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2020 Draft

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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1181 » by Ruzious » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:09 pm

WallToWall wrote:As a 6'-9" center, do you think Okongwu is undersized for the position?

In the same way that Ben Wallace was and Bam Adebayo is. Okongwu isn't quite as explosive as either of them, but he has somewhat similar attributes.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1182 » by pcbothwel » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:24 pm

TGW wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:Spurs like Saddiq Bey... watch them take him and turn him into something more than what he's projected to be.


He's 6'8 with a handle, jumpshot, a positive ast/to ratio, and he's a solid defender. He's definitely a great piece of clay for someone like Pop.


Sorry, but Bey is very mediocre. While a very good shooter from 3 with a high IQ for spacing and team defense, he cannot create for himself or others, he lacks burst and doesnt offset that with high level coordination. He is old for his class, doesnt draw fouls, rebound, or show high level defense.

I get it... he has a high floor as a plug and play 3 & D wing (though the "D" portion is average), but you CANNOT take him over Nesmith, Tyler Bey, Vassell, Poku, or Okoro.

Vassell, to me, distinguishes himself as the best perimeter defender in the draft (Yes, he is a better defender than Okoro... anyone that states otherwise is simply looking at there tools and projecting into the future). He has a lot of Otto / Mikal Bridges to his game and seems like one of the few player with a high floor along with some growth potential.

Poku is the wild card. His age and IQ is simply off the charts and he has some statistical markers that are VERY reliable in projecting players:
STOCKS (Steals + Blocks): His ability to gather blocks and steals while keeping his fouls low is incredibly impressive.
AST:TOV: 2.5:1 Ratio also shows a player that sees the floor while not taking unnecessary risk.
FT%: 78% FT shooter for a 7'1 18 y/o shows a ton of projection as a shooter.
Reb: 12.2 Rbd/36 shows that he doesn't just float around on the perimeter and he has a high IQ. I.E. He reads the ball well

Looking at the tape will only double down on what the stats show. His hips/feet as quick on both sides of the court. Offensively, he moves very well and gets his feet set very quickly when in C&S situations.

Basically, he is Bonga, but with more offensive upside... And if you've been watching Bonga this last year, you know how players like that directly lead to winning.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1183 » by Ruzious » Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:55 pm

I'm not sure there is anyone to compare Poku to. At full growth, he's probably going to measure 7'2, and there just aren't players that tall and with his length (he's got long arms) that move like him and have that kind of body control. Granted, there will be a learning curve. He's played on the perimeter mostly, and as his body fills out, it'll probably make sense for him to play closer to the basket and learn more interior moves, spins, and finishes.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1184 » by payitforward » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:43 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
TGW wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:Spurs like Saddiq Bey... watch them take him and turn him into something more than what he's projected to be.


He's 6'8 with a handle, jumpshot, a positive ast/to ratio, and he's a solid defender. He's definitely a great piece of clay for someone like Pop.


Sorry, but Bey is very mediocre. While a very good shooter from 3 with a high IQ for spacing and team defense, he cannot create for himself or others, he lacks burst and doesnt offset that with high level coordination. He is old for his class, doesnt draw fouls, rebound, or show high level defense.

I get it... he has a high floor as a plug and play 3 & D wing (though the "D" portion is average), but you CANNOT take him over Nesmith, Tyler Bey, Vassell, Poku, or Okoro.

Vassell, to me, distinguishes himself as the best perimeter defender in the draft (Yes, he is a better defender than Okoro... anyone that states otherwise is simply looking at there tools and projecting into the future). He has a lot of Otto / Mikal Bridges to his game and seems like one of the few player with a high floor along with some growth potential.

Poku is the wild card. His age and IQ is simply off the charts and he has some statistical markers that are VERY reliable in projecting players:
STOCKS (Steals + Blocks): His ability to gather blocks and steals while keeping his fouls low is incredibly impressive.
AST:TOV: 2.5:1 Ratio also shows a player that sees the floor while not taking unnecessary risk.
FT%: 78% FT shooter for a 7'1 18 y/o shows a ton of projection as a shooter.
Reb: 12.2 Rbd/36 shows that he doesn't just float around on the perimeter and he has a high IQ. I.E. He reads the ball well

Looking at the tape will only double down on what the stats show. His hips/feet as quick on both sides of the court. Offensively, he moves very well and gets his feet set very quickly when in C&S situations.

