2025 Draft Thread

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

True that. But Queen won’t be there at 26. Clifford might. Would you take him there?

I would take him with our 2nd pick.

I love his size & athleticism at the 2, his feel for the game and passing, 2 way ability & versatile game. Don't love that he's 23, but depending on who we take 1st and how the rest of the draft goes, who enters the draft & who's on the board when we pick, I wouldn't rule him out.

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It's just a mock, but SI has us taking Clifford with our 2nd pick.
https://www.si.com/nba/draft/mock-drafts-big-boards/2025-nba-mock-draft-two-round-projections-ahead-of-sweet-16-march-madness

I would take him second.

If we get Flagg, I would trade down for Queen and assets while dumping Poole (not that he isn't a fair player).

I want Queen.

Sarr is a freak and a grinder who is 19. I would keep him, Kyshawn George and Bilal Coulibaly.

Most importantly, I just like Queen. Cooper Flagg is all world; but I hope Maryland plays Duke in the Final Four.

I think I know what's gonna happen if that occurs.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Queen is a C unless he remakes his body. I think to best take advantage of his skill set, you want him up against other Cs.

I have no issues with Queen offensively. I think he's as polished a 20 yr old I've seen at 6-10 in recent memory. I think the shooting stroke looks good and he'll be fine from 3 in time. All my questions are on the defensive end and with his low revving motor. I've seen him go through the motions on D with low effort. Because of this I would not take him high in the lottery, however as we get later into the 1st round, he starts to become a real value.

I think he's the perfect guy to acquire an extra pick to get.... as long as it doesn't cost a ton to do it. I do think him and Sarr would make an interest pairing as they appear to have strengths that offset each others weaknesses.

This is where I'm at as well. On offense, he'll be fine, but unless he improves his conditioning and puts in the work on the defensive side, he will be an 18-20 mpg/back up 5 type of player. I believe ESPN had him going 10th in their last mock.

yall are describing Thomas Bryant

Ironically, Bryant attended IU.

The Hoosiers pursued Derik Queen hard in recruiting. Indiana offered DQ a much better NIL deal than Maryland's offer.

[prime1time]

Dylan Harper is special. I like Ace but the reality is that Ace requires some projection. I've been focusing specifically on games where Ace struggles and focusing on some of the issues that people listed. Go back and watch early KD. KD would routinely fight for position. Ace never does this unless he's getting the ball on the block. Ace just floats out to the deep midrange/3-point line. And now even if he does a successful move he has to rise up for a deep 2. Ace also routinely just accepts shooting tough shots. The ability to make tough shots is great but that should never be the first choice. There was also a complete lack of floor spacing and Ace did not have the ability to improve his floor spacing.

Ace will have an easier time in the NBA. A good organization will set him up to succeed. Rutgers rarely used Ace in the PnR. This is coaching malpractice. Because it gives your player the ability to attack downhill. Harper/Bailey PnR should have been a staple of the offense. Instead they are sparse. Ace rarely ran off screens. Again coaching malpractice. Ace rarely had dribble handoffs. DHOs are simple plays that you can do to make it easier for your player to get to the basket. Rutgers never used them.

Basically everything Ace did at Rutgers save for a several great passes from Dylan Harper he just created by himself. On nights where the shot wasn't falling or when Harper wasn't playing and the defense could completely key in on him, he struggled. If Ace goes to a good organization that is focused on growing him, he can be special. There will be growing pains, but prime Ace Bailey - assuming that he can address some of the weaknesses in his game - will be an absolute force to reckon with.

I've seen some Danny Granger and Rudy Gay comps. These don't come close imo because Bailey at 18 was way better than these guys. Also, Ace needs to put on muscle.

Watch on YouTube

Look at the size difference between Giannis and Ace. My word.

[prime1time]

Dylan Harper is special. I like Ace but the reality is that Ace requires some projection. I've been focusing specifically on games where Ace struggles and focusing on some of the issues that people listed. Go back and watch early KD. KD would routinely fight for position. Ace never does this unless he's getting the ball on the block. Ace just floats out to the deep midrange/3-point line. And now even if he does a successful move he has to rise up for a deep 2. Ace also routinely just accepts shooting tough shots. The ability to make tough shots is great but that should never be the first choice. There was also a complete lack of floor spacing and Ace did not have the ability to improve his floor spacing.

Ace will have an easier time in the NBA. A good organization will set him up to succeed. Rutgers rarely used Ace in the PnR. This is coaching malpractice. Because it gives your player the ability to attack downhill. Harper/Bailey PnR should have been a staple of the offense. Instead they are sparse. Ace rarely ran off screens. Again coaching malpractice. Ace rarely had dribble handoffs. DHOs are simple plays that you can do to make it easier for your player to get to the basket. Rutgers never used them.

Basically everything Ace did at Rutgers save for a several great passes from Dylan Harper he just created by himself. On nights where the shot wasn't falling or when Harper wasn't playing and the defense could completely key in on him, he struggled. If Ace goes to a good organization that is focused on growing him, he can be special. There will be growing pains, but prime Ace Bailey - assuming that he can address some of the weaknesses in his game - will be an absolute force to reckon with.

I've seen some Danny Granger and Rudy Gay comps. These don't come close imo because Bailey at 18 was way better than these guys. Also, Ace needs to put on muscle.
https://youtu.be/tXbGfHBRx_8?feature=shared
Look at the size difference between Giannis and Ace. My word.

