2020 Draft

[payitforward]

Sheppard saying small guards like Ish and Napier (and Thomas) put them at a disadvantage is hilarious. He's acting like he wasn't the one who brought them in.

"We need some size to help Thomas Bryant down low. Either through the draft or free agency. We need to get more bouncy and we need to add defense."

Yea, no ****. Headscratching statement from a guy who brought in undersized, non-defensive bigs in Rui and Bertans, and literally made the team smaller and defensively challenged at almost every position.

And trading up in this crapshoot draft is a horrible idea. This reeks of EFG's lingering stench.

Whoa there... easy now....

He got Bertans for (essentially) nothing -- that was a terrific move.

IT didn't work out, but there was nothing wrong with bringing him on at a vet minimum salary. The trade for Napier was a good one as well.

Tommy went into last off season having very little to work with. He did a great job overall.

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^^^100% agree. In a crapshoot draft like this, multiple picks is better than one, regardless of how high that one pick is.

In some sense, every draft is "a crapshoot." I wouldn't call this one out specifically.

Of the top 10 picked last year, exactly 2 guys (Morant & Hayes) actually had good seasons. Everyone else, even Zion, was less then stellar, & 6 of the ten were absolutely awful (Barrett, Hunter, Garland, Culver, White & Reddish). Was 2018 really a lot different? How many drafts are?

Overall, over history, after the first 3 picks the correlation between how good a player is & his pick-position drops rapidly. Thus, although anyone would rather have the #1 pick than the #4 & #5, it would usually be far better to have the #7 & #8 pick than the #4 -- & the better a FO is at making picks the truer that is!

Are there exceptions? Of course there are exceptions. But not all that many.

[prime1time]

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Sheppard saying small guards like Ish and Napier (and Thomas) put them at a disadvantage is hilarious. He's acting like he wasn't the one who brought them in.

"We need some size to help Thomas Bryant down low. Either through the draft or free agency. We need to get more bouncy and we need to add defense."

Yea, no ****. Headscratching statement from a guy who brought in undersized, non-defensive bigs in Rui and Bertans, and literally made the team smaller and defensively challenged at almost every position.

And trading up in this crapshoot draft is a horrible idea. This reeks of EFG's lingering stench.

You build a roster by getting players and filling your needs. Yes he bought Rui and Bertans in. Now he wants to get a player who's strengths compliment their weaknesses. Is that something to criticize? Unless you're bringing in a Giannis or a AD you are going to get players who are good at somethings and not good at others. So I must say I don't understand your criticism.

As far as criticizing trading up, it is obvious that the team has the eyes already set on one player or multiple players. No one talks about trading up to just trade up. They talk about trading up to get a specific player. So using his words you can easily limit the discussion of player to 3 or 4. Perhaps it would be better and more helpful to the conversation to discuss these players directly and explain why you don't like them, instead of criticizing the trading up strategy in general because it is a "weak" draft.

Personally I have no problem with trading up. We need size, athleticism and rim protection in the interior. If they see a guy they like I'd much rather them draft them and be 100% behind the kid.

[doclinkin]

Sifting through draft prospects my guys in the top 10 are Devin Vassell and Onyeka Okongwu. If either projects to fall to us I'm fine with sticking at 9. Both are high motor plus defenders who improve the team defense of any squad. Both add something we need at their position and should improve the guys next to them. Neither gives half effort on either side of the ball. Easy to cheer for, and good adds to any locker room.

[trast66]

Sifting through draft prospects my guys in the top 10 are Devin Vassell and Onyeka Okongwu. If either projects to fall to us I'm fine with sticking at 9. Both are high motor plus defenders who improve the team defense of any squad. Both add something we need at their position and should improve the guys next to them. Neither gives half effort on either side of the ball. Easy to cheer for, and good adds to any locker room.

Agree with analysis, both would be good picks & solid pros eventually. I am intrigued by Jahmius Ramsey.

