Deni Avdija

[arusinov]

Deni Avdija - Defense vs All-Stars (2021/22 NBA Season)

Watch on YouTube

;t=69s

[Ruzious]

I assume this is mostly complete BS, but I would not be shocked about him complaining about playing time to Wes.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Fake news. Deni doesn’t have that personality. He’s a pretty humble kid.

Thought so all along

HOWEVER, I have three sons around his age give or take 5 year. I Would Be PLANTING rumors tryna get my son traded up from this IF I thought this organization is inept or not really loyal to young players.

Otto Porter got coin here and had injury issues but he was REALLY GOOD with OUBRE and Wall, Beal but crap happened.

Wizards might not really value Deni enough... I dunno

Otto's playing real well at 21.5 minutes a game this season and could win a ring. He's at - by far - the lowest salary of his career at 2.4 mil and will be a free agent this offseason. This is a great opportunity for him to get a nice contract at 29. If Deni could/would shoot like him... sigh.

[arusinov]

Fake news. Deni doesn’t have that personality. He’s a pretty humble kid.

Thought so all along

HOWEVER, I have three sons around his age give or take 5 year. I Would Be PLANTING rumors tryna get my son traded up from this IF I thought this organization is inept or not really loyal to young players.

Otto Porter got coin here and had injury issues but he was REALLY GOOD with OUBRE and Wall, Beal but crap happened.

Wizards might not really value Deni enough... I dunno

Otto's playing real well at 21.5 minutes a game this season and could win a ring. He's at - by far - the lowest salary of his career at 2.4 mil and will be a free agent this offseason. This is a great opportunity for him to get a nice contract at 29. If Deni could/would shoot like him... sigh.

Well. First season Porter mostly missed due to injury. Second season he shot 33.7% 3P - somewhat better than Deni's 30.7% but not than much better and on lower volume than Deni. At same time both eFG% and TS% of Deni are better than 2nd year Porter's.

Also people made so big deal speaking about Deni's bad free throws shooting. So where is celebration now when Deni shots 76.7% for the season till now including 26/30 in last 20 games?

[Ruzious]

Thought so all along

HOWEVER, I have three sons around his age give or take 5 year. I Would Be PLANTING rumors tryna get my son traded up from this IF I thought this organization is inept or not really loyal to young players.

Otto Porter got coin here and had injury issues but he was REALLY GOOD with OUBRE and Wall, Beal but crap happened.

Wizards might not really value Deni enough... I dunno

Otto's playing real well at 21.5 minutes a game this season and could win a ring. He's at - by far - the lowest salary of his career at 2.4 mil and will be a free agent this offseason. This is a great opportunity for him to get a nice contract at 29. If Deni could/would shoot like him... sigh.

Well. First season Porter mostly missed due to injury. Second season he shot 33.7% 3P - somewhat better than Deni's 30.7% but not than much better and on lower volume than Deni. At same time both eFG% and TS% of Deni are better than 2nd year Porter's.

Also people made so big deal speaking about Deni's bad free throws shooting. So where is celebration now when Deni shots 76.7% for the season till now including 26/30 in last 20 games?

Some good points, but that's nothing special - you don't celebrate being average, and he should get to the line more often.

[arusinov]

Well. First season Porter mostly missed due to injury. Second season he shot 33.7% 3P - somewhat better than Deni's 30.7% but not than much better and on lower volume than Deni. At same time both eFG% and TS% of Deni are better than 2nd year Porter's.

Also people made so big deal speaking about Deni's bad free throws shooting. So where is celebration now when Deni shots 76.7% for the season till now including 26/30 in last 20 games?

Some good points, but that's nothing special - you don't celebrate being average, and he should get to the line more often.

The thing is - people claimed that Deni will not be good shooter not only because of his not great 3p% (which wasn't that bad in Israeli league by the way) but because "under 60% FT proves he has bad touch". Now there's progression of 58.8% -> 64.4% -> 76.7%. Yes, his 3P didn't get better for now but shouldn't it hint that touch is not really bad?

Look. Was Hedo Türkoğlu quite good shooter in NBA ( 38.4% 3P, 78.4% FT) ? Do you know that Hedo shot 63% FT and just above 30% 3P in two seasons he was in Efes Pilsen rotation in Euroleague (same age like Deni this and previous years)?

Or Dario Saric. Whatever Dario Saric's problems in NBA are - it's not shooting. Dario has good 83.7% FT average (and ok 35.8% 3P). In more or less same age as Deni previous year he shot 66% FT and 30% 3P , same age as Deni this year - 71.6% FT, 31.8% 3P.

