Political Roundtable Part XII

[JWizmentality]

Indeed this is America and Muslim women HAVE A CHOICE as to how they dress in public, assuming their religion gives them a choice. They certainly don't have a choice in many Muslim countries.

Does Islam dictate how women should dress 24/7?

If they are genuinely afraid of being harassed by strangers during this Trump's mania they can change their clothes to avoid it completely, or they can call the cops and report it. They have options here that they don't have in Saudi Arabia.

Holy fascism batman.

Please spare me. If the harassment of Muslims is as bad here as people are claiming, I don't think a change of clothes is major price to pay for the sake of personal safety.

Is dressing like a typical American some kind of heresy in Islam?

Or maybe the stories of harassment are being exaggerated.

Didn't know there was such a thing as typical American.

Typical?



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[AFM]

Holy fascism batman.

Please spare me. If the harassment of Muslims is as bad here as people are claiming, I don't think a change of clothes is major price to pay for the sake of personal safety.

Is dressing like a typical American some kind of heresy in Islam?

Or maybe the stories of harassment are being exaggerated.

Didn't know there was such a thing as typical American.

Typical?



Sent from my ASUS_Z01BDC using Tapatalk

That's the typical Ohioan...

[tontoz]

Holy fascism batman.

Please spare me. If the harassment of Muslims is as bad here as people are claiming, I don't think a change of clothes is major price to pay for the sake of personal safety.

Is dressing like a typical American some kind of heresy in Islam?

Or maybe the stories of harassment are being exaggerated.

Didn't know there was such a thing as typical American.

Typical?



Sent from my ASUS_Z01BDC using Tapatalk

Then let me clue you in. When you walk down a city street and see other people you typically cant tell what religion they are by looking at them. Hope that helps.

[JWizmentality]

Please spare me. If the harassment of Muslims is as bad here as people are claiming, I don't think a change of clothes is major price to pay for the sake of personal safety.

Is dressing like a typical American some kind of heresy in Islam?

Or maybe the stories of harassment are being exaggerated.

Didn't know there was such a thing as typical American.

Typical?



Sent from my ASUS_Z01BDC using Tapatalk

Then let me clue you in. When you walk down a city street and see other people you typically cant tell what religion they are by looking at them. Hope that helps.

Nope. I don't go strolling down the road playing "Guess the god"

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[dckingsfan]

Watch on YouTube

[JWizmentality]

You approach the problem as "You ungrateful wretches, dress properly or go back to Saudi Arabia."

As opposed to addressing the problem of a mindset that oppresses people for their beliefs. You think an American women wearing a hijab is oppressed? You ignorant little man.

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[tontoz]

Nope. I don't go strolling down the road playing "Guess the god"

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Exactly. So when a Muslim woman gets harassed by a crazy Muslim hating stranger, like what happened at the airport when a man beat up a woman, Muslims have to ask themselves if it is really a good idea to advertise their religion in public given the current climate.

Obviously the guy will be locked up but that doesn't make the bruises feel any better.

They can practice their religion without walking around with an "I'm a Muslim" sign around their necks, especially at an airport of all places. Might as well put a target on their backs. At the very least they should consider carrying pepper spray.

[tontoz]

You approach the problem as "You ungrateful wretches, dress properly or go back to Saudi Arabia."

As opposed to addressing the problem of a mindset that oppresses people for their beliefs. You think an American women wearing a hijab is oppressed? You ignorant little man.

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What exactly do you propose to prevent Muslims from being harassed right now?

[dckingsfan]

And AFM's robot - no offense AFM

Watch on YouTube

[montestewart]

Please spare me. If the harassment of Muslims is as bad here as people are claiming, I don't think a change of clothes is major price to pay for the sake of personal safety.

Is dressing like a typical American some kind of heresy in Islam?

Or maybe the stories of harassment are being exaggerated.

Didn't know there was such a thing as typical American.

Typical?



Sent from my ASUS_Z01BDC using Tapatalk

Then let me clue you in. When you walk down a city street and see other people you typically cant tell what religion they are by looking at them. Hope that helps.

I understand. Part of fitting in here is conforming to a look, Gap, Old Navy, Dockers, maybe H&M if you're feigning hipness. If you want to not fit in, dress like a Mennonite, a Sikh, an Orthodox Jew, a Buddhist monk, etc. Sure, they stand out, I look at them. I look at punk rockers with mohawks too, and people wearing sandwich boards, security dudes with wires in their ears, and people driving vans painted with warnings of the coming apocalypse. People sometimes stand out, like the only white in a black neighborhood, the only black in a white neighborhood, anyone wearing non-western clothes, or a man wearing only cutoff jeans in the middle of the winter. There's nothing wrong with noticing that someone looks different, but when people are attacked because they look different, that's a lot more noticeable.



Elijah Alfred Alexander Jr., AKA Nature Boy, in Lafayette Park

[AFM]

And AFM's robot - no offense AFM

Watch on YouTube

None taken. I've got mine preordered. Although I'm triggered that you'd assume I'd want a female one.

