Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX

Dark Faze · Post #121 » by **Dark Faze** » Wed Mar 4, 2015 9:26 pm

I think there's reason to be concerned about Brad, but unless you can do an under the table deal to bring in a guy like Cousins, I'd say no to most other offers. Even Noel and a first isn't something I'd agree to. He's the type of player you kind of have to let either sink or swim.

We need a new voice/coach soon though.

gambitx777 · Post #122 » by **gambitx777** » Wed Mar 4, 2015 10:45 pm

I agree if you torpedo his confidence with trade talk, you might be dooming him too soon. I think we would all go back and do beal for harden if we could. But the past is the past, you want to at least explore your options. Maybe use him to get DC, Maybe Oladipo, Noel or Embid and a first is an option. The lakers might do Julius Randle and a first. Something o that nature is possible.

Post #123 » by **nate33** » Wed Mar 4, 2015 10:49 pm

Dark Faze wrote:I think there's reason to be concerned about Brad, but unless you can do an under the table deal to bring in a guy like Cousins, I'd say no to most other offers. Even Noel and a first isn't something I'd agree to. He's the type of player you kind of have to let either sink or swim.

We need a new voice/coach soon though.

I'm not "concerned" about Beal in that it's fairly obvious that he's a legit NBA starter who will have a long career. I am concerned about him developing into a All-Star-caliber player though. I'd deal him for somebody with more upside, particularly if that guy has a cheap contract that lasts until 2017 or later.

rockymac52 · Post #124 » by **rockymac52** » Wed Mar 4, 2015 10:52 pm

gambitx777 wrote:I agree if you torpedo his confidence with trade talk, you might be dooming him too soon. I think we would all go back and do beal for harden if we could. But the past is the past, you want to at least explore your options. Maybe use him to get DC, Maybe Oladipo, Noel or Embid and a first is an option. The lakers might do Julius Randle and a first. Something o that nature is possible.

Why would the Sixers do either of those trades though? That goes against everything they believe in. UNLESS they view Beal as a legit star, in which case they'd jump at the opportunity. Hinkie already was on the right side of the Harden trade, do we really feel comfortable letting him get his star SG for pennies on the dollar again?

Post #125 » by **Ruzious** » Wed Mar 4, 2015 11:04 pm

nate33 wrote:
Dark Faze wrote:I think there's reason to be concerned about Brad, but unless you can do an under the table deal to bring in a guy like Cousins, I'd say no to most other offers. Even Noel and a first isn't something I'd agree to. He's the type of player you kind of have to let either sink or swim.

We need a new voice/coach soon though.

I'm not "concerned" about Beal in that it's fairly obvious that he's a legit NBA starter who will have a long career. I am concerned about him developing into a All-Star-caliber player though. I'd deal him for somebody with more upside, particularly if that guy has a cheap contract that lasts until 2017 or later.

And that last part is something to pay attention to. It'd potentially give the Wiz significantly more cap space to use to build a roster around Durant - perhaps to sign a significant free agent in addition to Durant in the 2016 offseason - maybe like a Terrence Jones or a Tyler Zeller.

gambitx777 · Post #126 » by **gambitx777** » Wed Mar 4, 2015 11:12 pm

rockymac52 wrote:Why would the Sixers do either of those trades though? That goes against everything they believe in. UNLESS they view Beal as a legit star, in which case they'd jump at the opportunity. Hinkie already was on the right side of the Harden trade, do we really feel comfortable letting him get his star SG for pennies on the dollar again?

The Sixers in general don't make much sense, they could very well trade Noel or Embid for Beal, it would not shock me at all. Beal would instantly be the leader of that team. That's kind of what they need, an alpha dog. I'm not saying I want to, but if we trade beal, there could be worse trades. My point is that you have to take into account that the Sixers have an enigma factor to them right now, they are unpredictable and you might be able to pull of a deal or two that you would not think is doable.

rockymac52 · Post #127 » by **rockymac52** » Wed Mar 4, 2015 11:16 pm

gambitx777 wrote:
rockymac52 wrote:Why would the Sixers do either of those trades though? That goes against everything they believe in. UNLESS they view Beal as a legit star, in which case they'd jump at the opportunity. Hinkie already was on the right side of the Harden trade, do we really feel comfortable letting him get his star SG for pennies on the dollar again?

The Sixers in general don't make much sense, they could very well trade Noel or Embid for Beal, it would not shock me at all. Beal would instantly be the leader of that team. That's kind of what they need, an alpha dog. I'm not saying I want to, but if we trade beal, there could be worse trades. My point is that you have to take into account that the Sixers have an enigma factor to them right now, they are unpredictable and you might be able to pull of a deal or two that you would not think is doable.

