Discuss Ernie Grunfeld's GM skills here (Part 2)

[closg00]

The problem I have with Ernie is this: dude wants to end his offseason early so he can spend the rest of the time on vacation.

Case in point: he signed Jodie Meeks. He's probably a tier 5 free agent, i.e. the last guys to sign because everyone else is so busy trying to make trades or add the big free agents to their team. In other words, Meeks was going to be on the market 3 weeks from now.

The reason I have an issue with it is that Jamal Crawford got traded to Atlanta, and there's rumors of a buyout. Instead of Ernie waiting for the market to settle for situations like this, he signs Meeks for the BAE and calls it a day. IDK how much Crawford is going to get, he might get the minimum from some team but for the sake of argument, he gets paid out $12 million of his $14 million due, we sign him for the BAE and he comes out ahead almost a couple million bucks. What's the rush?

....and on-top of that, guys like Keene will probably not be given serious consideration, cause Ernie likes to wrap things up quickly.

[pcbothwel]

The problem I have with Ernie is this: dude wants to end his offseason early so he can spend the rest of the time on vacation.

Case in point: he signed Jodie Meeks. He's probably a tier 5 free agent, i.e. the last guys to sign because everyone else is so busy trying to make trades or add the big free agents to their team. In other words, Meeks was going to be on the market 3 weeks from now.

The reason I have an issue with it is that Jamal Crawford got traded to Atlanta, and there's rumors of a buyout. Instead of Ernie waiting for the market to settle for situations like this, he signs Meeks for the BAE and calls it a day. IDK how much Crawford is going to get, he might get the minimum from some team but for the sake of argument, he gets paid out $12 million of his $14 million due, we sign him for the BAE and he comes out ahead almost a couple million bucks. What's the rush?

....and on-top of that, guys like Keene will probably not be given serious consideration, cause Ernie likes to wrap things up quickly.

Raf, I have to disagree. FA period doesnt work top down only. Yes, The premier FA sign first so the next group of non-elite starters/6th men can sign their contracts. But players like Korver, Galloway, McLemore, Holiday, and Meeks all signed too.

EG and Co. (I feel like I need to include "& Co" when referring to EG so people dont get caught up) are smart in shoring up the bench players we needed (Experienced G's to compliment Sato/Mac and backup PF). Now, we can sit back and see if anyone slips through the cracks. Resign Otto, Keep the MLE available and get a TPE from Bogs SnT. Those are the things we should do and we are doing it.

BTW, Jamal Crawford hasnt been better than Meeks in probably 3 years...no thanks.

[Rafael122]

The problem I have with Ernie is this: dude wants to end his offseason early so he can spend the rest of the time on vacation.

Case in point: he signed Jodie Meeks. He's probably a tier 5 free agent, i.e. the last guys to sign because everyone else is so busy trying to make trades or add the big free agents to their team. In other words, Meeks was going to be on the market 3 weeks from now.

The reason I have an issue with it is that Jamal Crawford got traded to Atlanta, and there's rumors of a buyout. Instead of Ernie waiting for the market to settle for situations like this, he signs Meeks for the BAE and calls it a day. IDK how much Crawford is going to get, he might get the minimum from some team but for the sake of argument, he gets paid out $12 million of his $14 million due, we sign him for the BAE and he comes out ahead almost a couple million bucks. What's the rush?

....and on-top of that, guys like Keene will probably not be given serious consideration, cause Ernie likes to wrap things up quickly.

Raf, I have to disagree. FA period doesnt work top down only. Yes, The premier FA sign first so the next group of non-elite starters/6th men can sign their contracts. But players like Korver, Galloway, McLemore, Holiday, and Meeks all signed too.

EG and Co. (I feel like I need to include "& Co" when referring to EG so people dont get caught up) are smart in shoring up the bench players we needed (Experienced G's to compliment Sato/Mac and backup PF). Now, we can sit back and see if anyone slips through the cracks. Resign Otto, Keep the MLE available and get a TPE from Bogs SnT. Those are the things we should do and we are doing it.

BTW, Jamal Crawford hasnt been better than Meeks in probably 3 years...no thanks.

Our roster is capped out and we're at the roster limit, we can't sit and wait to see what falls through the cracks because we can't afford it lol.

He did the same thing last year, he was on Horford, when that went south he had money to burn and spent it on Mahinmi when he didn't have to. Willie Reed signed on July 13, Dedmon signed on July 14. Again, what's the rush?

[closg00]

"A lot of times what happens, when you wait on situations, the other team might get better offers along the way. Then the trade might go away.

~Ernest Grunfeld

[pcbothwel]

....and on-top of that, guys like Keene will probably not be given serious consideration, cause Ernie likes to wrap things up quickly.

Raf, I have to disagree. FA period doesnt work top down only. Yes, The premier FA sign first so the next group of non-elite starters/6th men can sign their contracts. But players like Korver, Galloway, McLemore, Holiday, and Meeks all signed too.