[Ruzious]

Well. First season Porter mostly missed due to injury. Second season he shot 33.7% 3P - somewhat better than Deni's 30.7% but not than much better and on lower volume than Deni. At same time both eFG% and TS% of Deni are better than 2nd year Porter's.

Also people made so big deal speaking about Deni's bad free throws shooting. So where is celebration now when Deni shots 76.7% for the season till now including 26/30 in last 20 games?

Some good points, but that's nothing special - you don't celebrate being average, and he should get to the line more often.

The thing is - people claimed that Deni will not be good shooter not only because of his not great 3p% (which wasn't that bad in Israeli league by the way) but because "under 60% FT proves he has bad touch". Now there's progression of 58.8% -> 64.4% -> 76.7%. Yes, his 3P didn't get better for now but shouldn't it hint that touch is not really bad?

Look. Was Hedo Türkoğlu quite good shooter in NBA ( 38.4% 3P, 78.4% FT) ? Do you know that Hedo shot 63% FT and just above 30% 3P in two seasons he was in Efes Pilsen rotation in Euroleague (same age like Deni this and previous years)?

Or Dario Saric. Whatever Dario Saric's problems in NBA are - it's not shooting. Dario has good 83.7% FT average (and ok 35.8% 3P). In more or less same age as Deni previous year he shot 66% FT and 30% 3P , same age as Deni this year - 71.6% FT, 31.8% 3P.

Not sure how anyone could predict he wouldn't be a good foul shooter. While it wasn't a sure thing he'd improve, it was very likely he would. Sorry, I'm not impressed that he's become an average foul shooter.

[badinage]

I am. It’s an accomplishment. A sign of real growth.

It was by no means “very likely” that he would improve. Vesely didn’t.

This is excellent development. And bodes well for his ability to improve his 3 game. He’s coming along really, really nicely. He’s clearly a gym rat and working incredibly hard.

I love it.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Deni Avdija - Defense vs All-Stars (2021/22 NBA Season)

Watch on YouTube

;t=69s

Wow!

[dckingsfan]

Sorry, I'm not impressed that he's become an average foul shooter.

Out of context but... Anything that does impress you about Deni's game yet? Where do you think he needs to fix by next season to be more than average?

I can understand that Halliburton would be the comparison - you nailed that one.

[Ruzious]

I am. It’s an accomplishment. A sign of real growth.

It was by no means “very likely” that he would improve. Vesely didn’t.

This is excellent development. And bodes well for his ability to improve his 3 game. He’s coming along really, really nicely. He’s clearly a gym rat and working incredibly hard.

I love it.

So what if Vesely didn't. He's not in the NBA. I mean... making FT's is something even non-athletes can do. You're too easily impressed, imo.

[DCZards]

Count me among those who's been impressed by Deni's improvement as a shooter. I never doubted that he could get better as a FT and 3pt shooter (which were the biggest knocks on him coming into the NBA) but I didn't think it would happen this quickly.

[Ruzious]

Sorry, I'm not impressed that he's become an average foul shooter.

Out of context but... Anything that does impress you about Deni's game yet? Where do you think he needs to fix by next season to be more than average?

I can understand that Halliburton would be the comparison - you nailed that one.

Overall, I think his all-around game has improved - particularly on defense where he's exceeded my expectations. I hope to see a lot more improvement on his entire offensive game - particularly in his ability to be a secondary play-maker and his 3 point shooting consistency. Sometimes we see the ability there, and sometimes it doesn't show. It's probably mostly about being consistent and gaining experience. I'm not sure why people think his 3 point shooting has improved. His percentage and volume have gone down a bit this season.

[dckingsfan]

Sorry, I'm not impressed that he's become an average foul shooter.

Out of context but... Anything that does impress you about Deni's game yet? Where do you think he needs to fix by next season to be more than average?

I can understand that Halliburton would be the comparison - you nailed that one.

Overall, I think his all-around game has improved - particularly on defense where he's exceeded my expectations. I hope to see a lot more improvement on his entire offensive game - particularly in his ability to be a secondary play-maker and his 3 point shooting consistency. Sometimes we see the ability there, and sometimes it doesn't show. It's probably mostly about being consistent and gaining experience. I'm not sure why people think his 3 point shooting has improved. His percentage and volume have gone down a bit this season.

Yeah, his defense is solid. You don't need to worry about him being a contributor on that end.

On the offensive end, I think he doesn't have confidence in his 3 point shot. And that is a problem. IMO, he needs to get near to ~ .370 next year to be a positive net asset on that side of the ball. That will allow his secondary play-making to get much better.

[badinage]

You're too easily impressed, imo.

I’m a fan. Not a GM or a RealGM or a FakeGM. A fan. I get giddy when I see good things, things that lead me to feel promise and hope. I get down when I see disappointing things, or things that make me wonder why I invest so much energy and thought in something so stupid.

