2012 NBA Draft

[pancakes3]

Fab Five? Phi Slamma Jamma?

[gesa2]

Fab Five? Phi Slamma Jamma?

We'd KILL those teams. Their players are all in their 40's and 50's by now.

Who do you think would win if you could put our current roster against UK's players as they will be in 3 years, after maturity and exposure to professional coaching?

[Mizerooskie]

There are people that think the Wizards wouldn't annihilate Kentucky? Seriously?

I'd wager the Wizards reserves would beat Kentucky the vast majority of the time.

PG: Shelvin Mack - Starting gaurd on not one, but TWO National runner-ups.
SG: Jordan Crawford - Averaged 20 points his sophomore year at Xavier. 3rd team AA and A-10 player of the year
SF: Chris Singleton - All-ACC and ACC Defensive player of the year
PF: Trevor Booker - All-ACC and ALL-ACC defensive team
C: Ronny Turiaf - WCC player of the Year.

[Ruzious]

This has been a little ridiculous, but fun. The potential of the collection of talent at Kentucky is impressive. But as has been already stated before, it is frankly silly to think that a professional team would not be heavily favored against a team like Kentucky. It does make for some fun conversation, and is rather depressing at the same time that the Wizards are this bad.

Yup, and think of it this way - 2 of the greatest players of all time - who were the top HS players of their class - and went straight to the pros - Kobe and KG - were just average players in their 1st year in the NBA. Davis and MKG are Kentucky's 2 best players - and they're freshmen. It's a given that if they were in the NBA this season, at best - they'd be average - MKG would most likely be below average. The rest of their roster would definitely be below average. I don't know if the Wiz would consistently destroy KY, but they'd be better - though given another year of experience... it's possible KY could be better.

[7-Day Dray]

Harrison Barnes and Austin Rivers are showing out on ESPN right now!!

[Ruzious]

Harrison Barnes and Austin Rivers are showing out on ESPN right now!!

And Rivers wins it in shocking fashion. UNC essentially dominated the game - they just fell asleep in the last few minutes. Great game. When 1 team makes 14 3's, and the other makes 1, which team is usually going to win?

Barnes showed a nice post-up game I didn't realize he had. And if anyone still has any doubts about Zeller, I don't know what they're watching. He will be a good starting center in the NBA. Rivers is on his way to being a helluva player.

[Nivek]

Wall would be dominating college ball if he'd stayed. If he went up against college kids now, it would seem like a joke to him.

Granted.

Young was an efficient scorer in college, and he's better now. He's been going up against far tougher defenders (and defensive schemes) than anything Kentucky could throw at him.

Jordan Crawford averaged 22 pts per game on 46% shooting in college.

This is definitely edge to the Wizards. I would say however that Kidd-Gilchrist would probably be the best bet to cover Young, and is a better defender at the wing than any current Wizard.

Kentucky doesn't have anyone who could contend with McGee's size and athleticism. McGee is averaging close to a double-double in the NBA.

Anthony Davis could easily check McGee. McGee wasn't an offensive force in college and he hasn't been in the pro's. I'm betting McGee's standing reach and wingspan aren't that superior to Davis and that his max vert reach isn't either. Davis is a generational defender with a high IQ. Lately McGee has been getting owned by pros that wouldn't be able to hold Davis' jockstrap the moment Davis steps on an NBA court.

Frigging N'diaye averaged 9 & 7 his senior year -- on 62% shooting from the floor. He can't even make the Wizards roster.

Meh. It's N'diaye. Would he even get minutes in this game?

Booker averaged 15 & 8 as a senior. He's better now. It may not look it because his competition is far better too. But he's better.

This is before you get to Blatche, who sucks in the NBA, but would dominate against college players -- even without getting in shape.

Blatche is terrible and Booker is okay. I think the tandem is a wash with Terrence Jones, who is longer than Booker with a more varied offensive game, and better than Blatche.

Chris Singleton was a 2-time ACC Defensive Player of the Year who averaged 13 & 7 his last year in college.

