Political Roundtable/Black hole of doom Part Deux

[pineappleheadindc]

Jeebus H. Christmas.

Let the guy from Hawaii settle this birther b.s. for all of you (regardless of whether you believe them or not).

1. That "Certificate of Live Birth" that Obama trotted out. THAT'S WHAT THE STATE OF HAWAII DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH GIVES YOU WHEN YOU ASK FOR YOUR BIRTH CERTIFICATE. NOBODY HAS THE SO-CALLED "LONG FORMS" THAT BIRTHERS ARE DEMANDING. REPEAT: IF YOU'RE BORN IN HAWAII AND ASK THE STATE FOR A BIRTH CERTIFICATE, THEY GIVE YOU THE "CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH".

2. Sorry for shouting. But really, can people be this abjectly stupid? Morons. Imbeciles. Idiots.

3. Up until 2010, the Governor of Hawaii was a Republican who, in 2008, backed John McCain. SHE said Obama was born there.

4. She - Linda Lingle, the Republican former Governor of Hawaii - was elected by...well, you'd imagine more than a few Republicans since she WON her election. That's hundreds of thousands of voters who voted for her. If so...

5. ....why doesn't the GOP organize all of the Republicans in Hawaii to have a big ol' picnic in Kapiolani Park and all of the locally-born Republicans bring their "long forms" out to the picnic and hold them up for a big ol' group photo. Why? BECAUSE ALL OF THE LOCALLY-BORN REPUBLICANS WHO ASK THE STATE OF HAWAII FOR THEIR BIRTH CERTIFICATES GET A "CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH". That's why.

WTF - I can't believe that a MAJORITY of Republicans are birthers via poll. (http://is.gd/0jJFM6). What the hell is freaking wrong with the Republican party? It's like the majority of a group thinking that the world is flat. Or that the Earth is only 6,000 years old and that humans and dinosaurs used to frolic around like in the Flintstones.

SMH in total frustration at the lack of commitment to a fact-driven life by a whole lotta people.

[hands11]

Even the Pope has publically stated the evilution is true and it is common knowledge that the book of revolation is dunk. No educated Christian takes to Bible in it's entirity. Every "religion" is flowed. So is everly religious book. They are no written by God, they are written by man.

It's about spirituality.. It's about not being selfish. It about how we are connected, not how we are different.

As an educated Christian man who has spent significant time in both secular and faith-based universities, I have no trouble taking the Bible in its entirety. Bibliology is actually one of my favorite subjects of study, especially the textual transmission of different manuscript variants.

Also, the idea that all religion is flawed supposes one of two things. First, that there if there is a god and objective truth about him, said god is incapable of communicating that truth to humans. (Pretty pathetic deity, really). Second, that there is no objective truth and everyone is wrong.

I don't object to you having such an opinion (though I believe you are incorrect, of course ^_^ ), but I do object to opinions stated as irrevocable fact - especially without supporting evidence.

I agree that spirituality is important. I believe the basis of that spirituality is significant, though, as what you believe about the nature of the universe will change how you respond to the world and the people in it. As a side note, if anyone wishes to discuss creationism and evolution, I am perfectly willing to have a PM conversation. I avoid that in forums, though, as those topics tend to draw a great deal of passion and mudslinging that makes calm discourse difficult at best.

I have a feeling a would enjoy have a conversation with you about these things. You seem to be a respectful and intelligent person.

Just to comment on something you said. I don't think the position you took saying that God is flowed if he can't communicate the truth as true to the masses. The way I take what you said is this.

There are popular documents out there written by man that claim to be the word of God. Popularity does not equate Gods true. There is a common thread of truth in many documents. But all of them are flawed. Why. They are written by man and man is not able to be a perfect reflection of God. We can have moments. But that is it.

The most pure truth that I have experience is something I have experienced. It is statements. it is a feeling. I actually had one today. It is not a book word for word.

