Political Roundtable Part XVII

[Zonkerbl]

I mean this is the thing about Trump. He's revealing the weak points of our Democracy, sometimes innocently and sometimes malignantly. We need to stop shouting insults at each other for a second and reflect on what's going on.

[stilldropin20]

Everyone pay attention. Posters on this board explains why the Republicans continue to screw their voters but still stay in power. These guys aren't living in reality and will swallow whatever their right wing overloads feed them. On one hand they're against spying when Obama's administration, but they'll gladly support Dear Leader Trump if he spys on his political opponents.

Everyone pay attention. Posters on this board explains why the Democrats continue to screw their voters but still stay in power. These guys aren't living in reality and will swallow whatever their left wing overlords feed them. On one hand they're against spying when it's Bush's administration looking for terrorists, but they'll gladly support Dear Leader Obama if he spies on his political opponents.

Amen. liberals are so phucking lost, man. So gotdammed lost!!! you have been purposefully misled for ages. Ages!!!!

you cant serve 2 masters rich and poor. its not phucking possible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

they dont represent you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dckingsfan]

Do you guys think the Ds should shut down the government over the dreamers? Would this help or hurt at the mid-terms?

The Democratic base want politicians that will stick to their convictions and fight for something. Democrats have been winning elections all over the place not because they're running on compromise. Republicans control all 3 branches of government. It's not Democrats shutting down the government but the Republicans inability to lead and control their party. There is a solution here but the Republicans are too disorganized and chaotic get there.

So, yes - don't vote for the continuing resolution unless they get what they want on DACA?

[Pointgod]

Nate seems so very deeply worried about THE LEAKERS and ILLEGAL DATA COLLECTION yet cares little for the actual crimes being investigated. Very strange! It's almost as if he's arguing in bad faith or something

Well, its both right? Actually 3 things. It seems like Trump and his election team has some problems, Russia is really good at exploiting us to lauder money and the previous administration/HRC campaign may have stepped outside the lines.

I think it is good to be worried about all three.

This is the Susan Rice unmasking the remix. This is has already been investigated and addressed. The right wing idiots got all frothed up with that episode and nothing came of it. On the other hand we have actual evidence that Trumps campaign at least turned a blind eye to a foreign power trying to influence the election. We know because Donald Trump Jr admitted it! In contrast the Fusion GPS firm went to the FBI when they found evidence of wrongdoing. So really you should thank the HRC campaign. This is not a both sides situation.

[Zonkerbl]

Name for me the crime being investigated.

"Collusion", even if there was any evidence of it, isn't a crime. At this point the only crime being investigated is obstruction of justice, and that would be the obstruction of an investigation that wasn't about a crime. Not to mention that Trump IS the Department of Justice in this scenario so his firing of Comey was effectively obstructing himself. Still not illegal.

Come on man. Conspiring with a foreign power to influence an election is a felony and possibly a hanging offense. YOU KNOW THIS TOO.

It happens in every election. Didn't Mexico influence our election with their anti-Trump rhetoric? Heck, the Ukraine did more "colluding" with Hillary Clinton and the DNC than even the worst allegations of Russia with Trump.

Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly questioning his fitness for office. They also disseminated documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested they were investigating the matter, only to back away after the election. And they helped Clinton’s allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers, a Politico investigation found.

If a foreign government walks up to a candidate and says "psst, hey bud, I have some information that might help you win", and you take that information and use it, that is not a crime. A crime would be subsequent quid pro quo where you give that foreign government something tangible in return.

MEXICO can do whatever it wants. TRUMP CANNOT HELP MEXICO DO THIS (in exchange for, say, better treatment under NAFTA) - THAT'S TREASON.

Or would be if we didn't have such a restrictive definition of treason. Anyway working with Mexico so that they know which information would be the most effective to release, and telling them when to release it for maximum effect, in exchange for a promise to reduce or eliminate sanctions if elected, is a felony.