[AFM]

About 20 minutes in, and this is one of the best podcasts I've ever heard

I wish I was friends with Alex jones, he's like this autistic savant of politics

If anyone has no plans tonight, I highly suggest cracking open a 6 pack and listening to this

Watch on YouTube

[AFM]

Joe rogan is one of the best interviewers ever. He listens to any of his guests, regardless of their views, and is really, really good at getting them to talk on and on about their views.
He's a way better interviewer than comedian IMO.

[AFM]

You approach the problem as "You ungrateful wretches, dress properly or go back to Saudi Arabia."

As opposed to addressing the problem of a mindset that oppresses people for their beliefs. You think an American women wearing a hijab is oppressed? You ignorant little man.

Sent from my ASUS_Z01BDC using Tapatalk

What exactly do you propose to prevent Muslims from being harassed right now?

You and Jwiz have been going back and forth, I don't agree with all your points, but in a lot of ways you're right. I'm half Persian, my mom came here when she was 2. Islam has totally ruined Iran, I'm sure you're familiar with the Iranian revolution. Before the revolution, Iran was a fairly progressive, cosmopolitan country. Women had rights. They could go to college, dress as they like, etc.
What sfam and Jwiz don't recognize, is these women who wear the hijab, or whatever, wear it, because they've been essentially brainwashed since birth, saying, you must wear this, it's the law, and allah with smite you if you show any skin, or any hair in Iran.
Even if they come here, they have the same views. They think it's a sin against allah to not wear the hijab.
Equating it to wearing a cross necklace is "wee tahded". Christians aren't persecuted for not wearing a cross.

That being said, I would never say that they should be forced to dress differently. If they want to oppress themselves, that's their choice.

[tontoz]

You approach the problem as "You ungrateful wretches, dress properly or go back to Saudi Arabia."

As opposed to addressing the problem of a mindset that oppresses people for their beliefs. You think an American women wearing a hijab is oppressed? You ignorant little man.

Sent from my ASUS_Z01BDC using Tapatalk

What exactly do you propose to prevent Muslims from being harassed right now?

You and Jwiz have been going back and forth, I don't agree with all your points, but in a lot of ways you're right. I'm half Persian, my mom came here when she was 2. Islam has totally ruined Iran, I'm sure you're familiar with the Iranian revolution. Before the revolution, Iran was a fairly progressive, cosmopolitan country. Women had rights. They could go to college, dress as they like, etc.
What sfam and Jwiz don't recognize, is these women who wear the hijab, or whatever, wear it, because they've been essentially brainwashed since birth, saying, you must wear this, it's the law, and allah with smite you if you show any skin, or any hair in Iran.
Even if they come here, they have the same views. They think it's a sin against allah to not wear the hijab.
Equating it to wearing a cross necklace is "wee tahded". Christians aren't persecuted for not wearing a cross.

That being said, I would never say that they should be forced to dress differently. If they want to oppress themselves, that's their choice.

The airport incident is front and center in my mind right now. The guy beat up a woman for no reason other than the fact she is Muslim. Obviously the guy is a dbag and is entirely in the wrong but that doesn't help the woman who got beat up, or any other woman who might face a similar situation.

I used to work with a guy from Iran. He didn't like talking about his home country so i didn't bother him about it. I don't even know what his religion was. Funny guy though we had a lot of laughs.

[sfam]

I didn't ignore anything. The quote is self explanatory. They weren't look specifically at sexual crimes, they were looking at all crimes. Sexual crimes are likely a pretty small percentage of all crimes.

I can't tell someone's religion just by looking at them. Can you?

The only way I would know a stranger's religion is by how they are dressed. If Muslim women don't want to be harassed by random strangers all they have to do is change their clothes. I don't see this as a hardship, just an inconvenience.

If I went through the refugee ordeal and was welcomed into another country with open arms I would like to think I would be relieved and grateful, not looking for women to assault.

The lengths people like you go through to rationalize Muslim behavior is no different than what Trump's press secretary has been doing.

To be clear, this is no different from telling women if they don't want to be harassed, to dress conservatively - cover themselves from head to toe strangely enough. Worse, you're actually saying its cool to accost the Muslim women who wear a hijab. I would just point out the obvious - its their right to wear whatever they want, just as its your right to dye your hair red or wear a nose ring. There really isn't any more to say on this - tolerating hate toward a group of people for irrational reasons doesn't allow you to inflict fear on them, even if you disapprove of their headwear.

And I again would point out my great grandmother wore a head scarf her whole life, and never inspired fear in anyone. If you were predisposed to be negative toward a race or religion for unspecified reasons, wouldn't it make sense to go after the young men, instead of the women with children? Seriously - talk about bully behavior that has no bounds. Don't challenge the men, just pick on the defenseless women.

Regarding your judgement of refugees who have left war torn areas, I don't judge them any more than I judge soldiers suffering from PTSD. In both cases, while I can empathize, those are shoes I hope never to wear. This is different from allowing or tolerating rape or horrible things some soldiers have done, but again, the debunking of the rape story is above and your source was flawed - everything is islamophobia on that site.

