Official Trade Thread XIV: 6/14/10 - 12/22/10

[LyricalRico]

I don't love that Rico. That's an awful lot of money to be paying Brand and Rip. I can buy the idea of trading Arenas for one of those guys because it's a lateral move capwise. But to also trade Hinrich's short contract for the other, that's where I draw the line.

That trade weds us to that team for the next 3 full years. There is no cap room flexibility and very little trade flexibility. We'll be better, surely, but not THAT much better. And additional improvements out of Wall, McGee and Blatche would be offset by the steady decline of Brand and Rip.

At this point, I don't care about cap flexibility any more. Dwight Howard isn't signing here, and there's nobody in the next draft that's worth tanking for (at least when it comes to our positions of need). Besides, Wall's probably going to lose a leg to our medical staff. And if he doesn't, he'll sure use his legs walk right out the door when his contract is done. No reason for him to stick around on a sinking ship that is slowly crippling him. So let's just get some vets and compete for the 8th spot so we can at least have some mediocrity before continuing our fall deeper into the abyss.

[AceDegenerate]

I don't love that Rico. That's an awful lot of money to be paying Brand and Rip. I can buy the idea of trading Arenas for one of those guys because it's a lateral move capwise. But to also trade Hinrich's short contract for the other, that's where I draw the line.

That trade weds us to that team for the next 3 full years. There is no cap room flexibility and very little trade flexibility. We'll be better, surely, but not THAT much better. And additional improvements out of Wall, McGee and Blatche would be offset by the steady decline of Brand and Rip.

At this point, I don't care about cap flexibility any more. Dwight Howard isn't signing here, and there's nobody in the next draft that's worth tanking for (at least when it comes to our positions of need). Besides, Wall's probably going to lose a leg to our medical staff. And if he doesn't, he'll sure use his legs walk right out the door when his contract is done. No reason for him to stick around on a sinking ship that is slowly crippling him. So let's just get some vets and compete for the 8th spot so we can at least have some mediocrity before continuing our fall deeper into the abyss.

I think we probably could have kept Stevenson, Butler and Jamison and probably still ended up with a poor enough record to land Wall if we were going to follow this approach.

[hands11]

Nate, I like the Roy trade from our perspective, but why on earth would Portland do it? They would be taking the same injury risk on a more expensive contract, for an older player that is not of equal value when you consider the defensive end of the court. Finally, Portland would probably have even more chemistry issues with a Miller/Arenas backcourt than a Miller/Roy backcourt.

Miller's contract next year isn't fully guaranteed and they do have a swingman logjam (Matthew, Batum, Fernandez, Babbitt). They could waive Miller (making is salary neutral in the short-term), put Gil at PG and then have minutes for all their young players.

SF - Batum/Babbitt
SG - Matthew/Fernandez
PG - Arenas/??? (maybe they bring Koponnen over)

That squad could probably play more up-tempo instead of standing and watching Roy pound the ball in the half-court. And they'd be pretty long on the defensive end.

The thing that gives me pause from a Wiz perspective is why would Portland add salary in a Roy trade unless they were convinced that his knees were done?

And how would Roy pounding the ball in half court be good for our team ? We just got done teaching Nick to not do that and everyone complains about Kirk doing it to much.

[nate33]

The thing that gives me pause from a Wiz perspective is why would Portland add salary in a Roy trade unless they were convinced that his knees were done?

Portland saves salary. Arenas costs more per year, but Roy is owed more overall because his contract lasts a year longer.

[hands11]

I don't love that Rico. That's an awful lot of money to be paying Brand and Rip. I can buy the idea of trading Arenas for one of those guys because it's a lateral move capwise. But to also trade Hinrich's short contract for the other, that's where I draw the line.

That trade weds us to that team for the next 3 full years. There is no cap room flexibility and very little trade flexibility. We'll be better, surely, but not THAT much better. And additional improvements out of Wall, McGee and Blatche would be offset by the steady decline of Brand and Rip.

