Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 3

[Ruzious]

Collison is averaging 20/5 in preseason shooting 52%, 46% from 3. He is making $1.9 million this season.

And Collison is a better defender than Maynor. It is hard to fathom why EG was in such a rush to fubar up.

[verbal8]

Collison is averaging 20/5 in preseason shooting 52%, 46% from 3. He is making $1.9 million this season.

And Collison is a better defender than Maynor. It is hard to fathom why EG was in such a rush to fubar up.

I hate to seem to be defending EG, but I don't think Collison would have been available to the Wizards for 1.9 million. However would have been for 1/2 of the MLE. Ariza looks decent and a SF was drafted, so letting Webster walk was a legit option. It also would have made it possible to get a decent back-up big like Bernard James or Blair with the the other 1/2 of the MLE. It seems the only good time to use the BAE is when you are a good team, and a good player is willing to sign at a discount.

[Dat2U]

Collison is averaging 20/5 in preseason shooting 52%, 46% from 3. He is making $1.9 million this season.

And Collison is a better defender than Maynor. It is hard to fathom why EG was in such a rush to fubar up.

I hate to seem to be defending EG, but I don't think Collison would have been available to the Wizards for 1.9 million. However would have been for 1/2 of the MLE. Ariza looks decent and a SF was drafted, so letting Webster walk was a legit option. It also would have made it possible to get a decent back-up big like Bernard James or Blair with the the other 1/2 of the MLE. It seems the only good time to use the BAE is when you are a good team, and a good player is willing to sign at a discount.

After drafting Porter, I was good with letting Webster walk. I would have been all over Nate Robinson & Tyler Hansbrough (who signed in TOR for the same amount Maynor is getting).

[nate33]

Steven Adams has had a few solid games. Didn't think he was going to contribute this soon. Wasn't that WizD's guy?

He was. In YODA, I had Adams rated basically the same as McLemore, Porter and Bennett. Good prospect.

I really wanted him too. He was definitely my choice at #8. Can't say that I would have picked him at #3, but I would have considered trading down. Here's what WizD and I said about him:

America with its 290 million people don't produce human being with this type of genetic profile. He is the equivalent of Shaq. How often in the draft does a 300 pounder with a 34 inch vertical come around.

Um. Adams weighs 255 pounds. He has a standing vertical of 28.5" and a max vertical of 33".

You bring up a fair point about his uniqueness though. Here's a list of big men 250 or more with a 28" standing vertical or more with a standing reach of at least 9'-1" or more:

Shaquille O'Neal
Greg Oden
Eddy Curry
B.J. Mullens
Emeka Okafor
Jeremy Tyler
Al Jefferson
Fab Melo
Andre Drummond
Nene Hilario
Chris Taft
Ike Diogu

Interesting that we already have two of them on our roster. Also, looking at that list, it doesn't seem to be filled with superstars.

I think the 250 pound weight cutoff is too high, and ends up weeding out the guys who went pro at a young age before they packed on more weight. Drop that threshold to 240 and you add Zo, Howard and Favors to the list (plus a few scrubs). Add an agility threshold of 11.9 or lower and you end up with a pretty good list of prospects, with most of the scrubs weeded out. Here's a screen of players with standing verticals of 28" or more, weight of 240 or more, standing reach of 9-1 or more and lane agility of 11.9 or less:

Shaquille ONeal
Alonzo Mourning
Greg Oden
Dwight Howard
B.J. Mullens
Jeremy Tyler
Derrick Favors
Andre Drummond
Nene Hilario
Chris Taft
Stephen Adams

That's 10 guys on the list not including Adams. (I'm assuming Shaq and Zo meet the lane agility threshold.) Of those 10, 3 are HOFers, 3 more are/will be high quality bigs for 8-10 years, 1 had a promising career ruined by injury, 1 is a bench scrub, and 2 are duds that didn't stick around in the league. Interestingly, the scrub (Mullens) was picked 21st and the duds (Taft and Tyler) were picked in the 2nd round so clearly there were well known problems with their game. Essentially, all of the freak physical specimens who were picked in the lottery ended up being excellent NBA players whom any team would have been happy to take with a #3 overall pick.