It's important to understand when talking about Ace that Rutgers was a dysfunctional team. They lacked floor spacing. Players weren't put in positions to succeed. The losing wore on the team and players stopped caring about the little things. They stopped caring about setting a good screen or being early on a rotation to stop a driving ball handler. Playing offense at Rutgers was hard work. The fact that Ace had as many good games as he did is purely a testimony to his stunning natural talent and skill level. But I say all of this to put into context just how impressive Dylan Harper is.

Dylan Harper is special. S-P-E-C-I-A-L. Let's focus only on top 5 picks that are guards. Even among this lofty group Dylan Harper still stands out.
- Dylan Harper 57.4 (8.7 attempts) - Leading scorer - 1 other NBA player
- John Wall 50.9 (8.8 attempts) Leading Scorer - Loaded team (7 other NBA draft picks)
- Kyrie Irving 56.9 (5.9 attempts) -Barely played - Loaded team (7 other NBA draft picks)
- Ben Simmons 56.1 (11.6 attempts) - Leading scorer
- Ja Morant 52.5 and 55.6 (6.3 attempts and 11.3 attempts) - Leading Scorer
- Lonzo 73.2 (but he has a very low volume)
- Trae Young 49.3 (Leading scorer)
- De’Aaron Fox 52.1 (10.5 attempts) Second scorer - Loaded team 6 other NBA draft picks
- Cade Cunningham 46.1 (9.1 attempts) Leading scorer no other NBA players
- Darius Garland. (58.1) only played 5 games against bad comp
- Anthony Edwards - 50.4 (8.1 attempts) Leading Scorer - 1 other NBA player
- Jalen Suggs 58.8 - 3rd leading scorer (Loaded team)
- Davion Mitchell 56.5 (as a junior)
- Jaden Ivey 50.8 and 53.1 (5.5 attempts and 7.3 attempts)

This is the 2 point fg % of every top 5 guard pick since 2010. A couple things stand out. Lonzo and Haliburton are very efficient. But they rarely attacked the rim. Lonzo only had 4.1 2 point fg attempts. So basically unless it was a very easy bucket Lonzo wasn't even thinking about it. Haliburton was very similar. His freshman year Haliburton shot 68.5% on 2 point fg's but he only attempted 1.5 a game. Even when you standardize for 40 minutes this only goes up to 1.9 2 point attempts a game. As a sophmore Haliburton became more aggressive but it only went to 5.9 fga. Suggs is an interesting case. He only scored 14 ppg which was 3rd on his team, he played with 5 future NBA draft picks not inlcuding Drew Timme. To put it another way Suggs was 3rd option, his team played in a weak conference and they only lost 1 game all year.

To this list I would add
Derrick Rose 52.1% from 2 on 8.3 attempts - Second Leading scorer
James Harden 57.6% from 2 on 7.8 attempts freshman year (leading scorer) and 56.4 on 8.3 attempts sophomore year (leading scorer) Freshman year only 1 other NBA player. Sophmore year only one other NBA player.

[prime1time]

Dylan Harper is special. I like Ace but the reality is that Ace requires some projection. I've been focusing specifically on games where Ace struggles and focusing on some of the issues that people listed. Go back and watch early KD. KD would routinely fight for position. Ace never does this unless he's getting the ball on the block. Ace just floats out to the deep midrange/3-point line. And now even if he does a successful move he has to rise up for a deep 2. Ace also routinely just accepts shooting tough shots. The ability to make tough shots is great but that should never be the first choice. There was also a complete lack of floor spacing and Ace did not have the ability to improve his floor spacing.

Ace will have an easier time in the NBA. A good organization will set him up to succeed. Rutgers rarely used Ace in the PnR. This is coaching malpractice. Because it gives your player the ability to attack downhill. Harper/Bailey PnR should have been a staple of the offense. Instead they are sparse. Ace rarely ran off screens. Again coaching malpractice. Ace rarely had dribble handoffs. DHOs are simple plays that you can do to make it easier for your player to get to the basket. Rutgers never used them.

Basically everything Ace did at Rutgers save for a several great passes from Dylan Harper he just created by himself. On nights where the shot wasn't falling or when Harper wasn't playing and the defense could completely key in on him, he struggled. If Ace goes to a good organization that is focused on growing him, he can be special. There will be growing pains, but prime Ace Bailey - assuming that he can address some of the weaknesses in his game - will be an absolute force to reckon with.

I've seen some Danny Granger and Rudy Gay comps. These don't come close imo because Bailey at 18 was way better than these guys. Also, Ace needs to put on muscle.
https://youtu.be/tXbGfHBRx_8?feature=shared
Look at the size difference between Giannis and Ace. My word.

It's important to understand when talking about Ace that Rutgers was a dysfunctional team. They lacked floor spacing. Players weren't put in positions to succeed. The losing wore on the team and players stopped caring about the little things. They stopped caring about setting a good screen or being early on a rotation to stop a driving ball handler. Playing offense at Rutgers was hard work. The fact that Ace had as many good games as he did is purely a testimony to his stunning natural talent and skill level. But I say all of this to put into context just how impressive Dylan Harper is.

