2011 DRAFT blather goes here. Part 3...

[jivelikenice]

I go back & forth on Kawhi. I think his workout and who he's going against will be key in his evaluation. I think its important that they bring him in against a good defender to see if he reported improving perimeter game is legit or if he'll revert back to old habits. Does anyone know when he's coming and & with who else?

[thinker07]

Detroit would have to be REALLY desperate to dump Rip on order to give up a lotto pick for pure cap space. For Cleveland, they could really improve after this deal, especially of Williams can be effective at SF.

If this deal goes down and Utah goes for a PG, we could see Kanter fall right to us at #6.

1. Irving
2. Williams
3. Knight
4. Valanciunas
5. Walker
6. Kanter

The wildcard in trying to figure out Detroit's motivations is the new owner. Given that most people expect the new CBA to have an amnesty for one salary, Detroit wouldn't even need the deal for cap purposes. What I read was that Detroit would also get a $12.5 million TPE, so they could pay another player $12.5 million without adding that to their cap. But the discussion is that this deal is all about really cash for the new owner moreso than cap space.

So they'd give up their lotto pick to save $$ without adding cap space so that they could turn around and spend $$ without adding to their cap?? It all seems kind of elaborate to accomplish something that they could accomplish almost as well by just buying out Rip under an amnesty, and then they'd get to keep their lotto pick which has great value to a rebuilding team in need of cheap players.

[Black Eyed Sooz]

I don't see Detroit going through with this deal... but it does give us a sense of what the t-wolves are looking for in a deal for the #2, i.e. something in the neighborhood of #4 + #8. For the Wizards, like I've been saying, I think the bidding starts at the #6 + next year's unprotected 1st rounder. Does Utah consider dealing us the #3 for less than that? Possibly, but probably not a whole lot less.

I would love to do one of these #6 + #18 or #6 + Seraphin, or #6 + 18 + 34 picks for the #2 or #3 that people have been throwing out here, but I would be VERY surprised if either the the wolves or the Jazz go for that. If we manage to get Enes Kanter, he is not coming cheap.

[kirubel94]

Im pretty sure this is the type of guy that J.Wall needs.... dangerous from the outside... and comes off screens very well.. Just came across this guy.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/davis-bertans

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XHssDGO ... r_embedded

[tontoz]

Detroit would have to be REALLY desperate to dump Rip on order to give up a lotto pick for pure cap space. For Cleveland, they could really improve after this deal, especially of Williams can be effective at SF.

If this deal goes down and Utah goes for a PG, we could see Kanter fall right to us at #6.

1. Irving
2. Williams
3. Knight
4. Valanciunas
5. Walker
6. Kanter

The wildcard in trying to figure out Detroit's motivations is the new owner. Given that most people expect the new CBA to have an amnesty for one salary, Detroit wouldn't even need the deal for cap purposes. What I read was that Detroit would also get a $12.5 million TPE, so they could pay another player $12.5 million without adding that to their cap. But the discussion is that this deal is all about really cash for the new owner moreso than cap space.

So they'd give up their lotto pick to save $$ without adding cap space so that they could turn around and spend $$ without adding to their cap?? It all seems kind of elaborate to accomplish something that they could accomplish almost as well by just buying out Rip under an amnesty, and then they'd get to keep their lotto pick which has great value to a rebuilding team in need of cheap players.

The current salary amnesty in the CBA only applies to the luxury tax, not the actual cap. If the current rule is part of the next CBA then the Pistons wouldn't gain any significant cap space by buying Rip out.

I haven't seen anything to make me believe there will be a clause like the one you are speculating about.

[tontoz]

Detroit would have to be REALLY desperate to dump Rip on order to give up a lotto pick for pure cap space. For Cleveland, they could really improve after this deal, especially of Williams can be effective at SF.

If this deal goes down and Utah goes for a PG, we could see Kanter fall right to us at #6.

1. Irving
2. Williams
3. Knight
4. Valanciunas
5. Walker
6. Kanter

Don't be teasing me, Lyrical. Please.

Logically who would Minny pick at 4? I don't see Kanter as a good fit next to Love and Beasley. JV or BB would fit in fine there.

Then on to Toronto. Is Kanter a good fit with Bargs? Not really.

