Will EG make a move before the trade deadline?

[hands11]

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Are you serious? A guy averaging 6 ppg (THAT'S SIX POINTS PER FREAKING GAME) has shown more flashes than any other rookie we've ever had?!?!?!?!

Looks like the Kwame Khorus has found a new poster boy. Now I'll have to hear about unrealized potential for another 3 1/2 years before everybody ends up agreeing with me that this guy isn't going to turn out like they thought.

And what's this about the Wiz having a project for the future? What the heck have we been doing for the last few years, then? You can't keep perpetually developing young player after young player after young player. Eventually you have to decide who you're going to build around and make your run.

The Wiz pretty much have their core of players, including a longterm replacement for Jamison. WE DON'T NEED ANY MORE FUTURE PROJECTS. What we need are established vets who can help us go deep into the playoffs. Why am I the only one who sees this?

I think the reason we haven't made that push yet is because we are still discovering who we can build around and we are cap strapped by players who could be key. AJs contract has had a lot to do with our moves over the last 3 years.

CB has proven to me you can build around him and he is signed but you have 2 other great players who are greatly in question. You also have a coaching issue that well may need addressed and some believe an issue of power involving the Owner, GM and Coach. Sure some other organizations have their problems but this is the Wiz. We were unstable for a very long time and we are still healing. This could still be like the Skins. You think it's getting better then the owner blows it up again.

I was a fan of making a change in the past by trading GA and or AJ while you could get something for them but now really isn't the best time. I also think there is still something unsettled with what we have and how our coach plays them. This is playing out before our eyes. I thought we needed to change coaches starting 2 years ago.

So while we well may have to do what you are suggesting, it's more a question of when is the best time to do it. I don't think right now was the time. I think we still have to play this out the way EG is working it. I believe he likes his talent but not this coach. I think he wants to deal with that first.

If all works out well the rest of this season and into the off-season, we could be looking a lot better for next year. Then maybe going into next years trade deadline we could pull the kind of moves your looking to make. I know that sounds like the same ol same ol but we are stable at 500% and a playoff team while our bigs are getting better and we are still relatively young and not locked into a lot of bad contracts.

This off season while be huge. The biggest questions to me are EJ and GA.

Just my opinion.

[yungal07]

Well you guys were saying Nick won't do anything this season, won't get minutes, won't score buckets and what not before he even played summer league and before the season began. Now that he actually does show potential of being a pretty good scorer in this league, you still don't buy his talents. Why rip on a guy whos pretty much playing to the expecations of a mid first round pick?

I'm glad some of you aren't running this team. You'd trade half the team overnight for overrated vets and useless cap space. Have some patience. Young doesn't have a case of lazyness like Kwame. Hes a blessed athlete whos coachable.

I think some folks just get hard ons for trades - doesn't matter if they're good or bad, just as long as its a trade.

Staying pat was the obvious and only move for this team. The obvious available guys were unwanted. Time to move on, and wait for our stars to get healthy. That's better than trading young players for Tim Thomas and Rasho Nesterovic.

[newslowsad]

Not like I expected us to make a move, but seeing Cleveland get Wallace, even if it is a past his prime Wallace, still makes me jealous. I really hope we do something big this summer, but I know I'm just setting myself to be disappointed like the last two summers.

[hands11]

The thing that kind of irritates me about the Wizards and the reason why I'm losing interest is because the 3 headed monster thing hasn't been working and won't work in the future because the best teams in the league are only getting better! They are further separating themselves from the Wizards.

Arenas, Butler, and Jamison are all wonderful people and easy to cheer for, but the team, as currently constructed, hasn't really ever done anything. I mean the only time that they have actually made any headlines is when Arenas was playing out of his mind for Dec. and Jan. of last year, but then came back to earth before getting hurt. The Wizards used the injuries to Butler and Arenas as a scapegoat last year, but ALL real fans know that they were really struggling before the injuries happened, and were nose-diving down the standing. Case in point, the Portland game last year, but that's a whole nother rant.

The big three method hasn't worked for 4 years and is only losing steam, yet the whole ploy the Wizards are trying to push is that "We had the best record when everyone was healthy last year." That argument is shallow and narrow-sided because they only had the top record in the east for 2 days, and even if they stayed up there for the rest of the season they wouldn't have been able to hang with any of the top 5 or 6 western conference teams had they made the finals.

I mean, even when fully healthy are the Wizards an elite team in the NBA? I think you'd be hard pressed to even find super-homers who'd honestly say that the Wizards could evenly duke it out with the likes of LA, San Antonio, Utah, Houston, or Phoenix in a seven game series?