Dylan Harper is special. S-P-E-C-I-A-L. Let's focus only on top 5 picks that are guards. Even among this lofty group Dylan Harper still stands out.
- Dylan Harper 57.4 (8.7 attempts) - Leading scorer - 1 other NBA player
- John Wall 50.9 (8.8 attempts) Leading Scorer - Loaded team (7 other NBA draft picks)
- Kyrie Irving 56.9 (5.9 attempts) -Barely played - Loaded team (7 other NBA draft picks)
- Ben Simmons 56.1 (11.6 attempts) - Leading scorer
- Ja Morant 52.5 and 55.6 (6.3 attempts and 11.3 attempts) - Leading Scorer
- Lonzo 73.2 (but he has a very low volume)
- Trae Young 49.3 (Leading scorer)
- De’Aaron Fox 52.1 (10.5 attempts) Second scorer - Loaded team 6 other NBA draft picks
- Cade Cunningham 46.1 (9.1 attempts) Leading scorer no other NBA players
- Darius Garland. (58.1) only played 5 games against bad comp
- Anthony Edwards - 50.4 (8.1 attempts) Leading Scorer - 1 other NBA player
- Jalen Suggs 58.8 - 3rd leading scorer (Loaded team)
- Davion Mitchell 56.5 (as a junior)
- Jaden Ivey 50.8 and 53.1 (5.5 attempts and 7.3 attempts)

This is the 2 point fg % of every top 5 guard pick since 2010. A couple things stand out. Lonzo and Haliburton are very efficient. But they rarely attacked the rim. Lonzo only had 4.1 2 point fg attempts. So basically unless it was a very easy bucket Lonzo wasn't even thinking about it. Haliburton was very similar. His freshman year Haliburton shot 68.5% on 2 point fg's but he only attempted 1.5 a game. Even when you standardize for 40 minutes this only goes up to 1.9 2 point attempts a game. As a sophmore Haliburton became more aggressive but it only went to 5.9 fga. Suggs is an interesting case. He only scored 14 ppg which was 3rd on his team, he played with 5 future NBA draft picks not inlcuding Drew Timme. To put it another way Suggs was 3rd option, his team played in a weak conference and they only lost 1 game all year.

To this list I would add
Derrick Rose 52.1% from 2 on 8.3 attempts - Second Leading scorer
James Harden 57.6% from 2 on 7.8 attempts freshman year (leading scorer) and 56.4 on 8.3 attempts sophomore year (leading scorer) Freshman year only 1 other NBA player. Sophmore year only one other NBA player.

The reason I like 2 point attempts and 2 point fg% is that it gets to the heart of one of the central issues that faces guard and wings. In modern basketball 3-point shooting is king. But the ability to navigate inside the 3-point line, where space is tight and more pressure is put on your ball handling; where help defenders will come rushing at you and rim protectors will try to stop you from finishing is the elite level of offensive scoring. In the modern NBA having shooters around your scorers will provide them space, but eventually you need players who can be efficient without spacing. The other night Kyrie took on the Lakers without any real talent around him and scored like it was normal game.

Watch on YouTube

Some of the 2 fg % Kyrie in the last several years are 57, 54.8 and 56. And this is on a high number of attempts coming inside the 3-point line. The last 11 years KD has averaged 57.5% on 2s. Since his championship Kawhi has averaged 54% on 2s.

The ability to be efficient inside the 3-point line, with or without spacing is so important because then you're only shooting 3's when you want to instead of having to. Brandon Miller attempted 10.9 3's a game this year. He only attempted 7.3 2's a game and shot 47.3% on the ones that he attempted. This is an example, in my opinion, of a player avoiding the inside of the 3-point line. His team is not good, the spacing doesn't exist and he can't be efficient or effective so he'll just sit at the 3-point line and bomb 3's. But when you do that - unless your Steph or Harden or another elite 3-point shooter - you aren't putting pressure on the defense. You aren't making the game easier for the players around you. And when you have an off night - the game falls apart.

[prime1time]

Dylan Harper is special. I like Ace but the reality is that Ace requires some projection. I've been focusing specifically on games where Ace struggles and focusing on some of the issues that people listed. Go back and watch early KD. KD would routinely fight for position. Ace never does this unless he's getting the ball on the block. Ace just floats out to the deep midrange/3-point line. And now even if he does a successful move he has to rise up for a deep 2. Ace also routinely just accepts shooting tough shots. The ability to make tough shots is great but that should never be the first choice. There was also a complete lack of floor spacing and Ace did not have the ability to improve his floor spacing.

Ace will have an easier time in the NBA. A good organization will set him up to succeed. Rutgers rarely used Ace in the PnR. This is coaching malpractice. Because it gives your player the ability to attack downhill. Harper/Bailey PnR should have been a staple of the offense. Instead they are sparse. Ace rarely ran off screens. Again coaching malpractice. Ace rarely had dribble handoffs. DHOs are simple plays that you can do to make it easier for your player to get to the basket. Rutgers never used them.

Basically everything Ace did at Rutgers save for a several great passes from Dylan Harper he just created by himself. On nights where the shot wasn't falling or when Harper wasn't playing and the defense could completely key in on him, he struggled. If Ace goes to a good organization that is focused on growing him, he can be special. There will be growing pains, but prime Ace Bailey - assuming that he can address some of the weaknesses in his game - will be an absolute force to reckon with.