[pcbothwel]

Im pretty sure this is the type of guy that J.Wall needs.... dangerous from the outside... and comes off screens very well.. Just came across this guy.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/davis-bertans

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XHssDGO ... r_embedded

Wow Kirbel, didnt think anyone else would hop on that bandwagon with me. I think Bertans is the perfect guy to target at 34(even though i dont think he makes it to the 2nd round). For all those that love Harper, this kid really looks like him but with better court vision. He needs to add strength but he is a premier draft & stash. If you watch his highlights you'll see hes a NY style cold-blooded shooter with a suprising smoothness to his game. And hes born in 92 so hes certainly got room to grow.

[7-Day Dray]

Im pretty sure this is the type of guy that J.Wall needs.... dangerous from the outside... and comes off screens very well.. Just came across this guy.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/davis-bertans

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XHssDGO ... r_embedded

Wow Kirbel, didnt think anyone else would hop on that bandwagon with me. I think Bertans is the perfect guy to target at 34(even though i dont think he makes it to the 2nd round). For all those that love Harper, this kid really looks like him but with better court vision. He needs to add strength but he is a premier draft & stash. If you watch his highlights you'll see hes a NY style cold-blooded shooter with a suprising smoothness to his game. And hes born in 92 so hes certainly got room to grow.

There this guys on the NBADraft.net forums that goes by the username JNixon-Iggy9 that is writing evaluations on the top 60 prospects in this draft. Although he is not a professional, he writes great evaluationsthis user is the best scout I know and better than any other professional scout IMO. He has a bright future. Anyway, he has Bertans as the #42 prospect, and this is his evaluation.

42: Davis Bertans, 6’10 211, SG/SF, Union Olimpija (Latvia), 18 years old

A prospect who I haven’t seen play very much but who clearly has a lot of intrigue and potential is 18 year old Davis Bertans. One of the youngest players in the draft, if not THE youngest, as he turns 19 in November. Physically, Bertans has a very skinny 6’10 body that jumps out to you as a perimeter player. He’s got outstanding height for a wing, and a pedestrian 6’10 wingspan relative to his size. Pretty weak right now, and will need time in the weight room before he’s ready to see an NBA floor. Athletically Bertans is certainly smooth and fluid, and he shows decent speed, leaping ability and quickness when he’s in the open floor, but the ball slows him down in the half court and his lateral quickness is mediocre at best.

On offense, Bertans value and by far his main weapon as a player is his outstanding shooting ability. Big-time touch, a quick release, and the size and release point to get off his shot easily. Great footwork, and it makes him extremely effective off screens. It’s a thing of beauty watching him work and move off the ball to free himself for his shot. Has the ability that all good shooters have to set his feet and square his shoulders to the rim no matter how much he’s been moving. Confident, and will let it fly for better or worse. Much better coming off screens, in transition off the ball, and spotting up than he is with his off the dribble shooting. Sometimes settles for highly contested jumpers and can be a non-factor if crowded by an athletic defender. A capable ball-handler, but a lack of strength and physicality makes him a limited threat as a slasher, as does his mediocre at best explosiveness. Nice passing skills and floor vision that comes with his height on the wing. Looks good in transition, and can run and finish very well off a running start. Not likely to win a physical battle and right now seems far too weak and raw to play much at all early, despite having big time shooting skills.

Bertans actually tries more than I thought he would on D, but he’s likely too weak to be a factor anytime soon. Simply has “boy” strength in a man’s league. Lateral quickness isn’t very good. Not likely to get steals or blocks, despite his size. Looks like he will be able to get posted up mercilessly. High center of gravity.

Overall from the little I’ve seen from Bertans, he is more athletic than I thought and more high energy than I would’ve assumed. He’s a great and confident shooter who isn’t scared to let it fly at all. His lack of strength significantly limits his overall game though, especially on D, as a slasher and on the glass. He has intrigue as an Austin Daye-type prospect, but he won’t ever seen an NBA floor until he adds significant strength.

Seems like a solid pickup at #34, even though I doubt he falls that far now.

[WizarDynasty]

I have to admit...Kanter next to love is a horrible defensive front line. Kanter really only works next to a defensive powerforward or center.

A kanter hickson front court really isn't scaring anyone. A kanter love front court--they rebound all day but absolutely no defense.

Kanter has all the exact attributes that their other bigs have.

