Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza

[Jay81]

DCZards: I hope you're right about the Wizards selling tickets. I agree that if they make the playoffs they'll sell out those playoff games. I'm dubious about fans buying tickets for a mediocre team in the regular season, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

sixers were the 8th seed and advanced deep in the playoffs. Of course it took a severe injury to Rose but strange things like that can happen

[DCZards]

There were sellouts, because the feeling was - better things were ahead. There has to be some legit hope that the team is building towards contending for a championship; not just building for contending for the 8th spot in the playoffs. If that's your ultimate goal, you're a loser, imo.

Actually, I think the fanbase would be much more optimistic and hopeful about the future of this current team, especially if they were to make the playoffs next season. Twan, Gil and Caron were at the peak of their careers when we were previously a playoff team, while our nucleus now (Wall, Seraphin,Ves, Beal?) are all just starting out in their careers. They'll be a scrappy, young defensive team that people will be able to relate to.

[DCZards]

I know this is an oversimplification but I'm sensing two schools of thought here. Let's use our cap space to TRY to sign one of the free agents currently on the market (Anderson, Illysvoya, Batum, etc.), and let's not worry about Ws and Ls until we have a team that's ready to contend for the NBA title. Let's think longer term, this side says.

The other side says let's try to win a few more games now, become a respectable team (hopefully make the playoffs) led by solid vets and promising younguns, and let's TRY to make DC an attractive location for a top free agent in 2-3 years.

I prefer the latter idea.

Edit to add: I think both of these stratgies say rebuild and try to contend for more than the 6th-8th seed. It's just a different approach as to how you get there.

[W. Unseld]

An author who covers the Hornets beat for SB Nation tells Wiz fans what he thinks they're getting, it's a very good read:
http://mobile.bulletsforever.com/2012/6 ... evor-ariza

[Dat2U]

I know this is an oversimplification but I'm sensing two schools of thought here. Let's use our cap space to TRY to sign one of the free agents currently on the market (Anderson, Illysvoya, Batum, etc.), and let's not worry about Ws and Ls until we have a team that's ready to contend for the NBA title. Let's think longer term, this side says.

Huh? Who is actually saying that, lol? I think by saying lets pursue a top level free agent, it's an admission that were ready to take a huge step forward now. Adding a Batum or Ilyasova to this team would have done as much if not more to improve the short term and long term outlook of the roster than the Okafor/Ariza trade.

The other side says let's try to win a few more games now, become a respectable team (hopefully make the playoffs) led by solid vets and promising younguns, and let's TRY to make DC an attractive location for a top free agent in 2-3 years.

I prefer the latter idea.

I'm not sure this is really an either or argument. You can a pursue a free agent strategy and if your not able to get the player you want in free agency, then trading for a veteran can always been an option that is pursued.

There's nothing wrong with making an aggressive effort to improve the roster. It's the execution of that pursuit that many have a problem with. It's a poor allocation of resources to make a financial commitment of such significance for what amounts to modest roster upgrades. When I look at the timing of it all (why rush so quickly into a deal when time is actually in your favor?) and what we failed to get in return (NO paid no price for dumping what amounts to $28-29 million dollars over two yrs) I can't help but to continue to question the competency of this front office.

To me, were well on our way to wasting Wall's career in DC, much like we did with Arenas' career.

[nuposse04]

That makes Okafor seem a lot more promising, but makes me want to try to trade ariza a lot more. I think our best option might be to try to play Okafor as much as possible during till mid season and than package him for a large expiring with AB. Probably would have to be a multi team trade though.

All those things are great about Okafor...I just don't want it hampering Seraphin's development. I consider rebounding to be an instinct rather than something you can learn, but hopefully some of those instincts rub off onto seraphin.

[DCZards]

This from the sbnation Q&A with the guy who covers the Hornets.

"Okafor can still play. Well, both can still play, but Ariza comes with some.. asterisks. But to start with Okafor, I think the "prime" characterization is probably accurate. He's a very solid rebounder (I wouldn't buy his lowered rates from the lockout year as indicative of a larger trend; SSS and he was unhealthy), he excels at long tap-outs for offensive boards he has no business getting, and he's a solid screen setter. Obviously relying on him for offense will never be a smart move, but he generally can take smaller matchups if they present themselves."

"He's also a very positionally aware defender; he'll make all the appropriate rotations with ample anticipation and is strong and laterally quick enough to defend the majority of NBA post options. When Monty Williams joined the Hornets in 2010, he designed a defensive system meshing some aspects of zone as well as Thibodeau's strong-side help scheme, with Okafor as the centerpiece. New Orleans ranked in the top-5 defensively up until January when the majority of the team fell apart with injuries (Chris Paul, David West, and Ariza all going down). If I could describe Okafor in a word, it'd be intelligent. Both ends. It's very clear watching him play just how much effort he puts into preparation, and that certainly allows him to offset his height (6'9" without shoes)."

