Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VI

[stevemcqueen1]

I think Porter, Bennett, Len, and Zeller all have a chance to be a much better player than Ersan. I wouldn't make this deal.

Draft picks are overrated year after year leading up to the draft. It is as predictable as the sunrise.

I think the board overrates Ersan Ilyasova.

[stevemcqueen1]

I would trade any/all assets we presently have (outside of Beal and Wall) for Sanders and Illyasova. The way you win in this league is you NEED a rim protector, rebounders, and shooters. Illyasova gives 2 of those 3 things and so does Sanders.

Sanders
Ilyasova
Webster
Beal
Wall

Is a CHAMPIONSHIP contending team in a couple years.

The Bucks have Ilyasova and Sanders and they still aren't any good.

[20MexicanosIn1Van]

Sanders, Beal, and Wall will all be improving in the next couple years. With chemistry, experience, and progression in their games I think that team could be quite good.

Edit: just noticed Sanders is 24 years old. For some reason I thought he was like 22. I still stand by my comment though.

[stevemcqueen1]

Adams moves great for his size. 250 and 7 foot with legitimate strength and a ton of upside. I like him over Len because he seems more passionate about the game and has far less health concerns.

That's interesting because I think the attributes you listed more or less apply to Len as well.

Except he has actual offensive ability.

I am somewhat concerned over his fracture though.

It does apply to Len and Len is better offensively but Adams is showing more than what Len did as a freshman. Len's "red flags" for me would be that he's a 2nd year player and could/should have been wrecking shop but outside of the opener he's played pretty passively and didn't have a very statistically dominant season.

Len missed a ton of his freshman year with eligibility problems and then he had an adjustment period learning the language that Adams didn't have to deal with.

Len is far ahead of Adams on both ends of the court. Adams is about as raw as it gets. He's got a good body and that's about it right now. Very little offensive skill, very little feel on that end. He shouldn't have come out this year, he only did so for the money. I don't think you can pick a player with as little production and development as Adams in the lottery. 7 points a game and 6 rebounds?

[GhostsOfGil]

Just my 2 cents but I think this board is seriously overrating the impact the 3rd pick will have while underrating Ersan. Also, there is no way MIL parts with Sanders.

I'm just gonna come out and say it. I think the 3rd pick is worth giving up to get Sova. The 15th pick makes this a no brainer. Do we really think that Porter will be a 17-8 guy that shoots 3s in the mid 40s? Is Bennett's game going to translate to the NBA at all? This isnt MIN revisited. Ersan is a legit player on a good contract that will thrive in an up tempo system with Wall.

[Dat2U]

I really like Porter. I think he may be the best SF prospect to come out since Durant. He's going to add value immediately because he plays with a high IQ. He seems like such a neat fit alongside Wall & Beal. If he's gone I'm more willing to deal but I would want more than just Ilyasova for the 3rd. I hope it's not just Dunleavy with us sending out Ariza. That would be just regrettable.

I'd definitely do Sanders & Ilyasova for a combination of anything on our roster outside of Wall & Beal.

I'd consider Ilyasova & Henson but only if I didn't have to send Ariza.

I'd consider Ilyasova and an unprotected '14 pick for Ernie's Kids

But I would only do the last two if Porter was off the board.

[GhostsOfGil]

I'd consider Ilyasova & Henson but only if I didn't have to send Ariza.

I'd consider Ilyasova and an unprotected '14 pick for Ernie's Kids

But I would only do the last two if Porter was off the board.

So your saying you wouldnt trade Sova and henson for Ariza and Porter? I'm sorry I just dont see the logic in this at all.

[The Consiglieri]

I don't know if we can we afford to wait on Len for 3 years though? 3 years is a long time.

This is an important year for The Wizards. They have to show improvement this year and I think Porter will improve the teams prospects both long and short term.

