Kevin Seraphin

[jivelikenice]

Good point on Flip. He didn't HAVE to play McGee. The feeling of entitlement was based on the coaches giving guys like McGee, Dray, and Young pt and treating them as though they were untouchables in the lineup.

[Upper Decker]

The excuse "He didn't start playing basketball until he was in high school" get's tossed around often as a crutch for players who fail to develop quickly. I'm not sure why this is a legit excuse. People said the same thing about McGee, which I found weird as his mom was a professional ball player. Is a player that much more advanced if he started playing when he was 12 rather than 15? I coach youth basketball and we have 2 1-hour long practices a week. I don't think 12 y.o. boys have the capacity to absorb the true complexities of basketball to make a tangible difference when compared to 15 or 16 year olds. Maybe it’s just me, but it sort of seems odd to give someone a pass when they started doing something 7 years ago as compared to 10 years.

[Nivek]

A point that can't be underestimated is one that's referenced in my sig, and one that's referenced in the translated blog stuff someone posted about Seraphin. IF Seraphin has become an NBA-quality big man, it may be testament to the fact that he's apparently working his ass off to get better.

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

I could see what Seraphin brought in his rookie season even with his limited playing time, he was all nerves as a rookie when he entered a game from what I saw and that caused him to look very unnatural at the game. I don't like the odds of Vesely making the same strides as Seraphin in his second year because his offensive skill is too limited. He has the athletic ability to get his own shot, but it just doesn't go in most times when it leaves his hands. It will be something of a miracle if that is remedied. May have to learn to play close to the basket to ever be a contributor on offense vs. a putback dunker. Don't think he will be a bust because he plays with so much energy and finds ways to contribute without the ball, but I think he was put in a tough spot being drafted as high as he was.

[hands11]

Seraphin is starting to serve as a bit of a cautionary tale to this online community and the speed and methods with which we evaluate players, transactions, and (gulp) management.

...
So I can't see Seraphin performing like this and write off Vesely or Singleton, especially not in this bizarre season. And as much as I had my pitchfork out for Ernie earlier this year, I feel pretty sheepish demanding his ouster when he dominated the 2010 draft so thoroughly. That will play itself out.

I'm excited for Kevin's continued development, that is for sure.

I don't think Seraphin is a cautionary tale, I think he's a fluke. An outlier. The guy's improvement has been nothing short of stunning and I'd be hard pressed to find a comparable situation where a guy as bad as Seraphin was as a rookie and the first half of his second year, developed into a useful player so quickly.

Are you trying to wiggle out of a tight spot. I sure hope you were posting about how much KS sucked in some previous posts. Hey CCJ, did you purchases two of those crows or just one. I think DAT might need one

How about this.. Seraphinsanity!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wiz ... _blog.html

[tontoz]

The excuse "He didn't start playing basketball until he was in high school" get's tossed around often as a crutch for players who fail to develop quickly. I'm not sure why this is a legit excuse. People said the same thing about McGee, which I found weird as his mom was a professional ball player. Is a player that much more advanced if he started playing when he was 12 rather than 15? I coach youth basketball and we have 2 1-hour long practices a week. I don't think 12 y.o. boys have the capacity to absorb the true complexities of basketball to make a tangible difference when compared to 15 or 16 year olds. Maybe it’s just me, but it sort of seems odd to give someone a pass when they started doing something 7 years ago as compared to 10 years.

Many NBA players were starters on their HS varsity teams at 15. I have two cousins who were the leading scorers on their high school teams and they were playing competitively year round before they even got to their varsity teams, and they are just Division 2/3 prospects (one is playing college ball, the other will be). All of the better players are routinely playing AAU games all the time.

I think they would have a pretty big advantage over someone who just started playing at 15. Nivek has posted the 10,000 hour rule many times for elite athletes. Someone who started at 15 is at a pretty big disadvantage.

I first started playing around maybe 8 and was watching a lot on TV too. I think that is pretty common for anyone with some talent.