[Bickerstaff]

The Wiz would be a much more attractive free agent destination if they had max salary cap room.

I don't buy that. If there's an available player genuinely deserving of a max contract (which is very rare to begin with), lots of teams will find a way to clear space. And no big time free agent's coming to the Wizards anyway. Until they prove otherwise, the franchise is considered a joke. So the best the Wizards could really do is sign a couple mid-level guys who were passed over by more storied organizations, to contracts that would ultimately cost more than 2 years of Okafor and Ariza. Realistically, their best bet of improving via cap space would have been BOYD moves next season (giving EG benefit of the doubt for checking around for such opportunities in this draft before trading Rashard, and assuming they wouldn't end up blowing it all on a couple Ilyasovas). Which would have been nice, though barely more of a sure thing than being able to lure Eric Gordon to DC for anywhere close to a reasonable price.

Meanwhile, the Wizards RIGHT NOW have the potential to be an excellent defensive team, which is crazy to even think about after all these years. Hell, maybe they won't even need anyone who can shoot. Either way, I really agree with Wages of Wins about the timing: they have two years to surround Wall with as much talent as they can, not so much to win now, but to see how high you can get him to take his game before deciding if you want to spend $100M to continue building the team around him. I can't speak to whether they're going after the right sort of players, but there's a clear philosophy behind who they are acquiring. Even on nights that they can't find the hoop, this is going to be a tough team to play.

[Shorty]

Thanks to all for a fascinating, fast-moving thread. Some of the debate focuses on what value Okafor and Ariza add to the team in the short term--I have seen too little of those players to weigh in on that.

But I liked the global perspective of the sbnation article, that the team is in a holding pattern. The price for players may decrease significantly when the lux tax penalties kick in, and the Wizards have positioned themselves to minimize their long-term commitments at that point, especially if you assume that Nene can be moved, if need be. Alternatively, Okafor's and Ariza's contracts might be worth relatively more in trades next year than if they hypothetically expired this year. Either way, the team will have a better idea of the value of the young players and the direction to take with them. Pure cap space would be better, of course, but I'm guessing that was a non-starter at this point.

On an unrelated note, Ariza was quoted in the Post this morning praising Wall's improved J.

[BarnabyJones]

“I think he has unbelievable talent,” Ariza said of Wall. “I watched him play last year and then got to play with him a little in the summertime. I can’t believe that someone can move that fast with the basketball. That explosiveness, and from what I’ve seen, he’s also been knocking down his shots. He’s been working, I’ve noticed that. His jumper is looking really, really, really good, for those who haven’t seen him lately.”

[rockymac52]

I understand the notion that Okafor is a bit redundant with the bigs we already had. But I don't think it's completely true. We needed better rebounders. Okafor is an excellent rebounder. He also will allow Nene to play more PF, which I believe he's a slightly better fit than he is at C.

Okafor is also an incredibly intelligent and well-spoken individual, especially by the NBA's standards. He seems to be a very hard worker and a capable leader. Those types of traits alone aren't that special, but when you combine them with legitimate talent, then they're quite valuable. I like the culture we're building. Especially considering what we went through with the knuckleheads for the last decade it seems.

I also like it from a depth standpoint. Injuries happen. And injuries seem to happen more often to the Wizards (I don't actually believe this is the case, or at least that it's more than a coincidence and some bad luck, but many of you guys seem to). Let's assume Blatche is amnestied or traded. We have Okafor, Nene, Booker, Seraphin, and Vesely in the front court. If we didn't acquire Okafor, we'd have a solid 4 man rotation, but when one of them goes down with an injury (it's inevitable that it'll happen at least somewhat at some point during the NBA season). Now 5 quality players might seem like a logjam of sorts, but when an injury happens, we'll be fine. More than fine. I like that. I also like that our front court's new depth will make future trades easier to complete. We have so much flexibility because of our depth. Not only do we have 5 players in the front court alone who are decent assets in a potential trade, but we could now very easily pull off a trade that sends 1 of our big men for 1 wing, straight up (or close to it, I guess).

We had good big men already. Now our big men are slightly better. We didn't have good wings before. now our wings are sliiiiightly better, but still a big weakness. Let's say we still want to acquire another decent wing. If another team has a surplus of wings and a lack of big men, guess who makes a great trade partner all of a sudden?