I have these moments some times more then others and when they happen, sometimes they are very strong. I know them to be what they are. But if you meet me, you wouldn't likely see me as that type of person but I don't speak a doctrine. I don't wear it on my sleeve per say. But I do experience it and I do live it when I feel it. I can't help but do it. It is who I am. I know there is God. I experience it some through religion. But I also experience things I find very un God through religion also.

[hands11]

I understand barelyawake's point. I just reject it. He's basically saying that vouchers only work in socialist utopias and they won't work in capitalistic societies. He has no evidence to suggest this is true, only his gut feelings based on hatred for capitalism and love for socialism.

You seem to be taking the position like someone has something to prove to you but when reading through this thread, you are the one who seems to be missing what people are saying. You may have some respect on basketball topics but that doesn't translate to every topic.

[hands11]

There's confusion over the "natural born" part. The natural interpretation of that is that you have to be born a U.S. citizen, not be a naturalized citizen. But birthers argue that "natural born" means "born on U.S. soil," which is why they make such a big deal about Obama's birth certificate -- they claim he was born in Kenya, and therefore was not born on U.S. soil. But according to that argument, John McCain is not a natural born citizen, because he was born in Panama.

If I understand the way this works, the Supreme Court has been throwing out all these birther lawsuits because to them it's so obvious that "natural born citizen" means "citizen from birth," in which case having a U.S. parent is all you need to qualify.

As far as I've seen, there's no tradition of granting "natural-born" status to children born outside of U.S. soil that have one American parent. There's a logic to that; if the child has only one American parent, then why isn't the child just as tied to the other parent's nationality? Born on U.S. soil tips the scales regardless. Born off of U.S. soil to two U.S. parents is another ambiguous area (unreasonably so, but it is) and there's no tradition of automatically granting "natural-born" status there either. Of course, the latter would easily be considered a U.S. citizen, and the former would likely almost as easily, but were someone born under those circumstances to run for president, there would be protests tied to tradition.

John McCain was born to two U.S. parents on a U.S. military base in the Panama Canal Zone. Tradition has long (if not always) considered both U.S. bases and U.S. administered territories to be U.S. territory, just as U.S. embassies are considered U.S. territory. Anyone born under any of these circumstances would be considered "natural born," and McCain cleverly combined two in his birth. He was thinking ahead. Based on the evidence I've seen, he's pretty clearly "natural born."

Trump's claim that Obama's birth announcements in Hawaiian papers might have been planted in order to insure his U.S. citizenship (wait a minute, it wasn't to insure that he could one day run for president?) are so silly. If he was born in Kenya, he would not have been considered "natural born" (unless he was born at the U.S. embassy) but he could easily have become a U.S. citizen, because he had a native born U.S. citizen mother. Based on the evidence I've seen, he's pretty clearly "natural born."

The biggest con is not Obama hiding his true birth place. The biggest con is not trying to convince people that Obama is hiding his true birth place. That people are wasting their time thinking about this, when there are so many real issues out there...that's the biggest con.

PS: I've never given it much thought, but I'm not sure there couldn't be a great president that was not "natural born." Well, if there were a great president.

Sorry but that is just silly. Are you saying if I was in another country and I got a women pregnant from there that my child would not be an American but if I knocked her up in the US, it would be. Actually, the way you are saying it, it doesn't even matter where the act happened. I just matter where the baby popped out.

That makes no sense. My child regardless of who I had it with or where it was born would be an American. I may be something else also but it would be an American.

[nate33]

I don't even understand enough about the legal nuances between an "original birth certificate" and "certificate of live birth" to have an opinion on this matter. But one thing strikes me as odd:

The Director of the Hawaii State Department of Health has told the media in no uncertain terms that she has seen the original birth certificate:

"I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago...."

Seems pretty black and white to me. But if this is true, why not show it to the media? Why, after three years, have we not seen one copy of the original birth certificate?

One of the following is true: Either Fukino is lying and there is no original birth certificate; or the Obama administration is deliberately withholding the document as a political tactic to try and destroy any conservatives who claim to be birthers. Either possibility is somewhat disquieting.

