Discuss Ernie Grunfeld's GM skills here (Part 2)

[payitforward]

Ernie has to get points for getting Markieff Morris. Not a super star but definitely the best powerforward we have had since webber and wallace.

Huh? No. Not even close.

Without bothering to look at numbers for every PF since Webber/Wallace, it's obvious that only two things matter: how good is the player? & how good was the trade itself?

To start with the 2d of those, we gave Phoenix a lottery pick in Round 1 for a guy they had been trying unsuccessfully to trade all season. It was a ridiculous over-pay -- especially since he was supposed to give us a "jolt" that would get us into the playoffs. He didn't give us any kind of jolt, & we didn't get into the playoffs.

Which brings us to the ultimate question: how good is Markieff? Answer -- not very good at all. Last year (& pretty much every year of his now 6-year career), Kieff was a below average efficiency scorer, a below average defensive rebounder, a below average offensive rebounder, slightly below average in assists, slightly above average in steals, below average in shots blocked, average in turnovers, & commited fouls at an above average rate.

All of those are in comparison to the average of all PFs in the league -- not starters, but every last guy who played any minutes at the 4 last year.

Markieff seems to be a good guy & a good teammate. He seems to be happy in DC & happy on the Wizards. I've got nothing against the guy. As a player, however, not so much.

If we'd acquired -- to take a semi-random stab -- Ersan Ilyasova instead, we'd have been better off these last years, we'd be paying a little less, & we'd have an expiring salary who might be tradable this year. Nor would Ilyasova have cost us a lottery pick. It's not that I know the guy would have been available -- though he's been traded seemingly ever 6 months the last couple of years! -- it's just an example.

In all, no, Ernie gets no points for wasting a lottery pick on Markieff Morris.

[WizarDynasty]

I don't think a starting caliber starting forward was available at the pick we gave phoenix.

[closg00]

Yup, Ernie (should never play poker) Grunfeld, got punked again and was taken advantage of his predilection to panic during the off-season. PHX had been trying to trade Keef w/o any success, salaries alone probably could have gotten it done.

[payitforward]

I don't think a starting caliber starting forward was available at the pick we gave phoenix.

I'm sure you don't. Then again, Markieff Morris is not "a starting caliber... forward," so that even if you were right about the draft your point would be irrelevant.

The question to ask is what's the best way to assemble the assets that optimize the team over the next few years. Trading a lottery pick for a journeyman isn't on the list.

In the run-up to that draft you'll find that I recommended trading down & had a scheme that, had it been executed, could have gotten us the following 3 guys: Brice Johnson, Ivica Zubic, & Malcolm Brogden. You'll also find that I wanted us to buy a high-ish R2 pick & beat Golden State to Patrick McCaw or even buy a low R2 pick and get Kay Felder or Abdel Nader.

Instead of building both the bench & the team's future w/ young talent, we made a series of asinine moves that got us Nicholson, Burke, McCullough, Scott, Meeks, Frazier, Thornton, etc., aside from Morris, & cost us even more R1 & R2 picks along the way!!

So, no, Ernie gets no credit for the Morris trade. His only good moves in the last 2 years have been to sign the undrafted Sheldon McClellan & to sign Donald Sloan just now. If you want to make it 2-plus years, you can include his drafting Oubre.

Note that Sloan is a 1-year vet minimum guy I believe, which means that he'll have very limited positive impact. Signing guys like him, Meeks, & Scott doesn't help build the team.

[payitforward]

Yup, Ernie (should never play poker) Grunfeld, got punked again and was taken advantage of his predilection to panic during the off-season. PHX had been trying to trade Keef w/o any success, salaries alone probably could have gotten it done.

Better yet, given Phoenix's desperation, I think they could have gotten a high R2 pick out of Phoenix along w/ Morris for... next to nothing. In 2016, the Suns' R2 pick would have gotten us one of Malcolm Brogden, Tyler Ullis or Patrick McCaw. If it had been the 2017 pick, the list of high-value prospects was even longer.

