Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4

[Induveca]

Here is some real info on Vesely (spelled Veseli in Serbian). Found this interesting, he's not Czech but half Czech/Serb......always saw it reported he was Czech. Explains the near lack of info on Czech sites.

Good Serb Article on him......said he is most like Kirilenko at this stage, and is a project with "high potential".

http://www.b92.net/sport/kosarka/nba.ph ... _id=519733

He also states his goal is to be the next "Nowitzki"...

http://sport.blic.rs/Kosarka/Domaca-kos ... vi-Novicki

Another quick blurb, apparently Partizan wants 5 million Euro buyout. And if there is a lockout, there's a strong possibility of him signing with Barcelona. I saw this in 3-4 places but this was the most coherent sadly. Translating Serbian to English apparently is a tough task for machine translation.

http://sport.blic.rs/Kosarka/Domaca-kos ... o-za-draft

[arterimal]

I'm warming up to the Vesely as the pick. I don't expect immediate results and I know Wall has expressed his desire to make the playoffs next year, hope he can hang in there and we keep him or this whole rebuild might blow up in our face.

[closg00]

Vesely's dunk highlights and nearly "dominant" post presence remind me a LOT of Gallinari's highlights prior to his draft.

NONE of his post skills/dunking in the lane ability have translated to the NBA. These guys are fast/tall/athletic for the game here in the EU. I've watched a ton of games over the past few years on Sky Sports.

The game is played almost in slow motion compared to the NBA. I simply don't see it translating. Rubio is going to be a major bust..............the kid was demoted to backup this year. Navarro still lights up the entire EU................

Vesely reminds me of a lot of 6'8' - 7' eastern euros most teams have on their squad over here. That being said he actually starts, which is a rarity.......but he is 230 pounds soaking wet, can't shoot very well, and is considered "powerful" on Czech and Serb message boards. He reminds me of McGee is many ways quite frankly. That's not a good thing, we don't need another project.

Check out google.cz, do a search for him and choose czech sites only. The consensus on him from his own countrymen is he's not much more than an "energy" player without much real skill, a project who can't hit a free throw to save his life.

Well-said, my thoughts exactly, these dunkfest highlights against Euro scrubs should be red-flags actually...especially since his shooting is so shaky, his FT% is worse than Shaqs. We would be better-off pulling-up one of the 7-14 guys like Singleton and using our 18th pick on a wing prospect.

[popper]

Can Nick Young sign an extension with the Wizards before the CBA expires on June 30? If so, wouldn't his agent be working with the Wizards to make that happen in anticipation of the new and less lucrative CBA?

[Hoopalotta]

Can Nick Young sign an extension with the Wizards before the CBA expires on June 30? If so, wouldn't his agent be working with the Wizards to make that happen in anticipation of the new and less lucrative CBA?

No, he can't. The deadline was midnight of October 31st, 2010 for all of the guys in his draft class. Anyone who didn't hit an extension by then is locked into restricted free agency (unless restricted free agency is taken out of the new CBA, which seems highly unlikely).

[hands11]

I'll go on record as saying that to be unwilling to trade McGee for Williams straight up is stupid. This offseason, there are two free agent centers available that are better than McGee. Chandler was also available last offseason, and upside bedamned, Kendrick Perkins is also a better player than McGee and was just traded for a reasonable sum. To say that players of McGee's caliber don't come available in free agency just isn't consistent with recent league history.

Boom:

1) Chandler is 28. Perkins is 26. Both have a history of injuries, especially Perkins who has really struggled to stay healthy when playing starter's minutes.

2) Neither of them are likely to be playing at their peak when Wall and the rest of our young players reach theirs.

3) Under the current CBA, it is *very* difficult to sign a starting caliber center as a FA.

4) The new CBA will probably make it even harder to sign FA's away from their current team.

5) You can't count on acquiring a specific player in free agency (especially when you don't know the new CBA rules).

6) When is the last time the Wizards acquired a good player via free agency that other teams wanted? I think that would be 8 summers ago with Gilbert Arenas and he wasn't a star yet.

Until the organization shows it can attract and sign desirable free agents -- by actually doing so -- relying on free agency ahead of time is a bad option.