I just keep thinking to myself that something will change and that the youngsters will come around and gel with the vet, but nothings really progressing. They still have the same bad coach, the same bad contracts (Songaila, Thomas, Daniels), and are spinning their wheels! Where is the direction?

Lately, teams have really been clearly showing their fan base what direction they are heading. They are either stripping cap to rebuild, or they are building for title runs. Unfortunately there are a few teams who haven't done anything over the past several years and are regressing. Washington and Indiana come to mind.

The frustrating aspect about it is that over the past 10 or so games Butler has been out and the Jamison lead Wizards look like a bona fide lottery team. Other "all-stars" play with similar casts of clowns and do well and are competitive. The Wiz have looked awful lately. Jamison has the largest expiring contract in the NBA and should have been able to fetch a mighty return, but what does EG do. Nothing, and what is likely to happen? They

[LyricalRico]

I think the reason we haven't made that push yet is because we are still discovering who we can build around and we are cap strapped by players who could be key.

They already know who to build around. That's why everybody keeps praising "continuity". But they refuse to actually build something above the foundation.

But that foundation is shaky, as several have mentioned that the Big Three concept isn't working. I said after the year the Wiz beat the Bulls in the first round that what they had that year was fools gold (looks like hands11 and I are on the same page). It was fun to watch and they were successful to a point but that's not how you build a good team for the longterm. How many disappointing seasons do we have to endure before the front office gets it?

Think about this - The Wiz are the only team to send more than one player to the All-Star game that's under .500. Everyone else (New Orleans, Denver, Phoenix, Boston, and Detroit) is a contender or in a class just below. Forget about Arenas. The Wiz have had: 1) two All-Stars who were healthy for most of their games, 2) the longest tenured coach in the East, 3) an easy schedule, and 4) this "continuity" that everybody champions.

Yet this team still can't win at least half of their games in a historically bad Eastern Conference. If that doesn't tell you that something's wrong I don't know what will.

[nate33]

Think about this - The Wiz are the only team to send more than one player to the All-Star game that's under .500. Everyone else (New Orleans, Denver, Phoenix, Boston, and Detroit) is a contender or in a class just below. Forget about Arenas. The Wiz have had: 1) two All-Stars who were healthy for most of their games, 2) the longest tenured coach in the East, 3) an easy schedule, and 4) this "continuity" that everybody champions.

Another unfair comparison. The Wizards will well above .500 when they had both of their all stars. We were 23-19 before Butler went down and 2-11 since. Ignoring the first 5 games, we went 23-14 with a healthy Butler.

How good is Detroit if you take away Billups and Rasheed? How good is Cleveland without Lebron and Z? How good is Boston without Garnett and Pierce?

It's just not realistic to gripe about our lack of wins given the injuries. If you want to gripe that our stars are too injury-prone for success, well then you might be on to something. But don't whine about a 25-28 record when Arenas has missed 45 games and Butler has missed 10.

[BruceO]

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Are you serious? A guy averaging 6 ppg (THAT'S SIX POINTS PER FREAKING GAME) has shown more flashes than any other rookie we've ever had?!?!?!?!

Looks like the Kwame Khorus has found a new poster boy. Now I'll have to hear about unrealized potential for another 3 1/2 years before everybody ends up agreeing with me that this guy isn't going to turn out like they thought.

And what's this about the Wiz having a project for the future? What the heck have we been doing for the last few years, then? You can't keep perpetually developing young player after young player after young player. Eventually you have to decide who you're going to build around and make your run.

The Wiz pretty much have their core of players, including a longterm replacement for Jamison. WE DON'T NEED ANY MORE FUTURE PROJECTS. What we need are established vets who can help us go deep into the playoffs. Why am I the only one who sees this?

This is what I wrote. If you are going to quote me do it correctly.
I just don't like trading nick young half a season in when he shown more flashes than most rookies we've ever got. as far as rookies we;ve had he's better than average. Besides he's part of our project for the future and the wiz as a franchise are not being pressured to make moves unlike other franchises



Yeah I am on nick youngs bandwagon. I was before the season started. When everyone dismissed him as a draft pick and I hoped we landed him and we did. So it's six points a game. It's recognized hes a skilled scorer outside the numbers. You think i care its six points when he has shown he can score? Those numbers to me don't matter when he's getting limited minutes on a veteran team. He's not in the same position alot of young guys are in where they go and chuck irrespective of results. If he could go out and let off any shots he can free himself up for he'd be putting up alot of shots. I've seen his matchups and he'll only get better. This isn't a kwame Brown situation where we are talking about an unskilled player.

