Arenas for Vince or dump Arenas for cap space?

[Ruzious]

I'm not quite sure Stan Van Gundy would choose loyal as a word to describe Pat Riley.

[AceDegenerate]

I'm not quite sure Stan Van Gundy would choose loyal as a word to describe Pat Riley.

Yet, I think that Jeff would. Isn't that something?

I wonder if anybody would have ever even heard of any Van Gundy had it not been for Riley?

[LyricalRico]

Fear the beard!

[Ruzious]

I'm not quite sure Stan Van Gundy would choose loyal as a word to describe Pat Riley.

Yet, I think that Jeff would. Isn't that something?

I wonder if anybody would have ever even heard of any Van Gundy had it not been for Riley?

Just wondering - what did Riley do for JVG?

[AceDegenerate]

I'm not quite sure Stan Van Gundy would choose loyal as a word to describe Pat Riley.

Yet, I think that Jeff would. Isn't that something?

I wonder if anybody would have ever even heard of any Van Gundy had it not been for Riley?

Just wondering - what did Riley do for JVG?

“Why would I ever speak an ill word of Pat Riley? I wouldn’t be standing here talking to you today if it wasn’t for Pat Riley. My life, especially my professional life, is incredible because of what Pat Riley did for me. I was a fired college coach who was getting turned down for interviews at Division II schools. “Pat Riley rescued me from that and gave me a chance to come to the NBA. He then moved me up his staff and gave me a chance to be a head coach. There’s nothing I’ve learned in the NBA that I didn’t learn from Pat Riley or my brother [Jeff].”

As for Jeff, he only even began to be recognized during Pat Riley's tenure with the Knicks.

[Ruzious]

Yet, I think that Jeff would. Isn't that something?

I wonder if anybody would have ever even heard of any Van Gundy had it not been for Riley?

Just wondering - what did Riley do for JVG?

“Why would I ever speak an ill word of Pat Riley? I wouldn’t be standing here talking to you today if it wasn’t for Pat Riley. My life, especially my professional life, is incredible because of what Pat Riley did for me. I was a fired college coach who was getting turned down for interviews at Division II schools. “Pat Riley rescued me from that and gave me a chance to come to the NBA. He then moved me up his staff and gave me a chance to be a head coach. There’s nothing I’ve learned in the NBA that I didn’t learn from Pat Riley or my brother [Jeff].”

As for Jeff, he only even began to be recognized during Pat Riley's tenure with the Knicks.

That quote is Stan being loyal to Riley - for good reason. But Riley did royally screw him in Miami. Maybe you feel he was entitled to screw him because he gave him his shot and helped make him famous, but... that ain't loyalty where I come from.

[Hoopalotta]

To me, the whole question just comes down to how quickly they're trying to get going on actually competing with Gil making more and more sense the shorter the window. With the Blatche deal done, the absolute best case 'keep Gil' scenario would be to ink Dwight Howard in 2012 while signing and trading McGee for draft picks (and i say that as a definite McGee backer). If we really do have a max slot in 2012 available even with Gil, that does change things up. And despite all the talk about yon tortoise, it was reported that we placed a call about Melo, so I don't think anything is ironclad as of now.

But I don't see the payoff with Gil and an extremely slow draft centric rebuild unless the young bigs REALLY vault forward into the upper tier (well, I guess that would be more internal development driven than draft centric anyway).

A max contract really should be fitting in with some sort of an overall plan if your stated goal is a champagne-ship. whether or not a player can "live up to that dollar figure" is less important than how they mesh with the overall strategy. For example, Garnett couldn't live up to his contract last year, but of course the Celtics would never have played in the finals without him so that's an easy "yes, please" for the Celtics.

It remains to be seen for us how this is all going to work out and what sort of plan we're trying to pull off. I could think of scenarios both ways that made a lot of sense and then others that were counter productive.

[Dat2U]

But I don't see the payoff with Gil and an extremely slow draft centric rebuild unless the young bigs REALLY vault forward into the upper tier (well, I guess that would be more internal development driven than draft centric anyway).