You need to watch more Rachel Maddow. MSNBC sucks (opinionated and biased) but Maddow herself is very fact-oriented, and I find her summary of the accumulating evidence suggesting that the Trump campaign was working with Russia to dig up dirt on Clinton in exchange for sanctions reduction pretty compelling. You're not going to get that on Breitbart. We need to agree on facts, and you're just not going to get the complete picture from one side. I've been forcing myself to read Breitbart myself, yucky as that is.

[Pointgod]

Ok. Educate me.

This memo is supposed to show what?

Trump's people were unmasked?

This was already addressed in the Susan Rice unmasking. Nothing and I repeat nothing came of it. Do you think the Obama administration would be as sloppy to leave clear evidence of wrongdoing laying around?

[stilldropin20]

Do you guys think the Ds should shut down the government over the dreamers? Would this help or hurt at the mid-terms?

The Democratic base want politicians that will stick to their convictions and fight for something. Democrats have been winning elections all over the place not because they're running on compromise. Republicans control all 3 branches of government. It's not Democrats shutting down the government but the Republicans inability to lead and control their party. There is a solution here but the Republicans are too disorganized and chaotic get there.

So, yes - don't vote for the continuing resolution unless they get what they want on DACA?

daca is meaningless without a fully secure border(aka immigration reform). Or else in few years we will have another few hundred thousand undocumented workers. a never ending problems with no solution. This can has been kicked since the late 80's.

You finally have a president that will sign the damn legislation (as he says) take the heat. But you have to solve the problem, not kick the can.

To sign it(solve it). he needs:

1. A fully funded secure border with funds that can not be removed with future administration. The border must be fully secure and the legislation must match that idea.
2. End chain migration (move to merit based).
3. End visa lottery (again, move to merit based).

its simple, and Dems wont budge. Even though, nearly every single Dem at one point or another has either called for or voted for a fully secure southern border including Obama, HRC, and Schumer himself. Everyone knows we need this!!!! Everyone!!

[gtn130]

Nate seems so very deeply worried about THE LEAKERS and ILLEGAL DATA COLLECTION yet cares little for the actual crimes being investigated. Very strange! It's almost as if he's arguing in bad faith or something

Well, its both right? Actually 3 things. It seems like Trump and his election team has some problems, Russia is really good at exploiting us to lauder money and the previous administration/HRC campaign may have stepped outside the lines.

I think it is good to be worried about all three.

This is the Susan Rice unmasking the remix. This is has already been investigated and addressed. The right wing idiots got all frothed up with that episode and nothing came of it. On the other hand we have actual evidence that Trumps campaign at least turned a blind eye to a foreign power trying to influence the election. We know because Donald Trump Jr admitted it! In contrast the Fusion GPS firm went to the FBI when they found evidence of wrongdoing. So really you should thank the HRC campaign. This is not a both sides situation.

I mean, yeah, this.

The unmasking stuff is pure nonsense, but taking the position that we must immediately shut down this witch hunt lends a lot of credibility to Republican derpers who are trying to shut down an actual legitimate investigation.

So let's investigate stuff! Republicans can keep investigating Benghazi and Uranium One and UNMASKING (*gasps*) for Daddy as long as the Mueller investigation is untouched and allowed to operate freely.

[Wizardspride]

Ok. Educate me.

This memo is supposed to show what?

Trump's people were unmasked?

This was already addressed in the Susan Rice unmasking. Nothing and I repeat nothing came of it. Do you think the Obama administration would be as sloppy to leave clear evidence of wrongdoing laying around?

That's exactly where I was going with it.

[Pointgod]

Do you guys think the Ds should shut down the government over the dreamers? Would this help or hurt at the mid-terms?

The Democratic base want politicians that will stick to their convictions and fight for something. Democrats have been winning elections all over the place not because they're running on compromise. Republicans control all 3 branches of government. It's not Democrats shutting down the government but the Republicans inability to lead and control their party. There is a solution here but the Republicans are too disorganized and chaotic get there.

