Bean Burrito / Nick Young Appreciation Thread.

[dandridge 10]

I'm still glad the Wiz didn't lock him up (read: overpay) by signing him to a long-term deal this year, even if they end up spending a few more dollars to do so next summer, for several reasons:

1. Flexibility for the upcoming offseason, especially the Draft. If Lamb is the BPA (and we all know we HAVE to takethe BPA), would they change the strategy because Young is locked up? (For the record, I think Lamb will be better long term than Nick, but Nick is definitely growing on me.)

2. For all the talk that the 2012 FA market will be better, and Nick's opinion that it will be better for him as a "seller", I'm not so sure. Maybe someone does give him $9M per year. But he's already been, in effect, turned down once at that price by the entire league. If he finds a similar reaction next summer, it might bring his asking price down a bit.*

3. By puting him into a second consecutive Contract Year, it makes him prove that he "gets it", that he understands his role and has to exand his game while not trying to do things that he can't do. 2 games in, the signs are encouraging, but there are 64 more games to see how he handles it.

4. I'm still behind on the new CBA - what would be his cap figure (and McGee) if the Wiz choose to retain rights on him? Or could they even do that? If for example, they wait to finalize those two deals while pursuing a big-name FA, could they sign the other FA, then go over the cap to re-sign Nick and/or JaVale? Not sure if this is a net plus or minus in evaluating whether they should have locked him up already, think it might have been a plus under the old CBA.

* I understand that the Restricted part makes all the difference, with the Wiz now losing leverage, and other teams more willing to make an offer. So it may turn out that another team does offer $9M or $10M per year. If so, well, it's been nice knowin' ya.

Bottom line, the way Nick has played for most of last year and beginning this year, we'd probably all like to see him retained on a reasonable deal. But what qualifies as "reasonable"?

5 years, $30M (or less)? Sure thing
5 years, $35M? Well, probably
5 years, $40M? Uh, let me get back to you
4 years, $45M? Don't think so.

I tend to hope that they can keep him at something less than $7M per year, but don't know if that's possible. I do know that they can't keep the Nick/Dray/ale triumverate around, so hopefully they find a taker for Blatche, add some high BBIQ guys to the frontcourt (if they're going to keep McGee), and re-sign Nick, while keeping his role weel-defined and simplified.

Wall/Young/Singleton/Sullinger/McGee is probably a playoff team, with potential cap space in 2012 or 2013 to make a run at a big-time FA as the "final piece"?

Very good post and about where I am on the NY debate.

[LyricalRico]

Just read all of fish's post. Thanks for the stats, but I disagree with the conclusion. Detroit's problems go far beyond Ben Gordon's limitations. They have nothing in the frontcourt and have had coaching issues. And as for Chicago, their success has more to do with Rose being an MVP caliber player than Ben Gordon being gone.

Guys like Gordon and Young might be replaceable parts that can't carry a team by themselves, but that doesn't change the fact that teams still need guys like them. Yes, on bad teams they may seem overrated. But on good teams they suddenly transform into key role players. And it's not like they become different people, just that their contributions are viewed differently based on how many games their teams win. Put Young (and all of his flaws) on the Mavs and all of a sudden he's looked at differently. (That's actually not a bad look for him, especially if they end up with Howard.)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying retain him at any price. But I think that discounting a guy's contributions just because the team is losing is a bit over the top. Heck, if that where the case, any player on a lottery team would automatically be a "non-impact" player just becuase his team is losing. (Didn't somebody already make that point?) Let this team start to win a few games and I think some folks might change their tune.