[sfam]

Indeed this is America and Muslim women HAVE A CHOICE as to how they dress in public, assuming their religion gives them a choice. They certainly don't have a choice in many Muslim countries.

Does Islam dictate how women should dress 24/7?

If they are genuinely afraid of being harassed by strangers during this Trump's mania they can change their clothes to avoid it completely, or they can call the cops and report it. They have options here that they don't have in Saudi Arabia.

No, does Christianity dictate what you wear?

Call the cops? Seriously? That's the solution to rampant harassment and attacks? You really are missing context here. Tell me, how many cops do you think hold similar views as you? There's actually lots of nonwhites who don't always look at cops or the FBI as the good guys. More to the point, you just said its perfectly fine for them to be harassed if they stand out.

As I was told this morning by a Muslim American activist organizing local chapters, "We thought it was bad after 9/11, but that was nothing like this..."

[sfam]

Indeed this is America and Muslim women HAVE A CHOICE as to how they dress in public, assuming their religion gives them a choice. They certainly don't have a choice in many Muslim countries.

Does Islam dictate how women should dress 24/7?

If they are genuinely afraid of being harassed by strangers during this Trump's mania they can change their clothes to avoid it completely, or they can call the cops and report it. They have options here that they don't have in Saudi Arabia.

Holy fascism batman.

Please spare me. If the harassment of Muslims is as bad here as people are claiming, I don't think a change of clothes is major price to pay for the sake of personal safety.

Is dressing like a typical American some kind of heresy in Islam?

Or maybe the stories of harassment are being exaggerated.

Unfortunately you and I both know this isn't the issue. The harassment on women with hijabs are happening because they are easy targets. But the real goal is their removal from the country. Taking off the hijab actually makes that far more likely, not less. Nonviolent civil resistance is CLEARLY the right response, not submission.

And again, you're gonna believe whatever you want. I would suggest if you are actually interested to know if the harassment is as bad as most are saying (I don't think you that interested), you could actually ask a Muslim person. Perhaps many.

And I again point out the real concern from an instability standpoint - if Muslims now look at white men as an unspecified scary thing - "the other" if you will - this really does start the cycle of grievance that opens them up to the radicalization process. This is a real problem. Hatred begets more hatred.

[tontoz]

Indeed this is America and Muslim women HAVE A CHOICE as to how they dress in public, assuming their religion gives them a choice. They certainly don't have a choice in many Muslim countries.

Does Islam dictate how women should dress 24/7?

If they are genuinely afraid of being harassed by strangers during this Trump's mania they can change their clothes to avoid it completely, or they can call the cops and report it. They have options here that they don't have in Saudi Arabia.

No, does Christianity dictate what you wear?

Call the cops? Seriously? That's the solution to rampant harassment and attacks? You really are missing context here. Tell me, how many cops do you think hold similar views as you? There's actually lots of nonwhites who don't always look at cops or the FBI as the good guys. More to the point, you just said its perfectly fine for them to be harassed if they stand out.

As I was told this morning by a Muslim American activist organizing local chapters, "We thought it was bad after 9/11, but that was nothing like this..."

Now you are just being an idiot. Where exactly did i say it is perfectly fine for them to be harassed if they stand out? You are just making **** up to pretend you are making sense, or are just too stupid to understand English. Seriously your SJW mindset is a big reason why Trump is in the White House right now.

Calling the cops is absolutely one solution to being harassed, especially if it is someone they know. Obviously not all cops are great but Muslim women are not really at risk from cops in the same way black men are. Pepper spray is another solution, as is dressing in a way not to call attention to their religion.

I see absolutely no solutions coming from you other than pie in the sky nonsense.If you have an idea that could have prevented that woman from getting beat up at the airport then please share. I won't hold my breath.

[sfam]

Now you are just being an idiot. Where exactly did i say it is perfectly fine for them to be harassed if they stand out? You are just making **** up to pretend you are making sense. Seriously your SJW mindset is a big reason why Trump is in the White House right now.

I live in Virginia, so my peacebuilder mindset is in fact not responsible. Comey and Putin, for instance are far more responsible. History will bear this out.

Calling the cops is absolutely one solution to being harassed, especially if it is someone they know. Obviously not all cops are great but Muslim women are not really at risk from cops in the same way black men are. Pepper spray is another solution, as is dressing in a way not to call attention to their religion.

I see absolutely no solutions coming from you other than pie in the sky nonsense.If you have an idea that could have prevented that woman from getting beat up at the airport then please share. I won't hold my breath.

Yeah, nonviolent civil resistance. I mentioned this before. Call it pie in the sky if you will, but this is what you do to authoritarian regimes. It works, and has since Gandhi first initiated it, and Martin Luther King and others followed. This is the solution.

The solution is not banning Muslims, or inflaming hatred from the bully pulpit. Nor is it flat out lies or ignorance as to the cause. You and those like you have made a caricature of 1.6 billion people on earth. THAT is idiotic. Truly.