Discussing Other Teams' Moves - Part 8

[nate33]

I'd rather have the Wizards outlook. Not being a homer here but the Magic can't shoot. Even with Suggs in there and healthy, they still couldn't shoot. They're running a 2000s, middie type of offense in 2025. Anthony Black, can't shoot. KCP, forgot to shoot.

It really just depends on how lucky we get in the draft. If we end up with the 5th pick (which is the most likely outcome) we are still in very bad shape with no stars on the roster and multiple more years of tanking to find one. And we also risk that our existing young players become just good enough that it gets harder to tank and we end up looking like Portland or Toronto. I'd rather be Orlando than the next Toronto.

[JAR69]

I'd rather have the Wizards outlook. Not being a homer here but the Magic can't shoot. Even with Suggs in there and healthy, they still couldn't shoot. They're running a 2000s, middie type of offense in 2025. Anthony Black, can't shoot. KCP, forgot to shoot.

It really just depends on how lucky we get in the draft. If we end up with the 5th pick (which is the most likely outcome) we are still in very bad shape with no stars on the roster and multiple more years of tanking to find one. And we also risk that our existing young players become just good enough that it gets harder to tank and we end up looking like Portland or Toronto. I'd rather be Orlando than the next Toronto.

This should be in the trade thread, but Orlando's shooting woes make me think they are a good trade partner for Poole, even now. A trade built around Poole for KCP plus filler (Harris TO picked up, for instance) + the DEN pick this year (#25) could work. It seems fair, but maybe that's not quite enough, with Poole being good in the locker room and still only 25 years old. It could depend on where we pick - if we end up at 2 and get Harper, shipping Poole makes more sense.

I'd consider then flipping the #25 pick (or the #18) for a future FRP.

[nate33]

I'd rather have the Wizards outlook. Not being a homer here but the Magic can't shoot. Even with Suggs in there and healthy, they still couldn't shoot. They're running a 2000s, middie type of offense in 2025. Anthony Black, can't shoot. KCP, forgot to shoot.

It really just depends on how lucky we get in the draft. If we end up with the 5th pick (which is the most likely outcome) we are still in very bad shape with no stars on the roster and multiple more years of tanking to find one. And we also risk that our existing young players become just good enough that it gets harder to tank and we end up looking like Portland or Toronto. I'd rather be Orlando than the next Toronto.

This should be in the trade thread, but Orlando's shooting woes make me think they are a good trade partner for Poole, even now. A trade built around Poole for KCP plus filler (Harris TO picked up, for instance) + the DEN pick this year (#25) could work. It seems fair, but maybe that's not quite enough, with Poole being good in the locker room and still only 25 years old. It could depend on where we pick - if we end up at 2 and get Harper, shipping Poole makes more sense.

I'd consider then flipping the #25 pick (or the #18) for a future FRP.

I'd definitely be interested in such a deal if we landed the #1 or #2 pick in this draft and acquire what will hopefully be a legit star. Then we dump Poole which would probably cost us a couple of games and help the tank. And then, next summer, with Poole off the books and Smart and Middleton also off the books, we would have nearly infinite cap room. I would start that summer by trying to poach one of Smith or Eason from Houston. (Houston will have trouble paying all their young guys when they come off their rookie contracts, so they will be limited in how much they are willing to match.) JJJ is also an option.

[Rafael122]

I'd rather have the Wizards outlook. Not being a homer here but the Magic can't shoot. Even with Suggs in there and healthy, they still couldn't shoot. They're running a 2000s, middie type of offense in 2025. Anthony Black, can't shoot. KCP, forgot to shoot.

It really just depends on how lucky we get in the draft. If we end up with the 5th pick (which is the most likely outcome) we are still in very bad shape with no stars on the roster and multiple more years of tanking to find one. And we also risk that our existing young players become just good enough that it gets harder to tank and we end up looking like Portland or Toronto. I'd rather be Orlando than the next Toronto.

I don't even know if Franz and Paolo are stars. Is Paolo one because of where he was drafted? It feels like both are being shoehorned so until I see more, they might be Robins instead of Batmans.