Not nearly as good as Kidd-Gilchrist

Shelvin Mack was the PG for a Butler team that went to 2 NCAA Finals.

Not as good as Teague.

Or Rashard Lewis, who would probably be the best 3pt shooter in college ball if he went back right now -- gimpy knee and all.

That is ridiculous. Lewis wouldn't even be better than NY. Lewis is averaging .259 from 3 this year. NY is shooting .377. FWIT, I think Doron would still be better from range than both. Lamb is averaging .478 from 3 this year on 4 attempts a game.

Seraphin would probably be an All-American.

Seraphin would be a tough check.

And you forgot Vesely, who played at a higher level of ball than the NCAA last year.

Seriously, we're used to looking at the current Wizards through the prism of them getting their asses kicked nightly. But these guys were terrific college players, and they're better now because they've been competing in the NBA, they've been spending waaaay more time being basketball players, and they've had better coaching.

I think you might look at things through a different prism as well. The Wizards have a collection of players that were good in college. Kentucky has a team. The Wizards aren't magically going to be able to shoot if they play Kentucky. They aren't going to magically start rotating and defending the rim. When you look at the starting five, Kentucky has comparable talent. Davis and Gilchrist are a better NBA duo than any two Wizards.

Wall >> Teague
Booker = Terrence Jones
NY > Lamb
Singleton < Gilchrist
McGee < Anthony Davis

The Wizards are a team too. Biggest reason they look so bad is that they're playing against NBA competition, which is vastly superior to anything in college. Transplant the Wizards -- exactly as they are this season -- to the NCAA and they're a Cat-5 super team. And yes, the Wizards would suddenly become better shooters against college players, because college teams don't defend as well. Their schemes aren't as good, they don't execute as well, they don't have the size, strength or athleticism of NBA players.

Kentucky has maybe 4 future NBA players on their roster. On any given night, they might face a team with 2-3 future NBA players. They almost never face an NBA-quality coaching staff.

I'm astonished that any serious basketball fan would think that a college team could compete with even the worst NBA team. There's a vast ocean of difference between the two levels.

[REDardWIZskin]

NBAdraft.net 's mock is like night and day compared to Draftexpress. They have us taking Jeremy Lamb at 3 over MKG, Robinson, Sully and pretty much everyone else. Harrison barnes at no 2

[llcc25]

Harrison Barnes and Austin Rivers are showing out on ESPN right now!!

And Rivers wins it in shocking fashion. UNC essentially dominated the game - they just fell asleep in the last few minutes. Great game. When 1 team makes 14 3's, and the other makes 1, which team is usually going to win?

Barnes showed a nice post-up game I didn't realize he had. And if anyone still has any doubts about Zeller, I don't know what they're watching. He will be a good starting center in the NBA. Rivers is on his way to being a helluva player.

+1 on Zeller. I've followed him all season long and have seen alot of his games this year. He's got all the fundamentals and skills you want in a big man (the things we've been waiting 4 years for McGee to develop). IMO he is light years ahead of McGee in properly playing the low post. The knock on him is his strength which will need to improve at next level, so some of you assume all he will be good only as a backup center. My counter to that is he will get stronger. Teams that draft him will put him in the weight room and get him stronger. This happens all the time. To me thats the easy part. What they don't have to worry about is teaching him the fundamentals of how to play the post. If he gets stronger which is a reasonable expectation, there is no reason that he can't be a solid starting center in this league given his skill level. So he is definitely worth drafting with mid first pick if we're able to swing a deal.

[Benjammin]

NBAdraft.net 's mock is like night and day compared to Draftexpress. They have us taking Jeremy Lamb at 3 over MKG, Robinson, Sully and pretty much everyone else. Harrison barnes at no 2

I don't know about its accuracy, but I rarely agree with nbadraft.net on much of anything so whatever they put out doesn't mean much to me.

[pcbothwel]

Harrison Barnes and Austin Rivers are showing out on ESPN right now!!

Barnes showed a nice post-up game I didn't realize he had. And if anyone still has any doubts about Zeller, I don't know what they're watching. He will be a good starting center in the NBA. Rivers is on his way to being a helluva player.