[CobraCommander]

Erine, notice how OKC traded trash for talent? I need you to go get Boogie before the season starts for Mahimi and and Martell Webster-

[closg00]

Watch on YouTube

Nah, the Wizards don't need a 19 y/o like this kid. Watch a little of our 22nd pick guys, he only gotten better as the pre-season progressed...he's even got a J.

[queridiculo]

Kuzma, Swanigan, Allen, any guy with a pulse on a 4 year deal would have been better than that stupid Nets trade.

Of the course the real problem was signing Nicholson to that ridiculous deal in the first place. Grunfeld is the worst.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I'll go on a limb and say it wouldn't shock me at all if Allen turns into a better C than any of Gortat, Mahinmi, or Smith.

Kuzma is going to be an All-Star someday.

You can tell that Swanigan is a solid rotational player already.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Watch on YouTube

Nah, the Wizards don't need a 19 y/o like this kid. Watch a little of our 22nd pick guys, he only gotten better as the pre-season progressed...he's even got a J.

Yeah he's going to be really really good.

Whoever Ernie gave them for that #22 pick would likely be good by Wizards luck. But Jarett Allen looks to be very agile, very skilled. He's a shot-blocker, a rebounder, and a scorer. Only 19 years old...

Geez.



Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

[queridiculo]

I'll go on a limb and say it wouldn't shock me at all if Allen turns into a better C than any of Gortat, Mahinmi, or Smith.

Kuzma is going to be an All-Star someday.

You can tell that Swanigan is a solid rotational player already.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using RealGM mobile app

In two years neither Gortat nor Mahinmi are likely on the team, so he'd be better by default

Under Grunfeld this organization has always treated the draft as an after thought.

The Wizards like to portray themselves as these team building savants that built this iteration of the Wizards through the draft but the honest to God truth is that there was a true championship contender available among all those picks at their disposal, not just a few can't miss prospects.

I'm predicting 52 wins but deep down inside I sense that the teams ceiling is somewhere between 44-48 wins with yet another 2nd round exit.

Washington right now is exactly where many posters around here have predicted they'd be 3-4 years ago. Pretty good, not a true contender and maxed to the point where there's really no way to go but down.

By the time this team reaches its apex, it wouldn't be shocking to see them lapped by teams much further down the pecking order currently.

Here's to a great 2018 season

[payitforward]

Kid looks terrific.

[payitforward]

This last draft was incredibly strong well into R2. Getting rid of that pick was criminal. & for no benefit whatever (except to hide Ernie's blunder w/ Nicholson).

Rather than trade that pick, we should have done whatever we could to buy a high R2 pick.

What's amazing about Ernie is the variety of kinds of blunders he is capable of. & the clockwork repetition of dumb decision after dumb decision w/ very very few good ones scattered among them. Remove the 2 ping pong ball gifts, & ask yourself where this team would be based on the last 8 years of rebuilding! Wow!

[Dark Faze]

Washington right now is exactly where many posters around here have predicted they'd be 3-4 years ago. Pretty good, not a true contender and maxed to the point where there's really no way to go but down.

By the time this team reaches its apex, it wouldn't be shocking to see them lapped by teams much further down the pecking order currently.

Here's to a great 2018 season

I'm actually not so pessimistic. I think we're the second best team in the conference, and until LeBron extends in Cleveland, that puts us just a moment away from being best in the conference. I actually like our bench quite a bit now, and I think the dreaded "internal development" could actually yield more this year than ever before. With what Brad and John showed us last year--both have extended their ceilings considerably. If those ceilings can be reached, then it improves our chances considerably. I've seen so many cheesy trades lately that I'm not going to hold it out of the realm of possibility that we make some big time acquisition.

I have a feeling that a healthy Cavs team will end up being better than GS by the playoffs though. The Nets are horrific and that pick will be valuable. If they can get an all-star talent with that piece and IT gets back and is healthy? I think they'd beat the Warriors.