[hands11]

I could see what Seraphin brought in his rookie season even with his limited playing time, he was all nerves as a rookie when he entered a game from what I saw and that caused him to look very unnatural at the game. I don't like the odds of Vesely making the same strides as Seraphin in his second year because his offensive skill is too limited. He has the athletic ability to get his own shot, but it just doesn't go in most times when it leaves his hands. It will be something of a miracle if that is remedied. May have to learn to play close to the basket to ever be a contributor on offense vs. a putback dunker. Don't think he will be a bust because he plays with so much energy and finds ways to contribute without the ball, but I think he was put in a tough spot being drafted as high as he was.

Vesely will develop very different from KS. KS is a post move centric player with both hands who has a mid range. You could always see him practicing those moves, Far from what others are saying, I was mostly shocked he didnt look better sooner because of how smooth he looked with those moves in practice. Most of KSs problems were the fouls he racked up setting picks where he got no love from the refs, and he got there a second to late. Combine that with the guards not waiting long enough for him to get set and he couldnt stay on the floor or get comfortable in his game. The guards still set KS and Ves up for fouls sometimes doing that. Wall was terrible about doing that last year. He always left to early. He is getting better this year. Wall is much better at using picks this year. And he has better pick settings. It takes both.

As for Ves, he isnt going to develop the kind of post moves and both hands like KS. If he does, I dont see it happening soon. All Ves needs right now is a mid range and he is starting to take it more. Randy is all over him about that. He is a pass first player which is more then fine but he needs to keep the D honest and take more shots. That is a lot easier to develop. He has a more length and he releases his shot pretty high. Nothing like McGee used to do where he released his shot at shoulder height.

Ves is going to be a good player. That is easy to see. He already is a good play. He just need a little more strength and a mid range J. I'm not worried at all. Love the kids BBIQ. Great passer and smart position D.

Janchese and Seraphinsanity. Add some Nene and Booker with sharp shooting Mason Mr James and the biggest problem will be, how to rotate them.

I just with Nene and Booker were healthy and the season was starting over today. Whittman would have them in the playoffs. Since there is a 75% change we dont get Davis, Beal would be a great pick. Robinson would just be stacking the deck for a 2013/2014 trade.

[nate33]

Wiz win lotto, take Davis, trade Seraphin for James Harden.

I wouldn't want to give up a big Center like Seraphin for another slim center. Davis' size reminds me of Jeffries and McGee. I rather keep Seraphin and move Davis to the PF position.

If we added Davis, I wouldn't worry too much about position. Both guys can score in the post and shoot from 15 feet. Seraphin is the better post defender, Davis is the better help defender. You put Seraphin on the other team's best post player and set up Davis to be the help defender. Whatever position designation you give them is just semantics.

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

I could see what Seraphin brought in his rookie season even with his limited playing time, he was all nerves as a rookie when he entered a game from what I saw and that caused him to look very unnatural at the game. I don't like the odds of Vesely making the same strides as Seraphin in his second year because his offensive skill is too limited. He has the athletic ability to get his own shot, but it just doesn't go in most times when it leaves his hands. It will be something of a miracle if that is remedied. May have to learn to play close to the basket to ever be a contributor on offense vs. a putback dunker. Don't think he will be a bust because he plays with so much energy and finds ways to contribute without the ball, but I think he was put in a tough spot being drafted as high as he was.

Vesely will develop very different from KS. KS is a post move centric player with both hands who has a mid range. You could always see him practicing those moves, Far from what others are saying, I was mostly shocked he didnt look better sooner because of how smooth he looked with those moves in practice. Most of KSs problems were the fouls he racked up setting picks where he got no love from the refs, and he got there a second to late. Combine that with the guards not waiting long enough for him to get set and he couldnt stay on the floor or get comfortable in his game. The guards still set KS and Ves up for fouls sometimes doing that. Wall was terrible about doing that last year. He always left to early. He is getting better this year. Wall is much better at using picks this year. And he has better pick settings. It takes both.