So, yes - don't vote for the continuing resolution unless they get what they want on DACA?

Let's break it down:

There is an immigration bill in the Senate that will pass with Democrats and Republican support. Republicans want to redo this dance in 30 days. There are Republican Senators that will vote against a 30 day extension. Chuck Schumer has proposed a 4 day extension. So Democrats are willing to keep the government running, just not willing to redo this again in 30 days. So there has to be a middle ground that's more than 4 less than 30 which gives time to find a DACA solution which I remind you is already on the table. Trump could show some real leadership but he's too clueless to do anything.

[gtn130]

This memo thing is so hilarious to me.

GOP imploring the #DeepState and #CrookedHillary to allow the GOP Congress and GOP President to authorize the memo.

Meanwhile Fox News is begging House GOP to release the memo when Fox News only knows about it because House GOP told them about it.

And Nate, SD20 and the gang eat this stuff up. What a time to be alive

[Wizardspride]

Well, its both right? Actually 3 things. It seems like Trump and his election team has some problems, Russia is really good at exploiting us to lauder money and the previous administration/HRC campaign may have stepped outside the lines.

I think it is good to be worried about all three.

This is the Susan Rice unmasking the remix. This is has already been investigated and addressed. The right wing idiots got all frothed up with that episode and nothing came of it. On the other hand we have actual evidence that Trumps campaign at least turned a blind eye to a foreign power trying to influence the election. We know because Donald Trump Jr admitted it! In contrast the Fusion GPS firm went to the FBI when they found evidence of wrongdoing. So really you should thank the HRC campaign. This is not a both sides situation.

I mean, yeah, this.

The unmasking stuff is pure nonsense, but taking the position that we must immediately shut down this witch hunt lends a lot of credibility to Republican derpers who are trying to shut down an actual legitimate investigation.

So let's investigate stuff! Republicans can keep investigating Benghazi and Uranium One and UNMASKING (*gasps*) for Daddy as long as the Mueller investigation is untouched and allowed to operate freely.

Sounds like a fair trade off to me.

[stilldropin20]

This is the Susan Rice unmasking the remix. This is has already been investigated and addressed. The right wing idiots got all frothed up with that episode and nothing came of it. On the other hand we have actual evidence that Trumps campaign at least turned a blind eye to a foreign power trying to influence the election. We know because Donald Trump Jr admitted it! In contrast the Fusion GPS firm went to the FBI when they found evidence of wrongdoing. So really you should thank the HRC campaign. This is not a both sides situation.

I mean, yeah, this.

The unmasking stuff is pure nonsense, but taking the position that we must immediately shut down this witch hunt lends a lot of credibility to Republican derpers who are trying to shut down an actual legitimate investigation.

So let's investigate stuff! Republicans can keep investigating Benghazi and Uranium One and UNMASKING (*gasps*) for Daddy as long as the Mueller investigation is untouched and allowed to operate freely.

Sounds like a fair trade off to me.

Exactly. Investigate all of it. Including the basis of whether or not there should even be a mueller investigation into Trump.

I just want the truth. I want it all exposed.

Sent from my SM-N920T using RealGM mobile app

[Pointgod]

I mean this is the thing about Trump. He's revealing the weak points of our Democracy, sometimes innocently and sometimes malignantly. We need to stop shouting insults at each other for a second and reflect on what's going on.

Two things I can't stand are liars and people that insult my intelligence. SD20 and nate aren't trying to have any sort of fair or rational arguments on surveillance. They just repeat right wing talking points and unsubstantiated claims. No amount of trying to facts, reason or civility is going to stop them from arguing based on misinformation.

[stilldropin20]

Nate seems so very deeply worried about THE LEAKERS and ILLEGAL DATA COLLECTION yet cares little for the actual crimes being investigated. Very strange! It's almost as if he's arguing in bad faith or something

Well, its both right? Actually 3 things. It seems like Trump and his election team has some problems, Russia is really good at exploiting us to lauder money and the previous administration/HRC campaign may have stepped outside the lines.

