Political Roundtable Part XVIII

[nate33]

Obama was more powerful than I realized.

Apparently, his mojo was so strong he had the ability to corrupt dozens of lifelong republicans, mulitple FISA judges etc

I wish he would have used some of that juice to get single payer passed while he was at it.

The judges weren't corrupted. They were lied to. The only Republicans that were corrupt were Comey and Rosenstein, and those guys were swamp creatures.

[Wizardspride]

Obama was more powerful than I realized.

Apparently, his mojo was so strong he had the ability to corrupt dozens of lifelong republicans, mulitple FISA judges etc

I wish he would have used some of that juice to get single payer passed while he was at it.

The judges weren't corrupted. They were lied to. The only Republicans that were corrupt were Comey and Rosenstein, and those guys were swamp creatures.

Elaborate please.

[stilldropin20]

Obama was more powerful than I realized.

Apparently, his mojo was so strong he had the ability to corrupt dozens of lifelong republicans, mulitple FISA judges etc

I wish he would have used some of that juice to get single payer passed while he was at it.

the biggest flaw in modern left wing politics is the entire platform is almost entirely based on emotionally charged issues. and because of that, all of the most successful leftwing candidates are those that can consistently muster the most emotional performances while campaigning without over kill. And none of that helps with actual governing. Crying on the senate floor doesn't work. It may win you votes in elections but not in the house or senate. At some point the left needs to (A.) ween themselves off of emotional based politics. And (B.) then use more logic once they get the opportunity to govern.

The problem is that they charge their base up so much that using logic becomes unattractive to their base and their(emotional) base looks at them as "sellouts" if they start using logic, finding common ground, and putting deals together that work for the majority of americans.

[Wizardspride]

Obama was more powerful than I realized.

Apparently, his mojo was so strong he had the ability to corrupt dozens of lifelong republicans, mulitple FISA judges etc

I wish he would have used some of that juice to get single payer passed while he was at it.

the biggest flaw in modern left wing politics is the entire platform is almost entirely based on emotionally charged issues. and because of that, all of the most successful leftwing candidates are those that can consistently muster the most emotional performances while campaigning without over kill. And none of that helps with actual governing. Crying on the senate floor doesn't work. It may win you votes in elections but not in the house or senate. At some point the left needs to (A.) ween themselves off of emotional based politics. And (B.) then use more logic once they get the opportunity to govern.

The problem is that they charge their base up so much that using logic becomes unattractive to their base and their(emotional) base looks at them as "sellouts" if they start using logic, finding common ground, and putting deals together that work for the majority of americans.

Are you implying that the "Right" is all about compromise and making deals?

[stilldropin20]

Obama was more powerful than I realized.

Apparently, his mojo was so strong he had the ability to corrupt dozens of lifelong republicans, mulitple FISA judges etc

I wish he would have used some of that juice to get single payer passed while he was at it.

The judges weren't corrupted. They were lied to. The only Republicans that were corrupt were Comey and Rosenstein, and those guys were swamp creatures.

yes. you dont need a lot of people to pull this off. But you definitely needed Obama. Comey or Mccabe. And I would say Lynch as well. Thats it. thats all you needed. Everyone else is just following orders. As a military man, i can say its easy to "just follow orders." But Obama for sure. There is NO WAY he would not be informed and in on this. Can liberal on here honestly say that if Warren is monitored in similar fashion in 2020 that trump would NOT know??? Anybody here would buy that?????

And Obama had the most to gain. It was Obama's turn to go on the international "lecture circuit" for $500,000 to $1M a pop. Like WJC did when he left office. he absolutely had/has the most to lose. Now he has to wait. and he also has to hope laws are not changed that make it illegal for former heads of state to benefit in the way Bill Clinton did when he left office. This is why the Uranium One investigation is so important. To expose WJC and the Clinton foundation and HRC for the (logan act violations) that occurred and how they enriched themselves in the process. That MUST end!

I'll take this time to point out that trump signed an executive order almost on day 1 that denies any of his cabinet or dept heads from lobbying for 5 years after their service is over. This number should be 10 years and it should be part of campaign finance reform among other things. Politicians MUST NOT be allowed to "get rich" off of the back of the american tax pay by playing politics once outside of office. Its disgusting.