As for Ves, he isnt going to develop the kind of post moves and both hands like KS. If he does, I dont see it happening soon. All Ves needs right now is a mid range and he is starting to take it more. Randy is all over him about that. He is a pass first player which is more then fine but he needs to keep the D honest and take more shots. That is a lot easier to develop. He has a more length and he releases his shot pretty high. Nothing like McGee used to do where he released his shot at shoulder height.

Ves is going to be a good player. That is easy to see. He already is a good play. He just need a little more strength and a mid range J. I'm not worried at all. Love the kids BBIQ. Great passer and smart position D.

Janchese and Seraphinsanity. Add some Nene and Booker with sharp shooting Mason Mr James and the biggest problem will be, how to rotate them.

I just with Nene and Booker were healthy and the season was starting over today. Whittman would have them in the playoffs. Since there is a 75% change we dont get Davis, Beal would be a great pick. Robinson would just be stacking the deck for a 2013/2014 trade.

I'm just not convinced fixing a player's shot is that easy. It comes naturally or it doesn't. Wall needed to work on his shot, he did, but it's still not completely dependable. It isn't as effortless as I hope it becomes. Vesely is nowhere in the vicinity of Wall when it comes to shooting. I wondered why the Wizards were so gung-ho about using their top pick on a player with no offense to speak of. It was clear just looking at his stats from the Euroleague that he couldn't even make a free throw. He has good footwork and can put the ball on the ground but I can't see him contributing on offense. Not sure his average ever reaches the 15.0 ppg range. To be drafted so high, it should.

I'm with you as far as the season and starting over. However, as far as the draft I'm rolling with Harrison Barnes, he can shoot and he has a good head on his shoulders to go along with a good work ethic from what I've heard and read. The team needs more players like that. I think he's a perfect fit character-wise and position-wise for the type of new team the Wizards are putting together.

[hands11]

Right. Ves isnt in nearly the same situation as Wall. But that isnt really a bad thing.

Wall really really sucked last year and he took plenty of attempts to work on it.

Second, Wall jumps, shoots on the way down and leans. Ves doesn't have to account for all of that. Very different situations.

What Ves need to add is actually going to be a lot easier then Wall. Ves will shot mostly open spot ups set shoots. Wall shoots from all over, off the dribble, etc.

As for Barnes, actually any rookie, I hope this team is finally at the point that a rookie doesn't have to start or be relied on right away. I want them to come in and get a feel for things the first half of the year. Walk before they run. Get a strong foundation. Earn it.

Long term SF is a really important position for a team. Just not sure Barnes is that guy in my view. I would rather do a stop gap now and be patient with finding that piece.

[GUYANNAGRIZZLI]

Kevin Seraphin has the same type of hatching than Al jefferson in Boston a few years ago.
As KS "big al" made a poor rookie season and a second year at 7.8ppg and on his third season with pierce injury he had the luck to develop his game.
ks has actually the luck to improve his game having minutes.
Also big al his 6.10 and 280lbs which very similar to ks and in terms of touch in shooting KS has the potential to shot as a BIG AL and .In terms of scoring i bet that seraphin can if he has 30minutes per game to score 15ppg next year.
Of course big al is almost an all star and the foot work of big al is very impressive and in many aspects ks is far from big al but for me
KS IS A BEAST WHO VALUEs 20 PPG AND 10 REBOUNDS IN 2-3 YEARS

[montestewart]

Kevin Seraphin has the same type of hatching than Al jefferson in Boston a few years ago.
As KS "big al" made a poor rookie season and a second year at 7.8ppg and on his third season with pierce injury he had the luck to develop his game.
ks has actually the luck to improve his game having minutes.
Also big al his 6.10 and 280lbs which very similar to ks and in terms of touch in shooting KS has the potential to shot as a BIG AL and .In terms of scoring i bet that seraphin can if he has 30minutes per game to score 15ppg next year.
Of course big al is almost an all star and the foot work of big al is very impressive and in many aspects ks is far from big al but for me
KS IS A BEAST WHO VALUEs 20 PPG AND 10 REBOUNDS IN 2-3 YEARS

Welcome, KS fan club.