Basically, he is Bonga, but with more offensive upside... And if you've been watching Bonga this last year, you know how players like that directly lead to winning.

This is a fantastic analysis -- thank you.

Where do you project Pokusevski to go? I'm not asking where you think he should go -- but where he is most likely to go.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1185 » by pcbothwel » Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:06 pm

He should go in the 8-12 range, but I think he drops to the late teens due to a few win now teams (Celtics, TWolves, PDX, Mavs, Nets, Heat).
But he is a fascinating prospect in that he seems like a Zion, Odom, Ben Simmons, Ball, Kyle Anderson, Draymond, Marcus Smart, etc. type prospect that will fill up the stat sheet on both ends of the court.

I think his floor is a Bonga/Nerlens Noel type hybrid player... but his ceiling is very high and very real.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1186 » by payitforward » Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:38 pm

My interest in this is b/c I'm trying to figure out whether we can trade down & still get him, while also coming away with another guy who is less "developmental." Hence some questions...
pcbothwel wrote:He should go in the 8-12 range, but I think he drops to the late teens due to a few win now teams (Celtics, TWolves, PDX, Mavs, Nets, Heat)....

Of those teams, only the Suns are in that 8-12 range. I wonder whether the Knicks' brand new FO team would have the balls to take a guy like Poku. The Kings also have a new FO, & ours is pretty new as well. I don't think Tommy will want to come away with a guy that probably isn't ready for heavy NBA minutes a few months from now; not sure he's secure enough in his job as it were. Plus, the focus seems to be -- inevitably/tunnel vision -- to supplement Wall/Beal. That said, I wonder whether he'll get past the Spurs.

The "late teens" is where he's mocked by guys who are high on him. To Portland at 16, even to Philly @#21. If he was there at Philly's pick, would you trade our #9 (we'd have picked, so let's assume they'd like the pick we'd made -- Devin Vassell, say...) for their #21 (i.e. Poku), their #34, & their R1 pick next year? That's a pretty fair trade in theory (i.e. just considering the pick positions).

I think there some very very high-probability successes will be on the board in the high '30s, which would somewhat mitigate the risk Poku may be said to bring with him. Even though...

pcbothwel wrote:...he is a fascinating prospect in that he seems like a Zion, Odom, Ben Simmons, Ball, Kyle Anderson, Draymond, Marcus Smart, etc. type prospect that will fill up the stat sheet on both ends of the court.

I think his floor is a Bonga/Nerlens Noel type hybrid player... but his ceiling is very high and very real.

Or, how might you go about securing him & at least one extra prospect who looks like a very high-probability bet to succeed.

Or... would you just take him at #9?
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1187 » by pcbothwel » Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:43 pm

payitforward wrote:My interest in this is b/c I'm trying to figure out whether we can trade down & still get him, while also coming away with another guy who is less "developmental." Hence some questions...
pcbothwel wrote:He should go in the 8-12 range, but I think he drops to the late teens due to a few win now teams (Celtics, TWolves, PDX, Mavs, Nets, Heat)....

Of those teams, only the Suns are in that 8-12 range. I wonder whether the Knicks' brand new FO team would have the balls to take a guy like Poku. The Kings also have a new FO, & ours is pretty new as well. I don't think Tommy will want to come away with a guy that probably isn't ready for heavy NBA minutes a few months from now; not sure he's secure enough in his job as it were. Plus, the focus seems to be -- inevitably/tunnel vision -- to supplement Wall/Beal. That said, I wonder whether he'll get past the Spurs.

The "late teens" is where he's mocked by guys who are high on him. To Portland at 16, even to Philly @#21. If he was there at Philly's pick, would you trade our #9 (we'd have picked, so let's assume they'd like the pick we'd made -- Devin Vassell, say...) for their #21 (i.e. Poku), their #34, & their R1 pick next year? That's a pretty fair trade in theory (i.e. just considering the pick positions).

