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Jump into the Poole Party: The Official Jordan Poole Thread

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Re: Jump into the Poole Party: The Official Jordan Poole Thread 

Post#121 » by payitforward » Mon Sep 4, 2023 2:30 pm

:) Good point, doc! Team success is a long-term project, but every one of the new additions is a point of immediate interest!

Can Poole keep moving towards his high potential?
Can Shamet get his career back on track?
Does Gallo have anything left in the tank?
Will Jones be as good as we all expect him to be?
Will Bilal show his potential right away?
Who, really, is Patrick Baldwin?
Is Rollins just a trade throw-in, or does he have real NBA potential?
Can an Australian MVP be a solid NBA player?
Does Daniel Gafford have another development step in him?

...etc. etc. etc.
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Re: Jump into the Poole Party: The Official Jordan Poole Thread 

Post#122 » by doclinkin » Mon Sep 4, 2023 8:48 pm

payitforward wrote::) Good point, doc! Team success is a long-term project, but every one of the new additions is a point of immediate interest!

Can Poole keep moving towards his high potential?
Can Shamet get his career back on track?
Does Gallo have anything left in the tank?
Will Jones be as good as we all expect him to be?
Will Bilal show his potential right away?
Who, really, is Patrick Baldwin?
Is Rollins just a trade throw-in, or does he have real NBA potential?
Can an Australian MVP be a solid NBA player?
Does Daniel Gafford have another development step in him?

...etc. etc. etc.


Does NCAA Championship Most Outstanding Player Jared Butler have anything for the NBA game? Maybe he and Gonzaga alum Corey Kispert can re-battle that championship game in practice.

Mike Muscala's high post game seems a good fit for the offense Wes likes to play. Given Gafford's history of short minutes, how does Moose maximize the extra minutes available? Can he sustain 40% 3fg while playing 20+ minutes a game? Given the notable difference between his and Gafford's games, how does the team play two entirely different systems when either is on the floor without the other?

And since you brought up Gafford, can he and Tyus Jones develop a chemistry that renews his game?

Ultimately though, appropriate to this thread, the player I am most curious about is Jordan Poole. I'm curious how much of last year was from heartbreak and protest. The W's bet on Draymond Green over the next few years, rewarding him with a giant contract which ultimately forced Jordan off the team before his own extension was to kick in.

DC is ready to fall in love with their basketball team, the DMV loves scrappy guards. Poole has a perfect opportunity to fight his way into the national conversation in a good way, write his own story. We had three 20 point scorers last year, and lost 40 of those points. The shots are available for him to put up some eye-popping totals. He has a chance to star, more than any other player on the team. We fell for Westbrook on his redemption year, loved John Wall no matter his rehab or social media mishaps. Emotionally speaking we still hold Arenas' jersey in the rafters. (Many still hold a spot for Terps Steve Blake and Juan Dixon; and the Hoya's Iverson of course). Show us something good and you are going to hear about it. The DMV raises some of the best guards and wing players in the league.

I get the feeling this team could be exciting to cheer for. Poole on a revenge mission, surrounded by smart team players who know their role and play well around him, with outside shooting at every position, that's the profile of a team that could get hot at any moment and peel off some runs, both in games and in win streaks.

Consider some of the various parts of the whole:

The most efficient set-up PG in the game in Tyus, who has been league best in Ast/TO the past 5 years.

Efficient scoring potential inside and out. The most effective interior scorer in Gafford, leading the league in raw FG% at above 70%. An unsustainably hot outside/inside scorer in Kispert, posting a 66% true shooting rating, over 40% from 3. Skilled outside-shooting veteran bigs in Gallo and Moose, plus catch and shoot outside gunner Shamet --all averaging about 39% from 3 over their careers. At PG, 40% 3pt shooting from Jones.

