Political Roundtable Part XXVIII

[dckingsfan]

Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome. "Vote Blue no Matter Who" is a prime example of this phenomena.

Same with #nevertrump?

Nah, I don't believe that "group" ever actually existed.

Fascinating...

[gtn130]

Read on Twitter

LOL Trump supporters. Your King is going to literally kill you

[gtn130]

Maybe it wasn't people moving left to squeeze out Bernie because they didn't like him but rather that people collectively moved left and Bernie fizzled a bit because of it? Maybe Bernie is struggling more facing off against a man than a woman because collectively people have certain biases, whether they know it or not? Maybe Russia's continued attempts to polarize political discourse and effectively divide and conquer are having an effect?

I don't have answers to all of these things.

You don't have answers to these things because I guess you aren't paying attention.



Bernie is consistently winning the under 40 vote in every single state. He's losing the nomination because olds are afraid of Socialism + both groups live in entirely different media universes. Olds watch cable news and young people are on the internet. All of your theory crafting on why Bernie lost is nonsense.

[Ruzious]

Yeah, I've never even heard of the internet. Them young whippersnappers are always using it... when they're not on my lawn.

[dckingsfan]

Bernie is consistently winning the under 40 vote in every single state. He's losing the nomination because olds are afraid of Socialism + both groups live in entirely different media universes. Olds watch cable news and young people are on the internet. All of your theory crafting on why Bernie lost is nonsense.

I am afraid of socialism. I am not afraid of democratic socialism. I like fixing the tax code first. Then talking about wealth taxes. I want to attack climate change - but I hate how the GND was structured. I want healthcare for everyone - but I don't think Bernie's M4A is the fastest or best way forward.

I think Bernie didn't win because he wasn't able to build a coalition (he wasn't able to secure the black or older vote) and always went to the left of the most left candidate to the point that his policies didn't stick with a majority.

And here is the kicker - he was doing well when he was one of many candidates - but he always traded in the 20 to 30 percent range. So, although he was a strong candidate, he was never "the" candidate.

What I am saying is that Bernie was never really "winning". But I don't think he lost either... he moved the progressive movement forward. Now, will that continue to be a success? Let's see how Bernie does passing the torch to the younger folks? Let's see if he can make it all about the movement and not all about Bernie.

[dckingsfan]

Yeah, I've never even heard of the internet. Them young whippersnappers are always using it... when they're not on my lawn.

yeah, more and more of us old folks are unplugging (sub 65)... and I don't know that it is reflected in today's politics.

But gtn does have a good point. Young folks in the Democratic Party are shifting progressive.

[Ruzious]

Yeah, I've never even heard of the internet. Them young whippersnappers are always using it... when they're not on my lawn.

yeah, more and more of us old folks are unplugging (sub 65)... and I don't know that it is reflected in today's politics.

But gtn does have a good point. Young folks in the Democratic Party are shifting progressive.

Hey, we're all God's creatures. We don't vote as 18 year olds or 58 year olds - we vote as individuals.

And if people of any age don't care enough to vote, they're probably not exactly passionate about their beliefs.

[Zonkerbl]

Man if Bernie loses by double digits in Michigan that's going to be just brutal

RIP my twitter feed

Did it?

52.89% v 36.39%

Oh man. Dogs and cats living together. Mass hysteria.

[pancakes3]

trump, reading off a teleprompter, gave an 10 minute speech and managed to mess even that up. he said that all trade with Europe was suspended (just human travel) and that insurance companies were waiving copays for treatment (just testing).

just the leader america needs right now in its time of crisis.

[Pointgod]

trump, reading off a teleprompter, gave an 10 minute speech and managed to mess even that up. he said that all trade with Europe was suspended (just human travel) and that insurance companies were waiving copays for treatment (just testing).

just the leader america needs right now in its time of crisis.

Yet supposedly Biden is the one who’s mentally unfit

[Zonkerbl]

Same with #nevertrump?

Nah, I don't believe that "group" ever actually existed.

Fascinating...

I agree, it was a very, very small number of elite intellectuals who were saying things a lot of people wanted to hear, so what they had to say got a lot of air time on social media. Their numbers are not statistically different from zero.

[gtn130]

Nah, I don't believe that "group" ever actually existed.

Fascinating...

I agree, it was a very, very small number of elite intellectuals who were saying things a lot of people wanted to hear, so what they had to say got a lot of air time on social media. Their numbers are not statistically different from zero.

Yeah. I've been saying this for years now. The Never Trumpers do not matter electorally.

[gtn130]

I am not afraid of democratic socialism.

Should have voted for Bernie then

I think Bernie didn't win because he wasn't able to build a coalition (he wasn't able to secure the black or older vote) and always went to the left of the most left candidate to the point that his policies didn't stick with a majority.

The first part is true, but I don't agree with the reasons why. I think the media and Democrats are largely opposed to him and it has a massive reverberating effect on older voters who watch MSNBC and CNN and have lived their entire lives looking at mainstays of the Democratic establishment as totems of authority.

And here is the kicker - he was doing well when he was one of many candidates - but he always traded in the 20 to 30 percent range. So, although he was a strong candidate, he was never "the" candidate.

What I am saying is that Bernie was never really "winning". But I don't think he lost either... he moved the progressive movement forward.

I agree with all of that.