I have been beating the drum for Barnes for the last year and I will continue to do so. I hate it when people compare players as "rich-man" versions and completely ignore the fact that the "rich-mans" version might be a player on a whole other level.
I understand that people see a little Calbert Cheaney in him because of there similar size, mid range game,work-ethic and smooth athleticism. But thats where it stops. While both are good jump shooters, Barnes is a little better and has much better range. Also, Cheaney was about 6'7" and 210 when he came out at 22. Barnes measured at 6'8.5" when he was 18 and weighs 225lbs this year at 19. When you include the fact that he is also 2-3 inches(at least) longer its like comparing Chris Singleton/Tristan Thompson to Michael Finley/Stephen Jackson in terms of size.
Add to that the higher legvel of athletecism and the intertior game Barnes is developing and he is a whole other animal.
If we miss on Davis; Barnes, Robinson, MKG, and Beal are the guys I look at.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

NBAdraft.net 's mock is like night and day compared to Draftexpress. They have us taking Jeremy Lamb at 3 over MKG, Robinson, Sully and pretty much everyone else. Harrison barnes at no 2

I also look at NBA Draft Insider's mock. They update their picks tomorrow, but as of 1/26 they had the Wizards selecting second, and picking Thomas Robinson.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

In this upcoming draft, I think a few guys are really underrated.

John Jenkins of Vanderbilt is going to be a big time shooter/scorer.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla ... ins-1.html

Jenkins is a great pure shooter, has a good handle, is a good defender, and has led the SEC in scoring two straight years. Jenkins is 1st in NCAA made 3Pt shots. I believe he should be one guy the Wizards try to trade to get into round 1 to select. Jenkins is almost as cannot miss as it gets, literally. Every year I mention a guy who has talent to be a lottery pick, but who isn't a freak athlete. Jenkins is a basketball player who really has lottery pick skill level (see Jeremy Lin).

Damian Lillard of Weber State is likely the most underrated player in the draft.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla ... ard-1.html

Number one in the NCAA in points per game (25.5). Lillard is also first in the NCAA in PER. He leads his team (or is close) in rebounds as a 6'1" or so guard. He is seventh in the NCAA in 3PT% (.463). Plays at Webber State, otherwise he would get more ink. He seems to be a Kemba Walker type, but a better shooter from deep.

Kevin Jones of West Virginia is the Big East's version of Marshon Brooks, this year. He came out of nowhere to have a MONSTER senior season. If I were to stick to the way I usually do things, strictly trusting the numbers, I would say that Kevin Jones is on the same level as a prospect than Jared Sullinger.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla ... nes-5.html

Looking as rebounding, PER, and Win Share he is right up there atop the NCAA leader board along with Sullinger. What I love about Kevin Jones is he's a monster on the defensive glass.

I wish I could really spend some time on this, but this is enough for now. This draft is beyond rich in PFs. Haven't mentioned Ricardo Ratliffe, Arnett Moultrie, or Cody Zeller as underrated but they are IMO.

Also, tonight I am going to watch Hawaii play Nevada. The Warriors have a PF/C from Angola, Vander Joaquim, who is starting to show some serious potential.

[Ruzious]

Harrison Barnes and Austin Rivers are showing out on ESPN right now!!

Barnes showed a nice post-up game I didn't realize he had. And if anyone still has any doubts about Zeller, I don't know what they're watching. He will be a good starting center in the NBA. Rivers is on his way to being a helluva player.

I have been beating the drum for Barnes for the last year and I will continue to do so. I hate it when people compare players as "rich-man" versions and completely ignore the fact that the "rich-mans" version might be a player on a whole other level.
I understand that people see a little Calbert Cheaney in him because of there similar size, mid range game,work-ethic and smooth athleticism. But thats where it stops. While both are good jump shooters, Barnes is a little better and has much better range. Also, Cheaney was about 6'7" and 210 when he came out at 22. Barnes measured at 6'8.5" when he was 18 and weighs 225lbs this year at 19. When you include the fact that he is also 2-3 inches(at least) longer its like comparing Chris Singleton/Tristan Thompson to Michael Finley/Stephen Jackson in terms of size.
Add to that the higher legvel of athletecism and the intertior game Barnes is developing and he is a whole other animal.
If we miss on Davis; Barnes, Robinson, MKG, and Beal are the guys I look at.