I think we love Kanter because we have defensive bigs to match him with to hide his weakness.
Like someone mention, a Kanter Bargnani front court looks very ugly. One of hte center's most important jobs is to protect the paint and Kanter can't do that. We have players on our roster with that ability which is why Kanter fits our roster alot better than alot of other lottery teams.
They definitely get scared at the matador defense their fans will have to watch for the next ten years.

[tontoz]

I just noticed something strange. Kanters times in the lane agility test and the sprint were the same as Faried.

[Hoopalotta]

If the newest 3 way trade rumor has any legs then I don't see a trade up at #2 as being possible. #4 & #8 is a lot to move up to #2 and we don't have a packge that can match that.

I don't see Detroit going through with this deal... but it does give us a sense of what the t-wolves are looking for in a deal for the #2, i.e. something in the neighborhood of #4 + #8. For the Wizards, like I've been saying, I think the bidding starts at the #6 + next year's unprotected 1st rounder. Does Utah consider dealing us the #3 for less than that? Possibly, but probably not a whole lot less.

I would love to do one of these #6 + #18 or #6 + Seraphin, or #6 + 18 + 34 picks for the #2 or #3 that people have been throwing out here, but I would be VERY surprised if either the the wolves or the Jazz go for that. If we manage to get Enes Kanter, he is not coming cheap.

Yup, these points are pretty well what I'm drawing from all this too unless by some chance Utah's looking to jam their crock-pot with as many of our greens as possible. There's some talk that 'Sota would be sending out some players with what we've heard just being the template, but still, Cleveland's setting the price for a hop-up to an excruciating threshold.

The Rudy Gay talk was different, but if they pull this one off, they're basically doing a Beluga and Maybach version of the OKC plan. Combined with a bit of luck and extreme suck, it sounds like Gilbert will have basically bought the first and second picks for about $35 million. Nice work, but it would've been the 2nd and 8th picks for $35 million if not for the will of the balls.

[Illuminaire]

Stray thoughts: When info like this leaks, it's often because one side is looking for other offers and hoping to get a higher bid. I'd guess it's Minnesota hoping someone will trump the 4+8, but I don't know if anyone will do that. It's a gamble for them because this is a weak draft, and if no one else bites, Cleveland actually gains leverage to lower the price for themselves.

Regardless, the #2 should have a lot more value than the #3 this year - most experts consider this a two-player lottery followed by a fourteen player crap shoot, and that thinking will probably guide most front offices. The third pick in this draft is more like first scraps than the the superstar laden potential of most years.

[doclinkin]

I just noticed something strange. Kanters times in the lane agility test and the sprint were the same as Faried.

Because Kanter has been training for months specifically to measure well on these tests, whereas for Faried this may well be the first time he's attempted it.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

If Kanter is gone, does anyone think Markieff is viable at 6? I think he's a solid prospect & fills a need, and will contribute sooner than later.

I think I'd be ok with Markieff at 6 and a SF at 18 like Singleton, Leonard or Harris. I'd rather come out with that than lose the 18 to move up for Kanter. But I do like Kanter at 6?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I just noticed something strange. Kanters times in the lane agility test and the sprint were the same as Faried.

Because Kanter has been training for months specifically to measure well on these tests, whereas for Faried this may well be the first time he's attempted it.

What's this about designer steroids? Oh, I'm sorry. Nobody went there. Never mind.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If Kanter is gone, does anyone think Markieff is viable at 6? I think he's a solid prospect & fills a need, and will contribute sooner than later.

I think I'd be ok with Markieff at 6 and a SF at 18 like Singleton, Leonard or Harris. I'd rather come out with that than lose the 18 to move up for Kanter. But I do like Kanter at 6?

I like Faried better than Markieff. I like Brooks more than all of the others, including Harris. Trade down and pick Faried and Brooks is the way I'd go.

I like Markieff at 18 a lot, if the Wizards get Leonard at 6 and Faried is off the board at 18.

I'm settling in on Faried because I think the job of some PFs is simply to grab rebounds and defend. Faried is going to grab more than his share of 50/50 balls and he's going to play at a higher intensity level than anyone on this team.

From the outside looking in, I don't see why Brooks won't be better than Young or Crawford overall.

[Wizardspride]

.

From the outside looking in, I don't see why Brooks won't be better than Young or Crawford overall.

Funny you should mention Nick Young because thats exactly who draftexpress compares Brooks to.