EG and Co. (I feel like I need to include "& Co" when referring to EG so people dont get caught up) are smart in shoring up the bench players we needed (Experienced G's to compliment Sato/Mac and backup PF). Now, we can sit back and see if anyone slips through the cracks. Resign Otto, Keep the MLE available and get a TPE from Bogs SnT. Those are the things we should do and we are doing it.

BTW, Jamal Crawford hasnt been better than Meeks in probably 3 years...no thanks.

Our roster is capped out and we're at the roster limit, we can't sit and wait to see what falls through the cracks because we can't afford it lol.

He did the same thing last year, he was on Horford, when that went south he had money to burn and spent it on Mahinmi when he didn't have to. Willie Reed signed on July 13, Dedmon signed on July 14. Again, what's the rush?

Raf, The roster is 15 player plus 2 two way players.
We have 13 guaranteed players with Otto. We then have McLellan, Ochefu, and Jenkins. We all assume McLellan wont be cut, but I dont think EG would hesitate to cut Ochefu/Jenkins for a 15th person if we really wanted.

For the two way players, we currently only have Michael Young in one spot. I assume the other goes to either Devin Robinson or Marcus Keene.

Again, I am not seeing the big deal. If someone falls through the cracks we cut Ochefu and sign them. If not, no worries.
This isnt the NFL. We dont need to make a move in the summer. We can play this roster to a 4th seed to the trade deadline, then we can see what opportunities present themselves.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Ernie's big fail was last off-season.

Never mind after years of prep work for KD to DC resulted in Durant not even giving the Wizards a meeting.

With that said, the real blunder was his ineptness with plan B.

Horford.

He actually narrowed his choice down to Washington or Boston, our biggest competitor to challenge Cleveland. How do you not convince him that teaming him with Wall and Beal and Porter and Oubre and Morris and Gortat was the better option?? How do you not stress Wall's ability to make players better? The KD situation was clearly out of Ernie's league all together, but Horford was there to be had, and Ernie simply got out done by Ainge in convincing him and closing the sale.

That was the difference in Boston getting to the ECF instead of us. You go into the playoffs with a starting 5 of Wall, Beal, Porter, Morris, Horford, with a bench featuring Gortat, Oubre, and Bogdanovich, we would of been in the ECF, and been a serious challenge to the Cavs.

That was the move. That was our opportunity. And Ernie blew it.

Instead we got Mahinmi.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Ernie's big fail was last off-season.

Never mind after years of prep work for KD to DC resulted in Durant not even giving the Wizards a meeting.

With that said, the real blunder was his ineptness with plan B.

Horford.

He actually narrowed his choice down to Washington or Boston, our biggest competitor to challenge Cleveland. How do you not convince him that teaming him with Wall and Beal and Porter and Oubre and Morris and Gortat was the better option?? How do you not stress Wall's ability to make players better? The KD situation was clearly out of Ernie's league all together, but Horford was there to be had, and Ernie simply got out done by Ainge in convincing him and closing the sale.

That was the difference in Boston getting to the ECF instead of us. You go into the playoffs with a starting 5 of Wall, Beal, Porter, Morris, Horford, with a bench featuring Gortat, Oubre, and Bogdanovich, we would of been in the ECF, and been a serious challenge to the Cavs.

That was the move. That was our opportunity. And Ernie blew it.

Instead we got Mahinmi.

We got Mahinmied

[BigA]

He actually narrowed his choice down to Washington or Boston, our biggest competitor to challenge Cleveland. How do you not convince him that teaming him with Wall and Beal and Porter and Oubre and Morris and Gortat was the better option?? How do you not stress Wall's ability to make players better? The KD situation was clearly out of Ernie's league all together, but Horford was there to be had, and Ernie simply got out done by Ainge in convincing him and closing the sale.

That was the difference in Boston getting to the ECF instead of us. You go into the playoffs with a starting 5 of Wall, Beal, Porter, Morris, Horford, with a bench featuring Gortat, Oubre, and Bogdanovich, we would of been in the ECF, and been a serious challenge to the Cavs.

That was the move. That was our opportunity. And Ernie blew it.

Instead we got Mahinmi.

Didn't I read somewhere that Horford said his second choice was Houston?

Edit: Here it is.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

He actually narrowed his choice down to Washington or Boston, our biggest competitor to challenge Cleveland. How do you not convince him that teaming him with Wall and Beal and Porter and Oubre and Morris and Gortat was the better option?? How do you not stress Wall's ability to make players better? The KD situation was clearly out of Ernie's league all together, but Horford was there to be had, and Ernie simply got out done by Ainge in convincing him and closing the sale.

That was the difference in Boston getting to the ECF instead of us. You go into the playoffs with a starting 5 of Wall, Beal, Porter, Morris, Horford, with a bench featuring Gortat, Oubre, and Bogdanovich, we would of been in the ECF, and been a serious challenge to the Cavs.

