The Javale McGee Appreciation Thread

[dobrojim]

what I remember about their run, it was all Allen which had basically nothing
to do with how well JM had played all game. I thought he was a major reason
why BOS was shooting in the 30s for much of the game.

[closg00]

Javale's PER is 16.4. It was 17.0 last season, his first.

Per-36 minutes he averages 13.1 points, 7.3 rebounds, 4.4 blocks, and (only) 1.8 turnovers.

I think the Wizards should have saved their money on Oberto, and invested playing time in McGee long ago. Javale has scored in double figures 4 of the last 5 games, and 7 of the last 10.

I don't see that as having a long way to go, TSW. I think Javale's going to have a monster game pretty soon. Something like a 20/10/8 block game. Teams can't stop Blatche and Javale, for the most part.

The blocks are very impressive. The turnovers are pretty good. The scoring and rebounding are not impressive for a center.

Looking only at his per minute numbers as a starter, here's McGee category by category compared to the 38 centers who have received at least 350 minutes so far this season:

- Points -- 20th
- Rebounds -- 33rd
- Blocks -- 1st
- Turnovers -- 15th (12th using turnover percentage)
- Usage -- 16th
- Offensive Rating -- 25th
- Defensive Rating -- 23rd
- efg -- 23rd
- TS% -- 25th
- FT% -- 29th
- PER -- 17th

These are his per minute numbers solely from the 9 games he's started and compared only to centers. It's good to be optimistic and hopeful about McGee. But it's also good to be realistic about where he is now. I think the idea that he's close to being good if only he'll get in better shape or get more minutes or some other third thing, could ultimately be detrimental to his development if it discourages him from working on his game.

And what the numbers suggest is a guy who's a below-average scorer, a sub-standard rebounder, a poor shooter, and a poor defender. So, yeah -- I think McGee still has a long way to go.

The numbers suggest that you are unfairly comparing McGee to other Centers. McGee spent over half the season on the bench with DNP's - 23 games with ZERO minutes played. It is only post-trade that McGee is finally starting to receive significant playing-time; and it is only in the last TWO games that McGee has cracked 30 minutes.

So you took the 9 games that he started (never mind that he was averaging about 25 mpg in those games) AFTER he had spent the majority of games NOT-starting and NOT playing at all, then compared his numbers against all NBA centers, most of them vets playing every team-game since October???? Unfair TSW. Considering how long it takes for bigs to develop, McGee is doing quite-well when you consider ALL of the facts.

[TheSecretWeapon]

closg -- To whom should I compare McGee? D-League centers? I thought he aspired to be an NBA center, so I thought it would be worth comparing him to the people he'll be competing against. I chose to look solely at McGee's starts because it puts his performance in the light most favorable to McGee.

When considering ALL the facts, I don't think he's doing "quite well." I think ALL the facts indicate that he has oodles of potential, but that he has a long way to go. The NBA doesn't grade on a curve. When we say stuff like it takes a long time for bigs to develop, or talk about him racking up DNPs, what we're doing is making excuses for his performance.

Yes, it often does take some time for bigs to develop. But there are plenty of examples of big guys who were terrific immediately.

Look, I LIKE the kid. I think he was a world of potential. I think he represents the best hope the team has right now of having a bona fide All-Star center. But saying he's doing fine when he's not doesn't help him. His recent playing time has revealed how flawed his game is. I want to see him work on those flaws. The report that he's hitting the weight room is encouraging. But he's NOT a good NBA center. He's not even average right now.

If the Wizards hadn't dropped out of the playoff race, he wouldn't be getting minutes -- because a playoff contender could not afford to have him on the floor right now. Those are the facts about McGee right now. I think he'll get better. How much better depends on how hard he works.

[dobrojim]

the truth - ouch

[WizarDynasty]

The denial ...and probably one the best blocks by a wizard in the last decade....paul pierce coming in for one of his patent throw downs against the wizards except....he hasn't met mr beast unleashed..mcgee...omg watching paul pierces arm going backward as mcgee hand shoved the ball back down pierces throat...made the season for me.
That was first team nba allstar defensive move. Posterized an allstar defensively. I am so glad haywood is gone because haywood really never protected the rim when someone was disrespecting us. Mcgee baby finally stood up for this pathetic defensive franchise and denied the wizards killer himself paul pierce. That my friends was dominance.
Less than two players in the nba are capable of defending the rim mano eee mano. Maybe d. Howard, chris anderson, josh smith and that it. Once mcgee get his dragon ballz power up usually from a dunk...the boy turns from puss to straight beast. The lane is no longer and easy ft from a haywood foul folks. Mcgee is beyond potential now. No more saying the kid is oosing with potential. Once the kid get a power dunk in the game and his adrenaline Is flowing he is on par with first team all nba defensive center. As he gains confidence in flips offensive system...him and blatche are a serious problem. A bigman combination the league has never seen before.