[payitforward]

It really just depends on how lucky we get in the draft. If we end up with the 5th pick (which is the most likely outcome) we are still in very bad shape with no stars on the roster and multiple more years of tanking to find one. And we also risk that our existing young players become just good enough that it gets harder to tank and we end up looking like Portland or Toronto. I'd rather be Orlando than the next Toronto.

This should be in the trade thread, but Orlando's shooting woes make me think they are a good trade partner for Poole, even now. A trade built around Poole for KCP plus filler (Harris TO picked up, for instance) + the DEN pick this year (#25) could work. It seems fair, but maybe that's not quite enough, with Poole being good in the locker room and still only 25 years old. It could depend on where we pick - if we end up at 2 and get Harper, shipping Poole makes more sense.

I'd consider then flipping the #25 pick (or the #18) for a future FRP.

I'd definitely be interested in such a deal if we landed the #1 or #2 pick in this draft and acquire what will hopefully be a legit star. Then we dump Poole which would probably cost us a couple of games and help the tank. And then, next summer, with Poole off the books and Smart and Middleton also off the books, we would have nearly infinite cap room. I would start that summer by trying to poach one of Smith or Eason from Houston. (Houston will have trouble paying all their young guys when they come off their rookie contracts, so they will be limited in how much they are willing to match.) JJJ is also an option.

Well done!!! Let's make it happen.

In fact, is there a way to go straight to Houston with a Poole offer that brings Eason back?

[nate33]

I'd rather have the Wizards outlook. Not being a homer here but the Magic can't shoot. Even with Suggs in there and healthy, they still couldn't shoot. They're running a 2000s, middie type of offense in 2025. Anthony Black, can't shoot. KCP, forgot to shoot.

It really just depends on how lucky we get in the draft. If we end up with the 5th pick (which is the most likely outcome) we are still in very bad shape with no stars on the roster and multiple more years of tanking to find one. And we also risk that our existing young players become just good enough that it gets harder to tank and we end up looking like Portland or Toronto. I'd rather be Orlando than the next Toronto.

I don't even know if Franz and Paolo are stars. Is Paolo one because of where he was drafted? It feels like both are being shoehorned so until I see more, they might be Robins instead of Batmans.

Paulo will be a star. That guy will definitely be a multi-time All-Star and probably an All-NBA player soon enough. He was awesome over the last 20 games this season after coming back from injury. He is averaging 34, 10 and 5 with respectable efficiency (.572 TS%) against a top 5 defense despite having absolutely no spacing around him and nobody else who can score other than Wagner. He just turned 22.

Put it this way, I'm reasonably confident Paulo will have a better career than anyone in this draft except Flagg. If I could trade our lotto pick right now (pre-lotto drawing) for Paulo, I'd do it without hesitation. I'd take the sure thing top 20-ish player (and probably better), over a 27% shot at landing one of Flagg/Harper.

[payitforward]

Wow....
What about the fact that he's posted a below average TS% all 3 years & doesn't rebound very well?

[gambitx777]

Wow....
What about the fact that he's posted a below average TS% all 3 years & doesn't rebound very well?

Right now I looked at about 8-11 players that I go these guys might be better than P.B.

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[JAR69]

This should be in the trade thread, but Orlando's shooting woes make me think they are a good trade partner for Poole, even now. A trade built around Poole for KCP plus filler (Harris TO picked up, for instance) + the DEN pick this year (#25) could work. It seems fair, but maybe that's not quite enough, with Poole being good in the locker room and still only 25 years old. It could depend on where we pick - if we end up at 2 and get Harper, shipping Poole makes more sense.

I'd consider then flipping the #25 pick (or the #18) for a future FRP.

I'd definitely be interested in such a deal if we landed the #1 or #2 pick in this draft and acquire what will hopefully be a legit star. Then we dump Poole which would probably cost us a couple of games and help the tank. And then, next summer, with Poole off the books and Smart and Middleton also off the books, we would have nearly infinite cap room. I would start that summer by trying to poach one of Smith or Eason from Houston. (Houston will have trouble paying all their young guys when they come off their rookie contracts, so they will be limited in how much they are willing to match.) JJJ is also an option.

