Official Trade Thread XVIII: 1/20/12 - 5/14/12

queridiculo · Post #1141 » by **queridiculo** » Fri Mar 9, 2012 12:15 am

truwizfan4evr wrote:I would like smith and wall together as a duio. Then have a top pick at that.

I'd take Smith in a heartbeat, I just don't see us being able to put the pieces together to get him here.

jivelikenice · Post #1142 » by **jivelikenice** » Fri Mar 9, 2012 5:11 am

Would Javale/ Turiaf/ & Vesely get you Josh Smith? The Hawks get an expiring in Turiaf, a RFA who they an re-sign in McGee. Getting McGee would allow them to move Horford to his natural PF position. They also get a young prospect in Vesely.

If they want to dump Marvin Williams we can do the following:
ATL trades Marvin Williams/ Josh SMith
Wash trades Turiaf/ Blatche/ Vesely/ McGee/ Singleton

ATL gets 2 young prospects, a Center in McGee, an expiring in Turiaf, and Dray. They take Dray in exchange for us throwing in another prospect.

Post #1143 » by **miller31time** » Fri Mar 9, 2012 5:16 am

I'll basically do anything that brings in talent, especially young talent.

It's amazing Josh Smith is only 26 (and turned 26 just a few months ago).

jivelikenice · Post #1144 » by **jivelikenice** » Fri Mar 9, 2012 5:16 am

Getting Smith would be huge, His length and athleticism along w/ Wall could be dynamic. It would also show Wall that the FO is committed to putting quality players on the floor with him sooner rather than later. It would also make us a much more attractive option to potential free agents in the offseason. Ernie needs to put together in package he can think of that doesn't include wall/ Booker/ or our 1st rounder. If you have Wall, Booker, and Smith you have the start to something pretty good there. A draft pick and a free agent added to the mix and we can be in the playoffs next season.

Post #1145 » by **miller31time** » Fri Mar 9, 2012 5:17 am

jivelikenice wrote:Getting Smith would be huge, His length and athleticism along w/ Wall could be dynamic. It would also show Wall that the FO is committed to putting quality players on the floor with him sooner rather than later. It would also make us a much more attractive option to potential free agents in the offseason. Ernie needs to put together in package he can think of that doesn't include wall/ Booker/ or our 1st rounder. If you have Wall, Booker, and Smith you have the start to something pretty good there. A draft pick and a free agent added to the mix and we can be in the playoffs next season.

Agreed, wholeheartedly. It's more than the move by itself. It speaks to a commitment to winning.

Post #1146 » by **miller31time** » Fri Mar 9, 2012 5:19 am

But for the record, I don't think we have the pieces to get a deal done. Our roster, save for Wall and Booker, is a bunch of knuckleheads. Teams won't give up anything valuable for our trash, nor should they.

queridiculo · Post #1147 » by **queridiculo** » Fri Mar 9, 2012 2:32 pm

Thought this deserved a mention, especially in light of the Josh Smith discussions.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/766 ... lue-part-1

The original JWOWW needs a new team, new fans and a creative point guard who understands his fundamental need to slam home alley-oops with the sustained fury of a pregnant Jessica Simpson housing a box of doughnuts. Did you know the Hawks are paying $46 million to three guys next year (Smith, Al Horford and Joe Johnson)? See where I'm going with this? TRADE!!!!!!!!!

Only one problem: Josh Smith trades never seem to work. Who says no to Smith for Brook Lopez and Memo Okur's Expiring Deal? (Answer: The Hawks.) Who says no to Pau Gasol for Josh Smith, Tracy McGrady and Kirk Hinrich? (Answer: The Lakers.) Who says no to Atlanta saving $20 million next season by dealing Smith and Marvin Williams to Cleveland for Antawn Jamison's expiring contract? (Answer: The Hawks. But they definitely had a two-hour meeting about it.) What about the same Smith/Williams package for KG's expiring deal? (Answer: Probably Boston … if only because Danny Ainge took a designer drug that makes him think he can sign Dwight Howard this summer.) Who says no to a "Derrick Williams and the Anthony Randolph/Anthony Tolliver expirings for Josh Smith" swap? (Answer: Minnesota. But you know who says yes? YouTube!!! Rubio teamed up with Josh Smith????) There's never been a player thrown into more failed Trade Machine deals than Josh Smith.