Question (and I don't know the answer) - If Barnes measures as tall or taller than Robinson, does that go into the decision-making process on whether to choose Barnes or Robinson if you're picking 4th and Davis, MKG, and Drummond are off the board?

[tontoz]

I understand that people see a little Calbert Cheaney in him because of there similar size, mid range game,work-ethic and smooth athleticism. But thats where it stops. While both are good jump shooters, Barnes is a little better and has much better range.

Cal was a career 44% 3 point shooter in college. He shot 56% from the field. The only real advantage i see for Barnes is size.

Detroit won again last night. They have Gordon back now. Looks like the only real tank competition will be from the Cats and NOH.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Harrison Barnes and Austin Rivers are showing out on ESPN right now!!

Barnes showed a nice post-up game I didn't realize he had. And if anyone still has any doubts about Zeller, I don't know what they're watching. He will be a good starting center in the NBA. Rivers is on his way to being a helluva player.

I have been beating the drum for Barnes for the last year and I will continue to do so. I hate it when people compare players as "rich-man" versions and completely ignore the fact that the "rich-mans" version might be a player on a whole other level.
I understand that people see a little Calbert Cheaney in him because of there similar size, mid range game,work-ethic and smooth athleticism. But thats where it stops. While both are good jump shooters, Barnes is a little better and has much better range. Also, Cheaney was about 6'7" and 210 when he came out at 22. Barnes measured at 6'8.5" when he was 18 and weighs 225lbs this year at 19. When you include the fact that he is also 2-3 inches(at least) longer its like comparing Chris Singleton/Tristan Thompson to Michael Finley/Stephen Jackson in terms of size.
Add to that the higher legvel of athletecism and the intertior game Barnes is developing and he is a whole other animal.
If we miss on Davis; Barnes, Robinson, MKG, and Beal are the guys I look at.

Barnes has gotten better scoring inside, but he will be far less impactful at the next level than many, many players in this draft. Barnes does remind me of Cal Cheaney, but Barnes is a little quicker and bigger as you say. Barnes is more fluid and can take the ball end-to-end and finish. He is super smooth.

Barnes, however, is not a take-charge guy whose competitive fire burns so hot that it elevates others to play at a higher level. MKG is going to be a MUCH better pro IMO. Kidd Gilchrist plays defense at a whole different level. He rebounds better. He is a much better passer. He is an intense competitor who doesn't disappear on the court.

Barnes is smooth on offense. Better than MKG from midrange and outside by a lot. However, I will take MKG over him all day. I feel like Barnes about like I did John Wall. OF COURSE THE GUY CAN PLAY. However, I don't think he's going to transcend and be a great leader at the next level.

MKG is a natural leader IMO.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If you think I was hard on Barnes, I like him better than PJ III right now. I am sure Harrison Barnes is a solid shooter who can score at the rim and from deep. Perry Jones gets the least out of the most talent. He's Lamar Odom with a Kwame Brown mindset.

PJIII had 5 points in the loss to Kansas last night. Barnes has scored 6 or 8 points 4 or 5 other games this season. Jones is a very inconsistent rebounder. He's got a terrible AST/TO ratio--he doesn't get more than 1 AST per game. Jones is a poor three point shooter. PJIII is not a power player. PJIII is the single most overrated player I have seen is a long, long time.

[Ruzious]

In this upcoming draft, I think a few guys are really underrated.