Problem is we won't get to test that theory this season cuz they aren't going to actually win any games. LOL

[WizarDynasty]

i like nick shooting an open jumpshot or if the play is broken going one on one but the problem with nick is that he contributes to our losses because of the thing he doesn't do. He doesn't fight for position on defense for rebounds and gives us second chance points. He doesn't run through screens, forcing a big to second guess next time he tries to set a pick. He doesn't fight through double teams when teams are trying deny him the ball. He doesn't sprint EVER...he always jogs. He never sprints to spot quickly..always leisurely jogs waisting precious seconds when he could have already been to the spot waiting for a pass.
His lack of hustle and going all out on every play when the ball isn't in his hands actually hurts us.
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The problem with Nick Young is that he doesn't hustle and he doesn't scratch and claw and most of his opponents win the battles each night in these departments. When i see nick young battling to beat is defender for a defensive or offensive rebounding position, when i see nick young sprinting to open spots on a fast break instead of jogging, when i see nick young shove bigmen out of the way during screens, when i see nick young shove a driving defender off his driving angle with force, that's when i know nick is going to help us win in the future. Until then, let him go back to california and shot jack because that's where his mind is right now. I would sign him just so i can trade him to a crappy team in cold weather for a second round draft pick...late second round draft pick.

[7-Day Dray]

^^He's not in game shape yet, so that could be the reason why.

[popper]

If we don't extend NY soon then we have to trade him before the trade deadline, I'd offer him the following:

Yr. 1 - $8.5 M
Yr. 2 - $8.0 M
Yr. 3 - $7,0 M

If he balks, trade (rent) him to a contender for a first round pick or equivalent value.

Keep in mind NY is one of the top ten pure shooters in the NBA and his on-ball defense is decent. In other words he's worth the money.

[tontoz]

Nick signed the QO so he can't be extended. He will be a UFA this summer.

[popper]

Nick signed the QO so he can't be extended. He will be a UFA this summer.

Ok -- I asked that question yesterday and didn't get an answer. So if a player signs the QO you cannot enter into negotiations to extend him. Thanks for the clarification.

Edit: That being the case wait until a contending team needs a SG and trade him before the deadline because I guarantee he will not resign here after the season is concluded.

[MF23]

I see the ticker report above saying Nick is trying to tone down a little. Am I mistaken or does that mean Nick is trying to focus a little more? If Nick Young all the sudden got serious it would be very good for him.

[nate33]

4. I'm still behind on the new CBA - what would be his cap figure (and McGee) if the Wiz choose to retain rights on him? Or could they even do that? If for example, they wait to finalize those two deals while pursuing a big-name FA, could they sign the other FA, then go over the cap to re-sign Nick and/or JaVale? Not sure if this is a net plus or minus in evaluating whether they should have locked him up already, think it might have been a plus under the old CBA.

There is no cap hold for Young. He's effectively an unrestricted free agent with no team affiliation whatsoever. If we want to retain him, we need to have enough cap room to sign him to whatever size contract he's worth. (McGee's cap hold is $7M.)

[nate33]

I see the ticker report above saying Nick is trying to tone down a little. Am I mistaken or does that mean Nick is trying to focus a little more? If Nick Young all the sudden got serious it would be very good for him.

I think Nick has always been much more serious about his game than he is given credit for. The man totally changed his game to accommodate Flip's offense as a catch and shoot player, and he did so very quickly once Flip came aboard. Nick has also improved his physique and his 3-point shooting. He seems like such a laid back goofball on his youtube videos, but that doesn't mean he doesn't work on his game.

[hands11]

If we don't extend NY soon then we have to trade him before the trade deadline, I'd offer him the following:

Yr. 1 - $8.5 M
Yr. 2 - $8.0 M
Yr. 3 - $7,0 M

If he balks, trade (rent) him to a contender for a first round pick or equivalent value.

Keep in mind NY is one of the top ten pure shooters in the NBA and his on-ball defense is decent. In other words he's worth the money.

Top 7 last year. Top 3 so far this year.

[hands11]

I see the ticker report above saying Nick is trying to tone down a little. Am I mistaken or does that mean Nick is trying to focus a little more? If Nick Young all the sudden got serious it would be very good for him.

Yes, that was posted a few pages back.

He cut his hair. He is going to dress better and he understands that his goofy ways have hurt his contract value. That is a sign of some maturity.

I hate that they have lost all leverage to resign him.

