Rui Hachimura 2.0

[gambitx777]

Looking for confirmation that the Zards offered Rui a $12 mil extension. Can someone here provide it … or is it based on rumor?

It was on a lowe post pod I think by windhurst . If it wasn't windy It was woj on a sports center clip.

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[Dat2U]

Happy for Rui. He'll definitely get paid this offseason.

[FAH1223]

Looking for confirmation that the Zards offered Rui a $12 mil extension. Can someone here provide it … or is it based on rumor?

Read on Twitter

[closg00]

I have trashed Tommy, but it would be fair to say that his pick has panned-out in the NBA.

[nate33]

Rui at $12-14M a year seems about right to me. Or at least it seemed right prior to the playoffs. If Rui turned down the deal, what else were the Wizards supposed to do but trade him?

[tleikheen]

Interestingly, Zach Lowe and Bobby Marks heard the #Wizards and Rui Hachimura were close on an extension in the $12M-$14M range. According to them, Rui didn’t take it. #NBA

In the NBA if you think your good and think you're being held back by the Coach ,the organization or both then you push for a trade which Rui asked for and got.

Wrong move ....nope not for Rui Hachimura who has burst onto the National scene in these playoffs . He and Austin Reaves have earned the big money and are going to get it .

Egg in the face for Wes Unseld Jr /Wizards who didnt know what they had when it was right in front of them.

[closg00]

Interestingly, Zach Lowe and Bobby Marks heard the #Wizards and Rui Hachimura were close on an extension in the $12M-$14M range. According to them, Rui didn’t take it. #NBA

In the NBA if you think your good and think you're being held back by the Coach ,the organization or both then you push for a trade which Rui asked for and got.

Wrong move ....nope not for Rui Hachimura who has burst onto the National scene in these playoffs . He and Austin Reaves have earned the big money and are going to get it .

Egg in the face for Wes Unseld Jr /Wizards who didnt know what they had when it was right in front of them.

I never understood what Wes was doing with Rui in the rotation, it was a criticism during the season so it's not Monday morning quarterbacking.

[NatP4]

The lakers are just shooting themselves in the foot playing Rui. He’s getting dominated on both ends. Hard to even watch right now.

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

The lakers are just shooting themselves in the foot playing Rui. He’s getting dominated on both ends. Hard to even watch right now.

His shooting during the playoffs was unsustainable, last night came back down to earth after being matched up with starters full time. Despite playing the 25 minutes a game the rest of his numbers outside of red hot shooting were just plain bad, can't impact a game unless he's scoring well, and even then, it's questionable of how big of an impact his scoring really makes. Lakers were 1-3 in games he scored 20 points in their postseason and 2-6 in games in which he scored in double figures.

[Kanyewest]

I believe Rui did have 12 points in the overtime play in game against the Timberwolves.

By the way, I wonder how different the narrative of the Lakers season would have been if they had lost the play in and proceeded to get swept by the Denver Nuggets in the first round.

[payitforward]

Since it seems that nothing can be done to get a very small group on this Board to stop referring to other people here as "Rui haters" -- & I have certainly tried many times -- I guess the next step will be to think up an ugly & demeaning name for that very small group.

That won't be difficult, but I'll hold off to see whether it recurs -- if the term "Rui-haters" (or even just "haters" in the context of Rui) doesn't get used again (& I do mean not even once), there'll be no need to strike back.

In the meantime, now that the Lakers' season is over, let's acknowledge once again what a terrific post season Rui had. Above all, his scoring was without any doubt a main reason that LA got to the Western Conference finals. Obviously, he wasn't alone -- Anthony Davis deserves a lot of credit too, & so does Austin Reaves, & obviously so does Lebron, not to mention Darvin Ham -- but Rui was a big contributor to the team's unanticipated playoff success. & that run of terrific play will absolutely mean that he'll get to show whether he's established himself at a new level next season. I hope he has!