That was the move. That was our opportunity. And Ernie blew it.

Instead we got Mahinmi.

Didn't I read somewhere that Horford said his second choice was Houston?

From what I read, I believe it was David Aldridge if I remember right, but it was definitely down to Boston and DC. Ernie met with him, then he announced he was choosing Boston.


http://wizofawes.com/2016/07/02/washington-wizards-better-al-horford-than-boston-celtics-nba-free-agency-2016/

https://www.celticsblog.com/2016/7/2/12087604/report-al-horford-choosing-between-boston-celtics-and-washington

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/wizards-remain-in-the-hunt-to-sign-coveted-free-agent-forward-al-horford/2016/07/02/5c786556-4092-11e6-80bc-d06711fd2125_story.html?utm_term=.85c9b856969e

https://www.bulletsforever.com/2016/7/2/12088688/al-horford-washington-wizards-nba-free-agency-2016

Adrian Wojnarowski ✔ @wojespn
Horford had been incredibly intrigued with Wizards and there was a time that he preferred Washington's talent over Boston's. Wild finish.
7:26 PM - 2 Jul 2016

[montestewart]

He actually narrowed his choice down to Washington or Boston, our biggest competitor to challenge Cleveland. How do you not convince him that teaming him with Wall and Beal and Porter and Oubre and Morris and Gortat was the better option?? How do you not stress Wall's ability to make players better? The KD situation was clearly out of Ernie's league all together, but Horford was there to be had, and Ernie simply got out done by Ainge in convincing him and closing the sale.

That was the difference in Boston getting to the ECF instead of us. You go into the playoffs with a starting 5 of Wall, Beal, Porter, Morris, Horford, with a bench featuring Gortat, Oubre, and Bogdanovich, we would of been in the ECF, and been a serious challenge to the Cavs.

That was the move. That was our opportunity. And Ernie blew it.

Instead we got Mahinmi.

Didn't I read somewhere that Horford said his second choice was Houston?

Edit: Here it is.

I remember that. Since it was just one comment, in Houston, to (I think) a Houston reporter, maybe take it with a grain of salt. Houston apparently pitched first, and maybe by the end of the decision process, they had fallen away. There were a lot of reports that Washington was in it, even if they were a distant second. I recall OKC was also interested, and you have to figure playing with Westbrook might interest Horford, even in OKC with a cheap owner.

One thing that makes the Houston story sound logical is that Houston, like Boston, has more proactive management than Washington. Washington's primary selling point is its three young stars, stars that Terd n Ernie sort of stumbled into. Going by Win Shares, Houston is led by Harden and Boston is led by Thomas and Crowder, all players that were missed out on by the Wizards and acquired through proactive, assertive, aggressive GMing. I have a hard time seeing EG pulling off a trade for Paul, or even signing Hayward away from the Jazz. Even with an All-NBA player, EG still looks like he's treading water.

[Rafael122]

Tyreke Evans, 1 year $3.3 million deal yet Ernie doubled that and gave it to Meeks. Mind boggling.

[Dark Faze]

was about to complain about that but tyreke apparently hasn't played more than 25 games max the last 3 years

[Kanyewest]

was about to complain about that but tyreke apparently hasn't played more than 25 games max the last 3 years

You may have misread it- since Evans played with 2 teams last season. Still, the point stands that he is injury prone given that Evans played 40 games last season, and 25 the year before.

[montestewart]

was about to complain about that but tyreke apparently hasn't played more than 25 games max the last 3 years

You may have misread it- since Evans played with 2 teams last season. Still, the point stands that he is injury prone given that Evans played 40 games last season, and 25 the year before.

65 games over the last two seasons tops Meeks' 39 games over the same period. I guess they've established $3.5 million per as the going rate for busted up guards

[closg00]

was about to complain about that but tyreke apparently hasn't played more than 25 games max the last 3 years

You may have misread it- since Evans played with 2 teams last season. Still, the point stands that he is injury prone given that Evans played 40 games last season, and 25 the year before.

I don't understand why teams don't do what the Clippers did, they got the best PG available playing overseas for $6M instead of signing broken-down players who may be missing 20-30 games.

[80sballboy]

I'd rather have a semi-healthy Meeks than Evans for our needs off the bench. Evans is becoming a journeyman for a reason.

[mhd]

I'd rather have a semi-healthy Meeks than Evans for our needs off the bench. Evans is becoming a journeyman for a reason.

Evans can create his own shot. I would have signed him for one year as a 6th man who can play multiple positions. If we never wasted our cap space last year on Nicholson & Mahinmi, we wouldn't be in this situation.

[FAH1223]

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It's looking like the only way Grunfeld leaves is Wall to bolt in 2019 Free Agency

[payitforward]

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Lets hear it for Paul Pressey -- simple, straightforward & on the money.

[closg00]

Yes, Paul Pressy has been observing Ernie longer than we have, Ernie is gone from the Bucks, but certainly can identify with our pain.