That's a pretty powerful argument to take Adams. If not at #3, trade up to the Dallas pick and take him then.

EDIT: My guess is that Tim Duncan would make both lists, but there are no recorded standing reach, jumping or agility measurements for him.

[Dat2U]

Adams didn't look like he had a clue at Univ of Pitt though. I'm surprised by his preseason performance. However, I wonder how he'll do come regular season when the game is played at full speed. I honestly didn't think his on-court awareness was up to snuff.

[nate33]

For those who don't feel like looking it up, Adams averaged 12.1 points, 12.3 boards and 1.8 blocks per 36 with a TS% of .618 and a PER of 18.9. He played 23 minutes a game so it wasn't garbage time all the time.

[verbal8]

For those who don't feel like looking it up, Adams averaged 12.1 points, 12.3 boards and 1.8 blocks per 36 with a TS% of .618 and a PER of 18.9. He played 23 minutes a game so it wasn't garbage time all the time.

That does look promising. His fouls were very high, but that is not at all unusual for a young big.

[nate33]

Yeah, he committed just shy of 6 fouls per 36 minutes. That's not too bad for a 20-year-old big. Most centers tend to commit about 4 fouls per 36 minutes even when they're established vets.

[dobrojim]

forget if it was this thread or another but Favors had a monster game
last night vs LAC with 24/17. He's going to get paid and the team that
pays him (UTA) is likely to be pretty happy about it over time. Talk about
genetic freaks. He's a moose.

[J-Ves]

forget if it was this thread or another but Favors had a monster game
last night vs LAC with 24/17. He's going to get paid and the team that
pays him (UTA) is likely to be pretty happy about it over time. Talk about
genetic freaks. He's a moose.

Favors already got his money, he was extended 4 years 49 million by the Jazz. I think his agent did him a disservice by not letting him hit restricted free agency. I'm sure some team out there in desperate need of front court help, wink wink, nudge nudge, would of gladly offered him a max contract.

[closg00]

Royce White waived by Philly, I was rooting for Royce.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app

[payitforward]

Royce White waived by Philly, I was rooting for Royce.

Me too. Really too bad.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

forget if it was this thread or another but Favors had a monster game
last night vs LAC with 24/17. He's going to get paid and the team that
pays him (UTA) is likely to be pretty happy about it over time. Talk about
genetic freaks. He's a moose.

Until now, I have remained quiet over what I said Favors' draft night because, truthfully, I thought for sure I was wrong.

I posted among other ideas: Trade #1 pick Wall for the rights to two picks, those of Favors and Evan Turner.

Most of what I posted during the 2009 draft involved trading Wall's rights for two picks: Cousins and anyone else. However, I remember thinking Favors was younger than Wall or Cousins by a year. Favors came from Ga Tech. I thought he could become an even better player than fellow Yellow Jacket alum, Chris Bosh.

Needless to say I was WAY WRONG thinking Evan Turner would be a stud pro. My Favors/Turner for Wall idea still looks pretty brutally bad. However, if Favors starts routinely putting up 20/10 games with high blocks; his value will possibly exceed Wall's some day.

Favors is almost certainly going to put up some big numbers this season.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I just learned about The Starters.

http://thestarters.nba.com/the-starters ... ions-pt-1/

NBA Preview: 101 Questions

The newest members of NBA TV and NBA.com, The Starters, have 101 questions to preview the upcoming season.

This is probably the most-informed NBA discussion podcast I've ever heard. I like this as much as Grantland, with Simmons and Jalen Rose, but this is flat substance and information-oriented. Everything about team's moves around the league is discussed. Great listen if you have the time!

About the Starters:

(EDITED TO ADD: They talk about the Wizards at 1:07)

[verbal8]

Royce White waived by Philly, I was rooting for Royce.

Me too. Really too bad.

I do hope he is successful.

An interesting blog post about Royce White:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball- ... --nba.html

[nuposse04]

Isn't Royce a woman beater? How can people actually root for him? Anxiety disorders suck but that doesn't mean you get a pass when inflict harm on another human being.