Aside from that when I mention that we want to keep nick young as a project for the future, your response is we can't keep perputually developing players. What do you think we are doing with Blatche? Pech? Name a team that isnt developing a few players. In the future we'll need young players who have played in our system who have been developed the way the team feels they need to develop. These players aren't going to fall out of the sky. Even if my team was making a run now. Gm's have to plan for the future. A good part of that plan revolves around a teams young players and their development

[Dat2U]

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Another unfair comparison. The Wizards will well above .500 when they had both of their all stars. We were 23-19 before Butler went down and 2-11 since. Ignoring the first 5 games, we went 23-14 with a healthy Butler.

How good is Detroit if you take away Billups and Rasheed? How good is Cleveland without Lebron and Z? How good is Boston without Garnett and Pierce?

It's just not realistic to gripe about our lack of wins given the injuries. If you want to gripe that our stars are too injury-prone for success, well then you might be on to something. But don't whine about a 25-28 record when Arenas has missed 45 games and Butler has missed 10.

You might be on to something there. Fact of the matter is both Caron & Gil seem to have trouble staying healthy. I do assign some blame to EJ on this account b/c of his willingness to ride the big three until the wheels fall off, which has happenned the past two seasons.

But Lyrical makes a great point. For all this great continuity and "success" the Wizards has experienced in the EJ & EG era, what exactly has been accomplished? 45 wins at best in weak sister of a conference? No higher than a 5th seed during that time period? An average of what, 42-43 wins per year? A grand total of 6 playoff wins in 3 years? Is this really something that we should be maintaining continuity for?

To tell you the truth, I think injuries could probably pass as an excuse every single season if we let it. At some point we have to realize injuries are a part of the game and stop waiting for some fairy to wave a magical wand and grant us a year long injury exemption so we can really see how talented this roster is. Frankly that's just not going to happen.

[Dat2U]

CB has proven to me you can build around him and he is signed but you have 2 other great players who are greatly in question.

That's great and all. I'm glad you were absolutely ovulating over that early season stretch when we were like 4 games over .500 and 4th in the pathetic East. Caron really sold you on being a #1 option for a mediocre team playing a charmin soft schedule at the time.

[nate33]

To tell you the truth, I think injuries could probably pass as an excuse every single season if we let it. At some point we have to realize injuries are a part of the game and stop waiting for some fairy to wave a magical wand and grant us a year long injury exemption so we can really see how talented this roster is. Frankly that's just not going to happen.

I agree. That was one of my main points when I started the Why EJ must be fired thread. I didn't think injuries were an excuse last year. Jamison, Butler and Arenas missed an average of 11 games each. That's par for the course in the NBA.

This season is a bit different though. The team has shown the ability to weather some significant injuries, but the loss of Butler was just too much. It's one thing to expect the team to be able to cope with one of the Big Three missing. But when two are missing (particularly the best two), it's unrealistic to expect much success. It's compounded with Daniels out, Stevenson playing on one leg, and Abe unwilling to exceed the luxury tax to give us a full roster.

[fishercob]

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They already know who to build around. That's why everybody keeps praising "continuity". But they refuse to actually build something above the foundation.

But that foundation is shaky, as several have mentioned that the Big Three concept isn't working. I said after the year the Wiz beat the Bulls in the first round that what they had that year was fools gold (looks like hands11 and I are on the same page). It was fun to watch and they were successful to a point but that's not how you build a good team for the longterm. How many disappointing seasons do we have to endure before the front office gets it?

"The Big 3 concept" only exists as a construction of your mind and in the minds of others outside of the team. It's a concept that you -- and others -- are assigning to the Wizards based on your observations.

Ernie Grunfeld has not said "I'm going to get 3 excellent offensive players, build around them with spare parts and sit back and watch the rings roll in." There has been no "refusal" as you say to build around them.

It's easier for great teams to stay great that it is for decent teams to jump to the next level. You need to get lucky. You need Andray Blatche to turn into an all-star, or Dominic McGuire to be the next coming of Dennis Rodman. You need good health.

I understand the frustration, because we haven't been able to see what kind of damage this team can really do. Everyone is tired and broken down and we're watching teams around us trade for big names. But most of this criticism is just silly.

We need a dominant post scorer? No kidding. His name was supposed to be Kwame Brown. Last time I checked, Tim Duncans don't grow on trees. We certainly don't know of Ernie turning down offers to acquire Elton brand, Carlos Boozer or KG. Ernie's done a decent job with the hand he was dealt. This story is a long way from over.

[no D in Hibachi]

The thing is if the Wizards are completely 100% healthy and every player is playing to his absolute potential can they still compete for a championship in this league? As currently constructed, I submit they can not.