I've seen some Danny Granger and Rudy Gay comps. These don't come close imo because Bailey at 18 was way better than these guys. Also, Ace needs to put on muscle.
https://youtu.be/tXbGfHBRx_8?feature=shared
Look at the size difference between Giannis and Ace. My word.

It's important to understand when talking about Ace that Rutgers was a dysfunctional team. They lacked floor spacing. Players weren't put in positions to succeed. The losing wore on the team and players stopped caring about the little things. They stopped caring about setting a good screen or being early on a rotation to stop a driving ball handler. Playing offense at Rutgers was hard work. The fact that Ace had as many good games as he did is purely a testimony to his stunning natural talent and skill level. But I say all of this to put into context just how impressive Dylan Harper is.

Dylan Harper is special. S-P-E-C-I-A-L. Let's focus only on top 5 picks that are guards. Even among this lofty group Dylan Harper still stands out.
- Dylan Harper 57.4 (8.7 attempts) - Leading scorer - 1 other NBA player
- John Wall 50.9 (8.8 attempts) Leading Scorer - Loaded team (7 other NBA draft picks)
- Kyrie Irving 56.9 (5.9 attempts) -Barely played - Loaded team (7 other NBA draft picks)
- Ben Simmons 56.1 (11.6 attempts) - Leading scorer
- Ja Morant 52.5 and 55.6 (6.3 attempts and 11.3 attempts) - Leading Scorer
- Lonzo 73.2 (but he has a very low volume)
- Trae Young 49.3 (Leading scorer)
- De’Aaron Fox 52.1 (10.5 attempts) Second scorer - Loaded team 6 other NBA draft picks
- Cade Cunningham 46.1 (9.1 attempts) Leading scorer no other NBA players
- Darius Garland. (58.1) only played 5 games against bad comp
- Anthony Edwards - 50.4 (8.1 attempts) Leading Scorer - 1 other NBA player
- Jalen Suggs 58.8 - 3rd leading scorer (Loaded team)
- Davion Mitchell 56.5 (as a junior)
- Jaden Ivey 50.8 and 53.1 (5.5 attempts and 7.3 attempts)

This is the 2 point fg % of every top 5 guard pick since 2010. A couple things stand out. Lonzo and Haliburton are very efficient. But they rarely attacked the rim. Lonzo only had 4.1 2 point fg attempts. So basically unless it was a very easy bucket Lonzo wasn't even thinking about it. Haliburton was very similar. His freshman year Haliburton shot 68.5% on 2 point fg's but he only attempted 1.5 a game. Even when you standardize for 40 minutes this only goes up to 1.9 2 point attempts a game. As a sophmore Haliburton became more aggressive but it only went to 5.9 fga. Suggs is an interesting case. He only scored 14 ppg which was 3rd on his team, he played with 5 future NBA draft picks not inlcuding Drew Timme. To put it another way Suggs was 3rd option, his team played in a weak conference and they only lost 1 game all year.

To this list I would add
Derrick Rose 52.1% from 2 on 8.3 attempts - Second Leading scorer
James Harden 57.6% from 2 on 7.8 attempts freshman year (leading scorer) and 56.4 on 8.3 attempts sophomore year (leading scorer) Freshman year only 1 other NBA player. Sophmore year only one other NBA player.

The reason I like 2 point attempts and 2 point fg% is that it gets to the heart of one of the central issues that faces guard and wings. In modern basketball 3-point shooting is king. But the ability to navigate inside the 3-point line, where space is tight and more pressure is put on your ball handling; where help defenders will come rushing at you and rim protectors will try to stop you from finishing is the elite level of offensive scoring. In the modern NBA having shooters around your scorers will provide them space, but eventually you need players who can be efficient without spacing. The other night Kyrie took on the Lakers without any real talent around him and scored like it was normal game.

Watch on YouTube

Some of the 2 fg % Kyrie in the last several years are 57, 54.8 and 56. And this is on a high number of attempts coming inside the 3-point line. The last 11 years KD has averaged 57.5% on 2s. Since his championship Kawhi has averaged 54% on 2s.

The ability to be efficient inside the 3-point line, with or without spacing is so important because then you're only shooting 3's when you want to instead of having to. Brandon Miller attempted 10.9 3's a game this year. He only attempted 7.3 2's a game and shot 47.3% on the ones that he attempted. This is an example, in my opinion, of a player avoiding the inside of the 3-point line. His team is not good, the spacing doesn't exist and he can't be efficient or effective so he'll just sit at the 3-point line and bomb 3's. But when you do that - unless your Steph or Harden or another elite 3-point shooter - you aren't putting pressure on the defense. You aren't making the game easier for the players around you. And when you have an off night - the game falls apart.

It is in this context that Harper's game must be analyzed. He had bad teammates other than Ace. Teams were loaded up to stop him. He faced multiple help defenders. He had to deal with legit size and rim protection. On a typical Harper drive, he would beat his man, then he would deal with the help, finally he would finish over the rim protector guarding the rim. This is elite level basketball play. And he did it time and time and time again. When the team was over playing the drive he would rise up and knock down the midrange jumper. When teams would cut off one hand he would quickly side step or spin or long stride and go to the other hand. His ability to navigate inside of the 2-point line is the best I've seen from a guard in college. Granted I didn't watch that much Harden.