[nate33]

I am so glad haywood is gone because haywood really never protected the rim when someone was disrespecting us.

[WizarDynasty]

U mean the haywood clumsy tackle block that everyone used against us when they needed a point. Yeah I remember that one...a block that leads to two free throws aint really a block and isn't really protecting the rim.
Pierce coming the lane against haywood is an automatic two free throws or a dunk.

[TheSecretWeapon]

Approximately 6,000 years ago someone invented a new way of communicating information. It involved writing (in some form) and reading. Of course, back then, "writing" involved pressing shapes into clay. Since then, we've developed printing presses, efficient language systems, a sophisticated repository for collecting and sharing information, and an educational system to teach individuals how to access and use that collected information. Unfortunately, none of these advancements can stop the idiocy of those who persist in willful ignorance.

[fishercob]

Approximately 6,000 years ago someone invented a new way of communicating information. It involved writing (in some form) and reading. Of course, back then, "writing" involved pressing shapes into clay. Since then, we've developed printing presses, efficient language systems, a sophisticated repository for collecting and sharing information, and an educational system to teach individuals how to access and use that collected information. Unfortunately, none of these advancements can stop the idiocy of those who persist in willful ignorance.

Why do you always pick on me?

[yungal07]

Approximately 6,000 years ago someone invented a new way of communicating information. It involved writing (in some form) and reading. Of course, back then, "writing" involved pressing shapes into clay. Since then, we've developed printing presses, efficient language systems, a sophisticated repository for collecting and sharing information, and an educational system to teach individuals how to access and use that collected information. Unfortunately, none of these advancements can stop the idiocy of those who persist in willful ignorance.

Ouch....

[Ruzious]

The denial ...and probably one the best blocks by a wizard in the last decade....paul pierce coming in for one of his patent throw downs against the wizards except....he hasn't met mr beast unleashed..mcgee...omg watching paul pierces arm going backward as mcgee hand shoved the ball back down pierces throat...made the season for me.
That was first team nba allstar defensive move. Posterized an allstar defensively. I am so glad haywood is gone because haywood really never protected the rim when someone was disrespecting us. Mcgee baby finally stood up for this pathetic defensive franchise and denied the wizards killer himself paul pierce. That my friends was dominance.
Less than two players in the nba are capable of defending the rim mano eee mano. Maybe d. Howard, chris anderson, josh smith and that it. Once mcgee get his dragon ballz power up usually from a dunk...the boy turns from puss to straight beast. The lane is no longer and easy ft from a haywood foul folks. Mcgee is beyond potential now. No more saying the kid is oosing with potential. Once the kid get a power dunk in the game and his adrenaline Is flowing he is on par with first team all nba defensive center. As he gains confidence in flips offensive system...him and blatche are a serious problem. A bigman combination the league has never seen before.

If your dragon balls power was working, you would have noticed Pierce was nowhere near 100%.

We all realize McGee has big-time potential. Most of us realize he hasn't been close to being as good as Haywood was on defense for the Wiz.

[WizarDynasty]

Haywood was an above average man to man post defender and even then he got routinely beat by true post players like freakin kaman. Haywood had horrible agility and was horrible defending guards on the drive because haywood is slow jumping off the ground and he has poor coordination. He is a better post defender because right now he is stronger than mcgee. Offensively haywood was an absolute beast on the offensive boards. Outside of those two areas..haywood sucked. He was an easy foul for any guard driving the lane because he was so slow and uncoordinated. He was horrible defensive rebounder because he was and will forever be uncoordinated. Incapable of making quick reaction movements. The only time haywood wasn t a liability was when he was playing post defense against another slow grinding big.
Hate to burst the worshipping haywood fans but he sucked because he was horrible at grabbibg contested rebounders because of his lack or coordination. No one feared their shot getting cleanly blocked by haywood except slow post players. I would have liked haywood as a backup but he is a below average center offensively, and he is only effective when u have another slow and prodding center with no athleticsm for him to guard.
Unleashed the beast mcgee...now that's my dawg. My only gripe with him was that he avoided contact...not anymore...and that he slowlateral footspeed. Not anymore. These are the good times...so enjoy them. Getting two.... two way starting bigmen happens probably once every fifty years. I can't even think of the last time. Robinson and duncan.. And robinson was old. So two young bigs at center and pf spots that haven't even hit their prime. Webber and wallace..?? So I guess two non psycho bigmen every 50 years.