[nate33]

Nate, are you seriously arguing this whacko conspiracy bs? You are better than this. Come back to the light man.

Your man Trump and a good dozen or so of his staff are going to jail because your side is evil. Be a good sport about it, admit you were wrong, we will forgive you.

* Why do you suppose Natalia Veselnitskaya visited Fusion GPS before and after her meeting with Trump?

* Why did Comey deviate from long established protocol to notify Congress every quarterly about sensitive investigations, but failed to notify Congress about the Trump investigation for 8 months?

* Why did Strozk refer to an "insurance policy" that was worked out in "Andy's office" in case Trump was elected?

* Why did the FBI deliberately omit the critical information that Steele Dossier was paid for by the Clinton campaign?

* Why did the FBI continue to work with Steele after they knew he leaked to Yahoo News (prior to getting the FISA warrant) but later cut ties with Steele after he leaked to Mother Jones (after getting the FISA warrant)?

* Why did the FBI change the wording of the letter that reopened the Hillary Clinton email investigation ten days before the election, - changing it from "grossly negligent" to "extremely careless"?

* Why did James Clapper flatly deny in a CNN interview in March 2017 the possibility of a FISA surveillance warrant on the Trump team. He claimed boldly that no warrant exists and if there was one, he would definitely know. And then in September of 2017 he changes his story and says there could have been wiretaps. Why did he lie the first time?

* When the FBI finally obtained a Title 1 FISA warrant for Page in October of 2016, Page had already been kicked off the Trump team, yet they used that warrant as an excuse to tap Trump's communications. Does that seem right?

* Why did Strzok (an admitted Trump hater) and another agent ambush Flynn with an interrogation without any forewarning and without Flynn having an attorney? Were they really that concerned about the Logan Act? Does that not seem highly irregular for a biased agent to interrogate Flynn for a "crime" that has never been prosecuted in 200 years?

[closg00]

I will leave thus here. 1 year ago today. Looks, smells, and sounds like an honest American president willing and ready to be honest about America's past and America's present and future in the world.

Read on Twitter

Sent from my SM-N920T using RealGM mobile app

Off-camera, do you think they traded sexual harassment war stories?

[stilldropin20]

Nate, are you seriously arguing this whacko conspiracy bs? You are better than this. Come back to the light man.

Your man Trump and a good dozen or so of his staff are going to jail because your side is evil. Be a good sport about it, admit you were wrong, we will forgive you.

* Why do you suppose Natalia Veselnitskaya visited Fusion GPS before and after her meeting with Trump?

* Why did Comey deviate from long established protocol to notify Congress every quarterly about sensitive investigations, but failed to notify Congress about the Trump investigation for 8 months?

* Why did Strozk refer to an "insurance policy" that was worked out in "Andy's office" in case Trump was elected?

* Why did the FBI deliberately omit the critical information that Steele Dossier was paid for by the Clinton campaign?

* Why did the FBI continue to work with Steele after they knew he leaked to Yahoo News (prior to getting the FISA warrant) but later cut ties with Steele after he leaked to Mother Jones (after getting the FISA warrant)?

* Why did the FBI change the wording of the letter that reopened the Hillary Clinton email investigation ten days before the election, - changing it from "grossly negligent" to "extremely careless"?

* Why did James Clapper flatly deny in a CNN interview in March 2017 the possibility of a FISA surveillance warrant on the Trump team. He claimed boldly that no warrant exists and if there was one, he would definitely know. And then in September of 2017 he changes his story and says there could have been wiretaps. Why did he lie the first time?

* When the FBI finally obtained a Title 1 FISA warrant for Page in October of 2016, Page had already been kicked off the Trump team, yet they used that warrant as an excuse to tap Trump's communications. Does that seem right?

* Why did Strzok (an admitted Trump hater) and another agent ambush Flynn with an interrogation without any forewarning and without Flynn having an attorney? Were they really that concerned about the Logan Act? Does that not seem highly irregular for a biased agent to interrogate Flynn for a "crime" that has never been prosecuted in 200 years?

Great post. I'll add:

and why wont CNN and any other main stream media report on any of this!!!!!!???????????

[stilldropin20]

Obama was more powerful than I realized.