[payitforward]

...Devin Vassell and Onyeka Okongwu. If either projects to fall to us I'm fine with sticking at 9....

Hard to argue with this -- especially Okongwu.

On another note -- I've never seen a draft with such widely different mock draft projections! Some mocks have Elijah Hughes in R1. Ditto Devon Dotson, Malachi Flynn, Isaiah Joe, Xavier Tillman & several others who are listed on other mocks as likely to go in the 40s. Weird!

[DCZards]

This is from The Athletic. It has the Zards getting Okongwu with the 9th pick, something a lot of us would like to see happen. Vassell, another favorite of many here, goes to Phoenix with the 10th pick. I've included the profiles of Okongwu and Vasell.

Vecenie: 2020 NBA Mock Draft 7.0

By Sam Vecenie Aug 20, 2020

1. Minnesota Timberwolves
Anthony Edwards
2. Golden State Warriors
James Wiseman
3. Charlotte Hornets
LaMelo Ball
4. Chicago Bulls
Isaac Okoro
5. Cleveland Cavaliers
Deni Avdija
6. Atlanta Hawks
Tyrese Haliburton
7. Detroit Pistons
Killian Hayes
8. New York Knicks
Obi Toppin

9. Washington Wizards
Onyeka Okongwu | 6-9 center | 19 years old, freshman | USC
Okongwu is an absolutely terrific defender at the center position who would fit really well within any defensive scheme. His rim protection is extremely high level despite his relative lack of size for the center position due to his vertical pop. But he can also play in a switching scheme, or one that involves more of a shell coverage, or flat coverage out on ball-screens. He’s very mobile and versatile. He’s a smart player offensively. He can rim run, and he’s unselfish with some ability to short roll into the midrange, or to play in the dunker spot. Okongwu was also extremely productive this year, averaging over 16 points, eight rebounds and three blocks while shooting over 60 percent from the field. The only true hole here is in regard to his jumper. He’s not really a shooter right now, which is something that would really help his game, given that I don’t think he’s a particularly instinctive passer or playmaker with ball in hand. Really, he’s just an exceptional play finisher around the rim right now with terrific defensive upside.

Okongwu could also be the perfect center pairing to mix with Thomas Bryant and Moe Wagner inside. Both of those guys are offense-first floor-spacers, whereas Okongwu is a power defense-first guy. Defensively, he can slide his feet on the perimeter, and his presence would really be helpful to John Wall as a rim-running threat that neither Bryant nor Wagner provide. He’s also the kind of high-character player that Tommy Sheppard has tried to look for since taking over, while also giving them a bit of an edge due to his motor and aggressiveness. This would be a major win for the Wizards.

10. Phoenix Suns
Devin Vassell | 6-5 wing | 19 years old, sophomore | Florida State
Vassell looks like a tremendous wing option. He’s a terrific off-ball defender who racks up steals and even provides a bit of a presence as a weak-side shot-blocker. He’s really smart at contesting shots on-ball. And as an offensive player, Vassell averaged 13 points in a Florida State offense that spread the wealth while shooting 41 percent from 3 and 49 percent from the field in general. He’s also a high-character kid who most teams trust to work on his game and keep improving. This wouldn’t exactly be a sexy pick. I think Vassell profiles best as a fifth starter on a good team, a guy who spaces the floor offensively and provides value on defense. But can you imagine pairing him with Mikal Bridges on the perimeter defensively? That would be a terror on defense, while allowing Devin Booker and Deandre Ayton to handle the offensive load.

Phoenix could very easily look to address the backcourt here. The Suns almost assuredly will be hoping one of Hayes or Haliburton will fall here.

[doclinkin]

...Devin Vassell and Onyeka Okongwu. If either projects to fall to us I'm fine with sticking at 9....

Hard to argue with this -- especially Okongwu.

Your guys at the Stepien are actually higher on Vassell than Okongwu.

[payitforward]

...Devin Vassell and Onyeka Okongwu. If either projects to fall to us I'm fine with sticking at 9....