It is a waste of time to look backward. This is a different franchise and there will be a new CBA.

They have Wall.

Looking forward is all that matters. They will be able to get FAs. They have a great owner, a star talent and DC is a great basketball town/market.

[hands11]

I used to be concerned about getting Jan, but now I'm kindof intrigued. He'd be a great Fast Break running mate for Wall. And if he works hard, I'm guessing he develops a stable shot.

I'm coming around on Vesely too. He's a legit athletic freak, even if he has no skills. I could see him having a Marion like impact once he fills out a bit - maybe even Kirilenko. Length + motor + freak athleticism usually translates into a pretty decent player. I have the same doubts as everyone else about his basketball skills; it's certainly a gamble. But if we're going to gamble, we may as well gamble on someone with significant upside.

I'd still much prefer Kanter and I'd rather trade our #18 to move up to #3. But if Vesely is there at #6 and Ernie grabs him, I'll be willing to wait a bit before declaring it a disastrous pick.

AK is who I was thinking of except I didnt want to say it because he was so good on D.

[hands11]

I am amused that a week or so ago I started defending Vesely simply for sport; I was just annoyed that the board groupthink had labeled him a sure bust when no one has ever seen him play in person, live, or watched more than a few of his games. I was thoroughly skewered for the Kirilenko comparison, and now DX has it his "best case" (may have had it before and I just didn't notice) and people are warming to him. Give it another day or two and I'll be completely against the idea of drafting him!

V was an early target for me mouths ago so I feel ya. I then got less interested as other player caught my eye. I think he will be interesting. I just don't know if would take him over other combinations of players.

[hands11]

As to the Williams-McGee debate, I actually think the Javale is being sold shot offensively and has the capacity to be the third option who gives you about 12-14 or more points right down the the gut of the opposing defense (if we count free throws).

The guy has zero discipline and limited situational awareness, but IMO, his offensive endevours were whittled downward by our overall lack of playmaking acumen in the starting lineup through most of the year combined with an overabundance of shot takers. Not to make excuses because he generally responded poorly, but I believe a lot of his discipline problems were related to him not thinking he was going to get the ball based on that overall preponderance of gunners. We were fundamentally ill-disciplined overall with that forming a feedback loop as guys are competing with one another to get theirs.

But he's definitely the guy to finish what others create and I thought he showed it towards the end of the year through chemistry with Crawford and then Wall. It wasn't a great offense by any means overall and Crawford might not be the guy longterm, but you bring in some overall playmaking from the backcourt and I think McGee is the better interior scorer to Williams and really, it's not even close.

He strikes me as the classic "you look for him early in the game and he scores. The other team adjusts because they can't handle giving up dunks like that and they take him out of his game a bit, but in doing so, now everyone else has more room to operate". That's the guy who can increase the efficiency of everyone else out on the court, which is one of the main things you're hoping for from your first and second options.

Now, I don't think he's a second option scorer like Williams and I don't think he'll ever have the court awareness to where you're running much beyond a lob for him late in close games, but what I laid out has worth if it comes to fruition. Williams is likely to be that second option scorer and can work a whole lot more shot creating mojo out on the wing, but I think Javale has just as much capacity to make the other team adjust in ways which accrue team-wide advantage.

Even with all the negatives, it was 4.5 shots at the rim on excellent efficiency with another 1.9 shots out within the nine foot range with less scintillating effects, so it's not like there isn't a foundation here (and I definitely thought the 9-foot range shots looked better late in the season too). Offensively, what he really needs to do is, first, just settle down overall, which, as noted, I believe is related to having faith that the team will get him the ball in scoring situations. And then, he really needs to get his free throw shooting up. That was a huge impediment to his scoring efficiency last year - if he can hit those at 70%, he can swing a lot of those turnovers and wild shots into FT attempts (or even makes) as he'll be more confident to consistently take the direct approach to the hoop when he has the ball deep.

And that's not even getting into the idea of him being, you know, a center who brings other things.