I think there some very very high-probability successes will be on the board in the high '30s, which would somewhat mitigate the risk Poku may be said to bring with him. Even though...

pcbothwel wrote:...he is a fascinating prospect in that he seems like a Zion, Odom, Ben Simmons, Ball, Kyle Anderson, Draymond, Marcus Smart, etc. type prospect that will fill up the stat sheet on both ends of the court.

I think his floor is a Bonga/Nerlens Noel type hybrid player... but his ceiling is very high and very real.

Or, how might you go about securing him & at least one extra prospect who looks like a very high-probability bet to succeed.

Or... would you just take him at #9?


I should of clarified by saying I rank him in the top 10, but I could see him more like a 12-15 prospect to most, that would then fall further as some of the teams I mentioned in the 15-20 range are probably not as interested.

And yes, I would take him at 9.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1188 » by Ruzious » Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:57 pm

NBAdraft.net has Poku going 39th. There's a better chance that the Wiz win the 20/21 NBA championship than Poku doesn't get picked in the 1st round. I think he goes around 12th, but I also predict that this is a very unpredictable draft. :)
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1189 » by doclinkin » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:32 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
Vassell, to me, distinguishes himself as the best perimeter defender in the draft (Yes, he is a better defender than Okoro... anyone that states otherwise is simply looking at there tools and projecting into the future). He has a lot of Otto / Mikal Bridges to his game and seems like one of the few player with a high floor along with some growth potential.

Poku is the wild card. His age and IQ is simply off the charts and he has some statistical markers that are VERY reliable in projecting players:


With the Euro caveat. Euroleague players tend to suffer with fouls early in translating to the NBA. Still, I'm impressed with his smarts and evident situational awareness, suggesting he will make the adjustment. Plus he moves his feet well, he actually has a solid lower frame which will help him stay on his feet even if he never really adds much strength up to.

In the NBA his combination of height, scrawniness, and habit of defending while under the bucket instead of a step or two outside the cylinder will make him look like a perfect landing strip for dunk happy athletes. He can have all the verticality he wants, they're going straight through those upraised arms. And in the NBA much of how he currently defends will be an AND1 for the opponent.

Still, its his passing and heads up play that catch my attention. That and his surprisingly nimble feet. Decent shot. His handle is fine but in the NBA its less likely that he will be called to use it all that much. I like him on a trade down where we get additional value. I think it is a fair question which of his skills can translate, but smarts suggest he will make adjustments and find ways to contribute to whichever team he lands on. Yeah he will be a stretch-something, whatever position that is, I just have question marks about the ultimate utility of scrawny 'unicorn'-type players in the metagame. Aside from Giannis, who got big, and is a freak athlete, what team is dominating with a skinny face up perimeter giant?
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1190 » by Ruzious » Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:44 pm

doclinkin wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:
Vassell, to me, distinguishes himself as the best perimeter defender in the draft (Yes, he is a better defender than Okoro... anyone that states otherwise is simply looking at there tools and projecting into the future). He has a lot of Otto / Mikal Bridges to his game and seems like one of the few player with a high floor along with some growth potential.

Poku is the wild card. His age and IQ is simply off the charts and he has some statistical markers that are VERY reliable in projecting players:


With the Euro caveat. Euroleague players tend to suffer with fouls early in translating to the NBA. Still, I'm impressed with his smarts and evident situational awareness, suggesting he will make the adjustment. Plus he moves his feet well, he actually has a solid lower frame which will help him stay on his feet even if he never really adds much strength up to.

In the NBA his combination of height, scrawniness, and habit of defending while under the bucket instead of a step or two outside the cylinder will make him look like a perfect landing strip for dunk happy athletes. He can have all the verticality he wants, they're going straight through those upraised arms. And in the NBA much of how he currently defends will be an AND1 for the opponent.

Still, its his passing and heads up play that catch my attention. That and his surprisingly nimble feet. Decent shot. His handle is fine but in the NBA its less likely that he will be called to use it all that much. I like him on a trade down where we get additional value. I think it is a fair question which of his skills can translate, but smarts suggest he will make adjustments and find ways to contribute to whichever team he lands on. Yeah he will be a stretch-something, whatever position that is, I just have question marks about the ultimate utility of scrawny 'unicorn'-type players in the metagame. Aside from Giannis, who got big, and is a freak athlete, what team is dominating with a skinny face up perimeter giant?