Let me use a football analogy. Dylan Harper is like a having a football team that is great at running the ball. Even when opposing defenses sell out to stop the run, this team is so good at running the ball that they cannot be stopped. This is Dylan Harper operating inside the 3-point line. Even if you send help it won't be enough. And by sending help you are now leaving players open. And Harper is good enough to find them and make the pass. On a team loaded with talent Cooper Flagg shot a very good 53.6% from 2. Think about that. If defenders were helping Flagg could easily pass the ball to Proctor or Knueppel or throw the lob to Maluach. So he could self select out the ideal attemtps and yet Harper still had a higher 2 point fg%.

Harper needs to improve his 3-point shooting - but just by going to the NBA and having other functional players that can run the offense and get him some spot up 3s I would expect to see significant improvement. We all remember how great Markelle Fultz was at Washington his freshman year. Harper was significantly more efficient from 2 than him. Even if the 3-point shooting doesn't increase Harper projects as an offensive engine. A player who's ability to put pressure on the defense will make the game easier for everyone. If the 3-point shooting improves Harper projects to be in the conversation with the best guard and wing scorers in the game. At 6'6 215, 6'10 wingspan he could reasonably guard 1-4.

Every team needs a player that makes the offense flow. Dylan Harper is that guy. Initially he might struggle with elite defenders that have both size, strength, long wingspans, quick feet etc. But even in those situations you would just use a screen to get a switch. Harper will be a good player on day 1. As much as I like Bailey and believe in him, the difference with Bailey and Harper is that Harper has already shown what he's capable of. If he went to a good game, he would have challenged Flagg for all the major college basketball awards. It'll be interesting to see how many big time recruits going forward choose to go to dysfunctional programs. If the Wiz can draft Harper he will go down as the best player in the history of our organization if he can stay healthy. He's better than Wall. And for my money, it's not close.

Watch on YouTube

[prime1time]

I like Maluach as prospect because I think he has offensive upside. But what I really don't like is that he went to a team that refused to let him do anything outside of PnR dunks or the very rare post up the entire season. So instead of having a year where he could grow and develop he basically had a year where his offensive game never saw live reps. Much like Sarr in Australia, Maluach offensive game is pure projection. For the month of March Sarr is shooting nearly 6 3's a game. I guess Maluach's camp decided better to go to Duke and be featured than spend the entire year getting live reps and working on your offensive repertoire. If I'm Maluach's agent I'm trying to pull a Sarr and get my player to a team/organization that will actually give him a chance to develop.

[prime1time]

The way we evaluate players is tailor made for Cooper Flagg. When players go to bad teams, we are forced to try to find where precisely the effects of having bad teammates end and where the players personal weaknesses start. Did Ace struggle against Michigan because Harper was out and teams were keying in on him and none of his teammates were a threat or did he struggle because he has flaws in his game? What would Ace's numbers be if he had competent teammates and a coach that could set him up for success. What would Harper have shot from 3 if he had wide open 3-point attempts like Flagg did at Duke?

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Look at the space that Flagg (36 seconds and 47 seconds has around him on his 3-point attempts. What would Harper's or Bailey's 3-point percentage be if these were the shots they were getting? Where does the impact of having great players around you end and the impact of your own personal skill/ability begin? To the degree that we take a players stats and production at face value, never stopping to think about the context they were produced, we end up with blind spots. Some blind spots could be small enough not to impact any conclusions that we draw but others could end up completely changing our conclusions if we knew about them.

Cooper Flagg will be the #1 pick but it will be very interesting to see how he plays on a team that isn't vastly more talented than there opponents. It's one thing to be the "guy" when and you're riding the wave of a blow out. It's a whole other thing, when you need to be the reason why your team doesn't drown. If a team gets luck and has a solid roster around Flagg I think he'll fit right in as a non-primary option doing all the small things that help a team win. And as he continues to work on his game the sky is the limit.

The best thing about Flagg is that he got better as the season went on. Granted he played in the ACC and it sucked, but he still improved. And in the NBA improvement is the most important thing. I don't know if he'll ever be good enough offensively to be a #1 option but he to me projects as a tone setter for the entire organization. His intensity, his passion, his work ethic these are the building blocks that every great organization has. Personally for me, if we end up with the #1 pick I would try to trade to #2 and draft Harper. If that wasn't a possiblity, I would see what the team with the 3rd pick had and draft Ace.

I feel like given the massive expectations placed on Flagg and the current state of the Wizards roster he might struggle initially if he came here. Especially given the fact that I think Harper will come out firing on all cylinders to start the year. In the long run I think Flagg will have success reagrdless of where he goes. But Flagg at his best is what you're seeing from him at Duke right now. He can roam on defense because the back line is so reliable and can clean up any potential issues that he makes. He doesn't have to force anything because the talent around him always gives him a good out. He can self select the shots he takes because no one is relying on him to save the team night in and night out.

Maybe a better shooting, better defensive, more efficient version of Franz Wagner. For perspective Wagner is averaging 24-6-5 this year but the Magic are in the play in. What does everyone else think? Apparently some GM through out a Kawhi comparison. I get it but Kawhi is so efficient offensively. If Kawhi stayed healthy he would have been a lock for top 15 player of all time. I'm not sold that Flagg has that ceiling although if he improves every season like Kawhi did he could eventually get there.

[Dat2U]

My only response to taking Queen 2nd or potentially trading down from 1st for him is defense matters. Even more so at the C position.