Hard to argue with this -- especially Okongwu.

Your guys at the Stepien are actually higher on Vassell than Okongwu.

TBH, I can't figure out what's going on at that site. You must be finding something I can't find somehow. Their draft rankings only includes 12 guys. I see Okongwu in their Tier 2, but I don't see Vassell listed in either Tier 1 or 2 (...all there is).

I do find the nice article on him.

[dlts20]

^^^100% agree. In a crapshoot draft like this, multiple picks is better than one, regardless of how high that one pick is.

In some sense, every draft is "a crapshoot." I wouldn't call this one out specifically.

Of the top 10 picked last year, exactly 2 guys (Morant & Hayes) actually had good seasons. Everyone else, even Zion, was less then stellar, & 6 of the ten were absolutely awful (Barrett, Hunter, Garland, Culver, White & Reddish). Was 2018 really a lot different? How many drafts are?

Overall, over history, after the first 3 picks the correlation between how good a player is & his pick-position drops rapidly. Thus, although anyone would rather have the #1 pick than the #4 & #5, it would usually be far better to have the #7 & #8 pick than the #4 -- & the better a FO is at making picks the truer that is!

Are there exceptions? Of course there are exceptions. But not all that many.

LOL. Are you saying that Hayes was more stellar than Zion?

[payitforward]

Zion Williamson is an all-world talent. Barring injury, he seems likely to be a dominant NBA player for many, many years.

Now, tell me something -- do you have any idea, without looking it up, how many minutes Zion has played as a rookie?
Tell me another thing, without looking it up: how did Zion rebound as a rookie? Did he get a lot of boards?
Finally -- & again, please don't look this up -- as a rookie, did Zion Williamson have a problem with turnovers? If so, how much of a problem?

You don't know any of those things, do you?

& how many Pelicans games did you watch where Zion played any minutes at all?

You never watched a single one of them, did you?

Let me answer those questions for you:

1. Zion played @ 680 minutes. That's "less than stellar."
2. Zion got 9 rebounds per 40 minutes. That's a surprise to you. & it's "less than stellar."
3. Zion turned the ball over a lot for a big -- 3.6 times per 40 minutes -- about 65% more often than an average NBA big. "Less than stellar."
4. You never watched a single minute of the Pelicans with Zion playing this year.

In fact, you had no idea at all about how Zion Williamson played this year, did you?

Rinse & repeat for Jaxson Hayes. You have no idea how many minutes he played, how he rebounded, scored or did a single, solitary thing as a rookie; nor did you ever see him play.

But you do know how to type "LOL." That you know. Good for you! After all, anybody can be ignorant -- but not everybody can brag about it.

[doclinkin]

Hard to argue with this -- especially Okongwu.

Your guys at the Stepien are actually higher on Vassell than Okongwu.

TBH, I can't figure out what's going on at that site. You must be finding something I can't find somehow. Their draft rankings only includes 12 guys. I see Okongwu in their Tier 2, but I don't see Vassell listed in either Tier 1 or 2 (...all there is).

I do find the nice article on him.

They don't have a Big Board up yet. This is the breakdown of one of their writers.

https://www.thestepien.com/2020/02/10/onyeka-okongwu-scouting-report-2/
https://www.thestepien.com/2020/04/15/devin-vassell-scouting-report/

Watch on YouTube

[prime1time]

I would love to trade up for either Wiseman or Okongwu. Our defense has been a disaster since Nene and Okafor left. I give Wiseman the edge, so hopefully, he falls to the middle of the top 10 picks and we can make a move. I'd be fine with Okongwu also. Both players are very raw offensively, but in 3 or 4 years they could develop into very solid two players,

[payitforward]

Your guys at the Stepien are actually higher on Vassell than Okongwu.

TBH, I can't figure out what's going on at that site. You must be finding something I can't find somehow. Their draft rankings only includes 12 guys. I see Okongwu in their Tier 2, but I don't see Vassell listed in either Tier 1 or 2 (...all there is).