But, of course that is not to say that on his season as a whole or on his career as a whole he's been a good player. In fact, the back and forth about him made me wonder how he was viewed by some well-known analytics metrics.

For example, some days ago nate posted the epm analytic ratings of 497 NBA players this year -- from the very best down to the worst.

Whatever credence one gives epm, certainly the top 10 make sense: Jokic, Embiid, Lillard, Butler, Kawhi, Luka, Curry, Giannis & Durant. The names in the bottom 10 aren't surprising either: Leandro Bolmaro, Simone Fontecchio, Justin Minaya, Buddy Boeheim, Davon Reed, Trent Forrest, Johnny Zuzang, Ish Smith, Blake Wesley, & Thanassis Antetokounmpo.

Does anybody wonder where Rui is on that list? It's not that easy to search the list, unfortunately, but it shouldn't be hard to find him all the same.

Here's the list -- https://dunksandthrees.com/epm. Anyone want to take a minute & locate where Rui stands according to epm?

For another perspective, here's the basketball reference advanced stats page: https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2023_advanced.html

You can sort by win shares per 48 minutes (WS/48), for example, to see where Rui stands among the 539 guys who played at least some NBA minutes last season.

Or if you prefer, you can also sort by VORP (Value Over Replacement Player). Where does Rui rank, I wonder, when you sort it that way?

Or by BPM (box plus minus)? How high or low is Rui on that list for this season?

For another analytics source, try https://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players?sort=per48_wins_produced&direction=desc&minimum=true in order to see where WP48 places him on the many screenfuls of names from the top to bottom (the list only includes guys who played 480 or more minutes)

How about John Hollinger's PER metric? Where does Rui rate among the 367 players who posted 500 minutes or more this year -- the list starts here: http://www.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics & extends for @7.3 screens of names.

How about "Real Plus Minus?" Where does Rui's 2022-23 season place him on that list -- here's where to look: http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm. Where does Rui rank on that list of 525 players?

So, that's epm, WS/48, VORP, BPM, WP48, PER & RPM. Have I missed one or more? Probably -- feel free to look at others. All information is useful.

Where do those analytical systems say that Rui ranks among NBA players based on the 2022-23 season?

[payitforward]

...(Rui's) shooting during the playoffs was unsustainable...

That's unfair. It's not a sensible criticism of any NBA forward to say that he can't sustain a TS% over 70%.
You're just saying he can't do what no one else can do either. So what?

...the rest of his numbers outside of red hot shooting were just plain bad, can't impact a game unless he's scoring well, and even then, it's questionable of how big of an impact his scoring really makes....

That too is unfair.
Give credit to Rui or any other player for what he accomplishes.

[Endless Loop]

Where do those analytical systems say that Rui ranks among NBA players based on the 2022-23 season?

Rui's advanced stats for this year's playoffs are well above average.

WS is #20
OWS #19
DWS #32
VORP #24
TS% #7
WS/48 #23

All out of 216 players, none of whom were Wizards.

[AFM]

EPM has Rui at #310, next to Dyson Daniels, Benedict Mathurin, etc. Corey Kispert is ranked 293 for reference.

[dckingsfan]

Interestingly, Zach Lowe and Bobby Marks heard the #Wizards and Rui Hachimura were close on an extension in the $12M-$14M range. According to them, Rui didn’t take it. #NBA

In the NBA if you think your good and think you're being held back by the Coach ,the organization or both then you push for a trade which Rui asked for and got.

Wrong move ....nope not for Rui Hachimura who has burst onto the National scene in these playoffs . He and Austin Reaves have earned the big money and are going to get it .

Egg in the face for Wes Unseld Jr /Wizards who didnt know what they had when it was right in front of them.

Agreed with the first part. Not so much for the second... Wes Unseld didn't trade Rui.

And the "egg on face" for Tommy was not trading him earlier and getting assets. But the mental health "thing" probably made that difficult.

[payitforward]

Where do those analytical systems say that Rui ranks among NBA players based on the 2022-23 season?