Bynum had a horrible rookie year, numbers as bad or worse than Seraphin's numbers. Not a perfect comparison (Bynum younger and taller rookie) but shows bigs can overcome horrible starts.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Kevin Seraphin is already a much better defender than Al Jefferson. Defense wins games.

[GUYANNAGRIZZLI]

Kevin Seraphin is already a much better defender than Al Jefferson. Defense wins games.

i agree defense win games but if you ad offensive games of a big al KS IS A BEAST

[veji1]

Guyannagrizzli, that really sounds like an enthousiastic fan name !

Jefferson is an appalling defender, worse than a guy like Boozer...Seraphin is already a very solid defender, and as team defense gets better, he, like other players will miss less and less rotations, and gain confidence.

What is very very promising with Seraphin is how his game is simple and sound.
- Defense : He plays solid man to man defense, clogs the lane well, just needs to work on that defensive rebounding.
- Offense : His game isn't predicated on athlecism or explosiveness. It is predicated on good use of his mass and footwork (things that are reliable on the long term, don't go away with age or an injury), and on simple yet solid offensive moves : hook shots on both sides up to 6-8 feet away, decent and improving mid-range shot from the elbow or top of the key, with good form and release. This is not a Stoudemire 2004 or Griffin 2012 offense, based primarily on freakish athlecism. It means that it is more dependable (Not saying he is better thant those guys of course) and it also means that it responds really well to work in training. Add to that very decent foul shooting for a young big (70%+) and it just points to a player whose technical repertoire might be limited but very very sound.

In that sense KS looks like a sure thing. We might very well be looking at the emergence of a phyiscally stronger Kurt Thomas and dare I say potentially better because of the FTs he could get thanks to his bulk and power play if he developps it. That means a perennial 15-8-2 with 54% fg and 70% ft, on a douzain shots a game. This type of player, reliable yet with a fairly low usage are gold plated for a team.

We can't be sure, it might not pan out (hello Ike Diogu), but the soundness of his game so far is really impressive.

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

Right. Ves isnt in nearly the same situation as Wall. But that isnt really a bad thing.

Wall really really sucked last year and he took plenty of attempts to work on it.

Second, Wall jumps, shoots on the way down and leans. Ves doesn't have to account for all of that. Very different situations.

What Ves need to add is actually going to be a lot easier then Wall. Ves will shot mostly open spot ups set shoots. Wall shoots from all over, off the dribble, etc.

As for Barnes, actually any rookie, I hope this team is finally at the point that a rookie doesn't have to start or be relied on right away. I want them to come in and get a feel for things the first half of the year. Walk before they run. Get a strong foundation. Earn it.

Long term SF is a really important position for a team. Just not sure Barnes is that guy in my view. I would rather do a stop gap now and be patient with finding that piece.

I don't think whoever the Wizards take should be or will be inserted into the starting lineup right away. I'm thinking, you let Chris Singleton remain in the starting lineup because he can provide a little bit of scoring. Let the the team establish themselves defensively the way it had been doing when Nene and Booker were both in the lineup, then you begin to sub in your scorers to really get the offense going. I think Harrison Barnes can give the team 10.0-15.0 ppg off the bench as a rookie. The other rookie I want to Wizards to grab is John Jenkins, SG from Vanderbilt.

[hands11]

Well at least we see eye to eye on the role of the rookie they draft. Just another piece to the puzzle. I see that player as something to plug in more in year 2 or 3 then next year. Though I do think adding depth at different positions would pay off more in the short term.

I guess, I see this as a pretty good roster if they were all health and starting the season over right now.

Biggest hole this team has as the roster currently stands is back up PG. They is the player I think will be the biggest boost to this team next year if they find the right player. Longer term, its a stud SF and SG deepth. So since I say you draft this year for players you will use next year and beyond, Beal still looks like a good fit. After that, Robinson would be a nice chose to plan for the future and stake assets.