I agree with this. JaVale actually has WAY more moves than other C at his age had, including Marcus Camby and Tyson Chandler. He has hooks, fingerolls, counter moves, a dropstep, and a pretty soft touch. He also has decent face-up skills. As he gets stronger, he should even be better in the post. And don't forget that he's a huge target for alley-oops and gets many putbacks. I think he will AT LEAST be a 15-ppg scorer in his prime. I even think that he can develop a semi-reliable jumpshot if he works on it with the coaches enough.

I don't think he'll ever be the scorer that Williams is, but lets not forget the other things JaVale provides that Williams doesn't, like size, and shot-blocking.

JaVale will get better at D. He has all the tools, but he's still young. I have no doubt in my mind that if JaVale puts it all together, that he'll be an All-Star C.

I still have no upside limit for McGee. He can be as good as he wants if he does the work and gets his mind right. You can't say that about many players. I still don't even limit him to just center either.

In time, if if if, he could be a truly dominate player. I just don't see how you could let someone with that kind of potential walk so soon in his career when he was a project to start with. He has shown some progress. He has made his body stronger and should continue to do so. You have to give a player like that 4-5 year before you can really project a ceiling. McGee is still a puppy.

As of yet, he has no ceiling.

[hands11]

The Bulls had allot of trouble scoring against the Heat in the playoffs... I don't think Wall will become the scorer Rose is, so we need that consistent 2nd option next to him... Williams may or may not become that player, but I think we can all agree that McGee will not become that player anytime soon...

I don't see anyone arguing that point.

McGee's extension next year makes the decision to trade him now much easier IMO... I rather lose him for the 2nd pick this year than to lose him for nothing next year... or pay him allot of money and regret it afterwards...

I've got faith in the combo of the new CBA and new ownership. I don't think keeping Vale will be as expensive as people think.

I simply don't see McGee becoming any better than he is now, especially since he already think he has a post-game and plays good D because he blocks shots...

This is simply preposterous. He's already demonstrated clear improvement, even if he's still far from a perfect player. Why on earth would he not continue to improve given his age and ability?

Because he thinks he's better than he actually is, has publicly stated that he doesn't want to learn from the greats b/c he wants to go his own way, his knuckleheadedness, his immaturity, consistently making bad decisions on both O & D... I don't see why it's preposterous to come to that conclusion when taking all these things in consideration...

I just don't see McGee becoming anything more than a backup when it's all said and done... His stats IMO, are fools gold; another April Fools Dray waiting to happen... I don't see the will to improve in him, he looks content with the skills he has now...

I hope he proves me wrong though; I will man up and say I was wrong big-time, b/c I would love nothing less for him than to succeed...

If we are really lucky, he stays a knuckhead one more year so we can sign him cheaper. We add Nikola Vucevic and then we let them both grow. McGee will get it eventually. I believe that.

[closg00]

Singleton and Klay thompson invited to the Green Room, I'm holding out for a pleasant surprise on draft night.

[Mr. Grundle]

If I'm Cleveland I take Derrick Williams #1 then take whichever PG is available at #4, Irving or Knight. Minnesota isn't taking a PG with Rubio coming over. Utah might actually like Knight more and CLE could end up with Williams and Irving.

What matters for us is who does Minnesota take if Cleveland takes Williams? Do they see Kanter as a C or redundant to Love? How could they be confident in a Love/Kanter frontcourt? Its just so unathletic, slow, and white. Not to mention horrible defensively. I see why they want McGee.

I think Kanter falls to us.

[Jay81]

i would consider a trade McGee and our 18th and 34th for their 2nd and 20th

[pancakes3]

i agree that cleveland's best bet is to lock up DWill with the #1 knowing they'll have knight to fall back on with the 4. the question is who does minny take at 2 if not kanter? no pg's rule out irving and knight. it's basically kanter, valenciunas, or kemba walker and truthfully kanter is the best bet out of all of them. kemba's a dark horse because they need scoring more than they need post help but...

i agree. there's a sizable chance that kanter drops to us.

[tsvqt]

If I'm Cleveland I take Derrick Williams #1 then take whichever PG is available at #4, Irving or Knight. Minnesota isn't taking a PG with Rubio coming over. Utah might actually like Knight more and CLE could end up with Williams and Irving.