I think it is good to be worried about all three.

This is the Susan Rice unmasking the remix. This is has already been investigated and addressed. The right wing idiots got all frothed up with that episode and nothing came of it. On the other hand we have actual evidence that Trumps campaign at least turned a blind eye to a foreign power trying to influence the election. We know because Donald Trump Jr admitted it! In contrast the Fusion GPS firm went to the FBI when they found evidence of wrongdoing. So really you should thank the HRC campaign. This is not a both sides situation.

This actually has not been investigated at all. It is currently being investigated and it is currently being exposed as in real time. This memo to Congress is the first time that the rest of Congress is saying what the house Intel committee has been looking at for months.

Senators Grassley and Graham have referred multiple people to the FBI for criminal investigation based on their findings.

We will see what the Senate investigation comes up with as well as the mueller investigation.

Sent from my SM-N920T using RealGM mobile app

[stilldropin20]

I will add that house Dems and Senate Dems have been leaking whatever negative press they could find on Trump along the way. And they've got nothing.

Sent from my SM-N920T using RealGM mobile app

[JWizmentality]

What do you want to wager that "The Memo" is more filled-in details on why it was that members of team -Trump, came to the awareness of people working in counterintelligence. This is going to be just screaming louder on deflection. How outrageous of the Obama administration to surveil Trump and his people when they were trying to, or possibly commit, treason with the Russians.

Bingo! And that's the point nate and SD20 don't want to touch. I break their car window to get to the baby in the hot car, but they'll scream their lungs out about me breaking their window.

Cowards.

[Zonkerbl]

I mean this is the thing about Trump. He's revealing the weak points of our Democracy, sometimes innocently and sometimes malignantly. We need to stop shouting insults at each other for a second and reflect on what's going on.

Two things I can't stand are liars and people that insult my intelligence. SD20 and nate aren't trying to have any sort of fair or rational arguments on surveillance. They just repeat right wing talking points and unsubstantiated claims. No amount of trying to facts, reason or civility is going to stop them from arguing based on misinformation.

But how is shouting insults at Nate helping? Nothing makes a troll happier than when they get a reaction, I'm not saying Nate is a troll but he's not deciding for you whether and how to engage and neither is SD20.

I think Nate is a fascinating interlocutor because, outside of a very strong bias that he admits to, he is at least interested in hearing what the logical arguments of the other side are, even if it's next to impossible to get him to change his mind on anything. That's fair - I'm not terribly easy to convince either. I learn a lot from engaging with him.

I don't bother engaging SD20 because he's clearly insane. Why bother? Do you argue with an Alzheimer's patient? If you do that reflects more on you doesn't it?

I didn't engage Hands either. Basketball fans are crazy.

[stilldropin20]

What do you want to wager that "The Memo" is more filled-in details on why it was that members of team -Trump, came to the awareness of people working in counterintelligence. This is going to be just screaming louder on deflection. How outrageous of the Obama administration to surveil Trump and his people when they were trying to, or possibly commit, treason with the Russians.

Bingo! And that's the point nate and SD20 don't want to touch. I break their car window to get to the baby in the hot car, but they'll scream their lungs out about me breaking their window.

Cowards.

and what exactly is the "baby" you saved in this metaphor? let me guess, the american liberals who were "with her"" and trump is the broken window???

try this metaphor on for size. Democracy is the baby. The Obama admin DOJ/FBI is the scorching sun. and Trump is the hammer that shatters the glass.

[TGW]

The fake resistance establishment Democrats just voted to give President Cheetoh more power to tap Americans without warrants.

Oh yea, Trump is bad and a Putin puppet...so let's give him more power to spy on people. Makes a ton of sense.

This is why I'll never vote for an establishment Democrat. They are no better than establishment Republicans.