At this point, I don't care about cap flexibility any more. Dwight Howard isn't signing here, and there's nobody in the next draft that's worth tanking for (at least when it comes to our positions of need). Besides, Wall's probably going to lose a leg to our medical staff. And if he doesn't, he'll sure use his legs walk right out the door when his contract is done. No reason for him to stick around on a sinking ship that is slowly crippling him. So let's just get some vets and compete for the 8th spot so we can at least have some mediocrity before continuing our fall deeper into the abyss.

Sounds like your ready for the MELO CHANT.

WE WANT MELO
WE WANT MELO

Hey, we got the first round pick and he looks like a valuable asset. Why take that off the table when what we really need is a star SF or SG/SF ?

We have role players. We have young vets who can still step up. To be a top team you have to go against Miami with 3 stars, Boston with it again group of stars, and LA. Plus a Durrant team. Those teams are going to good for several more years. And SA even still has it going.

I'm not a Chicago believer. Why, I don't think Deng is a good enough SF. So what about D Rose. Lets see him do it in the playoffs. Dallas has the same problem. CB/Marion combo with Dirke would mayyyybe do it but that is a good example. They have pretty much everything else you need but just a step away because they don't have that player.

You have to remember what that Championship games look like. Ever shot and pass is contested. This is what this one kind of player matter so much. He is the one player who can do it all without needing to pass. He can get that last second shot. Melo has played this role before and did it well.

Actually, if Melo goes to NY, I hope we get Chandler but then again you have to ask, if Chandler was enough, why would they want Melo ? I haven't seen Chandler enough to know that answer. Can he take is 1 on 3 ? Because is the skill you need. Like those top players I mentioned.

8 in a row now. And he is younger and less expensive.

So if they decide they don't need him, I would definitely take him here. If they think he is enough, Melo isn't going to NY.

[no D in Hibachi]

The thing that gives me pause from a Wiz perspective is why would Portland add salary in a Roy trade unless they were convinced that his knees were done?

Portland saves salary. Arenas costs more per year, but Roy is owed more overall because his contract lasts a year longer.

Isn't that the argument that people give when they say the Wiz should trade Arenas for Lewis?

Honestly I don't see why Portland would give up Roy for Arenas. No matter Roys health concerns Arenas flat out stinks. I'd rather hold out to see if Roy can regain health rather than hoping Arenas regains his game and remains healthy. This season has been an epic dissaster for Arenas. It's amazing, he's proven that he's healthy and his trade value actually has gone down this season. Wasn't the only major concern health going into this season for him?

[Hoopalotta]

I'm biased on the Roy trade as he's one of my least favorite players in the league, but I think his situation is worse than Gil's from a health standpoint to where he's a legit threat at a medical retirement before that contract ends. Is it no cartilage in both knees? That's not going to improve. And oh, by the way, his deal's uninsured, at least on the knees.

It's a total disaster. At least Gil's healthy and will probably improve at least a bit while I'd expect Roy to just fall off from here.

That dude can be an incredibly pissy diva too. When things aren't arranged just right as far as static spot up shooters riding him like barnacles, he's venting to the org and the press. He basically demands that everyone else plays his style and he's pathological about it. He's a real basket case in trying to adjust to his falloff too; Terrible fit with a ball dominant fast-break point too - he just about demands to play at the slowest pace in the league. Gil's "I'm Hoping to move on" bit is piña coladas on the beach compared with Roy's act.

I realize the Gil situation is a big problem, but I just see this one ending in outright disaster.

Hamilton and Brand is well out for me too, probably being worse than even something as catastrophic as a buyout.

[fugop]

Blatche for Xavier Henry and Hasheem Thabeet.

[Wizardspride]

Blatche for Xavier Henry and Hasheem Thabeet.

I'll pass on that deal but I'm probably higher on Blatche than most of you guys.

[Hoopalotta]

I don't love that Rico. That's an awful lot of money to be paying Brand and Rip. I can buy the idea of trading Arenas for one of those guys because it's a lateral move capwise. But to also trade Hinrich's short contract for the other, that's where I draw the line.