What's sad is that the last perimeter oriented big 3 in the league was at least able to make it to the conference finals. (Bucks with Cassell, Allen, Robinson) This current perimeter big 3 hasn't even won a game in the second round, and I don't see anything in the foreseeable future that suggests something will change for the better.

Yeah sure, maybe Blatche and Young can develop into quality players, but by that time the Hawks, Bobcats, Sonics, and Blazers of the world will have their own crop of young stars rising up and we'd still be mediocre.

By the way, does anyone know any crappy 2008 FA that have DS as their initials so EG can waste the whole MLE on him? It seems like he has enjoyed making a habit of destroying the Wizards cap situation with DS's the past two off-season.

[nate33]

The Wizards are no more perimeter oriented than the Detroit Pistons championship squad. Jamison scores in the post as much as Wallace did, and he rebounds better. And Butler gets more on the interior than Rip Hamiltion. Heck, Haywood gets more points in the paint than B.Wallace did too.

The Wizards also score in the paint as much as the Dallas team that made the Finals two years ago.

It can be done. With health, a little luck, and some improvement out of Blatche or Young; this team has the horses to make a run. I don't know if they can do it with EJ though. His tactical mistakes in games may be too much to overcome, even if he does a lot of other things very well.

[LyricalRico]

Gotta disagree nate. Detroit was saavy, world class defensively, and had one of greatest basketball minds of the last 25 years at the helm. The Wiz, on the other hand, have always been a low basketball IQ team with EJ at the helm, still have much to prove on the defensive end, and have a coach with documented in-game issues (as you pointed out).

That Detroit team had and still has so many intangibles that I don't think you can compare the Wizards to them at all. They individual players may be comparable in some ways but the teams are totally different.

The comparison someone made earlier to the Bucks with Allen, Cassell, and Big Dog is much more on target, although that had a much better bench with Tim Thomas and Desmond Mason and also a much better coach.

[nate33]

Gotta disagree nate. Detroit was saavy, world class defensively, and had one of greatest basketball minds of the last 25 years at the helm. The Wiz, on the other hand, have always been a low basketball IQ team with EJ at the helm, still have much to prove on the defensive end, and have a coach with documented in-game issues (as you pointed out).

That Detroit team had and still has so many intangibles that I don't think you can compare the Wizards to them at all. They individual players may be comparable in some ways but the teams are totally different.

I don't think the comparison is that far off. The Wizards have the talent to make it happen and in a couple of years, they might have the basketball IQ too. Arenas can become an even better version of Billups, Haywood this year is playing about as well as Ben Wallace in his best years (though in fewer minutes per game), Butler is better than Rip, Stevenson is comparable to Prince. Jamison is a little better than Rasheed offensively, though a lot worse defensively.

The biggest differences are experience, and Larry Brown.

[Higga]

When comparing the Pistons to the Wiz I think the biggest question mark is Gil to Billups. Remember before Billups got to Detroit he was considered a disappointment after being drafted 3rd overall and bounced around before winning a title as a "grizzled vet." Gil is still young and a lot less mature. That could stem from coaching. EJ seems like a Coach who can get a bad team and make them half decent but can he take a good team and make them great? Hard to tell this year due to injuries...

[Kanyewest]

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I don't think the comparison is that far off. The Wizards have the talent to make it happen and in a couple of years, they might have the basketball IQ too. Arenas can become an even better version of Billups, Haywood this year is playing about as well as Ben Wallace in his best years (though in fewer minutes per game), Butler is better than Rip, Stevenson is comparable to Prince. Jamison is a little better than Rasheed offensively, though a lot worse defensively.

The biggest differences are experience, and Larry Brown.

Haywood may have be better offensively than Ben Wallace was in the past but is nowhere near what Wallace was in rebounding, especially in that 03-04 year where he averaged 15 rpg. I would not put Butler ahead of Hamilton or even Prince yet, considering Butler hasn't shown what he can do in the postseason. Stevenson is a very VERY poor version of Prince.

Detroit also had a very good bench the year they won the title, something which Washington needs to develop. It included Mehmet Okur, Corliss Williamson, Elden Campbell, Lindsay Hunter, Mike James, and Darvin Hamm.

[hands11]

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They already know who to build around. That's why everybody keeps praising "continuity". But they refuse to actually build something above the foundation.

But that foundation is shaky, as several have mentioned that the Big Three concept isn't working. I said after the year the Wiz beat the Bulls in the first round that what they had that year was fools gold (looks like hands11 and I are on the same page). It was fun to watch and they were successful to a point but that's not how you build a good team for the longterm. How many disappointing seasons do we have to endure before the front office gets it?