Apparently, his mojo was so strong he had the ability to corrupt dozens of lifelong republicans, mulitple FISA judges etc

I wish he would have used some of that juice to get single payer passed while he was at it.

the biggest flaw in modern left wing politics is the entire platform is almost entirely based on emotionally charged issues. and because of that, all of the most successful leftwing candidates are those that can consistently muster the most emotional performances while campaigning without over kill. And none of that helps with actual governing. Crying on the senate floor doesn't work. It may win you votes in elections but not in the house or senate. At some point the left needs to (A.) ween themselves off of emotional based politics. And (B.) then use more logic once they get the opportunity to govern.

The problem is that they charge their base up so much that using logic becomes unattractive to their base and their(emotional) base looks at them as "sellouts" if they start using logic, finding common ground, and putting deals together that work for the majority of americans.

Are you implying that the "Right" is all about compromise and making deals?

i'm implying that it is very difficult to have logic based discussion with a group of people that want to turn it into emotional argument because logic wont work. This thread is proof. and its not long before the emotional based crowd starts calling names. discussion ends. negotiations over.

[Pointgod]

Nate, are you seriously arguing this whacko conspiracy bs? You are better than this. Come back to the light man.

Your man Trump and a good dozen or so of his staff are going to jail because your side is evil. Be a good sport about it, admit you were wrong, we will forgive you.

He's really not.

[cammac]

Obama is still a much more popular person in the world than Trump ever will or hope to be. Getting gigs to talk isn't a problem!
Wackado's with this BS isn't exactly surprising!
Take all the wealth of the world back its all in the HANDS of the Rothchilds!!
Blacks are genetically more prone to violence than other races!!!!!!
That's really just a tip of the iceberg I'm quite sure!
Waiting for Obama is really a Muslim and born in Indonesia!
They haven't heard of conspiracy theory that FOX spouts that they didn't like!

[Zonkerbl]

Nate, are you seriously arguing this whacko conspiracy bs? You are better than this. Come back to the light man.

Your man Trump and a good dozen or so of his staff are going to jail because your side is evil. Be a good sport about it, admit you were wrong, we will forgive you.

* Why do you suppose Natalia Veselnitskaya visited Fusion GPS before and after her meeting with Trump?

* Why did Comey deviate from long established protocol to notify Congress every quarterly about sensitive investigations, but failed to notify Congress about the Trump investigation for 8 months?

* Why did Strozk refer to an "insurance policy" that was worked out in "Andy's office" in case Trump was elected?

* Why did the FBI deliberately omit the critical information that Steele Dossier was paid for by the Clinton campaign?

* Why did the FBI continue to work with Steele after they knew he leaked to Yahoo News (prior to getting the FISA warrant) but later cut ties with Steele after he leaked to Mother Jones (after getting the FISA warrant)?

* Why did the FBI change the wording of the letter that reopened the Hillary Clinton email investigation ten days before the election, - changing it from "grossly negligent" to "extremely careless"?

* Why did James Clapper flatly deny in a CNN interview in March 2017 the possibility of a FISA surveillance warrant on the Trump team. He claimed boldly that no warrant exists and if there was one, he would definitely know. And then in September of 2017 he changes his story and says there could have been wiretaps. Why did he lie the first time?

* When the FBI finally obtained a Title 1 FISA warrant for Page in October of 2016, Page had already been kicked off the Trump team, yet they used that warrant as an excuse to tap Trump's communications. Does that seem right?

* Why did Strzok (an admitted Trump hater) and another agent ambush Flynn with an interrogation without any forewarning and without Flynn having an attorney? Were they really that concerned about the Logan Act? Does that not seem highly irregular for a biased agent to interrogate Flynn for a "crime" that has never been prosecuted in 200 years?

This is pathetic. That’s all you’ve got? You’re wrong, your side is evil and going to jail where they belong. You’ve taken the side of evil. You are a traitor to your country.

[cammac]

While logic is being thrown to roadside look at a conservative but mainstream publication The Atlantic thinks of the memo!

The most important and interesting assertions, yet the ones that cry out for more clarification, concern an application to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court to surveil former Trump foreign-policy adviser Carter Page. The memo states that a dossier prepared by Christopher Steele, a former British intelligence official researching Trump on behalf of a firm hired by the Democratic National Committee, “formed an essential part of the Carter Page FISA application.