[WizarDynasty]

yeah i do think we try and sign him with the same contract as Blatche. I think his maturity is coming along.

[fishercob]

Nick's limitations -- and the impact of his one-dimensionality -- was on display last night against the Celtics. He finished with 18 points on 7 of 15 shooting, with two rebounds, an assist and a steal.

Here's a quick breakdown of Nick's night:

Nick played the first 6:04, going scoreless on 0-3 shooting, 0-2 from distance. Boston built a 5 point lead. He sits for the next 6 minutes, and Crawford is no better, though registering 2 assists. Still the Wiz go -6 over this stretch.

Nick plays another 6 minute stretch in the 2Q, scoring 2 pts on 1-3 shooting. He gets a rebound. Angels cry. Minus-3 for the Wiz. Roger Mason replaces him for the balance of the first half +1 in 3 minutes.

So just to recap, Nick's first half is minus-8, as he shoots one for six

In the third quarter, Nick gets it going offensively going plus-9 on 5-6 shooting. He rests the first half of the 4Q, the Wizards are even while he sits. He scores 7 points as the Wizards are plus-5 over the final 6 mins of the 4q, but that's a little deceptive as the Wiz went on a 7-0 run in garbage time (the final two minutes).

There it is boys and girls -- Nick is only positively impacting the game when he's making shots. He could have challenged himself to keep Rondo of the boards and rebound some himself, or to create for his teammates, or to turn up the pressure defensively, but that's not who he is.

Again, I'm not trying to denigrate the guy, but this is why you don't tie up long term money with Nick when the Wizards have so many glaring holes. He's a one dimensional player and when his shot isn't falling he doesn't help you win.

[verbal8]

Again, I'm not trying to denigrate the guy, but this is why you don't tie up long term money with Nick when the Wizards have so many glaring holes. He's a one dimensional player and when his shot isn't falling he doesn't help you win.

I agree. While he brings reasonably efficient scoring and decent man defense, he is not a irreplaceable talent. In Leonsis outline about team building, he is the type of vet free agent you add when you are close to a championship.

[nate33]

Nick still led the team in on/off differential, and even without the garbage time boost, he still crushed all of the other starters in on/off differential, and that's on a night when his shot wasn't falling for the most part.

Also, I just checked the play by play. During the 27 minutes when both Young and Ray Allen were on the court together, Ray Allen scored a grand total of 2 points on 1 for 5 shooting. (I'm not sure which is more impressive, the 2 points allowed or the 5 shots allowed in 27 minutes.) Allen scored 11 points on 4 of 5 shooting in the 8 minutes he was on the floor without Young guarding him.

So, as usual, Young helped his team's point differential while dominating his individual counterpart. Yet the Wizards of Smart on this board always find fault with his performance.

[Ruzious]

As long as Nick is taking open jumpers, he's a helluva player - like he did in the 2nd half against Boston. But for some reason, in the first half against Boston and in the previous game, he passed up open shots in order to drive... into double teams and zones - and he played like a fool - like he used to. I don't know what he was thinking. It was frustrating to see him revert back to his old ways, but it was nice to see him wise up in the second half. But now, I gotta wonder - which Nick Young is going to show up on a game to game basis? One of the reasons it'd be real nice to get a new coach very quickly is so we can get a better feel for what Nick Young we have going forward. Obviously Flip has failed to get through to him on a consistent basis. Maybe they've tuned each other out.

[nate33]

I didn't watch the game, but if Nick is driving, my guess is that he's trying to add another dimension to his game. He's always been known as a jumpshooter and now he's trying to get to the rim and the free throw line. On the bright side, that's a good dimension to add. On the downside, if he's forcing bad shots just because he's trying to round his game individually, that's not a good thing.

[Ruzious]

The only dimension that passing up open shots in order to drive into zones and double teams adds - is the dimension of stupidity.

[nate33]

The only dimension that passing up open shots in order to drive into zones and double teams adds - is the dimension of stupidity.