What matters for us is who does Minnesota take if Cleveland takes Williams? Do they see Kanter as a C or redundant to Love? How could they be confident in a Love/Kanter frontcourt? Its just so unathletic, slow, and white. Not to mention horrible defensively. I see why they want McGee.

I think Kanter falls to us.

I guarantee you a team is sitting back, HOPING that scenario plays out where Cleveland goes DWill #1. They will throw their deal @Minny and move into the #2 slot to grab Irving. Then Utah takes Knight @ #3, and.....well, if I was Cleveland, to save face, I'd take Kanter with #4 and end up with DWill and Kanter. Let Baron Davis run the show for one more year, and grab your PG of the future in a better draft next year. All the while, you start building your team with two studs in DWill and Kanter!

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Well I'm hoping Kanter falls to 6.

If not, I wouldn't be mad with a Singleton and Vucevic draft.

[sfam]

If I'm Cleveland I take Derrick Williams #1 then take whichever PG is available at #4, Irving or Knight. Minnesota isn't taking a PG with Rubio coming over. Utah might actually like Knight more and CLE could end up with Williams and Irving.

What matters for us is who does Minnesota take if Cleveland takes Williams? Do they see Kanter as a C or redundant to Love? How could they be confident in a Love/Kanter frontcourt? Its just so unathletic, slow, and white. Not to mention horrible defensively. I see why they want McGee.

I think Kanter falls to us.

I guarantee you a team is sitting back, HOPING that scenario plays out where Cleveland goes DWill #1. They will throw their deal @Minny and move into the #2 slot to grab Irving. Then Utah takes Knight @ #3, and.....well, if I was Cleveland, to save face, I'd take Kanter with #4 and end up with DWill and Kanter. Let Baron Davis run the show for one more year, and grab your PG of the future in a better draft next year. All the while, you start building your team with two studs in DWill and Kanter!

Cleveland doesn't leave this draft without a PG. Not gonna happen. I agree that taking DWill with the first pick makes loads of sense, but not if you think Irving is lots better than the rest.

Honestly, I'd be shocked if Irving isn't first - almost as shocked as I'd be if we get Kanter. I just don't see Kanter passing by Toronto. I think by far the most likely scenario is both Kanter and JV gone prior to us picking, with us ending up with Vesely.

EDIT: and if Vesely is as good at D as they say and can finish AND post-up, this is not a bad thing to have in a SF.

[Jay81]

im starting to jump back on the Bismark bandwagon..at least he gives us something that we dont have and that we need. To get a chance to have an elite shotblocker,rebounder and defender is something that we have to consider. Think of a more athletic Ekama Okafor who went #2 in the draft just several years ago

[Hoopalotta]

im starting to jump back on the Bismark bandwagon..at least he gives us something that we dont have and that we need. To get a chance to have an elite shotblocker,rebounder and defender is something that we have to consider. Think of a more athletic Ekama Okafor who went #2 in the draft just several years ago

He was not invited to the Greenroom which means that the League Office does not expect him to be a lottery pick. You've got to figure they have respectable intel there.

For me, I'd love to move up from 18 to pluck him.

Phoenix might get cheap and not mind moving down 5 picks in order to get the 34th which they can sell for $2 million or so. If we threw in $1 million, they could net $3 and they have a long history of selling picks outright, so this is good value for them (they also just busted the 14th pick two years ago on Earl Clark).

Utah is rumored to have their pick available and if Houston can't move up, Ford was saying they might move back, which I assume would be directed towards eventually selling the picks as their roster is jammed full of guys.

It's rumored that the Knicks like him a lot @ 17 and are also considering moving up to get him.

I have to admit the guy is scary at 6, but still quite intriguing as a prospect. Personally, I'd throw in $2 million or more on top of that 18th/34th deal to Phoenix and get it done. If they netted $4-5 million to move down five spots, I don't think they could resist.

However, I doubt a real general manager would push that as asking the owner to kick in substantial cash and then having a guy bust is going to contribute towards your getting fired in a very tangible sense. It's one thing to bust a pick, but it's another to pay extra for the privilege of doing so.

[jangles86]

To me Kawhi Leonard looks a beast and would be agreat pick for us at 6.