken that would legitimately reduce the amounts of abortions. He's worried about his tax dollars being spent in a manner that might actually help someone else and not benefit him other than seeing less abortions, even though it's allegedly is his #1 goal that reigns supreme over all others. Instead, he's willing to gut the economy, create a situation where eventually his tax dollars are going to have to go up because the state is unsustainable, absolutely destroy the country in race relations, burn all alliances and tear everything to the ground because somehow that's an acceptable collateral cost in his quest to condemn and punish women who have abortions.

He'll chime in at this point saying how that's not true but it's a circular argument that we've been down repeatedly already. He doesn't want easier access to medical care and birth control, or increased maternal supports. He wants a legal argument that isn't going to prevent abortions any more than prohibition prevented alcohol. Are we going to have ICE but for abortions? How much infrastructure is going to have to be funded? How many legal fees paid? At what point do the costs outstrip the goal and can we start considering that maybe it isn't a zero sum game and helping others helps everyone? When he speaks to murderers, though, it's a great shield that allows him to not have to own all the other stuff going on because it's acceptable collateral damage in his quest to ban abortions and the distinction between banning and preventing abortions is totally lost.

[daoneandonly]

And yet he is the most ethical? You can't admit that he is a conman who has no principles at all except self-promotion? It's not possible you got conned?

He might be getting conned but this isn't actually a good faith argument, whether he personally believes it or not. He's already made it clear. He isn't interested in seeing any action taken that would legitimately reduce the amounts of abortions. He's worried about his tax dollars being spent in a manner that might actually help someone else and not benefit him other than seeing less abortions, even though it's allegedly is his #1 goal that reigns supreme over all others. Instead, he's willing to gut the economy, create a situation where eventually his tax dollars are going to have to go up because the state is unsustainable, absolutely destroy the country in race relations, burn all alliances and tear everything to the ground because somehow that's an acceptable collateral cost in his quest to condemn and punish women who have abortions.

He'll chime in at this point saying how that's not true but it's a circular argument that we've been down repeatedly already. He doesn't want easier access to medical care and birth control, or increased maternal supports. He wants a legal argument that isn't going to prevent abortions any more than prohibition prevented alcohol. Are we going to have ICE but for abortions? How much infrastructure is going to have to be funded? How many legal fees paid? At what point do the costs outstrip the goal and can we start considering that maybe it isn't a zero sum game and helping others helps everyone? When he speaks to murderers, though, it's a great shield that allows him to not have to own all the other stuff going on because it's acceptable collateral damage in his quest to ban abortions and the distinction between banning and preventing abortions is totally lost.

I like how you put He knowing I'm a guy, cause no one knows what you are. But one thing is certain, if you are a woman, you've had 3-4 abortions already, and if you're a man, you either supported and convinced your other half to have them.

The other stuff you mentioned is just noise

[I_Like_Dirt]

I like how you put He knowing I'm a guy, cause no one knows what you are. But one thing is certain, if you are a woman, you've had 3-4 abortions already, and if you're a man, you either supported and convinced your other half to have them.

The other stuff you mentioned is just noise

Incorrect on all counts - not that it matters. I'm a practicing Catholic, male, and my wife has never had an abortion. In fact, my youngest has trisomy 21 and we knew before birth and we were offered an abortion as an option and we declined - it was never a consideration for either of us. We went through with it knowing that my son would need open heart surgery at 6 months old. I just don't believe in punishing/criminalizing/condemning/judging those in situations that are so difficult that they have to consider or even opt to choose an abortion. These are intense, emotionally charged situations and I believe in loving everyone and judging not lest I be judged. I don't actually get the impression that you've actually been through anything of the sort and are living in a fantasyland where it's just some disposable easy-out option where there should be some sort of punishment for the woman but not the man for some odd reason. And yes, we've been down that road, we know where you stand. You think it isn't practical to try to enforce men's responsibilities but it's somehow practical to try and enforce women's responsibilities despite the fact that you aren't interested in taking steps to prevent abortion.