Defensive tools. Switchable skilled defense from Deni who ranked among the league best defenders for portions of the past 2 years. Likewise in Delon Wright, a notable defender at guard. Kuzma with good length, solid rebounding totals for a stretch forward. Gafford deterring shots at the rim. Defensive potential in youth like Johnny D, Jared Butler. All-Defense potential in Bilal.

Speed mismatches for uptempo play. Gafford, Kuz, Deni all tend to be quicker up the court than their match-up. Poole and Jones join from teams that run efficient fast pace transition offenses. We have depth of youth to be able to run all game long, all season long, if the coaching staff is generous with developmental minutes. A player like Johnny Davis will give maximum hustle every minute he earns. Bilal adding smooth athleticism and foot speed.

We need upgrades in a physical screen setting enforcer/rebounder/defender type. Especially if they can score efficiently inside/out. But yeah so does everybody.

But what we do have is at least one potential star player who may be able to assert his will on the game. Attacking the rim, racking opponent fouls, unafraid to take the big shot. Should be fun to watch.
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Re: Jump into the Poole Party: The Official Jordan Poole Thread 

Post#123 » by DCZards » Tue Sep 5, 2023 1:37 pm

doclinkin wrote:DC is ready to fall in love with their basketball team, the DMV loves scrappy guards. Poole has a perfect opportunity to fight his way into the national conversation in a good way, write his own story. We had three 20 point scorers last year, and lost 40 of those points. The shots are available for him to put up some eye-popping totals. He has a chance to star, more than any other player on the team. We fell for Westbrook on his redemption year, loved John Wall no matter his rehab or social media mishaps. Emotionally speaking we still hold Arenas' jersey in the rafters. (Many still hold a spot for Terps Steve Blake and Juan Dixon; and the Hoya's Iverson of course). Show us something good and you are going to hear about it. The DMV raises some of the best guards and wing players in the league.

But what we do have is at least one potential star player who may be able to assert his will on the game. Attacking the rim, racking opponent fouls, unafraid to take the big shot. Should be fun to watch.

I’m a Washington Nats fan and attend 10-15 games most seasons. This has been a fun year of low expectations and surprising overachievement. The Nats have a bunch of “scrappy” players, like Lane Thomas, who has been one of the best hitters in bball this season and has a shotgun for an arm. Then there’s the uber-talented CJ Abrams who has star potential, and our young catcher, Ruiz, has come on strong as a hitter the second half of the season. Josiah Gray and McKenzie Gore look like long-term outstanding starting pitchers and I love how Kyle Finnegan has become a shutdown closer.

Plus there’s top tier talent like Dylan Crews and James Wood in the pipeline.

I’m expecting a similar experience and vibe from the Zards this upcoming season, with the backcourt of Poole and Jones leading us to more Ws than we anticipate…while Bilal, Kispert, Davis, and Deni give us hope for the future.

I’m also very intrigued (maybe unduly so) by what the Zards might have in Patrick Baldwin Jr.

You talking past Bullets/Wizards guards? Don’t forget one of my all-time favs from my hometown and the fount of great PG play—NYC. I’m talking about Rod Strickland. And it was a tough-minded NYC PG, Tom Henderson, who in 1978 helped lead the home team to its only NBA championship.
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Re: Jump into the Poole Party: The Official Jordan Poole Thread 

Post#124 » by payitforward » Tue Sep 5, 2023 2:14 pm

Love it, Zards! :)

Plus, in a big way, it doesn't even matter much how many games we *win* this season -- it matters far more how hard we play, how the young'uns look, how the team "feels" as it coalesces around a changed core.

More than wins, here's what I'd really like to see:

significant further development from Avdija & Kispert
a return to his 3d-year form (or better!) from Poole
the expected high level of play from Jones
one more developmental step from Gafford
flashes of the tremendous player Bilal seems capable of becoming
positive development in the play of Davis, Baldwin & Rollins

Now, if we got all that (a lot to ask, obviously) plus the big year I've predicted for Kuz -- of course we'd do well. :)

Go Wizards!
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Re: Jump into the Poole Party: The Official Jordan Poole Thread 

Post#125 » by doclinkin » Tue Sep 5, 2023 5:31 pm

DCZards wrote:I’m expecting a similar experience and vibe from the Zards this upcoming season, with the backcourt of Poole and Jones leading us to more Ws than we anticipate…while Bilal, Kispert, Davis, and Deni give us hope for the future.

