Political Roundtable Part XVII

[FAH1223]

Watch on YouTube

[closg00]

Listening to C-Span this morning, sure-enough, talk-show rubes were parroting "Release the Memo" and all of it's talking points. These people are easily led around by the nose.

[cammac]

The majority of Republicans and Democrats in the Senate have a deal to open the government again. If sent to the House again there are enough votes for the legislation to pass. What is holding it up is 20% of the hardliners in both houses. Plus the obvious culprit the President of the USA who missed blowing out his candles at a party.

[dckingsfan]

That's just not true. There's a bipartisan deal that would pass the Senate. It addresses all the major immigration issues. Trump simply torpedoed the deal because he would rather appease hardliners than make a deal. It's laughable that the party that has done everything to appease Trump and cower to him wouldn't fall in line on an immigration deal. If anyone truly believes that they haven't been paying attention for the past year

I haven't seen the framework on that deal - have a link?

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/18/politics/immigration-shutdown-talks/index.html

First, thanks for the link - I hadn't seen this article. But, I would hardly call this bi-partisan:

the bill has already been rejected by the President and Republican leadership

It doesn't seem to address familial or birthright citizenship. It is a DACA patch. It is exactly what the Rs don't want to pass without the other options addressed. They are using the government shutdown to shove it through (which is understandable, this is politics after all).

But it probably won't pass the house or get vetoed - but this is weird politics...
https://nypost.com/2018/01/21/trump-urges-gop-to-use-nuclear-option-during-government-shutdown/

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/21/politics/shutdown-last-longer-analysis/index.html

[cammac]

I'm against big money coming into the electoral process on either side. It has become so corrupt that a small % of voters less than 1/10th of 1% can tip a election. Then that rump can control the legislation that benefits them and not the common good. A perfect example is the contributions that Ryan got from the Koch Brothers after the new tax laws were passed.

Koch Industries, one of the largest private corporations in the nation, operates refineries and manufactures a variety of products. The new tax law — which slices corporate tax rates from 35 percent to 21 percent, slashes estate taxes and includes a special deduction for oil and gas investors — is expected to save the Koch brothers and their businesses billions of dollars in taxes.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/koch-paysout-to-ryan-after-taxlaw_us_5a63ce41e4b0dc592a09697c

This should be completely unacceptable in a country that values Democracy.

[dckingsfan]

I'm against big money coming into the electoral process on either side. It has become so corrupt that a small % of voters less than 1/10th of 1% can tip a election. Then that rump can control the legislation that benefits them and not the common good. A perfect example is the contributions that Ryan got from the Koch Brothers after the new tax laws were passed.

Koch Industries, one of the largest private corporations in the nation, operates refineries and manufactures a variety of products. The new tax law — which slices corporate tax rates from 35 percent to 21 percent, slashes estate taxes and includes a special deduction for oil and gas investors — is expected to save the Koch brothers and their businesses billions of dollars in taxes.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/koch-paysout-to-ryan-after-taxlaw_us_5a63ce41e4b0dc592a09697c

This should be completely unacceptable in a country that values Democracy.

Cammac - you believe our corporate tax rate was too high. The Koch brothers believed that too... what is so nefarious about their lobbying for such.

(Estate taxes are a different matter - but they don't really matter so long as we have the charitable carveout in place)

[cammac]

I'm against big money coming into the electoral process on either side. It has become so corrupt that a small % of voters less than 1/10th of 1% can tip a election. Then that rump can control the legislation that benefits them and not the common good. A perfect example is the contributions that Ryan got from the Koch Brothers after the new tax laws were passed.

Koch Industries, one of the largest private corporations in the nation, operates refineries and manufactures a variety of products. The new tax law — which slices corporate tax rates from 35 percent to 21 percent, slashes estate taxes and includes a special deduction for oil and gas investors — is expected to save the Koch brothers and their businesses billions of dollars in taxes.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/koch-paysout-to-ryan-after-taxlaw_us_5a63ce41e4b0dc592a09697c

You are correct and incorrect!
Yes I haven't a problem with lower corporate tax rates where I do have a problem is that the corporate loopholes were not closed. Since Koch Industries is a Private Company it is impossible to know what there true tax rate was before the new taxes.
http://fortune.com/2016/10/06/fortune-500-tax-haven/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2017/04/18/what-americas-biggest-companies-pay-in-taxes/#66080c7b2f51
This should be completely unacceptable in a country that values Democracy.