[Nivek]

I don't even understand enough about the legal nuances between an "original birth certificate" and "certificate of live birth" to have an opinion on this matter. But one thing strikes me as odd:

The Director of the Hawaii State Department of Health has told the media in no uncertain terms that she has seen the original birth certificate:

"I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago...."

Seems pretty black and white to me. But if this is true, why not show it to the media? Why, after three years, have we not seen one copy of the original birth certificate?

One of the following is true: Either Fukino is lying and there is no original birth certificate; or the Obama administration is deliberately withholding the document as a political tactic to try and destroy any conservatives who claim to be birthers. Either possibility is somewhat disquieting.

If you consider FactCheck.org to be media, then the media has been shown the birth certificate. Their people saw it, touched it and photographed it. http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008 ... e_usa.html

[nate33]

Nivek, the way I read that is that Fact Check was talking about the Certificate of Live Birth, not the Original Birth Certificate. I get that impression because they said the certificate was at Obama headquarters in Chicago, whereas the Original Birth Certificate is somewhere in the Hawaii archives:

In an attempt to quash persistent rumors that President Obama was not born in Honolulu on Aug. 4, 1961, Hawaii's health director reiterated Monday afternoon that she has personally seen Obama's birth certificate in the Health Department's archives

In 2001, Hawaii's paper documents were reproduced in electronic format, but "any paper data prior to that still exists," Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo said.

Okubo would not say where Obama's original birth certificate is but said, "We have backups for all of our backups."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... waii_N.htm

[nate33]

I understand barelyawake's point. I just reject it. He's basically saying that vouchers only work in socialist utopias and they won't work in capitalistic societies. He has no evidence to suggest this is true, only his gut feelings based on hatred for capitalism and love for socialism.

You seem to be taking the position like someone has something to prove to you when reading throw this thread, you are the one who seems to be missing what people are saying. You may have some respect on basketball topics but that doesn't translate to every topic.

Let's review:

Zonker brought up the issue of education in our society as a fundamental problem that must be addressed before other problems can be tackled.

I agreed with his points and suggested that our system is broken and voucherization would be a way to fix it.

Barelyawake jumped in and suggested that voucherization would be a bad idea. There was "no doubt in his mind" that it would lead to creationist schools run by Wal Mart teaching courses in how to operate a cash register. (This seems to be pretty wild conjecture for someone who has no doubt in his mind, but we'll get to that later.)

I responded with a well-referenced, factual post supporting school vouchers citing evidence of other countries' experience.

Barelyawake responds with a snarky post about how I want to imitate Sweden, and then makes an entirely unsupported case about how vouchers only work because Sweden is unionized, highly-taxed country.

I asked, "What does that have to do with their educational system?"

Barelyawake launches a diatribe about how creationism would be "forced on large swaths of America"; how corporations run slave plantation in our prisons, and how corporations would exploit the youths of America in schools. I'll add that Barelyawake made the first personal attack by saying "I absolutely knew you wouldn't get the cause and effect".

I, rather shocked at his visceral attitude toward our society, observed that Barelyawake hates free market capitalism and that we wouldn't find any common ground.

Barelyawake accuses me of avoiding the issue three times. I don't know how "the issue" became the concept of creationist schools, but I went ahead and addressed him on the subject. Next thing I know, he is accusing me of namecalling, and you are accusing me of missing what people are saying.

[Nivek]

Nivek, the way I read that is that Fact Check was talking about the Certificate of Live Birth, not the Original Birth Certificate. I get that impression because they said the certificate was at Obama headquarters in Chicago, whereas the Original Birth Certificate is somewhere in the Hawaii archives:

In an attempt to quash persistent rumors that President Obama was not born in Honolulu on Aug. 4, 1961, Hawaii's health director reiterated Monday afternoon that she has personally seen Obama's birth certificate in the Health Department's archives

In 2001, Hawaii's paper documents were reproduced in electronic format, but "any paper data prior to that still exists," Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo said.