The times he floats or checks out on D, he gets away with at the college level because of the disparity in talent, but NBA coaches won't let that fly.

He can literally average 25 & 12 per 40 and it won't matter if the coach doesn't think they can trust him the defend the position, he becomes relegated to being a backup.

[prime1time]

Last thing on Flagg. Flagg transfered to Montverede after his freshman year of high school. His high school teams were considered some of the most talented ever. Derik Queen, Liam McNeely, Asa Newell and Robert Wright. From there he goes to Duke. This is the direct opposite of what Gilbert Arenas advocates.

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His whole thing is that if you're goal is to be a star in the NBA you should put yourself in situations growing up where you have to be the guy. Situations where, if you coast, your team will lose. Situations where you can't take any plays off or any nights off because your team needs you that much. To put it simply, those are not the conditions that made Flagg. Flagg up until this point has been a front runner. He's played on the most talented teams and he's had to navigate not stepping on the toes of other stars. The team that drafts Flagg will do so with the expectations that he will be THE guy. It's interesting that a guy who's actually been the #1 option before in the NBA decided to purposefully put his son in situations where he was not on the most talented team. I expect Flagg to have a real learning curve figuring out if he can be/how to be a #1 option.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

My only response to taking Queen 2nd or potentially trading down from 1st for him is defense matters. Even more so at the C position.

The times he floats or checks out on D, he gets away with at the college level because of the disparity in talent, but NBA coaches won't let that fly.

He can literally average 25 & 12 per 40 and it won't matter if the coach doesn't think they can trust him the defend the position, he becomes relegated to being a backup.

I agree with all of that.

However, if DQ's coach doesn't like 25 and 12 (with at least 5 assists); then fire that coach.

[Benjammin]

I much prefer Maluach to play with Sarr than DQ. It's not even close to me..

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

[Dat2U]

I view Flagg as an automatic floor raiser. I think his energy and effort coming from the #1 pick will make other young guys on his team fall in line. You want your best player to be your best example to the rest of the roster and he exemplifies that perfectly.

He's done enough to be deserving of a #1 pick but I don't see elite offensive skills (yet). I see a guy that is pretty good at every freaking thing but not elite at anything offensively other than maybe attacking & finishing in transition. The ability to do it all from creating off the bounce, running the P&R, defending in the post or perimeter at 6-9, the motor, + lateral movement, electric bounce and absolute fearlessness is what makes him unique and really special. Of course he's 18 1/2 so there is still is alot of time for him to continue to evolve, improve and ibecome elite at one or more areas.

I have no doubt he'll be a very good NBA player from day 1, win rookie of the year and cause a significant bump in any teams win total with his sheer competiveness and polish.

Long term the main question will be can he be a legit #1 option on offense?

[payitforward]

Great discussion. & Prime wrote a dang book today!

[Dat2U]

I love V.J. Edgecombe and Jase Richardson.

VJ. has the safest floor outside of Flagg with his 99% athleticism, high IQ and work ethic.

Jase can operate in a phone booth despite not being a high flier. I think his short space quickness makes him an underrated athlete and it's allowed him to be an elite driver with his handle. Add a cerebral feel to the game that you can only expect from a farmer's players son so I'm really high on him.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Big Board. (1st draft)

Flagg
Harper
Maluach
Fears
Ace
Asa
CMB
Queen
Essengue
Bryant
Jase
VJ
Tre
Sorber
Fleming
Beringer
Wolf
Nique
McNeeley
Toppin
Kaspar
Raynaud
Evans
Egor
Traore
Condon
Penda
Clayton
Solo Ball
Stojakovic

[DCZards]

I love V.J. Edgecombe and Jase Richardson.

VJ. has the safest floor outside of Flagg with his 99% athleticism, high IQ and work ethic.

Jase can operate in a phone booth despite not being a high flier. I think his short space quickness makes him an underrated athlete and it's allowed him to be an elite driver with his handle. Add a cerebral feel to the game that you can only expect from a farmer's players son so I'm really high on him.

Yeah…I think VJ is probably locked in at #3 ahead of Bailey, Maluach, etc. He was a little too unselfish at the start of the season but when that changed he showed he was special. Great motor, highly-skilled, and uber athletic.

I like Richardson for many of the same reasons that you do. Reminds me a little of Donovan Mitchell. Both are 6-3 and don’t look the part when it comes to being good athletes. Donovan went 13th in the 2017 draft but has turned out to be the second best player out of that draft after Tatum.

(Side note: Mitchell grew up in my cousin’s neighborhood in Westchester County, NY…about 30 mins from MSG. (My cuz would tell me about him when he was in HS.) But instead of drafting the local kid at #8 in 2017 the stupid Knicks drafted Frank Ntilikina from France. Still pisses me off.)

I’ve seen Richardson mocked from as high as 8 to about 15 or 16.

I noticed that you have Boogie Fland as a late lottery pick. He missed a lot of games with a hand injury but I like what I’ve seen from him during the tournament. As a native New Yorker I’m always looking for NYC guards like Boogie who might make a splash in the NBA. What do you like about Boogie?

[TheBlackCzar]

It's important to understand when talking about Ace that Rutgers was a dysfunctional team. They lacked floor spacing. Players weren't put in positions to succeed. The losing wore on the team and players stopped caring about the little things. They stopped caring about setting a good screen or being early on a rotation to stop a driving ball handler. Playing offense at Rutgers was hard work. The fact that Ace had as many good games as he did is purely a testimony to his stunning natural talent and skill level. But I say all of this to put into context just how impressive Dylan Harper is.