[I_Like_Dirt]

You don't have answers to these things because I guess you aren't paying attention.



Bernie is consistently winning the under 40 vote in every single state. He's losing the nomination because olds are afraid of Socialism + both groups live in entirely different media universes. Olds watch cable news and young people are on the internet. All of your theory crafting on why Bernie lost is nonsense.

I'm in my 30s thank you very much. And for what it's worth if it were my choice between Bernie or Biden, I'd take Bernie every time. It isn't my choice, though, and Bernie has some serious problems. Honestly, this is getting out of hand. Even AOC seems to understand the need for reflection and an attempt to change to get better and she seems to be starting to be a bit vilified for it. I have waaaaay more hopes for AOC than Bernie when it comes to actually making significant changes and it's not just because she's younger and has more time to be at it. She strikes me as being far more adaptable and willing to learn rather than simply assuming she has all the answers.

But hey, continue to tell me how all the young people have answers and anyone over 40 doesn't. The answer is honestly a collective amalgamation of everything. A lot of what Bernie is doing has been tried a fair few times throughout history and expecting it to suddenly work out better this time around just because people who don't have a clear understanding of history think it will is eye-opening. And no, I don't think older people have inherently more knowledge in that respect, either. But only playing the game one way and then getting mad when you lose the same way every time and blaming others rather than trying to play different ways. It's like a basketball team that only ever plays on the fast break and then just stops entirely when the break is over and then gets mad that their opponents demand they have set offenses or play defense beyond running back. Bernie needs to be a better leader than this if he wants to win but he's been at it so long it's long past clear he isn't changing.

[dckingsfan]

Fascinating...

I agree, it was a very, very small number of elite intellectuals who were saying things a lot of people wanted to hear, so what they had to say got a lot of air time on social media. Their numbers are not statistically different from zero.

Yeah. I've been saying this for years now. The Never Trumpers do not matter electorally.

you two have a point there. But the group has influence and money, IMO they are more influential than you are giving them credit.

But it isn't a hill that I would die on.

[I_Like_Dirt]

you two have a point there. But the group has influence and money, IMO they are more influential than you are giving them credit.

But it isn't a hill that I would die on.

I'd say you're both right on that end. They have massive wealth and influence but that influence has largely disappeared in an ever-polarizing political landscape and a lot of them have simply joined in on the grab and dash political environment we're currently in. Electorally, no, I don't think they really matter, either. Even if you assume they might not vote or even vote Democrat, they're going to do that because they hate Trump so much, not because of anything any Democrats have done or who their nominee is. If they do hold their noses and vote Trump, they'll be sure to hand wave and blame the Democrats for "forcing" them to vote Trump rather than owning his policies. We love our rights but we also love to duck and cover where responsibilities are concerned.

[dckingsfan]

I am not afraid of democratic socialism.

Should have voted for Bernie then

I think Bernie didn't win because he wasn't able to build a coalition (he wasn't able to secure the black or older vote) and always went to the left of the most left candidate to the point that his policies didn't stick with a majority.

The first part is true, but I don't agree with the reasons why. I think the media and Democrats are largely opposed to him and it has a massive reverberating effect on older voters who watch MSNBC and CNN and have lived their entire lives looking at mainstays of the Democratic establishment as totems of authority.

And here is the kicker - he was doing well when he was one of many candidates - but he always traded in the 20 to 30 percent range. So, although he was a strong candidate, he was never "the" candidate.

What I am saying is that Bernie was never really "winning". But I don't think he lost either... he moved the progressive movement forward.

I agree with all of that.

I didn't vote for any candidate - I was always going to work for whichever candidate rose from the ashes. First, I worked to get as many folks registered as I could. Now, I am going to try to get them to the polls (which is going to be interesting given the voter suppression tactics the Rs are laying down in Harris County).

We get to agree to disagree on why Bernie couldn't build a coalition. First, it was never in his wheelhouse to do so. Second, he ran on "revolution" to get rid of the same candidates those folks identified with.

[dckingsfan]

you two have a point there. But the group has influence and money, IMO they are more influential than you are giving them credit.

But it isn't a hill that I would die on.

I'd say you're both right on that end. They have massive wealth and influence but that influence has largely disappeared in an ever-polarizing political landscape and a lot of them have simply joined in on the grab and dash political environment we're currently in. Electorally, no, I don't think they really matter, either. Even if you assume they might not vote or even vote Democrat, they're going to do that because they hate Trump so much, not because of anything any Democrats have done or who their nominee is. If they do hold their noses and vote Trump, they'll be sure to hand wave and blame the Democrats for "forcing" them to vote Trump rather than owning his policies. We love our rights but we also love to duck and cover where responsibilities are concerned.

Yeah, that group didn't have much backbone outside of the Romneys of this world.

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

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[I_Like_Dirt]

Read on Twitter

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It's stuff like this that creates the adage that war/disaster/whatever is good for business. It really isn't. When you add up everything it costs a ridiculous amount. It does create some openings for profiteering, though, because there's too much to deal with at once. If a person wants to return to the US, they're going to go to one of those countries that has a Trump resort to do it, and some of those people will probably even stay at Trump resorts. If the president thinks it's a good idea to cluster a bunch of people together trying to fly and then shuttling them back to the US... I suppose it must be a good idea?