I'll go with Tayshawn Prince as the closest comp that I can think of. Remember him at Kentucky, he was ultrathin back then. Needless to say, he was a key to the Pistons great defense - not just in support of Ben Wallace but in helping players like Rip Hamilton. Alexander AK47 Kirilenko would probably be the next closest I can think of. His best days were complementing the Mailman at Utah. Prince and AK47 were very effective complementary pieces on outstanding teams. Of course, neither was 7'2ish.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1191 » by payitforward » Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:48 am

pcbothwel wrote:
payitforward wrote:...would you just take him at #9?

...yes, I would take him at 9.

Just to make sure my question was clear & that I understand your response: are you saying that if you were the Wizards GM, then when our turn came to pick at #9, you would take Pokusevski with our pick?

Now, since you rate him "in the top 10," obviously there are at least some guys you'd take instead if they happened to fall to us at #9. So... who would you take above Pokusevski in this draft -- i.e. the guys who, if they are picked from 1-8, you hand in the card with Poku's name on it?
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1192 » by doclinkin » Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:05 am

Ruzious wrote:
what team is dominating with a skinny face up perimeter giant?

I'll go with Tayshawn Prince as the closest comp that I can think of. Remember him at Kentucky, he was ultrathin back then. Needless to say, he was a key to the Pistons great defense - not just in support of Ben Wallace but in helping players like Rip Hamilton. Alexander AK47 Kirilenko would probably be the next closest I can think of. His best days were complementing the Mailman at Utah. Prince and AK47 were very effective complementary pieces on outstanding teams. Of course, neither was 7'2ish.


Nothing like each other. Replay the Pistons Lakers series to see how Prince was guarding Kobe. His stance was so low he was effectively a 5'10" player -- with tape measure arms. The wide stance was hard to get around and his laterality combined with the long arms made him a threat on defense against both the pass and the shot. Poku by contrast, so far, stays upright. He's in the right place at the right time, and he's incredibly tall. That wingspan will measure short for his height, since much of his length is in the legs, and he has narrow shoulders. Devin Vassell is closer to Tayshaun than is Poku.

That said, playing basically as a 7' shooting guard on offense, he is remarkable to watch. Smart, smooth, in control, pretty passes. He drops the ball on a wind up for his jumper, which makes it guardable until he learns to catch and shoot overhead, but he's smart and young. And his feet are surprisingly nimble and active. I would not complain if he lands here. There is something special about his game. Until he gets some bulk he could slot in fine as a SF in the mold of a KD or the like. I'd still want some muscle and intimidating strength in the paint. He'd be fine in spot minutes sliding to defense underneath, rebounding agaisnt shorter mismatches, or coming in for weakside blocks. A good coach will find a role for him.

FWIW, I do think a team in the lotto will snatch him earlier than these late projections.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1193 » by Ruzious » Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:12 am

doclinkin wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
what team is dominating with a skinny face up perimeter giant?

I'll go with Tayshawn Prince as the closest comp that I can think of. Remember him at Kentucky, he was ultrathin back then. Needless to say, he was a key to the Pistons great defense - not just in support of Ben Wallace but in helping players like Rip Hamilton. Alexander AK47 Kirilenko would probably be the next closest I can think of. His best days were complementing the Mailman at Utah. Prince and AK47 were very effective complementary pieces on outstanding teams. Of course, neither was 7'2ish.


Nothing like each other. Replay the Pistons Lakers series to see how Prince was guarding Kobe. His stance was so low he was effectively a 5'10" player -- with tape measure arms. The wide stance was hard to get around and his laterality combined with the long arms made him a threat on defense against both the pass and the shot. Poku by contrast, so far, stays upright. He's in the right place at the right time, and he's incredibly tall. That wingspan will measure short for his height, since much of his length is in the legs, and he has narrow shoulders. Devin Vassell is closer to Tayshaun than is Poku.