I’m also very intrigued (maybe unduly so) by what the Zards might have in Patrick Baldwin Jr.

You talking past Bullets/Wizards guards? Don’t forget one of my all-time favs from my hometown and the fount of great PG play—NYC. I’m talking about Rod Strickland.


Hot Rod is a player who gets props from players of that era as one of the most underrated cats in the game. I loved his game. Right, he reminds me of every other NYC guard who played in "The Cage" at west 4th street in the village. I never made it up to Rucker park, but did catch a few games there. I may be inventing a memory but I swear I saw Rod. Though 'saw' is an overstatement since the crowd was always 10 deep. (The best view was if you could boost up a tree or stand on a trash can/newspaper box). I did see 'Skip 2 my Lou' Rafer Alston once. Even if mostly he was uptown.

The cage was such a short court that it makes sense to me that Rod a) could dribble through the thickest crowds and b) never learned to shoot the 3.

On Baldwin, I agree on the intrigue. He seems far more skilled than his effect on the court or stat line so far. He looks like he belongs. Players like this always remind me how unfathomable the talent is at the NBA level. Can't miss prospects flame out every year. Luck, health, fire, opportunities, development, competition, coaching, you need everything PLUS talent and work ethic. I want PBJ to be good, I hope he is. He will have a great role model for his game in Galinari. And will play on a team that features tall wing players who shoot from range. He can understudy for Kuzma and should be able to run in some of the same plays and sets in ways that Deni doesn't (Xavier Cooks would be the Deni xerox, if we needed two of him).

We have enough intriguing story lines for basketball heads who follow the team closely. Poole gives us a national profile, even if they will only write one piece about him until he re-scripts the narrative. But for the cognoscenti, rapid development of Bilal, solving the Deni question, the continued advancement of Davis from supposed bust to playable, these are all the things that make me eager for whatever happens this year.

The offseason is maddening in years like this. Too quiet. It's a good thing considering the alternatives and players in the past. But still.
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Re: Jump into the Poole Party: The Official Jordan Poole Thread 

Post#126 » by penbeast0 » Wed Sep 6, 2023 2:11 pm

Didn't like Strickland's game, he used to drive me nuts walking the ball up court then standing around for half the shot clock dribbling in place while everyone set up rather than attacking immediately like a Kevin Porter or Michael Adams to create chaos and opportunities. Plus, the hot dog game and all the rumors of lack of effort in practice, ignoring coaches, etc. Stats looked better than the actual impact from what I saw.

Porter may have been my favorite Wizards point guard. (He, Earl, or Muggsy!) I remember one year Kevin Loughery changed the half court set to everyone coming out almost to the half court line than having them all attack the basket like a fast break to try to take advantage of Porter's drive and dish skills. Probably not the most efficient offense but it was fun.

I wish we had gotten more picks out of the Beal, Porzingis, and Morris moves but I completely agree with the Wiz new direction and am looking forward to watching the team more and complaining less than I have in a long time. :thumbsup:
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Re: Jump into the Poole Party: The Official Jordan Poole Thread 

Post#127 » by TGW » Wed Sep 6, 2023 4:33 pm

Loved Rod Strickland.
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Re: Jump into the Poole Party: The Official Jordan Poole Thread 

Post#128 » by badinage » Wed Sep 6, 2023 10:20 pm

penbeast0 wrote:I remember one year Kevin Loughery changed the half court set to everyone coming out almost to the half court line than having them all attack the basket like a fast break to try to take advantage of Porter's drive and dish skills. Probably not the most efficient offense but it was fun.