Before we could maybe traded somebody like Booker for a decent wing (in theory). But if we did that then we'd only have 3 decent big men in our rotation. But now we could do that same move and still have 4 decent big men in our rotation.

This trade isn't a blockbuster by any means, and in some respects it's a little disappointing as a fan, but I genuinely think it will greatly improve our team and was a move that we will come to value.

[DallasShalDune]

Another good read on the direction of our franchise and risks:

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... um=twitter

[FAH1223]

Another good read on the direction of our franchise and risks:

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... um=twitter

with our luck, John Wall will have the reaction you have on your avatar when this collapses on Ernie

we're in a bad spot... if the team does well, Ernie stays... if the team is horrible, he will finally go

[Knighthonor]

Another good read on the direction of our franchise and risks:

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... um=twitter

What's going to stop John Wall from leaving to another team?

[tontoz]

Using the Hornets record as a reason they won't help is not a legit reason. If the Lakers got John Wall this offseason, would they say "why would we want him, he was on a 20-win team last season". .

How about this. Getting mediocre players from a crap team that don't address the team needs isn't going to help. Does that work for you?

Comparing Wall to these two is ridiculous. These guys have been in the league since 2004. Wall is a second year player and there is every reason to believe that he will improve from where he is now.

The Hornets were a 49 win team before Okafor got there. In the two full seasons after, when Okafor was completely healthy, they won 37 and 46 games. If he didn't add wins for them why would we believe he will add a significant number of wins here?

[w dumseld]

Indu, no timeout. Your point was that one characteristic Huawei and the Wiz have in common is that they both want to improve general perception of their brand before making the next step. Fair point. If you haven't already, you should read a book called the Talent Code. Easy read. You could knock it out on a long flight. But very very interesting

When I was a kid, I used to read the peanuts comic and I could never figure out why Charlie Brown wouldn't learn and would try and kick the football only to have Lucy pull the ball away and then fall flat on his back. As a Bullets/Wiz fan I now know what it means. Over the past 30 seasons, only one team has failed to win 47 or more games in any season. That kind of failure can't be coincidental. It requires consistently poor decision making. So this is just another one of those bad decisions and we've got 70 pages of posts on it, but really, a picture of Lucy pulling the ball from Charlie Brown would've summed it up.

As a distraction and a great illustration of executing a winning strategy the following link is the infamous Down Goes Frazier fight. The next link is the Ali Foreman fight. Just incredible what Ali accomplished. For the younger generation that may have never seen the fight in its entirety, its quite impressive, entertaining and instructive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVETXpz3 ... re=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXeIoHQahbQ

[willbcocks]

To me, the effectiveness of this trade boils down to how much trade value Okafor has, and what EG does with him. If we keep Okafor for front court depth, then this trade is an utter waste of resources. Okafor and Ariza will do very little to help this roster win more games because they are redundant.

But if you want to argue that Okafor, as a respectable NBA big man on a short contract, has more value than Rashard Lewis' super expiring contract, then maybe there is a point to be made there. If EG turns around an capitalizes on that value by trading him for a player that helps our roster, then I'll be happy.

It's not the premise of trading Lewis for veterans that bothers me. It's that EG traded him for these veterans.

Nate: this is now my conclusion. The most important thing is how much value do these specific veterans and their contracts have vs pure cap space. If Okafor is like Kip was and can net us positive value, it's not a downgrade from cap space.

The other important point is how much Okafor can bring to the team as a veteran compared to Nene. If this enables us to move Nene but still have the veteran big we want, downgrading the commitment from 4 to 2 years and getting (what i imagine) is good value back, then I'll be comfortable with the FO's post-trade direction. If Nene can't net value back and Okafor represents a huge dropoff (or worse, is injured), it becomes a big problem.

I don't see how you see Ariza as redundant. We had zero competent wings. He is one--even if overpaid.

[FAH1223]

I think Okafor has plenty of trade value, if he plays well the first half of the season or the full season... we can either net something for him at the deadline or a year from now next draft to teams that are starving for interior defense and rebounding.

HOWEVER, we have Ernie who puts all his eggs in one basket... and when those eggs break, everything is screwed.

[willbcocks]

I think Okafor has plenty of trade value, if he plays well the first half of the season or the full season... we can either net something for him at the deadline or a year from now next draft to teams that are starving for interior defense and rebounding.

HOWEVER, we have Ernie who puts all his eggs in one basket... and when those eggs break, everything is screwed.

It seems like a catch-22 though--he needs minutes to boost his trade value, but if he gets 30 mpg, our young guys will be glued to the bench.

[nate33]

Another good read on the direction of our franchise and risks:

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... um=twitter

What's going to stop John Wall from leaving to another team?

Money.