John Wall Appreciation Thread - Part III

[Wizardspride]

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[nate33]

It's interesting what a lightning rod John Wall is. Differences of opinion about Otto Porter or Marcin Gortat or Kelly Oubre don't turn into the kind of intense -- & often personal -- carrying on that posting about Wall seems to elicit most of the time.

Probably be a good idea to remind oneself from time to time that these guy are basically wealthy professional entertainers & that in the end there is absolutely nothing at stake in NBA games. It's just one of the ways the public is entertained.

That's not intended to belittle any of them -- not John, neither Gortat nor Oubre, not anyone else. Just a way to keep some perspective so as not to get overheated.

Or so it seems to me anyway. YMMV.

I don't think opinions on John Wall are all that different than opinions on guys like Carmelo Anthony or Russell Westbrook. High volume scorers with low efficiency are always polarizing. The stat guys point out that the teams would be better off with that player lowering his usage and distributing those shots to other high efficiency players. The "eye test" guys point out that superstars who can create their own shot, even if it's at a modestly below-average efficiency, still have value because they can score when an offensive set breaks down, and they are more likely to draw defensive attention allowing lesser-skilled teammates an opportunity to score with less defensive focus. There is some truth to both viewpoints, but the two camps rarely agree on exactly where the middle ground is.

[CobraCommander]

It's interesting what a lightning rod John Wall is. Differences of opinion about Otto Porter or Marcin Gortat or Kelly Oubre don't turn into the kind of intense -- & often personal -- carrying on that posting about Wall seems to elicit most of the time.

Probably be a good idea to remind oneself from time to time that these guy are basically wealthy professional entertainers & that in the end there is absolutely nothing at stake in NBA games. It's just one of the ways the public is entertained.

That's not intended to belittle any of them -- not John, neither Gortat nor Oubre, not anyone else. Just a way to keep some perspective so as not to get overheated.

Or so it seems to me anyway. YMMV.

I don't think opinions on John Wall are all that different than opinions on guys like Carmelo Anthony or Russell Westbrook. High volume scorers with low efficiency are always polarizing. The stat guys point out that the teams would be better off with that player lowering his usage and distributing those shots to other high efficiency players. The "eye test" guys point out that superstars who can create their own shot, even if it's at a modestly below-average efficiency, still have value because they can score when an offensive set breaks down, and they are more likely to draw defensive attention allowing lesser-skilled teammates an opportunity to score with less defensive focus. There is some truth to both viewpoints, but the two camps rarely agree on exactly where the middle ground is.

Why bring sanity to the irrational world of team sports fandom? Its simply entertainment... If the wiz win I’m happy and when they lose I’m not happy...but if they won the ring this year...I would not do most of the things i witnessed at Philly SuperbOwl parade.

[nate33]

Zach Lowe's low-key call-out of John Wall:

4. BALL HANDLERS WHO KEEP GOING

Speaking of moving fast: What CJ McCollum does at the end of this possession is one of the most potent tricks any lead ball handler can learn -- and one of the easiest to execute.

McCollum gains enough headway on that second pick-and-roll that the two defenders corralling him -- Abdel Nader from behind, Daniel Theis near the rim -- end up just short of formally switching assignments before McCollum dumps the ball to Zach Collins.

That exact thing happens a lot. The two defenders in that situation often get confused as to who becomes responsible for the ball handler after that kickout pass. Sometimes, each defender thinks the other will chase the guy in McCollum's spot.

The worst thing McCollum can do is loiter under the rim. If he just moves -- anywhere, really -- he can leverage that confusion against the defense, and perhaps spring into a void with no one trailing him. And if the big man -- Theis -- takes him, McCollum can just run the galoot ragged. The most convenient place to go: the near corner.

Smart guards get open looks this way all the time. They slide over a few feet, unguarded, as the defense follows the ball. Stephen Curry mastered this. Kyle Lowry, forever bouncing on his toes, is really good at it, too. John Wall is a loiterer, and transforms himself into a stationary non-threat.

Seriously: This is the low-hanging fruit of point guard play. Just keep moving, and good things will happen!

[Dark Faze]

The problem with the Wall stuff is a lot of guys weren't capable of even playing well until this year.

Sato got plenty of run last year and was bad. Beal has only been good at basketball for two years. Kelly sucked last year. We just got Mike Scott weeks into the season. Heck, Sato wasn't even getting consistent minutes until December of this year.

The last time we had a truly "complete" team that didn't need to be dependent on John was probably 13-14 (last year Ariza played for us) and 14-15 (last year of Nene), John averaged 15.55 shots a game on average for both seasons.