This sounds like a fantastic idea — I’d love to see us try it again. Would it work? Who knows? But it would be interesting, and a refreshing change from the thoughtless conventionality/conformity of most offenses.

I loved KP too. That stutter-step! So much fun.
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Re: Jump into the Poole Party: The Official Jordan Poole Thread 

Post#129 » by badinage » Wed Sep 6, 2023 10:24 pm

Something we’re not talking about — just how much shooting this team is going to have.

Jones, Gallinari, Muscala, Poole, Kispert, and Shamet can all shoot.

Kuz is streaky, but can shoot too. Baldwin looks like he can stroke it, too.

Very different from the past few years.

In particular, it ought to help players like Deni and Billy Cool.
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Re: Jump into the Poole Party: The Official Jordan Poole Thread 

Post#130 » by badinage » Wed Sep 6, 2023 10:30 pm

TGW wrote:Loved Rod Strickland.


On the Knicks and Portland, sure.

Here, he was a poster boy for half-heartedness and malaise.

And I hated that team with him and Juwan Howard and Mitch Richmond — every listless, don’t-give-a-sh*t game they played a painful, scarring reminder of the horrific Chris Webber trade.
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Re: Jump into the Poole Party: The Official Jordan Poole Thread 

Post#131 » by doclinkin » Fri Sep 8, 2023 8:04 am

badinage wrote:Something we’re not talking about — just how much shooting this team is going to have.

Jones, Gallinari, Muscala, Poole, Kispert, and Shamet can all shoot.

Kuz is streaky, but can shoot too. Baldwin looks like he can stroke it, too.

Very different from the past few years.

In particular, it ought to help players like Deni and Billy Cool.


Right.

I crawled through shot charts of each player on one of these threads. Most of our shooters have a spot on the floor where they shoot significantly above average. I can't find it, buried in the line-ups thread I bet. Basically we have every spot on the outside covered by someone who shoots well.

Tyus Jones, above average at the top of the key, strongest in the corners. Like 40% from one corner, 60% from the other this past season. (And hits 50% of his floaters every year).

Jordan Poole petty much exactly an average shooter from anywhere, over his career. He really likes the left side above the FT line, posts a high volume of shots there. Most solid with a straightaway shot from the top of the arc.

Shamet, stronger to the right and at the top. Solid in both corners.

Wright likes the right elbow above the FT line. About average everywhere else.

Kispert, legitimately good everywhere except with a straightaway shot. He was shooting like 60% from the corners at one point. Still ended up 10% above league average posted in the right corner.

Kuzma hits around 40% from the left corner. Though he should never take a shot from anywhere above the FT line, he hits sub 30% from out there. He shot his best when LeBJ was setting him up of course. And as you mention, he's streaky, wild variance from game to game, more than many. He shoots more on nights when his shot is off. Tries to gun himself out of a cold streak. I'm hoping Jones can hit him in the right spot, feed him when he's hot, miss him when he's off.

Gallo, above average everywhere, stronger on the left.

Muscala above average anywhere on the arc from the FT line and up.

PBJ looks like he can shoot, but so far the sample size is small. Oddly he has shot best from 3 above the FT line, not the corners. Over 40% from the right elbow 3.

A team that relies on the 3 tends to be streaky, but there will be space on the inside for Poole to attack and force fouls, and Gafford to catch and finish.
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Re: Jump into the Poole Party: The Official Jordan Poole Thread 

Post#132 » by AFM » Thu Sep 21, 2023 3:19 pm

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Re: Jump into the Poole Party: The Official Jordan Poole Thread 

Post#133 » by wewillnevertank » Tue Sep 26, 2023 2:19 pm

https://www.monumentalsportsnetwork.com/article/kyle-kuzma-jordan-poole-nba-all-stars-wizards

Last season, there were 14 qualified 25-point scorers and only one of them (Trae Young) was left off the All-Star team. And over the last five years, 56 of the 62 25-point scorers were selected. By that measure, if Kuzma or Poole averages 25-plus points this year, they will have about a 90% chance of being picked.