I suppose now you can say that I'm making all that up or whatever it is you do to rationalize this stuff. The bottom line, though, is that effectively punishing those in extremely difficult situations because of some internal anger I'm harboring. I am patently aware that there aren't nearly so many children with trisomy 21 out there and that abortions have a lot to do with that. I'm also aware that because of that reality, my son is probably going to get less funding for programs because something like autism that is getting increasingly over diagnosed but also can't be diagnosed before birth and therefore can't be "prevented" by abortion because there are going to be population dynamics which result in more people calling for supports for children with autism - even minor symptoms that are like some autistic tendencies - than they are for more serious issues that involve more care and more interventions (and trisomy 21 is far from the most intensive in that respect). I'm definitely for more supports for children with disabilities and their parents because for many reasons, including the fact that it would prevent some abortions. Banning abortions in cases like that is going to result in dead mothers and children alike. I can't in good conscience see how that's possibly a preferred option, particularly given all the ongoing collateral costs we're seeing because of it, when actually helping others would benefit everyone and get better results with significantly lesser costs at this point.

[queridiculo]

Not much room for compassion and altruism when you see the world through binary lenses.

It just hurts the brain too much to conceive of situations that aren't black or white.

[Zonkerbl]

Innocent babies in the womb is a made up fantasy. Innocent children in jail are real. Your darn tootin they're not comparable.

yeah it's a fantasy that a baby in a womb becomes one of those innocent babies in a cage, I guess they just magically appeared from thin air

Trump put the innocent babies in cages. Republican propagandists put the fantasy of innocent babies in the womb in your head. As we can see from your "well the ends justifies the means" defense of Trump, it makes you very easy to manipulate.

Trump HATES you. And he thinks your little delusion about defenseless womb babies makes you an easy mark. And he took you and your fellow sleepwalkers for $1.5 TRILLION.

Enjoy treating women like property though. It's *your* fault, and people like you, that one in four women in this country get raped. Don't come whining to me when it's your daughters turn. I pity her. Although I imagine what will happen when some prick like you who thinks women should be treated like property rapes her and gets her pregnant, you'll make an exception to your strongly held beliefs and *force* her to get an abortion, make her pay for it, and tell her it's her fault for dressing like a slut, even though it was a friend of hers who she thought was safe. Because these rules you scream for don't apply to you but to women who are poorer and browner than you.

[Zonkerbl]

More evidence Trump HATES the idiots who voted for him:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/08/27/donald-trump-ethanol-waivers-farm-country-lose-support-president-election-voters-farmers/2129161001/

At the petroleum companies request he's WAIVING the requirement that gasoline have 10% corn based ethanol in it, which will cause corn prices to PLUMMET

[pancakes3]

ILD - my heart goes out to you, man. I hate that you felt the need to show your credentials and share something that personal with the board, just to prove a point to someone that doesn't deserve the time of day.

[Pointgod]

And if baby killing is the only issue does anyone really think that Trump who pays porn stars to keep silent has never and would never pay a woman to have an abortion?

When he was directly asked the question he dodged it. Here's one of those dodges:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/02/donald-trump-marueen-dowd-interview-abortion-past-partners



And then there's this:

Watch on YouTube

A stance that only changed when he ran for president.

daoneandonly absolutely got wrecked. Wow. So much for caring about those innocent babies and Religious values (of course except for when babies are thrown in cages)

Wrecked how? He admitted during the primaries he was once pro choice and had a change of heart. Whether he can be trusted or not is one thing, but like doc said in the post below, he got 2 people on the Supreme Court that I wanted, so my support and vote played out as I wanted.

And again, stop bringing up innocent babies in cages when you support innocent babies being decimated in the womb, one doesn't Trump the other, pun intended.

Donald Trump was pro choice and has definitely paid for an abortion or hundred. Ergo you support a baby killer. I don’t know how the a rapist is the most ethical person who was running for President. Just stop with the act like you support Trump because of some moral or religious values. Just admit that you’re a partisan and right wing judges we’re all that matter to you because you hate women. You’ve demonstrated that you’ve abandoned your Christian values long ago by supporting and continuing to support a man who’s the perfect example of a false prophet who’s act goes against all the teachings of Christ.