Perhaps most importantly, the final bullet point in the memo undermines its apparent political aims. The memo is clearly intended to discredit the investigation into the Trump campaign’s ties to Russia, and President Trump was eager to declassify it because he hoped it would do so, but the memo acknowledges (while mentioning controversial FBI agent Peter Strzok) that the investigation predates the Page warrant:

After days of fevered speculation about the memo, the document that emerges is interesting but vague. It is not the game-changer that some Republicans in the House promised. Importantly, it is also a partisan document, prepared by a close ally of the president’s who served on his transition team and has provided unreliable information in the recent past. The intelligence committee also rejected a request from Democratic members to release a rebuttal memo.

“In claiming that there is ‘no evidence of any cooperation or conspiracy between Page and Papadopoulos,’ the Majority deliberately misstates the reason why DOJ specifically explained Russia’s role in courting Papadopoulos and the context in which to evaluate Russian approaches to Page.”

Ironically, although the memo sets out to discredit the dossier, its public release seems likely to bring new attention to it, and in particular to whether U.S. intelligence was able to confirm claims that Steele made. If these claims were independently confirmed, it would further undermine the memo’s claims about the dossier’s centrality and unreliability; if they were not, it bolsters the memo’s concerns.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/02/nunes-news/552227/

[montestewart]

the biggest flaw in modern left wing politics is the entire platform is almost entirely based on emotionally charged issues. and because of that, all of the most successful leftwing candidates are those that can consistently muster the most emotional performances while campaigning without over kill. And none of that helps with actual governing. Crying on the senate floor doesn't work. It may win you votes in elections but not in the house or senate. At some point the left needs to (A.) ween themselves off of emotional based politics. And (B.) then use more logic once they get the opportunity to govern.

The problem is that they charge their base up so much that using logic becomes unattractive to their base and their(emotional) base looks at them as "sellouts" if they start using logic, finding common ground, and putting deals together that work for the majority of americans.

Are you implying that the "Right" is all about compromise and making deals?

i'm implying that it is very difficult to have logic based discussion with a group of people that want to turn it into emotional argument because logic wont work. This thread is proof. and its not long before the emotional based crowd starts calling names. discussion ends. negotiations over.

See, here is a perfect teaching moment, right here. As I've said to many of you "emotional" posters before, whether you choose to be baited is entirely your decision. If we were in some forum where people were debating before a group of ill-informed undecideds, I might better understand the passion of rebuttal, but here is just recycled partisan non-msm FAKE NEWS! bullet points offered as "facts" in a lukewarm and watery paste of reasoned analysis, and there's no one in here to hear them. I choose not to debate in such a setting over such minimal stakes. You too can make that choice.

If you really want to make a difference, find some true undecideds and make the case directly to them. There are no undecideds here. If a tree falls in a forest, and Trump wins...you got it: Russia!

[cammac]

This is a long rebuttal about the Nunes Memo and yes it was from a liberal site but factually it is extremely hard to dispute.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/2/4/1738508/-This-Destroys-the-Nunes-Memo

[montestewart]

This is a long rebuttal about the Nunes Memo and yes it was from a liberal site but factually it is extremely hard to dispute.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/2/4/1738508/-This-Destroys-the-Nunes-Memo

Not one word about the Rothschild Deep State One World Government Trilateralist Comet Pizza Illuminati Masonic Swamp. A totally biased whitewash.

[cammac]

Intolerance in any religion is a travesty and the radical Christian Right is no different from Radical Muslims. Both have subverted the message for political gain and to trivialize the message of there religion.

President Donald Trump’s pick to handle relief efforts for migrants across the globe has come under fire for calling Muslims violent and suggesting that Christian refugees should get priority in certain situations.