My main point being we need to give John a chance to play with these guys and adapt to what's going on.

[Shanghai Kid]

It seems like public perception wants to turn Wall into an Allen Iverson level ball stopper who held the Wizards back from ball movement.

It's kind of sad that Wall basically during most of his career established himself as a pure point guard and one of the best passers in the league...and in just one stretch it unravels and he's now the "hindrance to ball movement."

Hopefully Wall can turn it around when he plays again.

[nate33]

It seems like public perception wants to turn Wall into an Allen Iverson level ball stopper who held the Wizards back from ball movement.

It's kind of sad that Wall basically during most of his career established himself as a pure point guard and one of the best passers in the league...and in just one stretch it unravels and he's now the "hindrance to ball movement."

Hopefully Wall can turn it around when he plays again.

To me, the issue isn't Wall being selfish. Wall definitely enjoys passing and loves to set up his teammates. It's mostly what Dark Faze alluded to in the post above. Wall is used to carrying his team, and in doing so, he has developed some bad habits.

Every star has to make mental calculations as to when to rely on lesser teammates to take open shots versus when to have better players take contested shots. John knows he's probably better off finishing in the lane than kicking it out to Mahinmi for an open 17 footer. And he's knows he's probably better off creating a last-second bailout midrange jumper than, say, Kelly Oubre.

The problem is, in years past, when he played with lesser teammates, those mental calculations usually concluded that the team is better off with Wall taking a midrange jumper, or driving into the lane 1 on 3, or forcing his way through a poorly executed pick-and-roll that the defense has already smothered. Wall needs to re-adjust those calculations. Now, if that first pick-and-roll is snuffed out by the defense, he shouldn't default to an isolation set leading to a midrange jumper, he should immediately swing the ball and let Porter or Beal run a secondary pick-and-roll, while cutting hard to the basket, or setting a screen for someone else. And if nothing works out, we are probably just as well off with Beal, Porter or Morris trying to score in isolation as we are with Wall.

[CobraCommander]

It seems like public perception wants to turn Wall into an Allen Iverson level ball stopper who held the Wizards back from ball movement.

It's kind of sad that Wall basically during most of his career established himself as a pure point guard and one of the best passers in the league...and in just one stretch it unravels and he's now the "hindrance to ball movement."

Hopefully Wall can turn it around when he plays again.

To me, the issue isn't Wall being selfish. Wall definitely enjoys passing and loves to set up his teammates. It's mostly what Dark Faze alluded to in the post above. Wall is used to carrying his team, and in doing so, he has developed some bad habits.

Every star has to make mental calculations as to when to rely on lesser teammates to take open shots versus when to have better players take contested shots. John knows he's probably better off finishing in the lane than kicking it out to Mahinmi for an open 17 footer. And he's knows he's probably better off creating a last-second bailout midrange jumper than, say, Kelly Oubre.

The problem is, in years past, when he played with lesser teammates, those mental calculations usually concluded that the team is better off with Wall taking a midrange jumper, or driving into the lane 1 on 3, or forcing his way through a poorly executed pick-and-roll that the defense has already smothered. Wall needs to re-adjust those calculations. Now, if that first pick-and-roll is snuffed out by the defense, he shouldn't default to an isolation set leading to a midrange jumper, he should immediately swing the ball and let Porter or Beal run a secondary pick-and-roll, while cutting hard to the basket, or setting a screen for someone else. And if nothing works out, we are probably just as well off with Beal, Porter or Morris trying to score in isolation as we are with Wall.

Totally agree- hope John not listening to those on outside or I can see him overdoing it - hurting the team - getting frustrated and getting himself traded. I’ll be honest- if I were him(he has his money) if the wiz better without him, ask to get moved to NO and play with Boogie and AD. JW is a upgrade over Rondo.


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[FireErnie702]

I expect John to use all of this talk about wiz being better without him as motivation. He always plays better when people doubt him.

His health is what’s most important right now. To be 8-2 since his surgery (should be 9-1) is unbelievable. Nobody saw that coming.

[zero2hero]

Why bring sanity to the irrational world of team sports fandom? Its simply entertainment... If the wiz win I’m happy and when they lose I’m not happy...but if they won the ring this year...I would not do most of the things i witnessed at Philly SuperbOwl parade.

CobraCommander eating horse **** off the ground you heard it here first!

[CobraCommander]

Why bring sanity to the irrational world of team sports fandom? Its simply entertainment... If the wiz win I’m happy and when they lose I’m not happy...but if they won the ring this year...I would not do most of the things i witnessed at Philly SuperbOwl parade.