That trade weds us to that team for the next 3 full years. There is no cap room flexibility and very little trade flexibility. We'll be better, surely, but not THAT much better. And additional improvements out of Wall, McGee and Blatche would be offset by the steady decline of Brand and Rip.

At this point, I don't care about cap flexibility any more. Dwight Howard isn't signing here, and there's nobody in the next draft that's worth tanking for (at least when it comes to our positions of need). Besides, Wall's probably going to lose a leg to our medical staff. And if he doesn't, he'll sure use his legs walk right out the door when his contract is done. No reason for him to stick around on a sinking ship that is slowly crippling him. So let's just get some vets and compete for the 8th spot so we can at least have some mediocrity before continuing our fall deeper into the abyss.

The Great Ernie would be ashamed to hear you talking like that, Rico. What happened to capping posts with "Go Wiz!"? The situation isn't great, but it's not nearly that bad. Wall's going to want to stay or leave based on our outlook for the future, not because he's holding a grudge three years out over how bad we were in his rookie year. The only thing I'd agree with is that we should be willing to cap ourselves out instead of going skeleton crew for multiple years on a loose hope, but I wouldn't do it like that.

And I don't know who all's going to declare for the draft and there might not be a legit franchise guy at the top, but it's looking like a respectable class to have a pick in that top 5 range, which sounds like a better bet to me than an all or nothing ping-pong bounce.

[Hoopalotta]

Blatche for Xavier Henry and Hasheem Thabeet.

I'll pass on that deal but I'm probably higher on Blatche than most of you guys.

And we've already got two young centers anyway, both of whom are more interesting than Thabs......

[verbal8]

Gil/Kirk
NY/Martin
Melo/Howard/Gee
Dray/Booker/Yi
McGee/Seraphin

Hamady

Is that much better than Gil/Mike Miller/Butler/Jamison/Haywood/Blatche/Nick Young/McGee/Foye ?

Maybe that example was a little extreme, but my main point is a team that looks good on paper might not be that good.

I think the 2006-7(41-41)Wizards would be the best comparison to that team.

Arenas(in his prime) = Melo
Jamison(in his prime) = Dray
Butler(in his prime) = Arenas(in decline)
Haywood > McGee(still developing)
Stevenson < Nick Young
Hayes < Howard
Daniels = Kirk
Etan(peak) = Seraphin(still developing)

I think the average NBA team has improved(especially the East) since 2006-7, so though the team would be slightly better so is the competition. I don't think the bottom of the play-offs is worth giving up Wall.

[LyricalRico]

I don't love that Rico. That's an awful lot of money to be paying Brand and Rip. I can buy the idea of trading Arenas for one of those guys because it's a lateral move capwise. But to also trade Hinrich's short contract for the other, that's where I draw the line.

That trade weds us to that team for the next 3 full years. There is no cap room flexibility and very little trade flexibility. We'll be better, surely, but not THAT much better. And additional improvements out of Wall, McGee and Blatche would be offset by the steady decline of Brand and Rip.

At this point, I don't care about cap flexibility any more. Dwight Howard isn't signing here, and there's nobody in the next draft that's worth tanking for (at least when it comes to our positions of need). Besides, Wall's probably going to lose a leg to our medical staff. And if he doesn't, he'll sure use his legs walk right out the door when his contract is done. No reason for him to stick around on a sinking ship that is slowly crippling him. So let's just get some vets and compete for the 8th spot so we can at least have some mediocrity before continuing our fall deeper into the abyss.

The Great Ernie would be ashamed to hear you talking like that, Rico. What happened to capping posts with "Go Wiz!"? The situation isn't great, but it's not nearly that bad. Wall's going to want to stay or leave based on our outlook for the future, not because he's holding a grudge three years out over how bad we were in his rookie year. The only thing I'd agree with is that we should be willing to cap ourselves out instead of going skeleton crew for multiple years on a loose hope, but I wouldn't do it like that.

And I don't know who all's going to declare for the draft and there might not be a legit franchise guy at the top, but it's looking like a respectable class to have a pick in that top 5 range, which sounds like a better bet to me than an all or nothing ping-pong bounce.