I don't think the process is really clear, other than to continue building with our young talent & see what happens. Regarding th slow draft centric strategy, I think even Leonsis knows, you can't replicate a hockey strategy in basketball. Because in hockey, even the best player in the world can't play more than a 3rd of a game at most. So depth in hockey is much more of an issue than it is in basketball. Miami can add 3 major pieces, fill in the gaps with vets willing to take a discount and make a run from that.

I also think landing Wall changed the course slightly. Of course landing another #1 would be nice but the odds are against that. Plus its not like the cupboard was totally bare. Having two young & very talented bigs that have already experienced a learning curve puts us ahead of a typical rebuild schedule.

You could argue, with a bit of development and a year or two of patience, were one major player away from truly challenging in the East.

You could also argue that we'll stink to high hell & be in position for a high lottery pick next year, Gil or not.

The bottom line is that our path isn't really known yet because there are so many questions. We have to kinda let things play out this year at first. I know that sounds like such a wishy washy answer but like Andray Blatche said 'Rome wasn't built in a day'. I'm sure the blueprints weren't drawn in a day either.

[Hoopalotta]

I think a certain degree of wishy washyness is what makes the most sense for at least the next few months. We might be the most difficult prediction of any team in the NBA as we basically have no track record with this squad.

On the trades and transactions board, there is (or was?) a stickied thread of team needs, but I'm thinking with us it's a dedicated assessment period. I did think we were looking at quick pressure to turn on a dime from there and get pretty decisive by next offseason, but as noted, the potential for so much cap space in 2012 changes things.

About the only thing we know right now is that Yi's going to get a gaggle of all star votes. Oh, and someone said that Booker was going to be amongst the best perimeter defenders in the league from jump, so we have that too.

[Nyce_1]

just curious, how has Gil looked during TC and would anyone still trade him for Vince around Feb?

[AceDegenerate]

just curious, how has Gil looked during TC and would anyone still trade him for Vince around Feb?

[doclinkin]

^^^^ laughing my ass off at the pic...

[dobrojim]

luv the pix too

but to be polite and answer the question

I wouldn't have done it before when there may have been
a question about Gil's health, phys or mental. I certainly
wouldn't do it now. I've always liked Gil. I've never bought
into the Vinsanity junk. That is my purely subjective opinion.

[DCZards]

I have to agree with those who say, while this is no longer "Arena's team," he is still probably the Wizards best player and the go-to guy in key situations.

W all have high hopes for Wall and love his potential. I know I do! But let's not forget JW is still an inexperienced kid just two years removed from high school. He'll have to grow into his role as the Wizards best player...something that I'm sure he will do--and quickly. However, right now, the Zards, in many ways, is still Arenas' team. The Zards on-court success will depend more on Arenas than Wall, imo, at least for the short term.

Yes, Wall has been given the keys to the Wizards car and future, and JW is clearly in the driver's seat. But there will be many a night this season when all of us will be glad that Agent Zero is riding shotgun. (No pun intended.)

[AceDegenerate]

Suppose I will throw this here for the haters.

Agent Smiley aka Gilbert Arenas was being Gilbert, aggressive and making his crazy layups. He did something that the Old Gilbert never did. He played DEFENSE! He was actually hustling and was on his man. He was covering Hinerich, Hudson, and Wall most of the practice. I would love to see Gilbert stick someone like a Nick Young because he will be covering bigger shooting guards in the league. Gilbert did limp off as he ran into JaVale McGee apparently. He went into the training room and came back out but did not participate in the final drills after scrimmage. He was not limping when he came back out, and even Coach Flip Saunders said that he is fine. Great news!

[Shanghai Kid]

There is always way too much talk about it being Wall's team or Gilbert's team or anybody's team. That's much more of a cliched fantasy than any kind of tangible 'role'. Wall will be the leader of the team, but to break it down it doesn't mean he's automatically going to be the team's best player. Jamison was always the team leader even though it was established that Gilbert was the go-to guy and the leading scorer.