As is, Crawford, Mason and Martin gives enough at SG and Martin has added shooting range to the SF slot. Its not a longer term answer for SG but its enough a year while they stack the deck. I say it would be really smart for them to bring back Martin. As a SF, he may not be the stud SF they ultimately need but he add the offense and range that Singleton lacks. C Singleton was a 3 and D type. Martin is more fluid with rebounding and range. They actually compliment each other well. And Martin still could develop into an above average SF.

Barnes would be useful but I think they can do better then adding him. But as was said, whoever they add will be a role player next year. Wall started because he was the #1 on a weak team. C Singleton started because they really had nothing else at SF. If they even had a average SF this year, he would be a back up.

The team is getting better and deeper. Now they can be more patient with rookies and bring them into a more professional environment where they earn time.

[nate33]

Guyannagrizzli, that really sounds like an enthousiastic fan name !

Jefferson is an appalling defender, worse than a guy like Boozer...Seraphin is already a very solid defender, and as team defense gets better, he, like other players will miss less and less rotations, and gain confidence.

What is very very promising with Seraphin is how his game is simple and sound.
- Defense : He plays solid man to man defense, clogs the lane well, just needs to work on that defensive rebounding.
- Offense : His game isn't predicated on athlecism or explosiveness. It is predicated on good use of his mass and footwork (things that are reliable on the long term, don't go away with age or an injury), and on simple yet solid offensive moves : hook shots on both sides up to 6-8 feet away, decent and improving mid-range shot from the elbow or top of the key, with good form and release. This is not a Stoudemire 2004 or Griffin 2012 offense, based primarily on freakish athlecism. It means that it is more dependable (Not saying he is better thant those guys of course) and it also means that it responds really well to work in training. Add to that very decent foul shooting for a young big (70%+) and it just points to a player whose technical repertoire might be limited but very very sound.

In that sense KS looks like a sure thing. We might very well be looking at the emergence of a phyiscally stronger Kurt Thomas and dare I say potentially better because of the FTs he could get thanks to his bulk and power play if he developps it. That means a perennial 15-8-2 with 54% fg and 70% ft, on a douzain shots a game. This type of player, reliable yet with a fairly low usage are gold plated for a team.

We can't be sure, it might not pan out (hello Ike Diogu), but the soundness of his game so far is really impressive.

Good points on Seraphin's production not being built on athleticism but rather on strength, fundamentals and footwork. He could have a long, solid, consistent career.

I disagree with the Kurt Thomas comparison though. Kurt Thomas was a glorified Darius Songaila: an excellent pick and pop shooter, only with rebounding and defense too. Kurt Thomas was never a post up player and never really a power player. Other teams didn't think to themselves: "Oh crap, I gotta play Kurt Thomas tonight".

I think Seraphin's game is more like Nene's, or maybe Marc Gasol's. He physically beats up the opposition and wears them down. People aren't going to want to play against Seraphin.

[veji1]

I can see your point, it was not a perfect comparison. Probably in the last 10 years or so the best comparison might be to some sort of so far lesser Elton Brand ? ie low post player with mass and fairly low gravity center ? it is hard to find a recent comparison. He is much more physical than Nene and does not have half the technique and shooting distance that Marc Gasol has.

[veji1]

actually being a lesser Elton Brand could be a great objective. Just checking his stats for some of his years, but for example during his first 3 years as a Clipper (2001-2004) for quite a low usage (12 then 14 and 14 FGA on 51%) he shot on average 6.5fts per game on 73% for an average 18.5 and 11rbs. Of course I am in no way saying that Seraphin will average this. For once he still has a very significant weakness rebounding, particularly defensively. But offensively Brand could offer some sort of a blue print of what he should try to do as an undersized but massive forward/center with could speed and reach.

I'd have to find a scoring chart for Brand in those years to ensure relevancy of the comparison though.