Quite the opposite -- we have Nene and if we need another big for a few years we can always just resign Okafor. We're precisely in the perfect situation to draft a big and let him develop.

Agreed. Additionally I've never been a supporter of "we can wait for..." arguments either. You take the best player on the board, you have the best chance of having the best team over time. This isn't 1 season snap shots. E.G. might be terrified of being fired, but we should always be interested #1 in the building of a great team w/long term staying power. If Noel I that guy and you can take him, you do so. Historically speaking, doing the opposite out of impatient nearly always fails to pay off, giving an opposing side the piece they wanted. We may have been impatient for a PG in '96, but did that justify selling Rasheed Wallace for an old PG with a terrible mental make up issue? We might have been impatient for Webber and Howard to put it together and not get into trouble or perceived trouble over parties and want not but did that justify the Richmond trade? The Steelers passing on Marino who the owner wanted, for a defensive building block, because Bradshaw had some years left (1). Nope. If Noel is the man, take him, and be happy about the wonderful career you're buying, and the Nene/Ok option does provide plenty of cover for his development, particularly if you can get Ok to sign off on a 2-3 year deal.

[The Consiglieri]

Cavs have held their cards very close to the vest the the last two years. Their fans had no idea that they were interested in Waiters and TT.

+1, and I also think they are one of the heavy metrics based F.O.'s too.

[stevemcqueen1]

I'd consider Ilyasova & Henson but only if I didn't have to send Ariza.

I'd consider Ilyasova and an unprotected '14 pick for Ernie's Kids

But I would only do the last two if Porter was off the board.

So your saying you wouldnt trade Sova and henson for Ariza and Porter? I'm sorry I just dont see the logic in this at all.

I absolutely would not trade Porter and Ariza for Ilyasova and Henson. Henson and Ilyasova are reserves. And Henson was not a big time prospect. Porter is going to be a starter and a mainstay, a far better player than anyone else in this deal, including Sanders. And Ariza is a more useful reserve than Henson right now and he's an expiring. Ilyasova averages 27 MPG and he's 26, going into his 6th season. This is who he is. He's not worth the #3 pick in any draft in any way shape or form. That would be a horrible trade.

The Bucks aren't any good and don't have any big time players. That's why they're stuck in NBA purgatory. That's why they would try and trade coins for paper and maybe get a foundation piece. We don't need to be taking their mediocrity crown over from them.

[GhostsOfGil]

I absolutely would not trade Porter and Ariza for Ilyasova and Henson. Henson and Ilyasova are reserves. And Henson was not a big time prospect.

Agree to disagree then. Henson is only a reserve because he was young and inexperienced but when given minutes he produced at a very high level. His per 36 numbers were fantastic as well. Illysova just turned 26 and is still relatively young. He is what he is, which is a productive dead eye shooter that can rebound and space the floor.

Porter is going to be a starter and a mainstay, a far better player than anyone else in this deal, including Sanders. And Ariza is a more useful reserve than Henson right now and he's an expiring. Ilyasova averages 27 MPG and he's 26, going into his 6th season. This is who he is. He's not worth the #3 pick in any draft in any way shape or form. That would be a horrible trade.

I don't like arguments that start with factual claims about unknowns. You can base your argument around his potential but there is no way of knowing that Porter will be better than Sander or Ersan. In fact, I find it unlikely.

The Bucks aren't any good and don't have any big time players. That's why they're stuck in NBA purgatory. That's why they would try and trade coins for paper and maybe get a foundation piece. We don't need to be taking their mediocrity crown over from them.

I disagree again. I see Ersan and Henson as much better foundation pieces than Porter and Ariza. They are stuck in NBA purgatory because NO FAs want to go there. There is no player in this draft that screams franchise player but adding Sova and Henson would give us a solid 4 man core to build around. Either way this is a pipe dream because there is no way Henson would be included in a trade for Porter.

[Dat2U]

I'd consider Ilyasova & Henson but only if I didn't have to send Ariza.