[Bonscott]

Hey guys !!!!
This is my first post and probably my last as it will probably get me banned,I read a lot of the posts in this thread so I know anyone who has different thoughts or ideas are quickly banished
!. Why do you talk so much about children in cages but you didn't have a problem with it when Obama was doing it?
2.You talk about Trump not being faithful to his wife but it was no problem when it was Clinton?
HRC had Benghazi Uranium one and the Hillary victory fund
I'm not saying Trump is great,honest or a perfect guy but good lord open your eyes
Also instead of blaming Trump you need to be mad at the democrat nitwits in DC for not putting anybody decent against him
But at least it's good to see that most of the people here see what an idiot Biden is so the next election should be a better choice

[daoneandonly]

I like how you put He knowing I'm a guy, cause no one knows what you are. But one thing is certain, if you are a woman, you've had 3-4 abortions already, and if you're a man, you either supported and convinced your other half to have them.

The other stuff you mentioned is just noise

Incorrect on all counts - not that it matters. I'm a practicing Catholic, male, and my wife has never had an abortion. In fact, my youngest has trisomy 21 and we knew before birth and we were offered an abortion as an option and we declined - it was never a consideration for either of us. We went through with it knowing that my son would need open heart surgery at 6 months old. I just don't believe in punishing/criminalizing/condemning/judging those in situations that are so difficult that they have to consider or even opt to choose an abortion. These are intense, emotionally charged situations and I believe in loving everyone and judging not lest I be judged. I don't actually get the impression that you've actually been through anything of the sort and are living in a fantasyland where it's just some disposable easy-out option where there should be some sort of punishment for the woman but not the man for some odd reason. And yes, we've been down that road, we know where you stand. You think it isn't practical to try to enforce men's responsibilities but it's somehow practical to try and enforce women's responsibilities despite the fact that you aren't interested in taking steps to prevent abortion.

I suppose now you can say that I'm making all that up or whatever it is you do to rationalize this stuff. The bottom line, though, is that effectively punishing those in extremely difficult situations because of some internal anger I'm harboring. I am patently aware that there aren't nearly so many children with trisomy 21 out there and that abortions have a lot to do with that. I'm also aware that because of that reality, my son is probably going to get less funding for programs because something like autism that is getting increasingly over diagnosed but also can't be diagnosed before birth and therefore can't be "prevented" by abortion because there are going to be population dynamics which result in more people calling for supports for children with autism - even minor symptoms that are like some autistic tendencies - than they are for more serious issues that involve more care and more interventions (and trisomy 21 is far from the most intensive in that respect). I'm definitely for more supports for children with disabilities and their parents because for many reasons, including the fact that it would prevent some abortions. Banning abortions in cases like that is going to result in dead mothers and children alike. I can't in good conscience see how that's possibly a preferred option, particularly given all the ongoing collateral costs we're seeing because of it, when actually helping others would benefit everyone and get better results with significantly lesser costs at this point.

What you went through Dirt, no person ever should have to. We disagree on a lot and you have every reason to doubt my sincerity, but I am sorry for that your son and your fa had to endure what you did.

There's a massive difference between those who have to make that decision because the mother or the baby's life is in danger, and those that simply had an accidental pregnancy and can't own up their actions. The former is a circumstance through no fault of their own, the latter is not.

There's no punishing women syndrome here, thats what libs like Zonk, Point, and pancake like to go to because its a nice sound clip and gets some women out to vote.

Anyways I made an incorrect assumption about you, so I'll apologize for that.

[daoneandonly]

daoneandonly absolutely got wrecked. Wow. So much for caring about those innocent babies and Religious values (of course except for when babies are thrown in cages)

Wrecked how? He admitted during the primaries he was once pro choice and had a change of heart. Whether he can be trusted or not is one thing, but like doc said in the post below, he got 2 people on the Supreme Court that I wanted, so my support and vote played out as I wanted.

And again, stop bringing up innocent babies in cages when you support innocent babies being decimated in the womb, one doesn't Trump the other, pun intended.

Donald Trump was pro choice and has definitely paid for an abortion or hundred. Ergo you support a baby killer. I don’t know how the a rapist is the most ethical person who was running for President. Just stop with the act like you support Trump because of some moral or religious values. Just admit that you’re a partisan and right wing judges we’re all that matter to you because you hate women. You’ve demonstrated that you’ve abandoned your Christian values long ago by supporting and continuing to support a man who’s the perfect example of a false prophet who’s act goes against all the teachings of Christ.