[WizarDynasty]

I think Valuncias would be a pretty nice big for us coming off the bench. What's really nice about him is that he has a very nice motor, and he is actually filling out. He has unbelievably long arms and pretty good touch around the rim. I also like his attitude and think he would fit in pretty well with out squad. I like the fact that he will grind for board and he is probably the best defensive big in this draft in terms of combination of basketball iq, defensive rebounding, and just outworking his man. He does get alot of lift on his jumping but he is more athletic and has legit center size that he doesn't have to jump. With Valuncias you have a big that has more experience against pro's and his learning curve is far above average because of the unique situations that he has faced.
He reminds me alot of Vareajao and we all know that Vareajao was a key component for why Cleveland was one of the best defensive teams when he was healthy during the lebron era. I really don't think many bench players are going to be able to match up with Valuncias combination of size, rebounding tenacity and legitimate threat inside.
I just see us being able to get 10 times more productivity from the center spot off the bench than we have ever had in the past. I think Valuncias really energizes our bigman culture and really boost the IQ on both sides of the ball which is something this team sorely lacks. I can definitely see Valuncias work ethic changing the bigman culture of the wizards. Very rare to find a bigman that has a high motor and rebounding skills...in addition to being a threat offensively. You rarely find a seven footer in college basketball with the combination of Valuncias total package. He would be an excellet addition at 6 and will be much better than Biyombo or any bigman rebounding and pick roll specialist. The other thing is Valuncias has a great attitude about basktball which is rare trait to find in bigmen these days. Valuncias will be our tide shifter coming off the bench that basically forces the other teams to bring back their starter just to man up on Valuncias because he has great hands to receive walls pass off the pick and roll, he isn't afraid to throw his body around and he is 100 percent effort guy that can hurt both offensively and defensively.
Jonas is definitely a guy that has a huge impact on your organization and basketball culture for the next ten years and is a game changer. We need a game changer at position 6 even if he we have to wait a year. We aren't winning the championship next year but Valuncias comes from a culture of winning and has a david robinson type potential.

[FAH1223]

where ngcom ecoring come from in the front court should we get faried...?

[closg00]

I think Valuncias would be a pretty nice big for us coming off the bench. What's really nice about him is that he has a very nice motor, and he is actually filling out. He has unbelievably long arms and pretty good touch around the rim. I also like his attitude and think he would fit in pretty well with out squad. I like the fact that he will grind for board and he is probably the best defensive big in this draft in terms of combination of basketball iq, defensive rebounding, and just outworking his man. He does get alot of lift on his jumping but he is more athletic and has legit center size that he doesn't have to jump. With Valuncias you have a big that has more experience against pro's and his learning curve is far above average because of the unique situations that he has faced.
He reminds me alot of Vareajao and we all know that Vareajao was a key component for why Cleveland was one of the best defensive teams when he was healthy during the lebron era. I really don't think many bench players are going to be able to match up with Valuncias combination of size, rebounding tenacity and legitimate threat inside.
I just see us being able to get 10 times more productivity from the center spot off the bench than we have ever had in the past. I think Valuncias really energizes our bigman culture and really boost the IQ on both sides of the ball which is something this team sorely lacks. I can definitely see Valuncias work ethic changing the bigman culture of the wizards. Very rare to find a bigman that has a high motor and rebounding skills...in addition to being a threat offensively. You rarely find a seven footer in college basketball with the combination of Valuncias total package. He would be an excellet addition at 6 and will be much better than Biyombo or any bigman rebounding and pick roll specialist. The other thing is Valuncias has a great attitude about basktball which is rare trait to find in bigmen these days. Valuncias will be our tide shifter coming off the bench that basically forces the other teams to bring back their starter just to man up on Valuncias because he has great hands to receive walls pass off the pick and roll, he isn't afraid to throw his body around and he is 100 percent effort guy that can hurt both offensively and defensively.
Jonas is definitely a guy that has a huge impact on your organization and basketball culture for the next ten years and is a game changer. We need a game changer at position 6 even if he we have to wait a year. We aren't winning the championship next year but Valuncias comes from a culture of winning and has a david robinson type potential.

Ernie's job is on the line, with Ted ok, perhaps we take JV at 6 otherwise Ernie is going with the safe pick - Leonard or apparently Vesley. I hope that Kanter really wants to play in DC to the point of having his agent to tell the other teams not to draft him.