I don’t pretend to look at the team I love with objectivity or cool, clinical detachment — it’s not a job; my life is not on the line.

It’s fandom: an inarguably irrational proposition. I allow myself to get high and I allow myself to get low. I don’t try to mind the middle.

Do I help myself if I look upon Deni Avdija with a scout’s critical, skeptical eye? I don’t think so. How? Tell me — I’ll keep an open mind. In what way?

Is the idea that we should be undeceived? That at no time should we permit ourselves to be deluded? To succumb to even a shred of hope?

I mean, this is RealGm, not Realpolitik.

[Ruzious]

You're too easily impressed, imo.

I’m a fan. Not a GM or a RealGM or a FakeGM. A fan. I get giddy when I see good things, things that lead me to feel promise and hope. I get down when I see disappointing things, or things that make me wonder why I invest so much energy and thought in something so stupid.

I don’t pretend to look at the team I love with objectivity or cool, clinical detachment — it’s not a job; my life is not on the line.

It’s fandom: an inarguably irrational proposition. I allow myself to get high and I allow myself to get low. I don’t try to mind the middle.

Do I help myself if I look upon Deni Avdija with a scout’s critical, skeptical eye? I don’t think so. How? Tell me — I’ll keep an open mind. In what way?

Is the idea that we should be undeceived? That at no time should we permit ourselves to be deluded? To succumb to even a shred of hope?

I mean, this is RealGm, not Realpolitik.

Hey, everyone's different, and that's perfectly fine. I'm the kind of fan that likes to be objective, but hope is also very important. Sometimes it's hard to have both, and I have to stretch to find that hope, but I think there's plenty of hope with Avdija. I just never considered FT shooting as one of the long-term issues with him - since that's the one NBA skill that even I could do.

[doclinkin]

The thing is - people claimed that Deni will not be good shooter not only because of his not great 3p% (which wasn't that bad in Israeli league by the way) but because "under 60% FT proves he has bad touch". Now there's progression of 58.8% -> 64.4% -> 76.7%. Yes, his 3P didn't get better for now but shouldn't it hint that touch is not really bad?

Watching Deni grind to improve his outside shooting prior to the draft gave hope he would build his range. Free throw shooting and 3pt shooting are two areas where players can and regularly do improve with extra work. The other areas of concern for me with Deni were: can he develop a left hand? And can he figure a way to finish on the interior.

So far the answers seem to be: 'probably', and 'the future remains uncertain'. His athleticism was a plus in Euro play. He has a quick step relative to Euro-bigs, and decisive moves to react when the defense is weak. But, what was a strength in Israel is a shortcoming in the NBA. He does not have the power, muscles, balance, quick-twitch fibers, to finish in traffic. Refs this year give the benefit of the doubt to players who make the basket after the foul, they swallow their whistles on players who fumble it away when closely marked. He has improved to an average FT shooter, but won't get many chances for that to matter unless he is a threat to score. Currently he drives in close then looks to pass.

Effectively this makes him a lesser Ben Simmons. No great knock there, Simmons is an all-star talent. A tall heads-up passer with a good sense of the game and superior defense -- but not a reliable scorer when challenged. That Deni has a jumper at all and can hit a free throw doesn't close the gap on Simmons' superior athleticism, rebounding, ambidextrous handle, interior finishing, etc. Simmons can't hit a free throw, but he can dunk on anybody.

Deni could get stronger. He could improve his handle, even though as a tall ballhandler that can be a liability. Personally if I were detailing a regimen for him though, I'd want him to add 2 shots to his arsenal: a floater, and a Tim Duncan bank shot. Deni is not going to develop serious ups. He's not going to dunk in traffic. But a skilled bank shot gives you a mid-range lay-up, with angles that are tough to defend, and a reliable floater allows less high-flying players to score over taller counterparts. The floater allows interior scoring for smaller players like Chris Paul, Tony Parker, (Carlos Navarro in euroball, et al;). If Deni developed confidence in his scoring ability from 10 ft and in then his passing to outside shooters would prove even more of a threat. Then he can drive and kick to open up shots for yet more proficient 3 pt gunners.

[arusinov]

The thing is - people claimed that Deni will not be good shooter not only because of his not great 3p% (which wasn't that bad in Israeli league by the way) but because "under 60% FT proves he has bad touch". Now there's progression of 58.8% -> 64.4% -> 76.7%. Yes, his 3P didn't get better for now but shouldn't it hint that touch is not really bad?

Watching Deni grind to improve his outside shooting prior to the draft gave hope he would build his range. Free throw shooting and 3pt shooting are two areas where players can and regularly do improve with extra work. The other areas of concern for me with Deni were: can he develop a left hand? And can he figure a way to finish on the interior.