Think about this - The Wiz are the only team to send more than one player to the All-Star game that's under .500. Everyone else (New Orleans, Denver, Phoenix, Boston, and Detroit) is a contender or in a class just below. Forget about Arenas. The Wiz have had: 1) two All-Stars who were healthy for most of their games, 2) the longest tenured coach in the East, 3) an easy schedule, and 4) this "continuity" that everybody champions.

Yet this team still can't win at least half of their games in a historically bad Eastern Conference. If that doesn't tell you that something's wrong I don't know what will.

Glad to see we are on the same page with the anti Big 3 idea but at the same time Im sorry you felt way also because that means you have had to endure the same pain I have watching the idea live on as long as it has.

Kill the big 3 used to be my sig on the other board. You can imagine how well that went over.

As for all those facts telling us something. For me it's simple. It's the HC.
I have long felt we had the talent. I just thnk it has been mismanaged. I think the big 3 idea lives because EJ gives it life. I think we have played without a PG because EJ allows it by where he plays GA and bye the offense he runs.

For me, the one thing that would have made the biggest difference in our W/Ls would have been a better coach. One that played a PG and who feed the post more. One that would be starting AB by now. One that wouldn't have played Ruffin over Blatche and Haywood, etc, etc.

I still find if ironic that people think that it is/was EJ that keeps us winning in spite of injuries. I think he causes injuries, and even with them he losses more games that our talent should.

I really hope we can find that awesome coach to lead these guys. I wanted EJ to develop into that coach. I pulled for him. But I figured out a long time about, EJ is the fools gold. He learns to slowly and repeated to many mistakes. He is what we know he was, an assistant trying to learn to be a HC. I don't believe he achieved that goal and gave up on him about 2-3 years ago.

[hands11]

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Another unfair comparison. The Wizards will well above .500 when they had both of their all stars. We were 23-19 before Butler went down and 2-11 since. Ignoring the first 5 games, we went 23-14 with a healthy Butler.

How good is Detroit if you take away Billups and Rasheed? How good is Cleveland without Lebron and Z? How good is Boston without Garnett and Pierce?

It's just not realistic to gripe about our lack of wins given the injuries. If you want to gripe that our stars are too injury-prone for success, well then you might be on to something. But don't whine about a 25-28 record when Arenas has missed 45 games and Butler has missed 10.

And AD is breaking down with a bad ankle.
And DS is playing on one knee.

That 3 out of 5 starters and if he played .

AD, GA, CB, AJ, BH

It would be 4 out of 5.

And who played CB max mins off a HIP FLEXER. Stupid move.
Who played Gil max mins off of major knee surgery. Stupid move.
Who rejected the idea of allowing GA to work his way back into the flow by coming off the bench when he returns?

Who has repeatedly played players like AJ max mins off of injures.

People blame our medical staff. Well what about the person who is in charge of their minutes. When are people going to hold EJ accountable for the amount of missed game by these players because he over plays them. Sure players get hurt, but they don't need to break down because they play max minutes from game one and they don't need to miss extra games like CB is right now because the coach over uses them to quickly when they are already hurt.

You can't over play injured players just to get the next win. It's to high a price to play because you may get the one win but then they are out and you loss 8 games. Where is the wisdom?

I laid out line ups and rotations at the start of the year. We should have played GA limited mins to start the season. We should have played our youngs early and often so they could learn so they would be ready later in the year. We should have started AB right away and started feeding the post more. EJ isn't getting it done and he is wasting our time and our talent.

[hands11]

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That's great and all. I'm glad you were absolutely ovulating over that early season stretch when we were like 4 games over .500 and 4th in the pathetic East. Caron really sold you on being a #1 option for a mediocre team playing a charmin soft schedule at the time.

ovulating over that early season stretch ?

Anyway. 4 games over 500 isn't what determines that CB aka Touch Juice and Mr Consistent is someone to build around. 2 all star appearances and what it he did to get selected does. And if you don't get it, you don't get it because the reasons have been posted several times.

Just remember you made that post and come back to eat crow later as CB continues to develop his game and because a star. He isn't done getting better. Coming into next season, I bet he has better one-on-one moves to the hoop.

AJs is a great pieces but he isnt CB and he is getting older. GA has mega talent to score, but he doesn't know how to use all his talent like CB does. If GA had CBs mind for the complete game and leadership, there would be a contest for team leader, but as of today, he doesn't.

Add that you don't even know if GA will sign here, and CB is your franchise player that you can count on building around. That's how it looks as of right now.