Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 3

[deneem4]

Wtf is the kings trying to build??

I have NO IDEA, and it is killing me! Ugh!

They seem to be collecting PFs the way the Wizards are collecting perimeter players.

They drafted a sg now theyre trying to get monta
They have robinson, cousins, patterson, landry, and maybe more at pf
They have no real sf

[LyricalRico]

Wow...so forget Ellis to ATL...cuz they are apparently trying to S&T Teague for Jennings? That's a downgrade for Atlanta IMO. And Ellis instead going to the Kings also makes zero sense. Maybe they think they can play him at the point with a spot-up shooter like McLemore on the team? Not saying it'll work, just trying to figure out what they're thinking.

I also think GSW will regret investing so much in Iguodala and letting Landry/Jack walk, although I think you could argue that in the short-term they have a talent upgrade. They'll really regret it when they have to max out Curry and overpay to keep Thompson. I guess the owners are willing to be repeat luxury tax payers?

The T-Wolves filled a lot of needs so far this summer, just expensively. But I'm inclined to say they've been successful. (Not sure if the rumored $12M per for Pekovic will push them into tax territory. If so, I'd have to lower their offseason grade a bit.)

[deneem4]

^The wolves roster is all over the place

[Ruzious]

Wow...so forget Ellis to ATL...cuz they are apparently trying to S&T Teague for Jennings? That's a downgrade for Atlanta IMO. And Ellis instead going to the Kings also makes zero sense. Maybe they think they can play him at the point with a spot-up shooter like McLemore on the team? Not saying it'll work, just trying to figure out what they're thinking.

I also think GSW will regret investing so much in Iguodala and letting Landry/Jack walk, although I think you could argue that in the short-term they have a talent upgrade. They'll really regret it when they have to max out Curry and overpay to keep Thompson. I guess the owners are willing to be repeat luxury tax payers?

The T-Wolves filled a lot of needs so far this summer, just expensively. But I'm inclined to say they've been successful. (Not sure if the rumored $12M per for Pekovic will push them into tax territory. If so, I'd have to lower their offseason grade a bit.)

It looks like either Ellis or Jennings to Atl. After seeing how poorly they played together, I can't believe Atl wants both of them. I saw a rumor that Sac wants to get in on the trade in order to dump Thornton, so maybe Thornton also goes to Atl in a 3 way? I like Teague. He hasn't excelled in the NBA, but he's improved each year, and if he slashes the way he did at WF, he should draw more fouls and continue to improve. Jennings and Ellis... explosive but horribly inconsistent players who put themselves ahead of their team.

I actually like GSW's moves. Iggy is a real nice fit surrounded by jump shooters who don't dominate the ball. And while Landry and Jack are nice players, I wouldn't pay what it'd take to keep them as backups.

[Dat2U]

I can't believe anyone is still willing to pay Monta Ellis to jack up shots, play terrible defense and piss off teammates.

And Brandon Jennings has barely improved one iota since he's been in the league but his ego seems to have grown tenfold.

Atlanta would make a terrible mistake by choosing either one.

[LyricalRico]

I can't believe anyone is still willing to pay Monta Ellis to jack up shots, play terrible defense and piss off teammates.

And Brandon Jennings has barely improved one iota since he's been in the league but his ego seems to have grown tenfold.

Atlanta would make a terrible mistake by choosing either one.

Agreed. Instead, I think they'd be better off using their cap space to absorb a combo of players & picks from Sacto so they can make the Ellis mistake (maybe Jimmer/Thornton/Hayes+first). Then they can just-resign Teague and be done with it.

[Dat2U]

I can't believe anyone is still willing to pay Monta Ellis to jack up shots, play terrible defense and piss off teammates.

And Brandon Jennings has barely improved one iota since he's been in the league but his ego seems to have grown tenfold.

Atlanta would make a terrible mistake by choosing either one.

Agreed. Instead, I think they'd be better off using their cap space to absorb a combo of players & picks from Sacto so they can make the Ellis mistake (maybe Jimmer/Thornton/Hayes+first). Then they can just-resign Teague and be done with it.

Totally agree.