Bah humbug!

[nate33]

I think the 2006-7(41-41)Wizards would be the best comparison to that team.

Arenas(in his prime) = Melo
Jamison(in his prime) = Dray
Butler(in his prime) = Arenas(in decline)
Haywood > McGee(still developing)
Stevenson < Nick Young
Hayes < Howard
Daniels = Kirk
Etan(peak) = Seraphin(still developing)

I think the average NBA team has improved(especially the East) since 2006-7, so though the team would be slightly better so is the competition. I don't think the bottom of the play-offs is worth giving up Wall.

Wow! That's a really good comparison. Throw in the fact that Blatche isn't as consistent as Jamison and we're talking about a pretty mediocre ball club. I'd say prime Jamison > current Dray (at least the Dray we've seen this year). Prime Butler (in the Princeton) is better than current Arenas. And Prime Haywood is better than McGee. When you look at it that way, it's really not encouraging at all.

[Dat2U]

I don't love that Rico. That's an awful lot of money to be paying Brand and Rip. I can buy the idea of trading Arenas for one of those guys because it's a lateral move capwise. But to also trade Hinrich's short contract for the other, that's where I draw the line.

That trade weds us to that team for the next 3 full years. There is no cap room flexibility and very little trade flexibility. We'll be better, surely, but not THAT much better. And additional improvements out of Wall, McGee and Blatche would be offset by the steady decline of Brand and Rip.

At this point, I don't care about cap flexibility any more. Dwight Howard isn't signing here, and there's nobody in the next draft that's worth tanking for (at least when it comes to our positions of need). Besides, Wall's probably going to lose a leg to our medical staff. And if he doesn't, he'll sure use his legs walk right out the door when his contract is done. No reason for him to stick around on a sinking ship that is slowly crippling him. So let's just get some vets and compete for the 8th spot so we can at least have some mediocrity before continuing our fall deeper into the abyss.

Your an Ernie man? This sounds more like classic Wes Unseld GM'ing to me.

[hands11]

I think the 2006-7(41-41)Wizards would be the best comparison to that team.

Arenas(in his prime) = Melo
Jamison(in his prime) = Dray
Butler(in his prime) = Arenas(in decline)
Haywood > McGee(still developing)
Stevenson < Nick Young
Hayes < Howard
Daniels = Kirk
Etan(peak) = Seraphin(still developing)

I think the average NBA team has improved(especially the East) since 2006-7, so though the team would be slightly better so is the competition. I don't think the bottom of the play-offs is worth giving up Wall.

Wow! That's a really good comparison. Throw in the fact that Blatche isn't as consistent as Jamison and we're talking about a pretty mediocre ball club. I'd say prime Jamison > current Dray (at least the Dray we've seen this year). Prime Butler (in the Princeton) is better than current Arenas. And Prime Haywood is better than McGee. When you look at it that way, it's really not encouraging at all.

A good comparison ? Really ? For shame. I expect better from you that that.

Go back and read mine. I think it was way more on the mark.
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1036107&start=990

Gil and Melo. You can't even compare those two. Melo is a SF. Now if your only talking star power than maybe but come on.

AJ at PF was one of the keys to this team dysfunction and AJ played 0 defense. Dray has been injured this year. Give the kid a break. Dray is a much better fit at PF. He has the height. He has handles AJ didn't have. You comparing a much more seasoned AJ against a Dray who is just starting at PF full time for his first season and he is injured. And Dray can also play C. Short term and longer, Dray is a way better fit and he cost less. And he is only 24. He hasn't even peaked yet.

CB vs Gil. Again, they don't even play the same position. Well, if you are saying CB as a SG and Gil as one also I guess.

Haywood vs McGee - I said this goes to Haywood but McGee is a freak athlete at 7-1 and just starting to get it. Just starting.

I lost how you would see that as a very good comparison when it was actually kind of terrible.