I do find the nice article on him.

They don't have a Big Board up yet. This is the breakdown of one of their writers.

https://www.thestepien.com/2020/02/10/onyeka-okongwu-scouting-report-2/
https://www.thestepien.com/2020/04/15/devin-vassell-scouting-report/

Thanks, doc -- I did read the 2 articles but maybe didn't get all the way through the Okongwu one -- or, at least, I didn't give enough attention to the final section.

You are right that this guy is higher on Vassell than on Okongwu (who he doesn't think merits a top-ten pick). I have no idea how to assess his analysis of either player, however, as I have no track record on him. I think he's new to the Stepien -- or am I wrong about that?

[prime1time]

TBH, I can't figure out what's going on at that site. You must be finding something I can't find somehow. Their draft rankings only includes 12 guys. I see Okongwu in their Tier 2, but I don't see Vassell listed in either Tier 1 or 2 (...all there is).

I do find the nice article on him.

They don't have a Big Board up yet. This is the breakdown of one of their writers.

https://www.thestepien.com/2020/02/10/onyeka-okongwu-scouting-report-2/
https://www.thestepien.com/2020/04/15/devin-vassell-scouting-report/

Thanks, doc -- I did read the 2 articles but maybe didn't get all the way through the Okongwu one -- or, at least, I didn't give enough attention to the final section.

You are right that this guy is higher on Vassell than on Okongwu (who he doesn't think merits a top-ten pick). I have no idea how to assess his analysis of either player, however, as I have no track record on him. I think he's new to the Stepien -- or am I wrong about that?

You may have posted this before but what are you thinking in terms fo your draft board? Any players that you like this year?

[FAH1223]

Spurs like Saddiq Bey... watch them take him and turn him into something more than what he's projected to be.

[TGW]

Spurs like Saddiq Bey... watch them take him and turn him into something more than what he's projected to be.

He's 6'8 with a handle, jumpshot, a positive ast/to ratio, and he's a solid defender. He's definitely a great piece of clay for someone like Pop.

[doclinkin]

I like both Beys, but agree Saddiq's catch and shoot game is a better fit next to Wall. Tyler Bey has some kind of a Shawn Marion matrix level pure athleticism thing though. He's fun to watch on defense.

[payitforward]

They don't have a Big Board up yet. This is the breakdown of one of their writers.

https://www.thestepien.com/2020/02/10/onyeka-okongwu-scouting-report-2/
https://www.thestepien.com/2020/04/15/devin-vassell-scouting-report/

Thanks, doc -- I did read the 2 articles but maybe didn't get all the way through the Okongwu one -- or, at least, I didn't give enough attention to the final section.

You are right that this guy is higher on Vassell than on Okongwu (who he doesn't think merits a top-ten pick). I have no idea how to assess his analysis of either player, however, as I have no track record on him. I think he's new to the Stepien -- or am I wrong about that?

You may have posted this before but what are you thinking in terms fo your draft board? Any players that you like this year?

I don't see any obvious blazing deals like Brandon Clarke last year -- those are rare. Not at #9 anyway (assuming Okongwu & Haliburton are gone).

But, off the numbers, it does look like there are some bargains to be had in the last 1/3 of R1 & at least the first handful of picks in R2. By bargains I mean guys with a genuine shot to be among the top 10 players out of the draft.

Jalen Smith, Desmond Bane, Tyler Bey, Josh Green, Vernon Carey & Paul Reed.

Further down but with really good numbers are Mason Jones, Xavier Tillman, Malachi Flynn & Nate Hinton.

Sam Merrill is a really interesting long shot.

I should say that I've been led to look at a lot of these guys by Ruzious, pcbothwei & a few others here.

What I don't see is a likely #9 pick much better than a #20 pick -- so, once again, I want to trade down.

[WallToWall]

As a 6'-9" center, do you think Okongwu is undersized for the position?