Okubo would not say where Obama's original birth certificate is but said, "We have backups for all of our backups."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... waii_N.htm

I thought Pine addressed that issue extremely well above.

... IF YOU'RE BORN IN HAWAII AND ASK THE STATE FOR A BIRTH CERTIFICATE, THEY GIVE YOU THE "CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH...

The issue has been addressed to the satisfaction of all but a few nuts. At some point, it's time to move on to more important issues. In this case, that time was in 2008.

[DCZards]

I don't even understand enough about the legal nuances between an "original birth certificate" and "certificate of live birth" to have an opinion on this matter. But one thing strikes me as odd:

The Director of the Hawaii State Department of Health has told the media in no uncertain terms that she has seen the original birth certificate:

"I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago...."

Seems pretty black and white to me. But if this is true, why not show it to the media? Why, after three years, have we not seen one copy of the original birth certificate?

One of the following is true: Either Fukino is lying and there is no original birth certificate; or the Obama administration is deliberately withholding the document as a political tactic to try and destroy any conservatives who claim to be birthers. Either possibility is somewhat disquieting.

I don't think that Fukino is lying nor do I think its a political tactic--though that does make some sense. I prefer to believe it's the Obama Administration saying "screw you" to the birthers. Letting the birthers know that Obama is not going to give in to them and their silly games by reacting to their "Where's your birth certificate?" foolishness. Have other U.S. presidents had to show their "original birth certificate?" I doubt it.

[nate33]

I thought Pine addressed that issue extremely well above.

... IF YOU'RE BORN IN HAWAII AND ASK THE STATE FOR A BIRTH CERTIFICATE, THEY GIVE YOU THE "CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH...]

The issue has been addressed to the satisfaction of all but a few nuts. At some point, it's time to move on to more important issues. In this case, that time was in 2008.

I don't disagree with you or Pine. The Certificate of Live Birth is enough for me. Even if the birther theory is true and he was actually born in Kenya and then his family rushed him to the U.S. afterwards, I don't see how it makes any difference. One either believes that Obama has America's best interests at heart, or one doesn't. It doesn't really matter where he spent the first few days of his life. It's a technicality.

[nate33]

I don't think that Fukino is lying nor do I think its a political tactic--though that does make some sense. I prefer to believe it's the Obama Administration saying "screw you" to the birthers. Letting the birthers know that Obama is not going to give in to them and their silly games by reacting to their "Where's your birth certificate?" foolishness. Have other U.S. presidents had to show their "original birth certificate?" I doubt it.

Good post, DCZards. I hadn't considered that.

I can see some logic in this.

[montestewart]

Wikipedia has a page on "natural born" citizens
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_bo ... ted_States
Looks like a pretty long and confusing history

[montestewart]

As far as I've seen, there's no tradition of granting "natural-born" status to children born outside of U.S. soil that have one American parent. There's a logic to that; if the child has only one American parent, then why isn't the child just as tied to the other parent's nationality? Born on U.S. soil tips the scales regardless. Born off of U.S. soil to two U.S. parents is another ambiguous area (unreasonably so, but it is) and there's no tradition of automatically granting "natural-born" status there either. Of course, the latter would easily be considered a U.S. citizen, and the former would likely almost as easily, but were someone born under those circumstances to run for president, there would be protests tied to tradition.

John McCain was born to two U.S. parents on a U.S. military base in the Panama Canal Zone. Tradition has long (if not always) considered both U.S. bases and U.S. administered territories to be U.S. territory, just as U.S. embassies are considered U.S. territory. Anyone born under any of these circumstances would be considered "natural born," and McCain cleverly combined two in his birth. He was thinking ahead. Based on the evidence I've seen, he's pretty clearly "natural born."

Trump's claim that Obama's birth announcements in Hawaiian papers might have been planted in order to insure his U.S. citizenship (wait a minute, it wasn't to insure that he could one day run for president?) are so silly. If he was born in Kenya, he would not have been considered "natural born" (unless he was born at the U.S. embassy) but he could easily have become a U.S. citizen, because he had a native born U.S. citizen mother. Based on the evidence I've seen, he's pretty clearly "natural born."