[pancakes3]

They seem to be collecting PFs the way the Wizards are collecting perimeter players.

[/quote]

I know many of us are trying to block it out but Vesely, Singleton, Booker, and Seraphin are all power forwards - not to mention Nene and Ariza as well.

[dckingsfan]

I have NO IDEA, and it is killing me! Ugh!

They seem to be collecting PFs the way the Wizards are collecting perimeter players.

They drafted a sg now theyre trying to get monta
They have robinson, cousins, patterson, landry, and maybe more at pf
They have no real sf

And like 20 PGs as well... sigh

[dckingsfan]

They seem to be collecting PFs the way the Wizards are collecting perimeter players.

I know many of us are trying to block it out but Vesely, Singleton, Booker, and Seraphin are all power forwards - not to mention Nene and Ariza as well.[/quote]

Ariza is a SF although he can play SG and PF as well (because he can defend all three positions). He has a net positive PER when playing either forward position. He is a valuable piece especially on a contender. I am actually surprised that some contending team hasn't made a nice offer for him. I would be very happy to keep him this year - I personally think you need 4 wings and I think it is going to take a bit of time until Rice can contribute.

[deneem4]

They seem to be collecting PFs the way the Wizards are collecting perimeter players.

I know many of us are trying to block it out but Vesely, Singleton, Booker, and Seraphin are all power forwards - not to mention Nene and Ariza as well.[/quote]

Ariza, singleton, Vesley are essentially all sfs...probably would all do better if they actually played sf

[pancakes3]

The point was that we're just as guilty if not more at stockpiling crappy talent at a single position. There is nothing "essentially sf" about Vesely. There is no incarnation of basketball schema where Ves can play SF. Josh Smith is a better SF than Ves.

But fine. just to placate the nitpickers (which imo are incorrect)... we've got Vesely, Singleton, Ariza, Webster, and Porter at SF. 5 guys, and that doesn't count that Rice is a sg/sf, or that booker is a sf/pf.

[dckingsfan]

The point was that we're just as guilty if not more at stockpiling crappy talent at a single position. There is nothing "essentially sf" about Vesely. There is no incarnation of basketball schema where Ves can play SF. Josh Smith is a better SF than Ves.

But fine. just to placate the nitpickers (which imo are incorrect)... we've got Vesely, Singleton, Ariza, Webster, and Porter at SF. 5 guys, and that doesn't count that Rice is a sg/sf, or that booker is a sf/pf.

Or another way to look at it... we have 5 players out of 14 that aren't wings... Okafor, Nene, Seraphin, Wall and Maynor.

The other way to look at it - we have 2 NBA ready PGs (I am giving Maynor the benefit of the doubt), 4 NBA ready wings (Beal, Webster, Ariza and Porter (guess)) and 3 NBA ready FC players (I am giving Seraphin the benefit of the doubt).

I will say that 5 have expiring contracts for next year. So just letting the contracts expire will be one way to rebalance the lineup and that puts us in better shape than many.

[Nivek]

I think Smith got too much money in Detroit, but I think he's a solid fit up there. Teams need at least 3 good bigs. The Pistons have Drummond (strictly a C), Smith (strictly a PF) and Monroe (PF/C). That's a pretty solid big man rotation with the potential to get a lot better as Drummond and Monroe improve. Coaches don't like playing bigs more than 30-32 minutes per game anyway so there's a fairly easy division of playing time.

[Dat2U]

The point was that we're just as guilty if not more at stockpiling crappy talent at a single position. There is nothing "essentially sf" about Vesely. There is no incarnation of basketball schema where Ves can play SF. Josh Smith is a better SF than Ves.

But fine. just to placate the nitpickers (which imo are incorrect)... we've got Vesely, Singleton, Ariza, Webster, and Porter at SF. 5 guys, and that doesn't count that Rice is a sg/sf, or that booker is a sf/pf.

Or another way to look at it... we have 5 players out of 14 that aren't wings... Okafor, Nene, Seraphin, Wall and Maynor.

The other way to look at it - we have 2 NBA ready PGs (I am giving Maynor the benefit of the doubt), 4 NBA ready wings (Beal, Webster, Ariza and Porter (guess)) and 3 NBA ready FC players (I am giving Seraphin the benefit of the doubt).