Definitely paid for an abortion or a hundred? Show proof of that, otherwise its just foolish, hateful hearsay.

[daoneandonly]

Innocent babies in the womb is a made up fantasy. Innocent children in jail are real. Your darn tootin they're not comparable.

yeah it's a fantasy that a baby in a womb becomes one of those innocent babies in a cage, I guess they just magically appeared from thin air

Trump put the innocent babies in cages. Republican propagandists put the fantasy of innocent babies in the womb in your head. As we can see from your "well the ends justifies the means" defense of Trump, it makes you very easy to manipulate.

Trump HATES you. And he thinks your little delusion about defenseless womb babies makes you an easy mark. And he took you and your fellow sleepwalkers for $1.5 TRILLION.

Enjoy treating women like property though. It's *your* fault, and people like you, that one in four women in this country get raped. Don't come whining to me when it's your daughters turn. I pity her. Although I imagine what will happen when some prick like you who thinks women should be treated like property rapes her and gets her pregnant, you'll make an exception to your strongly held beliefs and *force* her to get an abortion, make her pay for it, and tell her it's her fault for dressing like a slut, even though it was a friend of hers who she thought was safe. Because these rules you scream for don't apply to you but to women who are poorer and browner than you.

You're full of hate, the best day in RealGM history was the day you retired as a mod. Protecting the life of a child isn't treating women like property, what a mindless argument. And your mention of a family member of mine getting raped or me raping someone just shows how classless you and a good chunk of the give me my freebies left really are

But you'll be happy in 2020, you can stay in your 12% tax bracket while some of us fork over 28%, because its the moral, selfless thing to do, yet allowing a baby to have a chance at life, not so much.

[doclinkin]

Thank you for sharing this, I can respect much of it

Of the 4 that was on the MD ballot that day, yes he was the most ethical. That's says more about the other 3 than it does about him.

Like I said, I was supporting John Kasich, he was qualified as a governor of Ohio, principled, and had the right demeanor. The overflow of candidates in the 2016 election essentially gave Trump the nod, same will happen to the left, and I know they'll win regardless of who it is.

College is way too darn expensive, I agree with you there.

I also agree with you on folks who become addicted to drugs because of the doctors and pharma who exploit their suffering. But you and pancake are ignoring a massive population, what about people addicted to cocaine, meth, heroin? Did doctors prescribe those? No, those folks chose to make a choice, a deliberate choice

I have to get to a meeting, but I'd like to address the rest later.

Of the ones I cited, two of those above ended up tracking down street drugs after addiction had a hold of them. One ended up homeless. Of the others only one I know of has remained sober still, most remain on prescriptions for a changing series of ailments that amount basically to the pain of withdrawal and dependency.

My brother has a clinic that treats addicts with suboxone, which weans them from addiction by blocking the ability to get high from opioids. Combined with therapy it has proven more effective than any other treatment (save poorly tested methods like MDMA therapy for PTSD (to cure the causes of addictive impulses) or guided usage of Ibogaine. Anecdotal evidence and limited studies suggestive but unproven). But by federal law has a limit on the number of patients a clinic like this can treat so many addicts go untreated after their doctors get them hooked. Those addicts will find other means to feed that hunger. It really doesn't work to say; "They should just stop". Of the people in the treatment program of my homeless friend, one died in withdrawal. For the others it just feels like death.

Understand studies have shown that the first real use of these narcotics can release so many endorphins in your brain all at once that you literally will never be able to feel that happy again. This is what addicts are chasing. Whether they were stupid kids who tried something or whether they were a pro athlete prescribed something for injury or some guy in a terrible neighborhood who had a mess of bad choices in front of them.

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5) classifies addiction as a disease. This is the book all psychiatrists use for diagnosis and treatment of illness. You deciding there are better or worse classes of addicts is beside the point as far as the American Psychiatric Association is concerned. Who are you or I to say we know better than trained doctors?

There are dozens of on-ramps to addiction, some are choice some are not. But all are destructive and have the same result. If we remove the stigma of treatment and cure anyone who needs it then we will remove the massive drain on society and give people a chance to be productive workers.