Rui's advanced stats for this year's playoffs are well above average.

WS is #20
OWS #19
DWS #32
VORP #24
TS% #7
WS/48 #23

All out of 216 players, none of whom were Wizards.

Good info. & I'd agree that those advanced stats for the playoffs are convincing evidence that he played well in the playoffs.

Where do those same advanced stats rank for the whole season?
Wouldn't that be useful info too? Wouldn't they provide convincing evidence of how well or badly he played in the regular season? Were those advanced stats also "well above average?" Or, more to the point -- how do they compare to "average?" Are they better?

Or regular season minutes with the Lakers? Or any previous season? Or his career?
Same questions as above.

Any answers?

[payitforward]

EPM has Rui at #310, next to Dyson Daniels, Benedict Mathurin, etc. Corey Kispert is ranked 293 for reference.

Good for you for looking that up.
So epm has Rui Hachimura as the 310th best player of the 497 they ranked.

Ok... I'll look up WS/48. Hold on....

Out of the 539 players listed, Rui is #359 in Win Shares per 48 minutes.
To continue the Kispert reference -- he's #263 in Win Shares per 48 minutes. A pretty big difference....
Note that Kristaps Porzingis is #43 in WS/48.

Hmmm... I might as well sort the page for VORP too.

Rui's at 405 of 539 in VORP.
How about Kispert? Hmmm, interesting! Much bigger difference based on VORP: Kispert is at 212.
Oh, and Porzingis is #22.

Goes to show you that different analytical points of view rank players somewhat differently. Probably no single one should be thought of as definitive.

Let's try a 3d advanced stat to see whether the two guys are closer or farther apart (& where they stand, obviously). How about BPM (Box Plus Minus)?

Rui is #339 of 539
Corey Kispert is #285 -- so from the perspective of BPM they're closer.
Meanwhile, KP is #25

[AFM]

Clearly we need an advanced stat to summarize other advanced stats. I will call it YOASS Ye Old Advanced Stat Summarizer

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

...(Rui's) shooting during the playoffs was unsustainable...

That's unfair. It's not a sensible criticism of any NBA forward to say that he can't sustain a TS% over 70%.
You're just saying he can't do what no one else can do either. So what?

...the rest of his numbers outside of red hot shooting were just plain bad, can't impact a game unless he's scoring well, and even then, it's questionable of how big of an impact his scoring really makes....

That too is unfair.
Give credit to Rui or any other player for what he accomplishes.

I wasn't criticizing him for not being able sustain shooting at that clip, as you pointed to, that would be unrealistic. What I am getting at is if people are going to elevate him to be some player that he's not based on a undeniably torrid shooting stretch during the Lakers postseason run, then it's fair to counter that they are glossing over other aspects of his game and focusing narrowly about the things that boost their opinions/arguments.

[payitforward]

...(Rui's) shooting during the playoffs was unsustainable...

That's unfair. It's not a sensible criticism of any NBA forward to say that he can't sustain a TS% over 70%.
You're just saying he can't do what no one else can do either. So what?

...the rest of his numbers outside of red hot shooting were just plain bad, can't impact a game unless he's scoring well, and even then, it's questionable of how big of an impact his scoring really makes....

That too is unfair.
Give credit to Rui or any other player for what he accomplishes.

I wasn't criticizing him for not being able sustain shooting at that clip, as you pointed to, that would be unrealistic. What I am getting at is if people are going to elevate him to be some player that he's not based on a undeniably torrid shooting stretch during the Lakers postseason run, then it's fair to counter that they are glossing over other aspects of his game and focusing narrowly about the things that boost their opinions/arguments.

Fair enough.

In any case, who Rui is as a player must be conveyed by his whole history not 16 playoff games. Overall, in his first 4 seasons, he hasn't been particularly good.

OTOH, in his 738 regular season minutes with the Lakers he was better than he'd been with us, & obviously he shot the ball great in the post-season. So let's see how much of that he can take with him into next season. A lot, I hope!