That said, playing basically as a 7' shooting guard on offense, he is remarkable to watch. Smart, smooth, in control, pretty passes. He drops the ball on a wind up for his jumper, which makes it guardable until he learns to catch and shoot overhead, but he's smart and young. And his feet are surprisingly nimble and active. I would not complain if he lands here. There is something special about his game. Until he gets some bulk he could slot in fine as a SF in the mold of a KD or the like. I'd still want some muscle and intimidating strength in the paint. He'd be fine in spot minutes sliding to defense underneath, rebounding agaisnt shorter mismatches, or coming in for weakside blocks. A good coach will find a role for him.

FWIW, I do think a team in the lotto will snatch him earlier than these late projections.

That's true on their defensive fundamentals, but I wonder how much of that is because of what they were asked to do. In college, Tayshaun was much more of a shot-blocker than he was in the NBA. In the NBA, he defended much more on the perimeter and only blocked shots in his rookie year. He adjusted in the NBA to being more of a perimeter defender. Poku - while a perimeter player on offense, is a rim-protector on defense getting 4 to 5 blocks a game - and as such - plays more upright. But you're right in that Poku will not be the type of defender that Prince developed into.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1194 » by pcbothwel » Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:30 pm

payitforward wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:
payitforward wrote:...would you just take him at #9?

...yes, I would take him at 9.

Just to make sure my question was clear & that I understand your response: are you saying that if you were the Wizards GM, then when our turn came to pick at #9, you would take Pokusevski with our pick?

Now, since you rate him "in the top 10," obviously there are at least some guys you'd take instead if they happened to fall to us at #9. So... who would you take above Pokusevski in this draft -- i.e. the guys who, if they are picked from 1-8, you hand in the card with Poku's name on it?


The only players that would cause me reservation would be Okongwu, Hayes, Wiseman, Haliburton, Toppin, Edwards, Ball and Vassell.
Im low on Ball and think Toppin is a bad fit, but I would at least look at the trade environment for them.

I take Poku above Avdija, Hampton, Green, Bey, Okoro, Cole Anthony, etc.

Dream would be to trade with Boston for 14, 26, and 30.
14: Poku
26: Tyler Bey
30: Tre Jones
37: Tillman
UDFA: Mason Jones

Wall / Ish / T. Jones
Beal / Brown / M. Jones
Bonga / Bey / Schofield
Rui / Bertans / Poku
Bryant / Tillman / Wagner

But alas....
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1195 » by payitforward » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:35 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
payitforward wrote:...are you saying that if you were the Wizards GM, then when our turn came to pick at #9, you would take Pokusevski with our pick?...

The only players that would cause me reservation would be Okongwu, Hayes, Wiseman, Haliburton, Toppin, Edwards, Ball and Vassell.... Im low on Ball and think Toppin is a bad fit, but I would at least look at the trade environment for them.

Ok, so, let's assume that Okongwu, Hayes, Wiseman, Toppin, Edwards & Ball are virtually 100% to be gone when our #9 pick comes around, Avdija too. Either Vassell or Haliburton has to be there: you would take either one of them over Pokusevski. If (somehow) Okongwu is still there too, then it's one of those 3 guys not Poku whom you take.

But, if Toppin and/or Ball on the board, you would hope to trade the pick (to a team that wants one of them, obviously) for multiple picks that make you pretty certain you can get Poku a bit lower down (along w/ something else, obviously).

If, somehow, Vassell, Haliburton & Okongwu are all gone, & you can't trade Toppin/Ball (obviously still available if those other guys are gone!) the way you want... then you take Pokusevski @#9.

Perfectly clear, thanks. The most likely guy in that group to be there is Vassell -- at least that's what one would think based on the mock drafts all over the net. In fact, it seems very likely that he'll be there. So, your most likely pick might be Vassell.

In that case, leaving aside unlikely changes in who's picked 1-8, your pick at #9 is Vassell, unless Haliburton is there in which case... do you take him instead? If both are gone, you take Poku.

But, really, Toppin/Ball will be gone, & Vassell will be there -- so... in truth, he's your pick not Pokusevski.