Cammac - you believe our corporate tax rate was too high. The Koch brothers believed that too... what is so nefarious about their lobbying for such.

(Estate taxes are a different matter - but they don't really matter so long as we have the charitable carveout in place)

[dckingsfan]

But those loopholes weren't create exclusively from the Rs. And both the Rs and Ds want to keep their loopholes. The problem is high tax rates with loopholes then allow Ds to drive social programs. And high tax rates with loop holes allow Rs to reward their donor base.

Here is an example of the former:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/18/business/economy/tax-housing.html

You posted an example of the later.

[FAH1223]

Read on Twitter

[cammac]

But those loopholes weren't create exclusively from the Rs. And both the Rs and Ds want to keep their loopholes. The problem is high tax rates with loopholes then allow Ds to drive social programs. And high tax rates with loop holes allow Rs to reward their donor base.

Here is an example of the former:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/18/business/economy/tax-housing.html

You posted an example of the later.

Where we disagree for both parties is the donor class which should be eliminated.
It allows populous movements to be well funded like Bernie Sanders and Howard Dean runs to be Democratic Presidents. It allows a politician to be more in touch with the electorate. That would also include a rich candidate pouring personal funds into a run for any office.

[Pointgod]

What do you guys think of this Trump campaign attack ad?

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/20/politics/trump-campaign-immigration-ad/index.html

[dckingsfan]

But those loopholes weren't create exclusively from the Rs. And both the Rs and Ds want to keep their loopholes. The problem is high tax rates with loopholes then allow Ds to drive social programs. And high tax rates with loop holes allow Rs to reward their donor base.

Here is an example of the former:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/18/business/economy/tax-housing.html

You posted an example of the later.

Where we disagree for both parties is the donor class which should be eliminated.
It allows populous movements to be well funded like Bernie Sanders and Howard Dean runs to be Democratic Presidents. It allows a politician to be more in touch with the electorate. That would also include a rich candidate pouring personal funds into a run for any office.

No disagreement on getting the donor class (business, billionaires and unions) out of the process. How do you propose to do that? Both parties are tied to their donors at the hip...

[dckingsfan]

What do you guys think of this Trump campaign attack ad?

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/20/politics/trump-campaign-immigration-ad/index.html

I see it as just politics... both sides are throwing mud right now and solidifying their base.

Trump maintains that he will not discuss DACA until the government reopens... I think he is taking this from the Obama playbook.

[cammac]

In all objectivity let me state up front I'm a atheist and have very little faith in the hierarchy of any region. That said in the basic concept of all religions does show a moral compass that people can lead productive lives. The unfortunate thing is religion has been molded into a us against them and ours is the only true path.

One particular group is the white Evangelist right in the USA and frankly what is more disgusting taking on the "White Jesus" image of Donald Trump.

It seems as if white evangelicals will overlook every moral inconsistency and offense if it means ushering in the Kingdom of White Jesus. They will overlook the assault and dehumanization of women if it means stopping legal access to abortion. They will overlook the belief in traditional family models if it mean having a president who will espouse and protect “traditional marriage” despite having been in multiple problematic marriages of his own. Trump allows white evangelicals to protect whiteness and its benefits and tenets because white supremacy and the values of evangelical Christianity are so intertwined.