John Jenkins of Vanderbilt is going to be a big time shooter/scorer.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla ... ins-1.html

Jenkins is a great pure shooter, has a good handle, is a good defender, and has led the SEC in scoring two straight years. Jenkins is 1st in NCAA made 3Pt shots. I believe he should be one guy the Wizards try to trade to get into round 1 to select. Jenkins is almost as cannot miss as it gets, literally. Every year I mention a guy who has talent to be a lottery pick, but who isn't a freak athlete. Jenkins is a basketball player who really has lottery pick skill level (see Jeremy Lin).

Just giving some of my views: I brought up Jenkins before as someone I'd like - but he's not a lotto pick talent, imo. I said he's Jody Meeks Part 2, and I still like that comp. What does he do better than Meeks?

Kevin Jones of West Virginia is the Big East's version of Marshon Brooks, this year. He came out of nowhere to have a MONSTER senior season. If I were to stick to the way I usually do things, strictly trusting the numbers, I would say that Kevin Jones is on the same level as a prospect than Jared Sullinger.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla ... nes-5.html

Looking as rebounding, PER, and Win Share he is right up there atop the NCAA leader board along with Sullinger. What I love about Kevin Jones is he's a monster on the defensive glass.

Thing is - for every question about Sullinger, it's double for Jones. He's short - there's no getting around it - or over it - speaking of which - the little moves he makes to get his inside shots over college kids just aren't going to work in the NBA. And I've watched a few WVU games this season - he's strictly a half court player - he never runs up court fast in transition. WVU almost never runs. I think he's a helluva college player with a winning attitude, but I don't see him being NBA starter material.

I wish I could really spend some time on this, but this is enough for now. This draft is beyond rich in PFs. Haven't mentioned Ricardo Ratliffe, Arnett Moultrie, or Cody Zeller as underrated but they are IMO.

I don't see Ratliffe belonging in the same category as Moultrie and either of the Zellers, and I wouldn't count on Cody coming out this year - He's the poster boy for Indy's comeback as one of the top programs in the country and probably wants to enjoy that experience while honing his craft. Ratliffe's got an amazing shooting percentage, but he's not a particularly prolific scorer or rebounder, and I question over-aged prospects (turns 23 this month) who have never done much before - especially with him being undersized for the NBA.

[pcbothwel]

Question (and I don't know the answer) - If Barnes measures as tall or taller than Robinson, does that go into the decision-making process on whether to choose Barnes or Robinson if you're picking 4th and Davis, MKG, and Drummond are off the board?

I've thought about that because they are both neck and neck to me. I think Barnes comes in at 6'7.5" w/o shoes and Robinson at 6'8.5" w/o shoes, so im not to worried about that. I need to see more of these guys going into the tourney before I can make a real judgement.
But I have said my prediction all along is that Barnes is a guy who is extremelly focused and sees the big picture. He is going with the flow of the team and trying to stay healthy. When the ACC tourney and March come around, I think the light is gonna trun on much like Kemba last year and your going to see some impressive performances from this kid.
With that said, I see much of the same in Robinson, MKG, Beal, and Davis. Any of these five guys would be welcome on ANY team i rooted for.

[Ruzious]

Question (and I don't know the answer) - If Barnes measures as tall or taller than Robinson, does that go into the decision-making process on whether to choose Barnes or Robinson if you're picking 4th and Davis, MKG, and Drummond are off the board?

I've thought about that because they are both neck and neck to me. I think Barnes comes in at 6'7.5" w/o shoes and Robinson at 6'8.5" w/o shoes, so im not to worried about that. I need to see more of these guys going into the tourney before I can make a real judgement.
But I have said my prediction all along is that Barnes is a guy who is extremelly focused and sees the big picture. He is going with the flow of the team and trying to stay healthy. When the ACC tourney and March come around, I think the light is gonna trun on much like Kemba last year and your going to see some impressive performances from this kid.
With that said, I see much of the same in Robinson, MKG, Beal, and Davis. Any of these five guys would be welcome on ANY team i rooted for.

Good stuff. I think you're right - March will be the big determinning factor for a bunch of the top prospects - particularly Barnes. My guess is that he and Robinson both measure a hair under 6'8 w/o shoes. Another height prediction - I think Ty Zeller's 7'1 with shoes - he's gotten bigger.