[hands11]

LOL. There are things to pin on EG but Gil's rehab isn't one of them. Gil blow his rehab. Gil brought guns in the locker room. Gil shoulder the blame for Gil.

Actually a large part of the blame does fall on Mgmt. Are Rose and Noel left on their own to figure-out their rehabilitation, or is it done according to a well thought-out plan that is monitored by the GM? Did Ernie just throw his hands in the air and say "Hey, there is nothing I can do about managing this situation"

If Grunfeld is not the person to be held to account, then why is he the one answering questions pertaining to Gilberts rehab?
http://www.bulletsforever.com/2009/9/25 ... ert-arenas

Anyone recall this?

Still, Arenas to some degree blames the club for his failed comebacks over the past two seasons, saying he was given too much power over his own situation.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/200 ... z2iSaOyNeE

In other words, he wasn't being managed.

Gil blaming people for giving him to much power. Gil was going to do what Gil was going to do. He made that planely clear, over and over and over. And Gil was Abe's baby. Gil was bigger then EG.

[hands11]

I think that's just a copout closgoo. I'm sure Gilbert would have said exactly the opposite if the FO was micro-managing his injury. Gilbert was good at deflecting blame on others when the finger was being pointed at him (no pun intended).

Don't get me wrong, Gilbert is not blameless, but he needed an adult to reign him in. Gilbert was also not responsible for managing his minutes after returning from rehab.

Everyone remembers watching in-horror last-year as RGIII tried to continue playing on his injured knee. Eventually management stepped-in and yanked him from the game. Management has a responsibility to protect their multimillion dollar investment. We see how a hands-off approach worked with Gilbert, other teams have taken note.

Some players you can do that with, some are more drama queens and hard heads and its harder to do. RGIII would have had a melt down if they pulled him. He created that situation. Then what. I wouldn't put it past him running out on the field even after coach tried to sit him. Huge problems would follow either way you go with dealing with a player like that. Look how well RGIII took them trying to hold him back even after he tour his ACL a 2nd time. Operation patients. Make a movie about him comeback before the story was written.

He would have had a complete melt down had Shanahan pulled him. At that point, I think it needed to involve someone like Fletcher, Brian O, and Peirre and sitting down and having a heart to hart with him. He wasn't going to listen to any stinking coach. He is a baller.

Sadly for RGIII, it needed to happen they way it happened for him to learn. Some people just cant be save from themselves. Gil was that type.

[Nivek]

As someone who actually was in the locker room and spent a reasonable amount of time with the team and with Arenas, the portrayal of him as unmanageable is more than a little exaggerated. Yeah, he was definitely a clown. Yes, his thought process was...different. But he was definitely manageable -- at least when he was healthy and he was playing. No one worked or played harder than he did.

Gil's problems were these: a serious knee injury, a crappy medical/rehab team that put him back on the floor before he was truly ready, and lather-rinse-repeat.

His pranks became a distraction when he was hurt. When he was playing, when he was producing offense with elite volume AND efficiency, they weren't a problem at all.

And bringing RG3 into this is just asinine.

[closg00]

As someone who actually was in the locker room and spent a reasonable amount of time with the team and with Arenas, the portrayal of him as unmanageable is more than a little exaggerated. Yeah, he was definitely a clown. Yes, his thought process was...different. But he was definitely manageable -- at least when he was healthy and he was playing. No one worked or played harder than he did.

Gil's problems were these: a serious knee injury, a crappy medical/rehab team that put him back on the floor before he was truly ready, and lather-rinse-repeat.

His pranks became a distraction when he was hurt. When he was playing, when he was producing offense with elite volume AND efficiency, they weren't a problem at all.

And bringing RG3 into this is just asinine.

Why do you have a problem with the RGIII analogy? RGIII was playing injured and the coach pulled him ( not soon enough). RGIII's subsequent rehab was very carefully managed.

Gilbert played on a bad knee repeatedly for 40 minutes w/o being pulled by EFJ or EFG. I do not recall why/how/when Gilbert's minutes were finally reduced. Just a contrast in how the injuries were handled by the two orgs.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums mobile app