Much like our colonial forefathers, evangelicals are committed to having a divine justification for the political values that they espouse. If they hate Muslims, so does Jesus. If they want to maintain patriarchy, so does Jesus. If they are homophobic and exclusive, it’s because Jesus ordained it. If they are afraid, it’s because they are persecuted. If they are anti-abortion but pro-war, it’s because White Jesus protects only the lives that they believe matter

It is notable that Trump has not been subtle about this lack of Christlikeness. His sexually problematic treatment of women, his exclusion of the “foreigner” or “stranger,” his siding with corporate wealth over caring for the poor, his ego-centered communication and hyperbolic-inflation of his popularity all are only heightened by his clear lack of knowledge and adherence to basic Christian values and practices. Yet, over the last year, white evangelicals’ worship of him has sanctimoniously upheld him in spite of this fact

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/opinion-miller-trump-jesus_us_5a5e3c51e4b0fcbc3a13f575?section=us_opinion

[stilldropin20]

Read on Twitter

Sent from my SM-N920T using RealGM mobile app

[FAH1223]

Read on Twitter

[cammac]

Credibility and reliability have never been strong suits of the Trump administration! The Nunes memo falls directly into this steaming bowl of excrement.

The FBI has not been permitted to see the memo Rep. Devin Nunes and his staff wrote about alleged abuses by the intelligence community, The Daily Beast has learned.

"The FBI has requested to receive a copy of the memo in order to evaluate the information and take appropriate steps if necessary. To date, the request has been declined,” said Andrew Ames, a spokesperson for the FBI.

This super triple double secret memo was created by one of the most deceitful Trump stooge in the House.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-fbi-hasnt-even-seen-devin-nunes-releasethememo-memo?ref=home

[closg00]

Credibility and reliability have never been strong suits of the Trump administration! The Nunes memo falls directly into this steaming bowl of excrement.

The FBI has not been permitted to see the memo Rep. Devin Nunes and his staff wrote about alleged abuses by the intelligence community, The Daily Beast has learned.

"The FBI has requested to receive a copy of the memo in order to evaluate the information and take appropriate steps if necessary. To date, the request has been declined,” said Andrew Ames, a spokesperson for the FBI.

This super triple double secret memo was created by one of the most deceitful Trump stooge in the House.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-fbi-hasnt-even-seen-devin-nunes-releasethememo-memo?ref=home

Nunes knows very-well that "The Memo" would collapse upon scrutiny. The document (written by Republicans) appears to be a propaganda document that re-writes the origins of Russian investigation timeline in a way most-favorable to Trump and the people being investigated. Nunes was very clever to include classified information in the Memo so Trump allies and their foot soldiers could waive it around like Joe McCarthy and his list of "Communists"

[Pointgod]

Credibility and reliability have never been strong suits of the Trump administration! The Nunes memo falls directly into this steaming bowl of excrement.

The FBI has not been permitted to see the memo Rep. Devin Nunes and his staff wrote about alleged abuses by the intelligence community, The Daily Beast has learned.

"The FBI has requested to receive a copy of the memo in order to evaluate the information and take appropriate steps if necessary. To date, the request has been declined,” said Andrew Ames, a spokesperson for the FBI.

This super triple double secret memo was created by one of the most deceitful Trump stooge in the House.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-fbi-hasnt-even-seen-devin-nunes-releasethememo-memo?ref=home

Nunes knows very-well that "The Memo" would collapse upon scrutiny. The document(written by Republicans) appears to a propaganda document that re-writes the origins of Russian investigation timeline in a way most-favorable to Trump, and the people being investigated. Nunes was very clever to include classified information in the Memo so Trump allies and their foot soldiers, could waive it around like Joe McCarthy and his list of "Communists"

Read on Twitter

[cammac]

Why is the USA government shut down?
It is because of CHIP & DACA both programs sabotaged by Donald Trump and the Republican Party. It effects 10 million plus youngsters and 700,000 Dreamers both have high approval ratings within the population. This is essentially a kidnapping hostage situation perpetrated on the youth by the Republican Party. Trump after cancelling DACA still hasn't given any information on where he stands?

McConnell is showing his ineptitude of being able to govern obviously he has a slim majority in the Senate but refuses to be bipartisan in any way. Major legislation is being held up by 4 or 5 radical Republican Senators and a confused and undisciplined White House. Obviously the Democrats will give concessions to reopen the government.

Again the Republican Party isn't able to present a comprehensive budget and is limping along on short term fixes. A Party who was totally disruptive during the majority of the Obama years has obviously not learned to govern and is still the party of NO!