I will say that 5 have expiring contracts for next year. So just letting the contracts expire will be one way to rebalance the lineup and that puts us in better shape than many.

I'm not sure what Maynor or Seraphin have done to earn the benefit of doubt. Especially Seraphin who was arguably the worst rotation big in the league last year. It's really an understatement to just say he was bad. Trevor Booker is far more worthy of such doubt IMO although his warts are well discussed.

IMO we've got 2 legit NBA guards in Wall & Beal. We've got 3 legit NBA SFs in Webster, Ariza & Porter. And we've got 3 legit NBA bigs in Nene (PF/C), Okafor (C) & Booker (PF). Booker isn't the most reliable option health or fit so an upgrade is needed there. So basically out of the entire roster we got 7 & a possible. Everyone else on the roster probably wouldn't be guaranteed a roster spot anywhere else with the exception of Seraphin who has enough physical ability to get looks by other teams. Rice is an unknown variable at this point.

Seraphin, Vesely, Singleton, Maynor & Temple could all be easily replaced and upgraded with guys out of the D League.

[Nivek]

To dat's point -- last season, 64 players classified as centers by basketball-reference played at least 500 total minutes. Kevin Seraphin had a PPA of 22 (where 100 = average and higher is better). That ranked 64th. The next closest PPA at center was a 36.

At PF, the bottom two were Singleton and Vesely.

The Wizards didn't have anyone who ranked in the bottom 10 at any other position (Cartier Martin was close at SF).

They did sign Maynor, though, who had one of the 5 worst PPAs for a PG last season.

Hmm. Having a bottom 10 guy at every position is amazingly within reach. Just re-sign Martin and trade for Rivers.

[AFM]

You definitely are skewing your calculations for PPA to unfairly make the Wizards roster look worse than it is. If you had actually watched them play, I don't know, just once, and didn't just toy around with Excel all day you would know that both Vesely and Seraphin are dominant big men with incredible ceilings. Stats don't show everything.

[Dat2U]

So what do you guys think of Tim Connelly's job in Denver so far since being hired away from the Wizards? So far I'm thinking he's not the genius that got away.

And apparently he still likes Randy Foye.

[Nivek]

You definitely are skewing your calculations for PPA to unfairly make the Wizards roster look worse than it is. If you had actually watched them play, I don't know, just once, and didn't just toy around with Excel all day you would know that both Vesely and Seraphin are dominant big men with incredible ceilings. Stats don't show everything.

Very good points.

Stats can't possibly tell the story the way video can:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWG8RATul30[/youtube]

Smoooooooooooooth!

[dckingsfan]

I'm not sure what Maynor or Seraphin have done to earn the benefit of doubt. Especially Seraphin who was arguably the worst rotation big in the league last year. It's really an understatement to just say he was bad. Trevor Booker is far more worthy of such doubt IMO although his warts are well discussed.

IMO we've got 2 legit NBA guards in Wall & Beal. We've got 3 legit NBA SFs in Webster, Ariza & Porter. And we've got 3 legit NBA bigs in Nene (PF/C), Okafor (C) & Booker (PF). Booker isn't the most reliable option health or fit so an upgrade is needed there. So basically out of the entire roster we got 7 & a possible. Everyone else on the roster probably wouldn't be guaranteed a roster spot anywhere else with the exception of Seraphin who has enough physical ability to get looks by other teams. Rice is an unknown variable at this point.

Seraphin, Vesely, Singleton, Maynor & Temple could all be easily replaced and upgraded with guys out of the D League.

You don't give Webster the benefit of the doubt about being able to play guard? I think he plays both positions equally well.

I give Seraphin the benefit of the doubt because he has played or has been ready to play in almost all of the games over the last three years, had a nice improvement to his game in '11-'12 (had a nice eFG%), began to learn how to pass out of the double-team last year and actually has the size to play the position.

Your points are valid about Booker - minus his warts.

Maynor - I give him the benefit of the doubt because I want it to be the case (still don't like the move).

All-in-all, we are saying the same thing though... at least I think we are.