Rinse & repeat for Haliburton. &, I assume, for Okongwu as well.

Poku is your #4 choice given possible happenings. Even though you seem higher on him than anyone else in the draft.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1196 » by payitforward » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:54 pm

As to that trade dream...
pcbothwel wrote:Dream would be to trade with Boston for 14, 26, and 30.
14: Poku
26: Tyler Bey
30: Tre Jones
37: Tillman
UDFA: Mason Jones

...sign me up! :) Five rookies -- a man after my own heart!!!!!

But, I don't think we could even get #14 & #26 for #9!

Now... I do think Boston would give us #14 & #30 for #9. Would you do that? They also have the #47. Maybe we could talk them into throwing it in? Then buy #34 from Elton Brand.

Still some chance we get Bey @#30 (maybe...?). If so, then at #34 take Malachi Flynn? Bolmaro? Maledon? If we missed on Bey, take Paul Reed if he's still there. Then use #47 to take Mason Jones (I wouldn't count on him going undrafted...). Sign Nate Hinton undrafted. Or Sam Merrill.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1197 » by pcbothwel » Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:53 pm

payitforward wrote:As to that trade dream...
pcbothwel wrote:Dream would be to trade with Boston for 14, 26, and 30.
14: Poku
26: Tyler Bey
30: Tre Jones
37: Tillman
UDFA: Mason Jones

...sign me up! :) Five rookies -- a man after my own heart!!!!!

But, I don't think we could even get #14 & #26 for #9!

Now... I do think Boston would give us #14 & #30 for #9. Would you do that? They also have the #47. Maybe we could talk them into throwing it in? Then buy #34 from Elton Brand.

Still some chance we get Bey @#30 (maybe...?). If so, then at #34 take Malachi Flynn? Bolmaro? Maledon? If we missed on Bey, take Paul Reed if he's still there. Then use #47 to take Mason Jones (I wouldn't count on him going undrafted...). Sign Nate Hinton undrafted. Or Sam Merrill.


I know they are a terrible franchise, but the precedent is the Kings trade a few years ago when they moved back from 10 to get 15 & 20 (They picked up Giles @ 20). To me, that means 9 = 14 + 20-22... but they only have 26, so they make up the value difference with 30.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1198 » by payitforward » Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:36 pm

pcbothwel wrote:... the precedent is the Kings trade a few years ago when they moved back from 10 to get 15 & 20 (They picked up Giles @ 20). To me, that means 9 = 14 + 20-22... but they only have 26, so they make up the value difference with 30.

That was a steal, yes, an astonishingly bad move by Neil Olshey -- who has also made some terrific moves (& still has his job). & a great one by Sac'to -- one of only a few!

But... it's a one-off. Show me another equivalent.

Obviously, there's no official chart of the relative value of draft picks. & of course, individual circumstances can dictate all kinds of individual cases. But here are some graphs to illustrate my point: http://nbasense.com/draft-pick-trade-value/compare-charts.

Of these, only one (Restifo's 2016 chart) would accommodate a trade of 9 for 14 & 26 -- that's because his view of a slow decline from 1 to 10 is unrealistic (using his chart you should be able to give the #5 & #22 picks for the #1 pick -- no).

The most recent of these work-ups is Pelton's 2d version: http://nbasense.com/draft-pick-trade-value/2/kevin-pelton-2.

Of course, how badly the party moving up (usually) wants the guy at the higher pick can distort values in individual cases. If there's someone Boston must must have, then perhaps they'd give the #26 to move up 5 places. But... I doubt it. & 14,26 & 30 to move up 5 places?
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1199 » by Ruzious » Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:51 pm

Maybe the worst draft day trade ever was in 1998. Bucks traded 9 and 19 for 6. Oh, the pain. Yes, the Pat Garrity trade.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1200 » by pcbothwel » Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:00 pm

payitforward wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:
payitforward wrote:...are you saying that if you were the Wizards GM, then when our turn came to pick at #9, you would take Pokusevski with our pick?...

The only players that would cause me reservation would be Okongwu, Hayes, Wiseman, Haliburton, Toppin, Edwards, Ball and Vassell.... Im low on Ball and think Toppin is a bad fit, but I would at least look at the trade environment for them.