Well done!!! Let's make it happen.

In fact, is there a way to go straight to Houston with a Poole offer that brings Eason back?

Yeah, I forgot to mention that helping the tank next year was part of the idea. Poole helps you win a number of games per year when he's on a hot streak. We saw that a few times this year. Not winning those games matters.

As for Houston - I'm not sure whty they would want Poole with FVV, Green, Amen, and Brooks on the roster. But I'm in if we can get back a FRP.

[payitforward]

Grumble grumble....

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/44807955/wizards-nba-finals-former-players-streak

[Rafael122]

The arms race for Giannis this summer will be interesting. The Bucks should absolutely trade him. They don't have control of their FRP for the next 5 years so their best bet would be to trade him to a team like Houston or OKC where they could get decent players in return and not outright tank.

[dorianwrite]

The arms race for Giannis this summer will be interesting. The Bucks should absolutely trade him. They don't have control of their FRP for the next 5 years so their best bet would be to trade him to a team like Houston or OKC where they could get decent players in return and not outright tank.

Agreed that the Bucks should trade Giannis, as even if he wants to stay, they're in cap hell with Lillard now likely being injured long-term, and there's probably no way to get off the treadmill of being an early playoff exit each year. (They still might not, fearing that their fans would riot, witness Luka and Dallas.) But make no mistake: no matter who they trade him to, no matter who they get back, they're going to be tanking. Whoever they get would be joining a team with...who, exactly? Dame coming off an Achilles? Aged Brook Lopez and aging Bobby Portis? AJ Green? The brilliance that is Kyle Kuzma?

Milwaukee's soon to be either a treadmill team or a complete teardown. Without Giannis, they've got zip.

[closg00]

Yup, I hope Alex/Tristan develop into threats

Read on Twitter

[payitforward]

Yup, I hope Alex/Tristan develop into threats

Read on Twitter

Doc's been talking about the potential for this kind of development in the league.

[gambitx777]

I don't understand how these bucks people have jobs? Like drew holiday may be on the down slide but so is dame. That made no sense. They haven't picked one good draft pick in years that they haven't traded away. The kuzma trade was just brain dead.

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[AFM]

Same way Ernie Grunfeld had a long ass tenure

[mhd]

I don't understand how these bucks people have jobs? Like drew holiday may be on the down slide but so is dame. That made no sense. They haven't picked one good draft pick in years that they haven't traded away. The kuzma trade was just brain dead.

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Because Jrue SUCKED in the playoffs as a primary scoring option off of Giannis. He's great in Boston as a 4th/5th scoring option no one guards with good defenders, but he was horrendous offensively in their last playoff run. They knew they couldn't win with Jrue as a secondary scorer next to Giannis and gambled on Dame. It didn't work out, but it was a move they had to do to compete in the East.

[payitforward]

Ok, here's an unusual move by another team!

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/280288/Celtics-Hire-Former-Chess-Prodigy-Josh-Waitzkin-As-Performance-Consultant

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Ok, here's an unusual move by another team!

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/280288/Celtics-Hire-Former-Chess-Prodigy-Josh-Waitzkin-As-Performance-Consultant

Coach Joe Mazzula played a poor end game against Coach Tom Thibodeau today.

[DCZards]

I don't understand how these bucks people have jobs? Like drew holiday may be on the down slide but so is dame. That made no sense. They haven't picked one good draft pick in years that they haven't traded away. The kuzma trade was just brain dead.

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Because Jrue SUCKED in the playoffs as a primary scoring option off of Giannis. He's great in Boston as a 4th/5th scoring option no one guards with good defenders, but he was horrendous offensively in their last playoff run. They knew they couldn't win with Jrue as a secondary scorer next to Giannis and gambled on Dame. It didn't work out, but it was a move they had to do to compete in the East.

Jrue was never supposed to be the secondary scoring option to Giannis. That's not who he is. That was supposed to Middleton.

When the Bucks did win it all in 2021, Middleton averaged almost 24 pts in the playoffs.

And Jrue did his thing as well in those playoffs, averaging 17pts, 8.7 assists, 5.7 rebs and 1.7 stls. Holiday is a winner.