The biggest con is not Obama hiding his true birth place. The biggest con is not trying to convince people that Obama is hiding his true birth place. That people are wasting their time thinking about this, when there are so many real issues out there...that's the biggest con.

PS: I've never given it much thought, but I'm not sure there couldn't be a great president that was not "natural born." Well, if there were a great president.

Sorry but that is just silly. Are you saying if I was in another country and I got a women pregnant from there that my child would not be an American but if I knocked her up in the US, it would be. Actually, the way you are saying it, it doesn't even matter where the act happened. I just matter where the baby popped out.

That makes no sense. My child regardless of who I had it with or where it was born would be an American. I may be something else also but it would be an American.

You might not agree with it, but as I see it, it makes sense for two reasons: 1) recall that "citizenship" and "natural born citizenship" are not identical--the idea of "natural born" has long been used to insure that no U.S. president has an allegiance to a foreign power. In this view, born on U.S. soil (regardless of parentage) generally confers an assumption of greater allegiance to the United States; 2) As far as I know, the United States does not recognize dual-citizenship. If a child is born abroad to at least one U.S. citizen, the child could be a U.S. citizen, but the citizenship is not automatically granted. What if the parents do not want the child to be a U.S. citizen? If the child, as an adult, wanted to become a U.S. citizen, I assume proving one U.S. citizen parent would make that path easier, but I have no idea what laws and cases say about that.

Imagine a child born in Moscow to a Russian spy, and raised by the Russian spy to hate the United States and all it stands for. Now imagine that child showing up as an adult in the U.S. with proof that a careless U.S. diplomat was the father, claiming to be a citizen because of his U.S. parent, with no other ties to the U.S. than an ingrained hatred of the U.S. Are you saying we certify the bad seed because of the dumb seed years earlier? I can see an argumant against it.

[pineappleheadindc]

Birther stuff to try and put this to bed.

1) There is no secret political plan by Obama to "withhold" his "long form". He has no access to it. Just like everyone in my family. Let's repeat for understanding yet again. WHEN YOU ASK THE STATE OF HAWAII FOR A BIRTH CERTIFICATE, YOU GET THE CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH. PERIOD. There is no secret strategery to withhold it from the public to say F.U. to birthers or for political gain or loss. You just have no access to it if you're born in Hawaii.

2) Re: Kev saying (which I agree with) that this kinda stuff is a sideshow which distracts from discussion about real problems. I would only quibble on one thing you (Kev) wrote:

The issue has been addressed to the satisfaction of all but a few nuts. At some point, it's time to move on to more important issues. In this case, that time was in 2008.

It's not a few nuts. It's the MAJORITY of the Republican party. That's freaking mind-blowing.

Bottom line: If you think Obama was born in Kenya because he can't produce his "long form" - then my 82-year-old parents were born in Kenya too. And I'm Kenyan.

SMH.

[fishercob]

my 82-year-old parents were born in Kenya too. And I'm Kenyan.

Should you be eligible to mod this board?

[pineappleheadindc]

[...]

Fukino said she thought she had put the matter to rest. Contacted by NBC, Fukino expanded on previous public statements and made two key points when asked about Trump's recent comments.

The first is that the original so-called "long form" birth certificate — described by Hawaiian officials as a "record of live birth" — absolutely exists, located in a bound volume in a file cabinet on the first floor of the state Department of Health. Fukimo said she has personally inspected it — twice. The first time was in late October 2008, during the closing days of the presidential campaign, when the communications director for the state's then Republican governor, Linda Lingle (who appointed Fukino) asked if she could make a public statement in response to claims then circulating on the Internet that Obama was actually born in Kenya.

Before she would do so, Fukino said, she wanted to inspect the files — and did so, taking with her the state official in charge of vital records. She found the original birth record, properly numbered, half typed and half handwritten, and signed by the doctor who delivered Obama, located in the files. She then put out a public statement asserting to the document's validity. She later put out another public statement in July 2009 — after reviewing the original birth record a second time.