Uh, I'm not so sure about that. The 76ers are actually one of the most predictable teams there are right now. It's obvious what they're doing. Only way they trade one of their assets is if they don't totally believe in that player becoming a star, and in return they're either getting draft picks or a player they believe is a star (the latter has yet to happen, but that's what they would do). But to trade for an unproven guy like Beal with the assumption that he's going to be a star, one year before he's going to be due a max contract, is a stretch, UNLESS they are very confident Beal is going to be a star.

With that said, I do believe Beal is going to be a star, so if I were the 76ers, I would trade Noel and maybe a 1st (not top 5 or anything that good) for him.

Post #128 » by **Ruzious** » Wed Mar 4, 2015 11:16 pm

rockymac52 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:I agree if you torpedo his confidence with trade talk, you might be dooming him too soon. I think we would all go back and do beal for harden if we could. But the past is the past, you want to at least explore your options. Maybe use him to get DC, Maybe Oladipo, Noel or Embid and a first is an option. The lakers might do Julius Randle and a first. Something o that nature is possible.

Why would the Sixers do either of those trades though? That goes against everything they believe in. UNLESS they view Beal as a legit star, in which case they'd jump at the opportunity. Hinkie already was on the right side of the Harden trade, do we really feel comfortable letting him get his star SG for pennies on the dollar again?

You can't think that way and be successful, imo - being scared of losing a trade.

I really want that Miami 1st that Philly owns. If there's no Beal trade, how about the Wiz trade 2016 and 2018 picks for the Miami 2015 pick? The Wiz'd have to be confident they'll get Durant or another great player, because giving up 2 1sts would be a huge risk.

rockymac52 · Post #129 » by **rockymac52** » Wed Mar 4, 2015 11:19 pm

Ruzious wrote:
rockymac52 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:I agree if you torpedo his confidence with trade talk, you might be dooming him too soon. I think we would all go back and do beal for harden if we could. But the past is the past, you want to at least explore your options. Maybe use him to get DC, Maybe Oladipo, Noel or Embid and a first is an option. The lakers might do Julius Randle and a first. Something o that nature is possible.

Why would the Sixers do either of those trades though? That goes against everything they believe in. UNLESS they view Beal as a legit star, in which case they'd jump at the opportunity. Hinkie already was on the right side of the Harden trade, do we really feel comfortable letting him get his star SG for pennies on the dollar again?

You can't think that way and be successful, imo - being scared of losing a trade.

I really want that Miami 1st that Philly owns. If there's no Beal trade, how about the Wiz trade 2016 and 2018 picks for the Miami 2015 pick? The Wiz'd have to be confident they'll get Durant or another great player, because giving up 2 1sts would be a huge risk.

2 future 1sts for 1 current 1st? Oh god no. Even if you expect us to be contenders so our 2 picks are going to be in the 25-30 range, and Miami's is going to be the 15th pick, that's not a trade I want to make. Late 1st round picks historically aren't that much worse than guys taken mid 1st round. So I'd rather have 2 players than 1, or at least 2 shots at a good player instead of 1. And of course there's the possibility that we fall apart in the coming years and the picks we gave up turn out to be lottery picks. That would be a disaster.

Post #130 » by **nate33** » Wed Mar 4, 2015 11:24 pm

Ruzious wrote:
rockymac52 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:I agree if you torpedo his confidence with trade talk, you might be dooming him too soon. I think we would all go back and do beal for harden if we could. But the past is the past, you want to at least explore your options. Maybe use him to get DC, Maybe Oladipo, Noel or Embid and a first is an option. The lakers might do Julius Randle and a first. Something o that nature is possible.

Why would the Sixers do either of those trades though? That goes against everything they believe in. UNLESS they view Beal as a legit star, in which case they'd jump at the opportunity. Hinkie already was on the right side of the Harden trade, do we really feel comfortable letting him get his star SG for pennies on the dollar again?

You can't think that way and be successful, imo - being scared of losing a trade.

I really want that Miami 1st that Philly owns. If there's no Beal trade, how about the Wiz trade 2016 and 2018 picks for the Miami 2015 pick? The Wiz'd have to be confident they'll get Durant or another great player, because giving up 2 1sts would be a huge risk.