So far the answers seem to be: 'probably', and 'the future remains uncertain'. His athleticism was a plus in Euro play. He has a quick step relative to Euro-bigs, and decisive moves to react when the defense is weak. But, what was a strength in Israel is a shortcoming in the NBA. He does not have the power, muscles, balance, quick-twitch fibers, to finish in traffic. Refs this year give the benefit of the doubt to players who make the basket after the foul, they swallow their whistles on players who fumble it away when closely marked. He has improved to an average FT shooter, but won't get many chances for that to matter unless he is a threat to score. Currently he drives in close then looks to pass.

Effectively this makes him a lesser Ben Simmons. No great knock there, Simmons is an all-star talent. A tall heads-up passer with a good sense of the game and superior defense -- but not a reliable scorer when challenged. That Deni has a jumper at all and can hit a free throw doesn't close the gap on Simmons' superior athleticism, rebounding, ambidextrous handle, interior finishing, etc.

Deni could get stronger. He could improve his handle, even though as a tall ballhandler that can be a liability. Personally if I were detailing a regimen for him though, I'd want him to add 2 shots to his arsenal: a floater, and a Tim Duncan bank shot. Deni is not going to develop serious ups. He's not going to dunk in traffic. But a skilled bank shot gives you a mid-range lay-up, with angles that are tough to defend, and a reliable floater allows less high-flying players to score over taller counterparts. The floater allows interior scoring for smaller players like Chris Paul, Tony Parker, (Carlos Navarro in euroball, et al;). If Deni developed confidence in his scoring ability from 10 ft and in then his passing to outside shooters would prove even more of a threat. Then he can drive and kick to open up shots for yet more proficient 3 pt gunners.

Well. People speak here as if Deni was really ineffective scorer like Giddey or (God forbid) Killian Hayes.

With all yips, ramp-up time after injury, hitting wall at the end of December and still not getting in rithm with outside shot his TS% is close to league average at .544. There're all reasons in the world to hope that with normal rest and preparation and a bit more confidence he is sub-60% ts% scorer if he's not heavily guarded top-2 scoring option.

His left hand clealry improved. I would suggest just to count how frequently he's finishing with left this year comparing to previous.

By the way people may not believe but according to stats he's the most efficient scorer on drives to basket among all Wizards players which attempted at least 50 drives.

[doclinkin]

By the way people may not believe but according to stats he's the most efficient scorer on drives to basket among all Wizards players which attempted at least 50 drives.

Mathematics doesn't believe it either:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WAS/2022.html#all_shooting-playoffs_shooting

Of all Wiz this year who played at least 300 minutes, only Aaron Holiday and Spencer Dinwiddie's rehabilitated kneebone shot a worse % from 0-3 ft. He's behind the shortest guy on the team (Neto) and The Fatvian Flabber.

[payitforward]

...People speak here as if Deni was really ineffective scorer like Giddey....

It's all about who's doing what, my friend.

When Rui Hachimura improved his TS% by 1.4 percentage points his second year, his cheering section here saw it as a powerful indicator of development & a bright future. When Deni Avdija improves his TS% by 2.9 percentage points his second year, it doesn't mean much to that same bunch of people.

It's similar to the way Rui's 2d year drop in offensive rebounds, assists & blocks wasn't worth mentioning. In Deni's case, it's the rise in his offensive rebounds, assists & blocks that doesn't merit comment.

OTOH, as to Giddey, you can call him a "really ineffective scorer" if you want to, but then you have to look at everything else this 19-year old did his rookie year, & you see that he's an incredible young player, a guy who looks like he has the potential to be a star.

[arusinov]

By the way people may not believe but according to stats he's the most efficient scorer on drives to basket among all Wizards players which attempted at least 50 drives.

Mathematics doesn't believe it either:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WAS/2022.html#all_shooting-playoffs_shooting

Of all Wiz this year who played at least 300 minutes, only Aaron Holiday and Spencer Dimwiddie's rehabilitated kneebone shot a worse % from 0-3 ft. He's behind the shortest guy on the team (Neto) and The Fatvian Flabber.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/drives/?CF=DRIVES*G*50&PerMode=Totals&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612764&dir=1&sort=DRIVE_PTS_PCT

On 180 drives to the basket Deni scored 113 pts. KCP for example on 186 drives scored 80 pts

Sure not having yips missing easy layups and going for dunks avoiding blocks (not that he's really blocked a lot) would be better, but here's the reason why not having great shooting season and missing too much (yes I agree) "bunnies" Deni still has almost league average scoring efficiency: he is very big and very quick, and so he can get to the basket with remarkable easiness. Bertans for this matter attempted just 23 drives and scored on them... 4 points