Rashard Lewis, Javale McGee, top 3 protected 2012 pick or Vesely and unprotected 2013 pick for Marvin Williams and Josh Smith.

For the Hawks, they get a young center with upside to play alongside Horford, salary cap relief and draft picks.

For the Wizards, they add a 26 year old All-Star PF and a legit SF.

Highway robbery, at least from where I am sitting, and within the division no less. That said, the Hawks are notoriously cheap and continue to struggle with attendance despite fielding a perennial playoff team.

Post #1148 » by **Ruzious** » Fri Mar 9, 2012 2:44 pm

jivelikenice wrote:Would Javale/ Turiaf/ & Vesely get you Josh Smith? The Hawks get an expiring in Turiaf, a RFA who they an re-sign in McGee. Getting McGee would allow them to move Horford to his natural PF position. They also get a young prospect in Vesely.

If they want to dump Marvin Williams we can do the following:
ATL trades Marvin Williams/ Josh SMith
Wash trades Turiaf/ Blatche/ Vesely/ McGee/ Singleton

ATL gets 2 young prospects, a Center in McGee, an expiring in Turiaf, and Dray. They take Dray in exchange for us throwing in another prospect.

I think there might be something there. If there's a team that might really want Javale, my guess is it'd be Atlanta - as they've gone year after year with the belief that they need to break up Smith and Horford and get a "real center". And I think you're right - the only way they take Blatche is if we take Marvin - which works much better for us than them, imo.

Post #1149 » by **LyricalRico** » Fri Mar 9, 2012 2:57 pm

Looking forward, how would Smith's presence work if we drafted Davis? Do we play Davis in the middle, or Smith to SF? I don't think either option is palatable.

Of course, the odds say we don't get Davis, so I guess it's probably moot.

Post #1150 » by **Ruzious** » Fri Mar 9, 2012 3:05 pm

LyricalRico wrote:Looking forward, how would Smith's presence work if we drafted Davis? Do we play Davis in the middle, or Smith to SF? I don't think either option is palatable.

Of course, the odds say we don't get Davis, so I guess it's probably moot.

I think you worry about that when it happens - keeping in mind that Smith probably won't lose trade value over the summer.

tontoz · Post #1151 » by **tontoz** » Fri Mar 9, 2012 3:19 pm

The logical destination for Smith, assuming he is traded, is NJ. They can offer Lopez + filler which should be enough. That will make them a very attractive destination for Howard since he and Smith are very close friends. They grew up together.

Smith can't play the 3 at all.

fishercob · Post #1152 » by **fishercob** » Fri Mar 9, 2012 3:31 pm

tontoz wrote:The logical destination for Smith, assuming he is traded, is NJ. They can offer Lopez + filler which should be enough. That will make them a very attractive destination for Howard since he and Smith are very close friends. They grew up together.

Smith can't play the 3 at all.

I agree that NJ is a logical destination. That said, (a) Atlanta might have some pause about gift-wrapping Dwight to NJ (b) is that any better than what the Wizards could offer?

Is Lopez+ filler any better than McGee+Turiaf+Vesley/Crawford/Booker etc?

NJ might have to throw in a first round pick (they have Houston's this year) or Marshon Brooks to entice ATL. I don't see NJ's package as a slam dunk better than our's.

I'd also keep an eye on Denver. They're 5th in offense and 19th in D. Smith would fit well there. Just not sure what they would give up.

Post #1153 » by **Ruzious** » Fri Mar 9, 2012 3:31 pm

tontoz wrote:The logical destination for Smith, assuming he is traded, is NJ. They can offer Lopez + filler which should be enough. That will make them a very attractive destination for Howard since he and Smith are very close friends. They grew up together.

Smith can't play the 3 at all.

That's definitely a great move for NJ, but I don't think Lopez is the kind of center Atlanta would want. Lopez is a great scorer but doesn't do much else - and Atlanta has a bunch of scorers.

tontoz · Post #1154 » by **tontoz** » Fri Mar 9, 2012 3:43 pm

Ruzious wrote:
tontoz wrote:The logical destination for Smith, assuming he is traded, is NJ. They can offer Lopez + filler which should be enough. That will make them a very attractive destination for Howard since he and Smith are very close friends. They grew up together.

Smith can't play the 3 at all.

That's definitely a great move for NJ, but I don't think Lopez is the kind of center Atlanta would want. Lopez is a great scorer but doesn't do much else - and Atlanta has a bunch of scorers.