Anyway, we were only talking about Opioids. Not cocaine or Meth, which have not quite hit a surge to be considered an epidemic in the way opiate addiction has. I personally side with the American Psychiatric Association who think there should be better public health and treatment for addictions of any kind, whatever the cause. But that is not what would be addressed by President Warren's plan.

[Pointgod]

Hey guys !!!!
This is my first post and probably my last as it will probably get me banned,I read a lot of the posts in this thread so I know anyone who has different thoughts or ideas are quickly banished
!. Why do you talk so much about children in cages but you didn't have a problem with it when Obama was doing it?
2.You talk about Trump not being faithful to his wife but it was no problem when it was Clinton?
HRC had Benghazi Uranium one and the Hillary victory fund
I'm not saying Trump is great,honest or a perfect guy but good lord open your eyes
Also instead of blaming Trump you need to be mad at the democrat nitwits in DC for not putting anybody decent against him
But at least it's good to see that most of the people here see what an idiot Biden is so the next election should be a better choice

Let me give you a quick answer to this random diarrhea you just spread all over the place. Everything you’ve posted is a lie or has been debunked and you’re a complete idiot. Don’t bother coming back.

[Pointgod]

Wrecked how? He admitted during the primaries he was once pro choice and had a change of heart. Whether he can be trusted or not is one thing, but like doc said in the post below, he got 2 people on the Supreme Court that I wanted, so my support and vote played out as I wanted.

And again, stop bringing up innocent babies in cages when you support innocent babies being decimated in the womb, one doesn't Trump the other, pun intended.

Donald Trump was pro choice and has definitely paid for an abortion or hundred. Ergo you support a baby killer. I don’t know how the a rapist is the most ethical person who was running for President. Just stop with the act like you support Trump because of some moral or religious values. Just admit that you’re a partisan and right wing judges we’re all that matter to you because you hate women. You’ve demonstrated that you’ve abandoned your Christian values long ago by supporting and continuing to support a man who’s the perfect example of a false prophet who’s act goes against all the teachings of Christ.

Definitely paid for an abortion or a hundred? Show proof of that, otherwise its just foolish, hateful hearsay.

So your only answer is show proof that Trump has paid for an abortion? The guy couldn’t answer a simple question when asked! I mean it must be hard to admit that all the bull you tell yourself about morals and religious values went out the door when you voted for Trump but even you know that the guy has paid for abortions. We already know he likes to raw dog pornstars. So you’re just fine with supporting an admitted rapist. Gotcha

[gtn130]

Hey guys !!!!
This is my first post and probably my last as it will probably get me banned,I read a lot of the posts in this thread so I know anyone who has different thoughts or ideas are quickly banished
!. Why do you talk so much about children in cages but you didn't have a problem with it when Obama was doing it?
2.You talk about Trump not being faithful to his wife but it was no problem when it was Clinton?
HRC had Benghazi Uranium one and the Hillary victory fund
I'm not saying Trump is great,honest or a perfect guy but good lord open your eyes
Also instead of blaming Trump you need to be mad at the democrat nitwits in DC for not putting anybody decent against him
But at least it's good to see that most of the people here see what an idiot Biden is so the next election should be a better choice

The reason you're confused is that you consume right-wing media. Your entire world view is determined by outright propaganda. Hope that helps.

[Bonscott]

Hey guys !!!!
This is my first post and probably my last as it will probably get me banned,I read a lot of the posts in this thread so I know anyone who has different thoughts or ideas are quickly banished
!. Why do you talk so much about children in cages but you didn't have a problem with it when Obama was doing it?
2.You talk about Trump not being faithful to his wife but it was no problem when it was Clinton?
HRC had Benghazi Uranium one and the Hillary victory fund
I'm not saying Trump is great,honest or a perfect guy but good lord open your eyes
Also instead of blaming Trump you need to be mad at the democrat nitwits in DC for not putting anybody decent against him
But at least it's good to see that most of the people here see what an idiot Biden is so the next election should be a better choice

Let me give you a quick answer to this random diarrhea you just spread all over the place. Everything you’ve posted is a lie or has been debunked and you’re a complete idiot. Don’t bother coming back.

Everything I posted is a lie ??? Do some fact checking there kiddo but you're a typical democrat so the ignorance is understandable