Ok, so, let's assume that Okongwu, Hayes, Wiseman, Toppin, Edwards & Ball are virtually 100% to be gone when our #9 pick comes around, Avdija too. Either Vassell or Haliburton has to be there: you would take either one of them over Pokusevski. If (somehow) Okongwu is still there too, then it's one of those 3 guys not Poku whom you take.

But, if Toppin and/or Ball on the board, you would hope to trade the pick (to a team that wants one of them, obviously) for multiple picks that make you pretty certain you can get Poku a bit lower down (along w/ something else, obviously).

If, somehow, Vassell, Haliburton & Okongwu are all gone, & you can't trade Toppin/Ball (obviously still available if those other guys are gone!) the way you want... then you take Pokusevski @#9.

Perfectly clear, thanks. The most likely guy in that group to be there is Vassell -- at least that's what one would think based on the mock drafts all over the net. In fact, it seems very likely that he'll be there. So, your most likely pick might be Vassell.

In that case, leaving aside unlikely changes in who's picked 1-8, your pick at #9 is Vassell, unless Haliburton is there in which case... do you take him instead? If both are gone, you take Poku.

But, really, Toppin/Ball will be gone, & Vassell will be there -- so... in truth, he's your pick not Pokusevski.

Rinse & repeat for Haliburton. &, I assume, for Okongwu as well.

Poku is your #4 choice given possible happenings. Even though you seem higher on him than anyone else in the draft.


You pretty much nailed it... I have Haliburton, Vassell, Okongwu, and Poku all in the same tier... so even if a like A a little more than B, it’s all the same valuation.
I think Okongwu and one of Vassell or Haliburton will be gone.

It comes down to what we value:
Do we want Malcom Brogdan / Lonzo Ball (Haliburton)?…a low usage, high IQ, good defender, great C&S guard that has trouble creating, drawing fouls, and shooting off the bounce due to limited tools and low shot.

Do we want Mikal Bridges / Otto / Danny Green / Josh Richardson (Vassell)?… elite 3&D wing that can guard the other team’s best wing, shoot efficiently from everywhere and provide leadership and rebounding… but limited ball handling, athleticism

Do we want Montrez Harrell / Richaun Holmes / Brandon Clarke (with Bam upside)? … High Motor, efficient, undersized Center with great hands/instincts on defense… but limited vision and shooting range.

Or… do we make the upside play with Poku? One of the most intriguing and unusual prospects in some time considering his physical profile, tools, and lack of scouting info available.

As I have said, His STOCKS, AST:TOV ratio, rebounding, and overall skillset is tantalizing. When you watch him handle the ball, move, push the break, etc…. there is only one player that I can think of: Kevin Durant. No, he doesn’t shoot NEARLY as well at this point. But his frame and high-level coordination are almost identical.

And while his shooting is only mediocre right now, his ability to come off a pick and get his feet balanced is extremely impressive.
Now, his frame/strength is a real concern. It shows up in his inability to finish at the basket as well as on-ball defense. He can also be a little too caviler/careless for a guy that is really too smart to do so, but he is the youngest player in the draft…so I think that changes.

As for a comp…wow, its not easy. But he has the Jokic/Jontay Porter/Draymond type of skills & awareness that seems so invaluable in the league today… For the downside, I see Josh McRoberts/Ethan Happ (kinda random, but it just fits somehow). Smart, sees the floor, good scorer on the move/playmaker that rebounds, but questionable defender on True Bigs and doesn’t score efficiently.

Okongwu is clearly best player, but his overall impact on the game may be the most limited of the 4 due to positional value along with passing & Shooting limitations. There also appears to be an interesting group of bigs later in the draft (Carey, Tillman, Oturu).

Vassell would be the best fit in that he slides right in the 2nd unit with Ish & Brown as the 3 & D specialist.

Poku is the wild card who has the tremendous upside, but most questions and longer timeline.

Haliburton is fascinating as he can play off Wall or Beal as the secondary ball handler that spreads the floor and would allow us to trade either in the next two years.

I would be happy with either of the 4 though.

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