They have a bunch of shooters. They live and die by the jumper. The only guy who really scores inside is Smith, and he settles for long jumpers far too often.

My guess is that they would take Lopez over Javale. it isn't like Javale's reputation is a secret. NJ could throw in a good pick as well which I am pretty sure this team won't do.

tontoz · Post #1155 » by **tontoz** » Fri Mar 9, 2012 3:45 pm

There is also the possibility that Atlanta might go after Howard themselves. A Horford/Smith package might be better than anything else Orlando could get. Atlanta is Howards hometown.

JJ and Howard would be a pretty strong combo.

mhd · Post #1156 » by **mhd** » Fri Mar 9, 2012 3:59 pm

My latest:

Wiz trade McGee+Turiaf+Jordan Crawford+Mack for Granger
Por trades Wallace+Jamal Crawford for McGee+Turiaf+Dahntay Jones
Indy trades Dahntay Jones+Granger for Wallace+Jamal Crawford+Mack

Indy gets Paul George the SF slot, Crawford the SG slot, and Wallace as a 6th man who can defend.
Portland gets McGee as a center to put next to Aldridge, and allows Matthews and Batum to be the confirmed wings.
Wiz get Granger to be a much needed scorer to put next to Wall. Granger is also more tradeable in the future and is only on the books for 2 more years after this season.

fishercob · Post #1157 » by **fishercob** » Fri Mar 9, 2012 4:04 pm

tontoz wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
tontoz wrote:The logical destination for Smith, assuming he is traded, is NJ. They can offer Lopez + filler which should be enough. That will make them a very attractive destination for Howard since he and Smith are very close friends. They grew up together.

Smith can't play the 3 at all.

That's definitely a great move for NJ, but I don't think Lopez is the kind of center Atlanta would want. Lopez is a great scorer but doesn't do much else - and Atlanta has a bunch of scorers.

They have a bunch of shooters. They live and die by the jumper. The only guy who really scores inside is Smith, and he settles for long jumpers far too often.

My guess is that they would take Lopez over Javale. it isn't like Javale's reputation is a secret. NJ could throw in a good pick as well which I am pretty sure this team won't do.

You could make a good case for them preferring McGee. Lopez's main advantage is he's a much better free throw shooter. Javale is a better rebounder and far better shot blocker. Seeing as they'd be giving up Smith's D and shot-blocking ability, McGee would fill that void more. Also, Lopez is significantly higher usage. McGee might fit into ATL's hierarchy better, as Joe, Horford, Teague, and Marvin all need shots.

Not to mention Lopez's injury issue. It might be nothing. It might be a long term issue. No way of knowing at this point. But he's played all of five games this year and you have to at least consider the risk of a 265 pound dude with a recent history foot and ankle issues.

Comparison: http://bkref.com/tiny/aMQ63

tontoz · Post #1158 » by **tontoz** » Fri Mar 9, 2012 4:09 pm

^ I think you are making to little of McGee's mental ineptitude. Even with his numbers many here are willing to get rid of him because he is so clueless.

fishercob · Post #1159 » by **fishercob** » Fri Mar 9, 2012 4:15 pm

tontoz wrote:^ I think you are making to little of McGee's mental ineptitude. Even with his numbers many here are willing to get rid of him because he is so clueless.

Javale has warts, limitations, whatever you want to call them. But despite those, he's still a productive player. And when you line his numbers up next to Lopez's -- eliminating whatever biases we've developed -- we see that Javale compares very well.

That's not to say Javale is anything special. He just compares well to Lopez.

tontoz · Post #1160 » by **tontoz** » Fri Mar 9, 2012 4:44 pm

fishercob wrote:
tontoz wrote:^ I think you are making to little of McGee's mental ineptitude. Even with his numbers many here are willing to get rid of him because he is so clueless.

Javale has warts, limitations, whatever you want to call them. But despite those, he's still a productive player. And when you line his numbers up next to Lopez's -- eliminating whatever biases we've developed -- we see that Javale compares very well.

That's not to say Javale is anything special. He just compares well to Lopez.

Statistically maybe. But i think Mcgee's reputation kills his trade value.

There is a thread on a hawks board about a Marvin/McGee trade that got a mixed reaction and Hawks fans generally don't think much of Marvin. Not that fan's opinions match the FO opinion.