Interesting footnote by Chase. Seems a bit remiss to ignore that:

1. Beal missed the '19-20 all-star game while averaging 30.5 ppg. So there's already a recent example of us being the exception to the rule.
2. The East is incredibly deep at guard. Haliburton, Brunson, Garland, DeRozan, Butler, Brown, Ball, Holiday, Young, Murray, Cunningham, LaVine and Poole could all end up making a case.
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Re: Jump into the Poole Party: The Official Jordan Poole Thread 

Post#134 » by doclinkin » Tue Sep 26, 2023 11:11 pm

wewillnevertank wrote:https://www.monumentalsportsnetwork.com/article/kyle-kuzma-jordan-poole-nba-all-stars-wizards

Last season, there were 14 qualified 25-point scorers and only one of them (Trae Young) was left off the All-Star team. And over the last five years, 56 of the 62 25-point scorers were selected. By that measure, if Kuzma or Poole averages 25-plus points this year, they will have about a 90% chance of being picked.


Interesting footnote by Chase. Seems a bit remiss to ignore that:

1. Beal missed the '19-20 all-star game while averaging 30.5 ppg. So there's already a recent example of us being the exception to the rule.
2. The East is incredibly deep at guard. Haliburton, Brunson, Garland, DeRozan, Butler, Brown, Ball, Holiday, Young, Murray, Cunningham, LaVine and Poole could all end up making a case.


Deadly list. True. That said Poole has a spotlight, high profile from his Finals heroics, and a narrative. If he is running up numbers I have zero doubt he will get national attention and earn us flex games and conversation even if we are meh in the standings. Who has a more interesting story?

Also hey wee-tank, welcome to the boards.
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Re: Jump into the Poole Party: The Official Jordan Poole Thread 

Post#135 » by wewillnevertank » Tue Sep 26, 2023 11:20 pm

doclinkin wrote:
Also hey wee-tank, welcome to the boards.


Thanks! Excited to find an outlet outside Twitter/Facebook/Reddit.
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Re: Jump into the Poole Party: The Official Jordan Poole Thread 

Post#136 » by AFM » Fri Sep 29, 2023 7:18 pm

This should be good...video drops tonight 8:30 PM EST

https://www.youtube.com/live/oKGmWh1LXUs?si=kzOXPqz23MeHF9-H
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Re: Jump into the Poole Party: The Official Jordan Poole Thread 

Post#137 » by Kanyewest » Fri Sep 29, 2023 11:33 pm

AFM wrote:This should be good...video drops tonight 8:30 PM EST

https://www.youtube.com/live/oKGmWh1LXUs?si=kzOXPqz23MeHF9-H

Video is already out.
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Re: Jump into the Poole Party: The Official Jordan Poole Thread 

Post#138 » by AFM » Sat Sep 30, 2023 12:38 am

Kanyewest wrote:
AFM wrote:This should be good...video drops tonight 8:30 PM EST

https://www.youtube.com/live/oKGmWh1LXUs?si=kzOXPqz23MeHF9-H

Video is already out.


Yeah he released it early. Theres also a lot of wiz locker room footage in here for the old heads!
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Re: Jump into the Poole Party: The Official Jordan Poole Thread 

Post#139 » by doclinkin » Sat Sep 30, 2023 5:51 pm

Gilbert, by the transcript:

so this started in preseason
they were in Japan right they're in Japan
now we know Draymond Green right
you know um he's the type of player you know
Patrick Beverly you know
those guys are the type of player that makes sure everyone is popping all the time right
so he's gonna get the poking boom boom boom boom boom you know what I mean
it's training camp They just won a championship
he want to make sure everybody ain't really
you know got that Championship you know
'I made it'
type of vibe
so from the first ride in Japan to training camp
they said the ride from The Practice Facility
to the hotel is about an hour and a half
so the whole hour and a half to practice
Draymond going to poole
"damn man are you going to win this year? are you going to win a game this year?
are you going to win any practice this year?
you are a loser y'all you can't carry your second team"
and like he did it for five six seven straight days