Story: Trump: I have ‘real doubts’ Obama was born in U.S.
"It is real, and no amount of saying it is not, is going to change that," Fukino said. Moreover, she added, her boss at the time, Lingle — who was backing John McCain for president — would presumably have to be in on any cover up since Fukino made her public comment at the governor's office's request. "Why would a Republican governor — who was stumping for the other guy — hold out on a big secret?" she asked.

Her second point — one she made repeatedly in the interview — is that the shorter, computer generated "certification of live birth" that was obtained by the Obama campaign in 2007 and has since been publicly released is the standard document that anybody requesting their birth certificate from the state of Hawaii would receive from the health department.

The document was distributed to the Obama campaign in 2007 after Obama, at the request of a campaign official, personally signed a Hawaii birth certificate request form downloaded on the Internet, according to a former campaign official who asked for anonymity. (Obama was "testy" when asked to sign the form but did so anyway to put the issue to rest, the former campaign official said. The White House has dismissed all questions about the president's birth as "fictional nonsense.")

The certification that the campaign received back —which shows that Obama was born in Honolulu at 7:24 p.m. on Aug. 4, 1961 — was based on the content of the original document in state files, Fukino said.

"What he got, everybody got," said Fukino. "He put out exactly what everybody gets when they ask for a birth certificate."

Hawaiian officials say that the certification is, in fact, only one piece of abundant evidence of Obama's birth in Hawaii. Joshua Wisch, a spokesman for the Hawaii attorney general's office, noted that a public index of vital records, available for inspection in a bound volume at the Health Department's Office of Health Status Monitoring, lists a male child named "Obama II, Barack Hussein" as having been born in the state.

In addition, as Factcheck.org and other media organizations have repeatedly pointed out, both of Honolulu's newspapers, the Honolulu Advertiser on Aug. 13, 1961, and the Honolulu Star Bulletin, on Aug. 14, 1961, both ran birth announcements listing Obama's birth on Aug. 4 of that year.

Even Fukino accepts that her comments are not likely to end the matter for the die-hard birthers. Trump and other skeptics have questioned why the original birth certificate has not been released.

But Wisch, the spokesman for the attorney general's office, said state law does not in fact permit the release of "vital records," including an original "record of live birth" — even to the individual whose birth records.

"It's a Department of Health record and it can't be released to anybody," he said. Nor do state laws have any provision that authorizes such records to be photocopied, Wisch said. If Obama wanted to personally visit the state health department, he would be permitted to inspect his birth record, Wisch said.

But if he or anybody else wanted a copy of their birth records, they would be told to fill out the appropriate state form and receive back the same computer generated "certification of live birth" form that everybody else gets — which is exactly what Obama did four years ago.
Link

This is from Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Republican, and former Director, State of Hawaii Department of Health under former Republican Governor Linda Lingle.

[Nivek]

[...]

Fukino said she thought she had put the matter to rest. Contacted by NBC, Fukino expanded on previous public statements and made two key points when asked about Trump's recent comments.

The first is that the original so-called "long form" birth certificate — described by Hawaiian officials as a "record of live birth" — absolutely exists, located in a bound volume in a file cabinet on the first floor of the state Department of Health. Fukimo said she has personally inspected it — twice. The first time was in late October 2008, during the closing days of the presidential campaign, when the communications director for the state's then Republican governor, Linda Lingle (who appointed Fukino) asked if she could make a public statement in response to claims then circulating on the Internet that Obama was actually born in Kenya.

Before she would do so, Fukino said, she wanted to inspect the files — and did so, taking with her the state official in charge of vital records. She found the original birth record, properly numbered, half typed and half handwritten, and signed by the doctor who delivered Obama, located in the files. She then put out a public statement asserting to the document's validity. She later put out another public statement in July 2009 — after reviewing the original birth record a second time.