[trast66]

Meeks player option for 18-19 is a crime against humanity.

[closg00]

Meeks player option for 18-19 is a crime against humanity.

WHY!!!!! Does he give every scrub off the street THEM the option? OMFG!!!

Meeks may have some hot-streaks here and there, but Smith & Meeks should have their final year be team options.

[pcbothwel]

Meeks player option for 18-19 is a crime against humanity.

WHY!!!!! Does he give every scrub off the street THEM the option? OMFG!!!

Meeks may have some hot-streaks here and there, but Smith & Meeks should have their final year be team options.

Guys, lets stick with the Mahinmi contract and trading out 2017 1st for the criticisms. Meeks, Smith, and Scott's play will exceed their contract value. i mean, look at the Spurs with Gasol and Mills... That is malpractice right there and they are the pinnacle of NBA Front Offices.

Also, if Otto continues his breakout into being a star and Oubre proves to be a top 15 NBA SF then we may have to re-evaluate.

[trast66]

Meeks player option for 18-19 is a crime against humanity.

WHY!!!!! Does he give every scrub off the street THEM the option? OMFG!!!

Meeks may have some hot-streaks here and there, but Smith & Meeks should have their final year be team options.

Guys, lets stick with the Mahinmi contract and trading out 2017 1st for the criticisms. Meeks, Smith, and Scott's play will exceed their contract value. i mean, look at the Spurs with Gasol and Mills... That is malpractice right there and they are the pinnacle of NBA Front Offices.

Also, if Otto continues his breakout into being a star and Oubre proves to be a top 15 NBA SF then we may have to re-evaluate.

Are we sure we can dump Mahinmi for just 1 first round pick? May take 2 1st rounders at this point. Better to cut and stretch?

[pcbothwel]

WHY!!!!! Does he give every scrub off the street THEM the option? OMFG!!!

Meeks may have some hot-streaks here and there, but Smith & Meeks should have their final year be team options.

Guys, lets stick with the Mahinmi contract and trading out 2017 1st for the criticisms. Meeks, Smith, and Scott's play will exceed their contract value. i mean, look at the Spurs with Gasol and Mills... That is malpractice right there and they are the pinnacle of NBA Front Offices.

Also, if Otto continues his breakout into being a star and Oubre proves to be a top 15 NBA SF then we may have to re-evaluate.

Are we sure we can dump Mahinmi for just 1 first round pick? May take 2 1st rounders at this point. Better to cut and stretch?

You may have quoted the wrong message, but I didnt say anything about trading our pick and Mahinmi. I was talking about the signing of Mahinmi and the separate trade of our 1st last year as reasons to be upset...

And no, Mahinmi is net positive on the basketball court. You dont cut and stretch those players for no reason. We have no hope for cap space so I dont see what the point of stretching him would be. We simply hope that he proves to be an elite defensive player with efficient, but limited offense. He has proven that he can do both, but we'll see.

[nate33]

WHY!!!!! Does he give every scrub off the street THEM the option? OMFG!!!

Meeks may have some hot-streaks here and there, but Smith & Meeks should have their final year be team options.

Guys, lets stick with the Mahinmi contract and trading out 2017 1st for the criticisms. Meeks, Smith, and Scott's play will exceed their contract value. i mean, look at the Spurs with Gasol and Mills... That is malpractice right there and they are the pinnacle of NBA Front Offices.

Also, if Otto continues his breakout into being a star and Oubre proves to be a top 15 NBA SF then we may have to re-evaluate.

Are we sure we can dump Mahinmi for just 1 first round pick? May take 2 1st rounders at this point. Better to cut and stretch?

Stretching is a really bad strategy that hardly ever makes sense except under emergency circumstances. It's much better to pay a decent backup center $16M for 2 years than it is to pay nobody $8M a year for 4 years.