I'd consider Ilyasova and an unprotected '14 pick for Ernie's Kids

But I would only do the last two if Porter was off the board.

So your saying you wouldnt trade Sova and henson for Ariza and Porter? I'm sorry I just dont see the logic in this at all.

Absolutely, I wouldn't I'm not even sure I'd do Ilyasova & Henson for Ernie's Kids but at least I'd consider it. Especially if Porter is off the board.

[GhostsOfGil]

I'd consider Ilyasova & Henson but only if I didn't have to send Ariza.

I'd consider Ilyasova and an unprotected '14 pick for Ernie's Kids

But I would only do the last two if Porter was off the board.

So your saying you wouldnt trade Sova and henson for Ariza and Porter? I'm sorry I just dont see the logic in this at all.

Absolutely, I wouldn't I'm not even sure I'd do Ilyasova & Henson for Ernie's Kids but at least I'd consider it. Especially if Porter is off the board.

Dat, please explain to me why you think Sova and Henson are worth more than Vesley Seraphin Booker and Singleton. I feel like I'm being trolled. Obviously we need to be cautious about giving up future assets but we need to look at this without the rose colored glasses.

Am I the only person that thinks Henson and Sova for Ariza and 3 is highway robbery?

[The Consiglieri]

Cavs have held their cards very close to the vest the the last two years. Their fans had no idea that they were interested in Waiters and TT.

This is a fabulous point and an important reminder to take any report of a team's intent or what they're "considering" with a grain of salt.

A year ago at this time, Thomas Robinson was widely considered the odds-on favorite to go #2 to Charlotte.

Then, just half an hour before the start of last year's draft, Ford posted an updated mock, version 10.2, in which he reported the following about Charlotte's direction with the #2 pick:

Analysis: Sources say the Bobcats will trade this pick to Cleveland. The Cavs need both a starting 2 and a starting 3. Beal gives the Cavs a lethal backcourt with Kyrie Irving. He's a big-time shooter and can really stroke the basketball.

No trade happened. Cats were reportedly locked in on MKG all along. As Leonsis likes to say, "no one knows nothing." An overwhelming majority of the reports that reach people like us are smoke.

Ford has said repeatedly in his chats, that he's had some sources that are consistently reliable, and found some to definitively be providing misinformation for their own interests, so he knows himself that some of his contacts are reliable and some are not, and for not unsurprising reasons.

[truwizfan4evr]

The Wizards have reportedly "explored" the possibility of trading their No. 3 pick to the Bucks for Ersan Ilyasova.
The rumor was mentioned by Bucks writer Gery Woelfel during a radio interview this week, and was then "confirmed" and passed along by Sam Amico. Ilyasova makes some sense for Washington, especially given John Wall's recent comment that the Wizards need a power forward who can "pick and pop," but we're firmly in the embryonic-rumor stage. Amico suggests that if such a deal did materialize, other players and picks would be involve.

[nate33]

I'd consider Ilyasova & Henson but only if I didn't have to send Ariza.

I'd consider Ilyasova and an unprotected '14 pick for Ernie's Kids

But I would only do the last two if Porter was off the board.

So your saying you wouldnt trade Sova and henson for Ariza and Porter? I'm sorry I just dont see the logic in this at all.

Absolutely, I wouldn't I'm not even sure I'd do Ilyasova & Henson for Ernie's Kids but at least I'd consider it. Especially if Porter is off the board.

Not sure if serious. Are you saying you wouldn't trade Ernie's Kids straight up for Ilyasova and Henson? That makes no sense.

Maybe you are saying you wouldn't trade the #3 plus Ernie's kids as filler for Ilyasova and Henson. I disagree, but I at least cede that your position is defensible.

It doesn't really matter. I'm certain Henson isn't included.