“Muslim faith instructs the faithful” to wage violence. In another, Isaacs said Christian refugees should be “1st priority” in certain relief efforts

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-nominee-for-migrant-agency-called-muslims-violent?ref=home

While I'm a atheist I am comforted by the positive messages that all religions have on society! Let me just send some from the Muslim Faith.
I'll start with:

"Oh, Prophet, we have sent you as a mercy to all creatures." (21:107)

And fight in Gods cause against those who wage war against you, but do not commit aggression for surely, God does not love aggressors. (2:190)

And serve God and do not set up anything with Him, and be kind to the parents, and the relatives, and the needy, and the neighbour who is of kin, and the neighbour next door, and the friend far away, and the traveller, and those who are still dependent. God does not like the arrogant, the boastful. (4:36)

Among His signs is [the fact] that He has created spouses for you from among yourselves so that you may console yourselves with them. He has planted affection and mercy between you; in that are signs for people who think things over. (30:21)

Believers are each other's brothers. Restore peace among your brothers. Have fear of God so that perhaps you will receive mercy. (49:10)

The true servants of the Gracious One are those who walk upon the earth with humility and when they are addressed by the ignorant ones, their response is, Peace; (25:63)

A good action and a bad action are not the same. Repel the bad with something better and, if there is enmity between you and someone else, he will be like a bosom friend. (41:34)

He does not forbid you to deal kindly and justly with anyone who has not fought you on account of your faith or driven you out of your homes: God loves the just. (60:8)

Say: O My servants who have transgressed against their own souls, despair not of the mercy of Allah. Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Truly, He is Most Forgiving, Most Merciful. (39:53)

[cammac]

SD20s new pick for Attorney General quoted this.

But Gowdy, who was closely involved in drafting the memo, listed a number of aspects of the investigation that have nothing to do with putting Page under surveillance based on the Steele dossier, which was funded by Democratic interests.

“The dossier has nothing to do with the meeting at Trump Tower. The dossier has nothing to do with an email sent by Cambridge Analytica. The dossier really has nothing to do with George Papadopoulos’ meeting in Great Britain.”

In retrospect maybe not a good choice for the Trumpster!

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/trump-mueller-investigation-the-memo_us_5a77189fe4b0905433b51279

[stilldropin20]

Are you implying that the "Right" is all about compromise and making deals?

i'm implying that it is very difficult to have logic based discussion with a group of people that want to turn it into emotional argument because logic wont work. This thread is proof. and its not long before the emotional based crowd starts calling names. discussion ends. negotiations over.

See, here is a perfect teaching moment, right here. As I've said to many of you "emotional" posters before, whether you choose to be baited is entirely your decision. If we were in some forum where people were debating before a group of ill-informed undecideds, I might better understand the passion of rebuttal, but here is just recycled partisan non-msm FAKE NEWS! bullet points offered as "facts" in a lukewarm and watery paste of reasoned analysis, and there's no one in here to hear them. I choose not to debate in such a setting over such minimal stakes. You too can make that choice.

If you really want to make a difference, find some true undecideds and make the case directly to them. There are no undecideds here. If a tree falls in a forest, and Trump wins...you got it: Russia!

ooooh. this doesn't sound like the usual mindless getting to know you useless chit chat. its sound like you got something more to say?

[montestewart]

i'm implying that it is very difficult to have logic based discussion with a group of people that want to turn it into emotional argument because logic wont work. This thread is proof. and its not long before the emotional based crowd starts calling names. discussion ends. negotiations over.

See, here is a perfect teaching moment, right here. As I've said to many of you "emotional" posters before, whether you choose to be baited is entirely your decision. If we were in some forum where people were debating before a group of ill-informed undecideds, I might better understand the passion of rebuttal, but here is just recycled partisan non-msm FAKE NEWS! bullet points offered as "facts" in a lukewarm and watery paste of reasoned analysis, and there's no one in here to hear them. I choose not to debate in such a setting over such minimal stakes. You too can make that choice.

If you really want to make a difference, find some true undecideds and make the case directly to them. There are no undecideds here. If a tree falls in a forest, and Trump wins...you got it: Russia!

ooooh. this doesn't sound like the usual mindless getting to know you useless chit chat. its sound like you got something more to say?

See, this is good. Again the relentless succession of not very sleight slights standing on their own and together synthesizing the omnidirectional hammer of condescension and a self sustaining deniability no more reasoned than the arguments coupled to them, but necessary to maintain character, one that affects offense when someone responds with anger and name calling, though that is clearly the intended response.

Get angry, respond with insults, engage in reasoned debate? These are paths to defeat under these particular circumstances. Why bother? I try to read all posts, but I certainly don't respond to all of them, and non-mods don't need to read or respond to any post.