Wall may be destined to be a great point guard, and Gilbert continuing to be the go to guy is in no way going to hurt Wall's role as the leader and play-maker of the team.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Foremost, I want to see Gil return to as close to 2006-2007 form. He was an all star for the third straight year and made 2nd team all NBA that season. I'd like to see Gilbert play as effectively as he did then. That level of play by Arenas would redeem him ih the eyes of the fans. It would make him a valuable asset to the Wizards. It would be great for Gilbert after these three or so tough years.

Subsequent to that happening, I would be fine seeing 95-100% Gilbert go to a championship contender, so long as the Wizards got value in return. Gilbert getting a legitimate shot at advancing deep in the playoffs with a good team this season and the next few would be a reward at this point in his career, IMO. Orlando seems like a spot that makes sense. He's much better than Jameer Nelson or Chris Duhon. That team thrives on JJ Redick's threes. Carter's contract expires. The Magic would be the place for Gil, most likely. I could also see Gil going to Dallas (Kidd, Terry, Marion, and or Chandler for some Gil deal--Dominique Jones is an outstanding talent. He, Gil, and Beaubois would be a changing of the guard for Dallas). Those are just a couple of many great teams that would want Arenas if he returns to form.

Otherwise, it could end up that Wall/Arenas becomes a better backcourt than Arenas/Hughes, and the Wizards decide to leave greatness alone. I would be fine with that, too. Regardless, I'm a Gilbert fan. I want him to do well. If he's healthy and playing well, everybody wins. Gil, the fans, and the Wizards.

[closg00]

I would wager a large sum of money that Gilbert opts-out after next year leaving 45 mil on the table to bolt for a contender.

[nate33]

I would wager a large sum of money that Gilbert opts-out after next year leaving 45 mil on the table to bolt for a contender.

There is virtually no chance of that happening.

First of all, he would have to opt out before the free agency period, which means he wouldn't have a way of knowing what offers are on the table (unless there's tampering). With his history, I doubt he'd be all that confident that the potential offers would be high.

Secondly, contending teams rarely have cap room. He'd probably have to take the MLE, which would be a MASSIVE pay cut.

A plausible scenario would be for Arenas to opt out and then negotiate an extended contract at a lower starting salary (and thus generate more cap room for the Wizards to use in 2012). I'm a little uncertain if that is permitted by the CBA though. According to Larry Coon:

Here's a summary of the differences between an option and an ETO:

•Options can occur only when one season remains on the contract, while ETOs can occur when two seasons remain if the contract is for six seasons.
•Options can be included in any multiyear contract, but ETOs are allowed only with five or six year contracts.
•Options can be held by the player or the team, but ETOs are always held by the player (i.e., there's no such thing as a team Early Termination Option).
•Option years may not have a lower salary than the previous season. ETOs have no such restriction.
•A contract with a player option can be extended when the option is not exercised. A contract with an ETO may not be extended if the ETO is exercised.
•When determining the amount of a trade bonus (see question number 86), option years are not counted as part of the remaining value of the contract, but years following an ETO are counted.

I'm not sure how that applies. Is it techinically considered an "extension" if Arenas exercises his ETO and then the Wizards sign him to a brand new contract?

[Shanghai Kid]

I don't know if Gil can get back to 06-07 form, his swagger level was almost historical during that season. Dropping 60 on Kobe on the road is something that has never been done and maybe no other player will do that again. On the same tip, celebrating a game winning shot before it goes in is almost the highest level of self confidence a ball player can have.

But Gilbert can become a better player than 06-07 if he learns to play reasonably acceptable defense while still being a good scorer. If Gilbert was a great defensive player during 05-07, he may have been considered to be on the Dwayne Wade level. He was already a top 10 player in 06-07 despite not playing defense.

So what Gilbert may have lost in explosiveness, he can make up for it with better defense and playing smarter. And no longer can people give him the stigma as shoot-first PG as he's now a shooting guard.