Dylan Harper is special. S-P-E-C-I-A-L. Let's focus only on top 5 picks that are guards. Even among this lofty group Dylan Harper still stands out.
- Dylan Harper 57.4 (8.7 attempts) - Leading scorer - 1 other NBA player
- John Wall 50.9 (8.8 attempts) Leading Scorer - Loaded team (7 other NBA draft picks)
- Kyrie Irving 56.9 (5.9 attempts) -Barely played - Loaded team (7 other NBA draft picks)
- Ben Simmons 56.1 (11.6 attempts) - Leading scorer
- Ja Morant 52.5 and 55.6 (6.3 attempts and 11.3 attempts) - Leading Scorer
- Lonzo 73.2 (but he has a very low volume)
- Trae Young 49.3 (Leading scorer)
- De’Aaron Fox 52.1 (10.5 attempts) Second scorer - Loaded team 6 other NBA draft picks
- Cade Cunningham 46.1 (9.1 attempts) Leading scorer no other NBA players
- Darius Garland. (58.1) only played 5 games against bad comp
- Anthony Edwards - 50.4 (8.1 attempts) Leading Scorer - 1 other NBA player
- Jalen Suggs 58.8 - 3rd leading scorer (Loaded team)
- Davion Mitchell 56.5 (as a junior)
- Jaden Ivey 50.8 and 53.1 (5.5 attempts and 7.3 attempts)

This is the 2 point fg % of every top 5 guard pick since 2010. A couple things stand out. Lonzo and Haliburton are very efficient. But they rarely attacked the rim. Lonzo only had 4.1 2 point fg attempts. So basically unless it was a very easy bucket Lonzo wasn't even thinking about it. Haliburton was very similar. His freshman year Haliburton shot 68.5% on 2 point fg's but he only attempted 1.5 a game. Even when you standardize for 40 minutes this only goes up to 1.9 2 point attempts a game. As a sophmore Haliburton became more aggressive but it only went to 5.9 fga. Suggs is an interesting case. He only scored 14 ppg which was 3rd on his team, he played with 5 future NBA draft picks not inlcuding Drew Timme. To put it another way Suggs was 3rd option, his team played in a weak conference and they only lost 1 game all year.

To this list I would add
Derrick Rose 52.1% from 2 on 8.3 attempts - Second Leading scorer
James Harden 57.6% from 2 on 7.8 attempts freshman year (leading scorer) and 56.4 on 8.3 attempts sophomore year (leading scorer) Freshman year only 1 other NBA player. Sophmore year only one other NBA player.

The reason I like 2 point attempts and 2 point fg% is that it gets to the heart of one of the central issues that faces guard and wings. In modern basketball 3-point shooting is king. But the ability to navigate inside the 3-point line, where space is tight and more pressure is put on your ball handling; where help defenders will come rushing at you and rim protectors will try to stop you from finishing is the elite level of offensive scoring. In the modern NBA having shooters around your scorers will provide them space, but eventually you need players who can be efficient without spacing. The other night Kyrie took on the Lakers without any real talent around him and scored like it was normal game.

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Some of the 2 fg % Kyrie in the last several years are 57, 54.8 and 56. And this is on a high number of attempts coming inside the 3-point line. The last 11 years KD has averaged 57.5% on 2s. Since his championship Kawhi has averaged 54% on 2s.

The ability to be efficient inside the 3-point line, with or without spacing is so important because then you're only shooting 3's when you want to instead of having to. Brandon Miller attempted 10.9 3's a game this year. He only attempted 7.3 2's a game and shot 47.3% on the ones that he attempted. This is an example, in my opinion, of a player avoiding the inside of the 3-point line. His team is not good, the spacing doesn't exist and he can't be efficient or effective so he'll just sit at the 3-point line and bomb 3's. But when you do that - unless your Steph or Harden or another elite 3-point shooter - you aren't putting pressure on the defense. You aren't making the game easier for the players around you. And when you have an off night - the game falls apart.

It is in this context that Harper's game must be analyzed. He had bad teammates other than Ace. Teams were loaded up to stop him. He faced multiple help defenders. He had to deal with legit size and rim protection. On a typical Harper drive, he would beat his man, then he would deal with the help, finally he would finish over the rim protector guarding the rim. This is elite level basketball play. And he did it time and time and time again. When the team was over playing the drive he would rise up and knock down the midrange jumper. When teams would cut off one hand he would quickly side step or spin or long stride and go to the other hand. His ability to navigate inside of the 2-point line is the best I've seen from a guard in college. Granted I didn't watch that much Harden.

Let me use a football analogy. Dylan Harper is like a having a football team that is great at running the ball. Even when opposing defenses sell out to stop the run, this team is so good at running the ball that they cannot be stopped. This is Dylan Harper operating inside the 3-point line. Even if you send help it won't be enough. And by sending help you are now leaving players open. And Harper is good enough to find them and make the pass. On a team loaded with talent Cooper Flagg shot a very good 53.6% from 2. Think about that. If defenders were helping Flagg could easily pass the ball to Proctor or Knueppel or throw the lob to Maluach. So he could self select out the ideal attemtps and yet Harper still had a higher 2 point fg%.