P never said a word

now I want you to really think about the the mindset of both
well in Jordan poole's case you're you're playing
you're playing against Curry Klay and Draymond right?
you're trying to use your second unit to beat the first unit

now the problem with that is
is they have Curry
now Curry when he practices
ain't no losing
Curry is never losing to no second unit team
that's his mindset
so when they're doing their five on fives
he ain't on that [ __ ]
that we losing to these scrubs
these bench players
so Curry don't lose which means he's always in go mode
which means getting a win against that first unit
is damn near impossible for Jordan and the second unit that he had

so Draymond is using that like
are you going to ever get a win? are you are you ever?
going like like:
'you a champ now. you talking about you want the big money,
carry your second team let's see something'
right
so that's his energy the whole time in training camp
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Re: Jump into the Poole Party: The Official Jordan Poole Thread 

Post#140 » by doclinkin » Sat Sep 30, 2023 5:52 pm

it got so bad that
coach had to step in right
poole never said a goddamn word
P never said a word
Steve Kerr stepped in and pulled Jordan to the side
and put the battery in his back
he said 'come on P you going to let that [ __ ] talk to you like this every goddamn day
stand up for yourself be a man' right
'I'm giving you the okay to talk [ __ ] back
I mean you supposed to be the leader of the second team don't let him just don't let him just punk you
and just say all this [ __ ]
come on say something back'

so Jordan P was like
oh okay okay right

so by the time they got back to San Fran they said
Jordan P was [ __ ] MJ that day
they said Jordan poole
was Jimi Hendrix in that [ __ ] oh yeah
he was Dame Leonard scoring 60

they said every shot he hit [he said]
'y'all can't stop me y'all know what I do
I'm him'
like they said he's in his mode right
and you know Draymond is Draymond
y'all gonna know I know the story because I was using these lines last live
they said Poole was cooking
talking to Draymond
'come on do something Draymond do something huh
huh are you goingon to be carryed your whole career
huh you see me carrying it
huh [Curry is] carrying you
30 carrying you'

Draymond missing like a j or Missing a layup
Jordan P go
'godamn this man can't do [ __ ]
oh he need the team
oh he need you Stars
you can't do what I can do'

unfortunately curry cooking too
Curry and that [ __ ] cooking too
Jordan P [said]
'damn is 30 gonna carry you your whole career huh?
is curry going to carry your whole career? '

so they said Draymond got the ball right
ran point
he got the ball stole it
missed the layup right
Draymond then passed and then I guess
the ball bounced and it got to curry
curry hit the three
game

they say Draymond was talking [ __ ]


[Jordan] said
'good [ __ ] 30 good [ __ ]
keep carrying that man
keep carrying him
you need him to carry you boy
all your championships 30 carried you [ __ ]
you like an accessory'

(Gil: y'all see where I got that [ __ ] from, it was Jordan Poole's line)
'you like an accessory
you like a uh you like a Gucci backpack
you just a very expensive backpack '

they said this man is on on on cloud 9
like everything's clicking
like he must have been home just thinking
'when I get back I'm about to kill this [ __ ] tomorrow'
so he said 'you just an expensive backpack
30 just carrying you oh
he got you on his back'
just doing this
(mimes curry putting on a backpack)
"come on D come on Draymond I got you boy I'mma help you"
right you're just an expensive accessory
like when they go in the store like they getting ready to leave and
someone say hey man this belt match that $3,000 jacket you got
like
sure let me go ahead put that in the bag' he said

so everybody's laughing
they said everyone's laughing at Draymond
they said Jordan P got off
there was nothing Draymond can do
he got off

practice was over
Draymond Green got laughed at

Jordan P finally stood up for himself

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