CobraCommander eating horse **** off the ground you heard it here first!

I want to be insulted but I don’t even know what that means? Ohhhh you nasty... lol - no no no - I almost stopped watching tv when they showed that crap on the lebatard show. But if we win... drinks on me fam!


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[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

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[FAH1223]

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[Illmatic12]

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Those words from Brooks are pretty important. Not what he said about John, but specifically what he said about Porter.

That's the first time I've ever heard Brooks openly acknowledge that Otto should be a bigger scorer on this team. Ever since he's taken over as head coach, it seems like Brooks only ever saw Otto as a ~12ppg 3&d role player and not a bonafide scoring option. Now that Otto is stepping up and growing into that kind of player, Brooks is starting to trust him more and hopefully we see that continue.

I think we've all long wanted Wall to be able to cut down his shot attempts to focus on other parts of his game. Hence the desire to acquire Durant, Cousins etc who would be legit #1 scoring options. Now that Brad and Otto have stepped up so much, it's the perfect time to start introducing that dynamic. Otto should be averaging around ~17ppg moving forward, with Brad at ~23-25ppg and John can scale it back to an efficient 18ppg/11apg

[CobraCommander]

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Those words from Brooks are pretty important. Not what he said about John, but specifically what he said about Porter.

That's the first time I've ever heard Brooks openly acknowledge that Otto should be a bigger scorer on this team. Ever since he's taken over as head coach, it seems like Brooks only ever saw Otto as a ~12ppg 3&d role player and not a bonafide scoring option. Now that Otto is stepping up and growing into that kind of player, Brooks is starting to trust him more and hopefully we see that continue.

I think we've all long wanted Wall to be able to cut down his shot attempts to focus on other parts of his game. Hence the desire to acquire Durant, Cousins etc who would be legit #1 scoring options. Now that Brad and Otto have stepped up so much, it's the perfect time to start introducing that dynamic. Otto should be averaging around ~17ppg moving forward, with Brad at ~23-25ppg and John can scale it back to an efficient 18ppg/11apg

How many points is Otto avg over the time John has been out? John has missed a lot of the year and Otto officially avg 14? I’m going to say this right now...I’m not sure Otto has turned into a number 2 option as a scorer as he still cant consistently (game by game) get his shot.

[tontoz]

I'll believe when I see it. I have seen nothing that makes me believe Wall will willingly sacrifice shot attempts for the benefit of the team. He took a career high shot attempts last season in spite of the breakout years from Beal and Porter.

I think Brooks will have to force it on him and I am not sure Brooks has enough backbone for that.

[tontoz]

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Those words from Brooks are pretty important. Not what he said about John, but specifically what he said about Porter.

That's the first time I've ever heard Brooks openly acknowledge that Otto should be a bigger scorer on this team. Ever since he's taken over as head coach, it seems like Brooks only ever saw Otto as a ~12ppg 3&d role player and not a bonafide scoring option. Now that Otto is stepping up and growing into that kind of player, Brooks is starting to trust him more and hopefully we see that continue.

I think we've all long wanted Wall to be able to cut down his shot attempts to focus on other parts of his game. Hence the desire to acquire Durant, Cousins etc who would be legit #1 scoring options. Now that Brad and Otto have stepped up so much, it's the perfect time to start introducing that dynamic. Otto should be averaging around ~17ppg moving forward, with Brad at ~23-25ppg and John can scale it back to an efficient 18ppg/11apg

How many points is Otto avg over the time John has been out? John has missed a lot of the year and Otto officially avg 14? I’m going to say this right now...I’m not sure Otto has turned into a number 2 option as a scorer as he still cant consistently (game by game) get his shot.

Porter averaged 21 pts per 36 in February. I haven't looked but I would bet it is a career high and he did it without Wall. He also maintained his high efficiency with a TS of 62%.

[Dark Faze]

Porter averaged 21 pts per 36 in February. I haven't looked but I would bet it is a career high and he did it without Wall. He also maintained his high efficiency with a TS of 62%.

He got his shots the same way. Difference was Sato shoots 8 times a game so the ball had many more chances to find Otto in a favorable position. It's not like iso's just started going to Otto. I said in another thread--it's good he's playing good basketball, but even without John on the court he likes to pass the ball when the shot clock is dying down to Kieff or Beal for the low percentage shot. He's gotta start taking that himself some more. You hit a shot like that and all of a sudden you feel good. You start getting really hot. That's the next level for him to get to.