[Ruzious]

Wilson Chandler's been mentioned a lot, and I'd like to get him and Tyson Chandler. But... unfortunately, I think we need to look a little longer-term and wait another year before using up the cap space. 2 more high lottoes combined with usage of the cap space in 2012 (via free agency or trade) is what we probably need to go through to build a future championship. Yeah, we can go for the quick fix and contend for a playoff spot, but that doesn't cut it for me. I understand there's no guarantee of great success with that long-term plan, but ya gotta try, imo.

[fishercob]

Wilson Chandler's been mentioned a lot, and I'd like to get him and Tyson Chandler. But... unfortunately, I think we need to look a little longer-term and wait another year before using up the cap space. 2 more high lottoes combined with usage of the cap space in 2012 (via free agency or trade) is what we probably need to go through to build a future championship. Yeah, we can go for the quick fix and contend for a playoff spot, but that doesn't cut it for me. I understand there's no guarantee of great success with that long-term plan, but ya gotta try, imo.

Good point. The Knicks drafted and developed Chandler. They found and are developing Fields. Amare and Felton are obviously huge pieces to the puzzle, but their awesome young role players are a huge part of their early success. Time and patience....

[hands11]

Wilson Chandler's been mentioned a lot, and I'd like to get him and Tyson Chandler. But... unfortunately, I think we need to look a little longer-term and wait another year before using up the cap space. 2 more high lottoes combined with usage of the cap space in 2012 (via free agency or trade) is what we probably need to go through to build a future championship. Yeah, we can go for the quick fix and contend for a playoff spot, but that doesn't cut it for me. I understand there's no guarantee of great success with that long-term plan, but ya gotta try, imo.

Good point. The Knicks drafted and developed Chandler. They found and are developing Fields. Amare and Felton are obviously huge pieces to the puzzle, but their awesome young role players are a huge part of their early success. Time and patience....

Why not bring Chandler now. He is the right age and has some seasoning. No way the kid will want to stay in NY if they bring Melo on. I would love to see him fired up going head to head against Melo who took his spot.

God I so want a really talented SF on this team who has a full complete game and who can finish strong at the hoop. It is so sorely lacking and has been for a while. Short of CB at this best.

Man it pisses me off we never got the see Gil, CB, Dray and Haywood

Imagine that now with Nick playing like he is. Gil, Nick, CB, Dray, Haywood

But Chandler is way more explosive. I would get him if we can.

[DMVleGeND]

Wilson Chandler's been mentioned a lot, and I'd like to get him and Tyson Chandler. But... unfortunately, I think we need to look a little longer-term and wait another year before using up the cap space. 2 more high lottoes combined with usage of the cap space in 2012 (via free agency or trade) is what we probably need to go through to build a future championship. Yeah, we can go for the quick fix and contend for a playoff spot, but that doesn't cut it for me. I understand there's no guarantee of great success with that long-term plan, but ya gotta try, imo.

Good point. The Knicks drafted and developed Chandler. They found and are developing Fields. Amare and Felton are obviously huge pieces to the puzzle, but their awesome young role players are a huge part of their early success. Time and patience....

Why not bring Chandler now. He is the right ago and have some seasoning. No way the kid will want to stay in NY if they bring Melo on. I would love to see him fired up going head to head against Melo who took his spot.

I would love for the Wizards to acquire Chandler. He has been very consistent this season. He is very explosive, can shoot, and can even play PF if your lineup goes small. I think he will leave, because I think that Carmelo definitely goes to NY, whether it's in a trade or as a free agent signing in the offseason, and Chandler would definitely not want to compete with Carmelo like you said. But even if we don't get Chandler, luckily, this year's draft is full of franchise SF in Terrence Jones, Perry Jones, and Harrison Barnes, and we will have a lottery pick, likely top 5.

God I so want a really talented SF on this team who has a full complete game and who can finish strong at the hoop. It is so sorely lacking and has been for a while. Short of CB at this best.

Man it pisses me off we never got the see Gil, CB, Dray and Haywood

Imagine that now with Nick playing like he is. Gil, Nick, CB, Dray, Haywood

But Chandler is way more explosive. I would get him if we can.