[truwizfan4evr]

The Wizards have reportedly "explored" the possibility of trading their No. 3 pick to the Bucks for Ersan Ilyasova.
The rumor was mentioned by Bucks writer Gery Woelfel during a radio interview this week, and was then "confirmed" and passed along by Sam Amico. Ilyasova makes some sense for Washington, especially given John Wall's recent comment that the Wizards need a power forward who can "pick and pop," but we're firmly in the embryonic-rumor stage. Amico suggests that if such a deal did materialize, other players and picks would be involve.

I would do it if bucks add there pick to it.

[The Consiglieri]

The advanced defensive stats from VANTAGE on Porter that came out awhile back pushed me over to his camp fairly firmly, so I'm not encouraged to see Ford and his legit sources giving us wiretap wedgies here:

While Noel has been a fixture at the top of Ford’s “Big Board,” the draft analyst said UK’s former center is by no means a sure thing to be chosen No. 1.

Georgetown’s Otto Porter and Maryland’s Alex Len are two other players the Cavs are contemplating with their pick, according to Ford.

“The Cavs, like most teams, have a process they go through,” Ford told the Herald-Leader. “At this stage, they are bringing players in for interviews, going over the medicals and if healthy, having players work out. Where the call is close between prospects, this can be the final determining factor.

“I think they like Noel, but I don’t get the sense from them at all that this is a done deal. If someone else wows them, or if there are more concerns about Noel’s recovery, they could go in a different direction.”

Ford put the odds of Noel going with the top pick at “60 to 65 percent.”

http://ukrecruiting.bloginky.com/2013/0 ... no-1-pick/

Len is being thrown around, but I'd bet my Sunday undergarments that it'd be Porter. He'd cover for a lot of Irving's deficiencies as a playmaker while stitching the frayed seams up nicely in general.

At that point, despite the "Magic need a guard" rumblings, I don't see how they let Noal drop as he's perfect next to and covering for Big Voose (and with Tobias Harris if they plan to use him as a 4, for that matter). Of course if they do let Nerlens get to three, we have reason for excitement, but......

Porter and Noel off the board 1-2 is a....... NIGHTMARE SCENARIO!!!*

At that point, I'm all about the trade backs. I like Office Dipo, but....it's a tough fit and he might not even be under consideration.

The only good news other than a wonderful and unforeseen trade whisking us out of that gunked up gulley would be that if Cleveland wanted Porter that much, we might be poised to trade up for Noel with just a marginal outlay of confetti and corn dogs.

*That is, it's a nightmare if you're not optimistic that a guy with about four or five massive question marks who looked gassed as a hot and cold one-way player logging 27 MPG over 35 games is poised to become a high usage, high minute two-way player over 82.

Just to be clear, I'm all in favor of that nightmare scenario - that would mean we likely choose Bennett!

Not that I really want our choices taken away though - ideally I'd like all three to be available for the Wizards to choose who they think is best, but I hardly consider that a nightmare scenario. This draft is just not about having a Lebron-like talent at the top, and then chopped liver below. Most of these top choices are pretty close to one another in terms of talent. From that standpoint, its now all about who fits better.

Neither do I. I don't see how anything can be a nightmare scenario when you're landing a guy the F.O. and many posters love, and is considered by many, possible the best player in this draft long term. Additionally, we don't really have a place to argue nightmare scenarios when we jumped to 3. The nightmare scenario was moving down to 9, or staying at 8, and having:
Noel
Porter
Bennett
Len
Zeller (for his fans)
CJ McCollum
Oladipo
Burke (if we slipped to 9)
all off the board.

Now that's a nightmare. Ending up with Bennett isn't a nightmare at all. At worst, he'll be a good scorer at the next level, maybe a very good one. That's not a terrible floor coming out of this.

[Dark Faze]

Thinking on it now I don't even do Ilyasova and Henson for #3. I like Porter too much. I'll do it for Sova and Sanders.

[truwizfan4evr]

What if the bucks added the 15 pick in the deal?