Harper needs to improve his 3-point shooting - but just by going to the NBA and having other functional players that can run the offense and get him some spot up 3s I would expect to see significant improvement. We all remember how great Markelle Fultz was at Washington his freshman year. Harper was significantly more efficient from 2 than him. Even if the 3-point shooting doesn't increase Harper projects as an offensive engine. A player who's ability to put pressure on the defense will make the game easier for everyone. If the 3-point shooting improves Harper projects to be in the conversation with the best guard and wing scorers in the game. At 6'6 215, 6'10 wingspan he could reasonably guard 1-4.

Every team needs a player that makes the offense flow. Dylan Harper is that guy. Initially he might struggle with elite defenders that have both size, strength, long wingspans, quick feet etc. But even in those situations you would just use a screen to get a switch. Harper will be a good player on day 1. As much as I like Bailey and believe in him, the difference with Bailey and Harper is that Harper has already shown what he's capable of. If he went to a good game, he would have challenged Flagg for all the major college basketball awards. It'll be interesting to see how many big time recruits going forward choose to go to dysfunctional programs. If the Wiz can draft Harper he will go down as the best player in the history of our organization if he can stay healthy. He's better than Wall. And for my money, it's not close.

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Harper is the player i want most out of this draft, because he's going to be a vicious lead guard in the NBA....... I wanted Bailey at first but Harper does remind me very much of a taller Jalen Brunson which is an amazing possibility for him...... Harper just is so nice with the ball and it's like I think that would rule out Alijah maybe being an option next year, but I'm kinda leaning towards a bird in the hand if we could get him this draft.....


I don't know man I still want Alijah Arenas, that boy is also special and if we got both these guys, mercy we'd be a serious problem with the rest of our youngings...


https://youtube.com/shorts/yjhJ3J4k-E4?si=ePrCIsdaK_OyuNzY

[prime1time]

I love V.J. Edgecombe and Jase Richardson.

VJ. has the safest floor outside of Flagg with his 99% athleticism, high IQ and work ethic.

Jase can operate in a phone booth despite not being a high flier. I think his short space quickness makes him an underrated athlete and it's allowed him to be an elite driver with his handle. Add a cerebral feel to the game that you can only expect from a farmer's players son so I'm really high on him.

I think the issue with guys like Edgecombe and Jase is that they to - go with the flow for me. You watch Michigan State play and long stretches of the game Richardson does nothing. Than he makes a play here and he makes a play there. And the same goes for Edgecombe. I saw him against Duke. He had a nice dunk and some nice put back rebounds, but nothing that I saw screamed special. To put it succinctly, these are role players. There's nothing wrong with being a role player, but the Wizards need players who can be #1 and #2 options. The reason we suck is that we don't have one. I'd rather swing for Bailey, pour every resource that our team has behind him to develop him and fail than draft a role player and hope they change their mentality.

[prime1time]

So much of the NBA draft is about projection. Trying to understand and navigate the mindset of 18 and 19 year olds. How will they respond when they get money and have success. I'd argue that just as important as a players skills and physical ability is a players "theory of self." This is why when scouting players I always seek out interviews where they talk about their game. I want to know why basketball is important to them. I want to know who they pattern their game after. As young men, how they play basketball is directly tied into the player they are working towards and eventually hope to be.

I say all of this because, #1 and #2 options on championship teams are cut from a different cloth than everyone else. When you're a #3 option/role player you can afford to go with the flow. You can get by not forcing the issue. In fact if it's probably better for everyone that you do not force the issue. But when you're a #1 or #2 option, you are expected to take responsibility for the outcome of the game. It tells me a lot about these prospects when I watch them play and the game is slipping away and they are just out there playing their role.

I watched Baylor lose to Duke. Never once did I feel like Edgecombe was trying to take over the game. Granted the game wasn't close but it was almost like Edgecombe - on a subconscious level - understood that he was a role player. I have a hard time drafting someone with that mentality over a guy like Ace. One of the reasons I believe in Ace is because through his interviews, post game press conferences, mannerisms on the court I have concluded that Ace see's himself as that guy. When the team is struggling he wants the ball in his hands. When the game is on the line, he wants to be the one shooting the ball.

These are the guys that change cultures. When a team loses there's no laughter or joy in the locker room. When the team wins a playoff series, that guy lets it be known that the job isn't finished. This person doesn't measure their success or failure according to their stat line but according to their peers and to the great ones that came before them. Most of all, they are willing to work harder than anyone else on the team. Finding players with this mentality is way more important than what's actually happening on the court because 1) it's so rare and 2) they have the ability to change the direction of your organization.

Either an organization has a player like this or they are looking for a player like this. When I listen to Ace talk, when I see Ace play, I see a player at 18 who's taking responsibility for leading a college team. Did he struggle? Yes. Does he have to improve his game? Yes. But, what I care about is the mindset because with that kind of mindset comes a commitment to the work on your game that is way greater than your average role player. We have drafted a lot of guys over the years. Wall, Beal, Porter Jr, Brown Jr Rui Avdija, Bub, Sarr, George and many more. I have taken my time and watched them all. I have never seen any of them react to not getting the ball when the team is struggling the way Ace Bailey reacts. Ace is like a great WR who doesn't get the ball thrown to them. There's going to be problems. Maybe Wall would have reacted this way but he was the pg so the ball was already in his hands.