Story: Trump: I have ‘real doubts’ Obama was born in U.S.
"It is real, and no amount of saying it is not, is going to change that," Fukino said. Moreover, she added, her boss at the time, Lingle — who was backing John McCain for president — would presumably have to be in on any cover up since Fukino made her public comment at the governor's office's request. "Why would a Republican governor — who was stumping for the other guy — hold out on a big secret?" she asked.

Her second point — one she made repeatedly in the interview — is that the shorter, computer generated "certification of live birth" that was obtained by the Obama campaign in 2007 and has since been publicly released is the standard document that anybody requesting their birth certificate from the state of Hawaii would receive from the health department.

The document was distributed to the Obama campaign in 2007 after Obama, at the request of a campaign official, personally signed a Hawaii birth certificate request form downloaded on the Internet, according to a former campaign official who asked for anonymity. (Obama was "testy" when asked to sign the form but did so anyway to put the issue to rest, the former campaign official said. The White House has dismissed all questions about the president's birth as "fictional nonsense.")

The certification that the campaign received back —which shows that Obama was born in Honolulu at 7:24 p.m. on Aug. 4, 1961 — was based on the content of the original document in state files, Fukino said.

"What he got, everybody got," said Fukino. "He put out exactly what everybody gets when they ask for a birth certificate."

Hawaiian officials say that the certification is, in fact, only one piece of abundant evidence of Obama's birth in Hawaii. Joshua Wisch, a spokesman for the Hawaii attorney general's office, noted that a public index of vital records, available for inspection in a bound volume at the Health Department's Office of Health Status Monitoring, lists a male child named "Obama II, Barack Hussein" as having been born in the state.

In addition, as Factcheck.org and other media organizations have repeatedly pointed out, both of Honolulu's newspapers, the Honolulu Advertiser on Aug. 13, 1961, and the Honolulu Star Bulletin, on Aug. 14, 1961, both ran birth announcements listing Obama's birth on Aug. 4 of that year.

Even Fukino accepts that her comments are not likely to end the matter for the die-hard birthers. Trump and other skeptics have questioned why the original birth certificate has not been released.

But Wisch, the spokesman for the attorney general's office, said state law does not in fact permit the release of "vital records," including an original "record of live birth" — even to the individual whose birth records.

"It's a Department of Health record and it can't be released to anybody," he said. Nor do state laws have any provision that authorizes such records to be photocopied, Wisch said. If Obama wanted to personally visit the state health department, he would be permitted to inspect his birth record, Wisch said.

But if he or anybody else wanted a copy of their birth records, they would be told to fill out the appropriate state form and receive back the same computer generated "certification of live birth" form that everybody else gets — which is exactly what Obama did four years ago.
Link

This is from Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Republican, and former Director, State of Hawaii Department of Health under former Republican Governor Linda Lingle.

Partisan hack.

[Nivek]

Birther stuff to try and put this to bed.

1) There is no secret political plan by Obama to "withhold" his "long form". He has no access to it. Just like everyone in my family. Let's repeat for understanding yet again. WHEN YOU ASK THE STATE OF HAWAII FOR A BIRTH CERTIFICATE, YOU GET THE CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH. PERIOD. There is no secret strategery to withhold it from the public to say F.U. to birthers or for political gain or loss. You just have no access to it if you're born in Hawaii.

2) Re: Kev saying (which I agree with) that this kinda stuff is a sideshow which distracts from discussion about real problems. I would only quibble on one thing you (Kev) wrote:

The issue has been addressed to the satisfaction of all but a few nuts. At some point, it's time to move on to more important issues. In this case, that time was in 2008.

It's not a few nuts. It's the MAJORITY of the Republican party. That's freaking mind-blowing.

Bottom line: If you think Obama was born in Kenya because he can't produce his "long form" - then my 82-year-old parents were born in Kenya too. And I'm Kenyan.

SMH.

I guess it depends on how many people you think are in the Republican party.

[Spence]

It's no secret why Donald Trump is pushing this birther silliness -- most likely Republican primary voters believe President Obama was not born in the U.S. -- Source