One thing to bear in mind is that this team is one John Wall injury away from a bottom 3 finish. It's really scary to trade any future 1sts until we have at least one other star in place who can carry the team to mediocrity in the absence of Wall.

dckingsfan · Post #131 » by **dckingsfan** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 1:20 am

Zach Lowe: Re: reports that Nets could have flipped Jack to Wiz for a 1st: they'd have had to take on Webster, and "1st" was a pick swap, per sources. Twitter @ZachLowe_NBA

Dat2U · Post #132 » by **Dat2U** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 1:49 am

dckingsfan wrote:Zach Lowe: Re: reports that Nets could have flipped Jack to Wiz for a 1st: they'd have had to take on Webster, and "1st" was a pick swap, per sources. Twitter @ZachLowe_NBA

Very Grunfeld-like. Using a 1st round pick to upgrade a salary slot.

pcbothwel · Post #133 » by **pcbothwel** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 2:35 am

Dat2U wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Zach Lowe: Re: reports that Nets could have flipped Jack to Wiz for a 1st: they'd have had to take on Webster, and "1st" was a pick swap, per sources. Twitter @ZachLowe_NBA

Very Grunfeld-like. Using a 1st round pick to upgrade a salary slot.

Im no fan of EG, but it saying a pick swap and the Nets have the Hawks pick. So the offer was:

Webster, 1st (#20) for Jack, 1st (#29)

We drop 9 spots for an upgrade in talent at a position of need for 2 years, while saving another 2M-5M in 2016. I think that is a fair offer.

Dark Faze · Post #134 » by **Dark Faze** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 3:19 am

going from 20 to 29 is basically like trading the first though, thats basically a 2nd rounder at that point

Getting rid of Websters contract is great and all but I would not have liked that trade at all

gambitx777 · Post #135 » by **gambitx777** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 4:55 am

Dark Faze wrote:going from 20 to 29 is basically like trading the first though, thats basically a 2nd rounder at that point

Getting rid of Websters contract is great and all but I would not have liked that trade at all

Actually its pretty good, this draft is super deep when it comes to bigs, there are tons of centers and PF's who are NBA players, who will be there at 29. Plus take in to account that the 2016 yearof jack's deal is only guaranteed for $500,000. You can buy him out for 500K that summer and open up a lot of cap room or keep him as a contract and a solid back up PG. I assume we would have still made the sessions deal, to keep us under the tax line. That would have made us extremely deep at the guard position and it would have put us in excellent financial shape for 2016.

Dark Faze · Post #136 » by **Dark Faze** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 11:52 am

i dont care about finances, i care about talent and dropping 9 spots represents a significant drop in quality prospects

finances for who? durant isn't coming here at this point

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #137 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 11:54 am

Dark Faze wrote:I think there's reason to be concerned about Brad, but unless you can do an under the table deal to bring in a guy like Cousins, I'd say no to most other offers. Even Noel and a first isn't something I'd agree to. He's the type of player you kind of have to let either sink or swim.

We need a new voice/coach soon though.

Noel had some ridiculous amount of blocks, steals, and rebounds last night. Pending his knees becoming problematic I wouldn't hesitate to trade Beal for Noel.

That said I think Washington needs a new coach before any major deal.

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #138 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 11:55 am

nate33 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
rockymac52 wrote:
Why would the Sixers do either of those trades though? That goes against everything they believe in. UNLESS they view Beal as a legit star, in which case they'd jump at the opportunity. Hinkie already was on the right side of the Harden trade, do we really feel comfortable letting him get his star SG for pennies on the dollar again?

You can't think that way and be successful, imo - being scared of losing a trade.

I really want that Miami 1st that Philly owns. If there's no Beal trade, how about the Wiz trade 2016 and 2018 picks for the Miami 2015 pick? The Wiz'd have to be confident they'll get Durant or another great player, because giving up 2 1sts would be a huge risk.

One thing to bear in mind is that this team is one John Wall injury away from a bottom 3 finish. It's really scary to trade any future 1sts until we have at least one other star in place who can carry the team to mediocrity in the absence of Wall.

Or, one John Wall trade away from becoming championship caliber in 5 years.

Never lose all objectivity. Wall has to play like a max contract player.

Dark Faze · Post #139 » by **Dark Faze** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 11:58 am

I really don't think centers are as valuable as people think they are. Minus a Cousins/Davis level guy, you're completely fine in this league if you can just get a 6-11 or 7 footer that can serve as a rim protector at a league average level. And after this draft there are going to be a surplus of those guys available.

Post #140 » by **Ruzious** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 2:03 pm

Dark Faze wrote:going from 20 to 29 is basically like trading the first though, thats basically a 2nd rounder at that point

Getting rid of Websters contract is great and all but I would not have liked that trade at all

Yeah, I would not have made that trade. 20 is far better than 29 in this draft, imo.