[Ruzious]

Haywood was an above average man to man post defender and even then he got routinely beat by true post players like freakin kaman. Haywood had horrible agility and was horrible defending guards on the drive because haywood is slow jumping off the ground and he has poor coordination. He is a better post defender because right now he is stronger than mcgee. Offensively haywood was an absolute beast on the offensive boards. Outside of those two areas..haywood sucked. He was an easy foul for any guard driving the lane because he was so slow and uncoordinated. He was horrible defensive rebounder because he was and will forever be uncoordinated. Incapable of making quick reaction movements. The only time haywood wasn t a liability was when he was playing post defense against another slow grinding big.
Hate to burst the worshipping haywood fans but he sucked because he was horrible at grabbibg contested rebounders because of his lack or coordination. No one feared their shot getting cleanly blocked by haywood except slow post players. I would have liked haywood as a backup but he is a below average center offensively, and he is only effective when u have another slow and prodding center with no athleticsm for him to guard.

That's a bunch of dragon dung. Haywood is 3rd among all centers in blocks and rebounds this season. He'd have more defensive rebounds if the rest of the team wasn't so bad on D - there weren't a whole lot of defensive rebounds to go around, and he often had to cover for teammates. And as far as opposing guards getting easy fouls from him, he's got a low foul rate - much lower than Dwight Howard's, for instance. And his defensive +/- numbers are great every year. But don't let facts get in the way of your fantasy.

[WizarDynasty]

Ok so haywood is a top ten center in this league and would have outperformed mcgee vs boston right. Point of this thread is mcgee can play...cosign...and he better than sorry azz haywood.

[Ruzious]

Ok so haywood is a top ten center in this league and would have outperformed mcgee vs boston right. Point of this thread is mcgee can play...cosign...and he better than sorry azz haywood.

Whether he's top 10 or not has nothing to do with the discussion. You complained about Haywood's defensive rebounding - If you're hung about the Boston game, tell us how many defensive rebounds Javale had in that game. Haywood is a much better player than McGee is. McGee has the POTENTIAL... to be the better player.

[closg00]

closg -- To whom should I compare McGee? D-League centers? I thought he aspired to be an NBA center, so I thought it would be worth comparing him to the people he'll be competing against. I chose to look solely at McGee's starts because it puts his performance in the light most favorable to McGee.

When considering ALL the facts, I don't think he's doing "quite well." I think ALL the facts indicate that he has oodles of potential, but that he has a long way to go. The NBA doesn't grade on a curve. When we say stuff like it takes a long time for bigs to develop, or talk about him racking up DNPs, what we're doing is making excuses for his performance.

Yes, it often does take some time for bigs to develop. But there are plenty of examples of big guys who were terrific immediately.

Look, I LIKE the kid. I think he was a world of potential. I think he represents the best hope the team has right now of having a bona fide All-Star center. But saying he's doing fine when he's not doesn't help him. His recent playing time has revealed how flawed his game is. I want to see him work on those flaws. The report that he's hitting the weight room is encouraging. But he's NOT a good NBA center. He's not even average right now.

If the Wizards hadn't dropped out of the playoff race, he wouldn't be getting minutes -- because a playoff contender could not afford to have him on the floor right now. Those are the facts about McGee right now. I think he'll get better. How much better depends on how hard he works.

McGee's current numbers have to placed in their proper context and you didn't provide that. The facts are that he sat for a majority games this season, scant minutes on other nights, and finally has played TWO games with starter minutes. What would you expect the numbers to be for a raw talent like McGee considering those facts?

McGee has some Good to very-good NBA center qualities, some average ones, and some bad ones. Considering how incompetently he has been mis-managed by Flip & Ernie, he's doing pretty well.

[nate33]

Ok so haywood is a top ten center in this league and would have outperformed mcgee vs boston right.

Yes. And yes.

[montestewart]

^
I've had a lot of issues over Jamison, Butler, and Stevenson getting minutes at the expense of developing younger players and the team as a whole, but come on. I always wanted McGee to get some more minutes, but how can you question Haywood over McGee? Someday McGee may develop skills such that he is better than Haywood, but he's a long way from there.

[WizarDynasty]

I already gone on the record and laid out a case as to why haywood is a bottom third of the league center and definitely not in the top fifteen when u evaluate him as a player compared to all of the players in this league who have started games at center. Haywood is a bottom tier non playoff center that would be a bench player on top 8 teams. He is way below average offensive player...poor coordination...he is a horrible passer...and a horrible perimeter defender. Defensively he is a horrible rebounder and horrible challenging shots on the perimeter. He is only good at three things. Shot blocking against slow non athletic bigs, strong post defensive but nothing close to elite and great offensive rebounder and haywood has no upside. This thread is a celebration of how mcgee looks eons better protecting the rim than haywood. Mcgee is also a better help defender and three times better defending the perimeter.
That boy mcgee can play is all ready better than haywood. I never liked brenda as a starter and guess what he is gone. Let's celebrate significant upgrade of defense at center. That boy mcgee can play.

[fishercob]

closg -- To whom should I compare McGee? D-League centers? I thought he aspired to be an NBA center, so I thought it would be worth comparing him to the people he'll be competing against. I chose to look solely at McGee's starts because it puts his performance in the light most favorable to McGee.

When considering ALL the facts, I don't think he's doing "quite well." I think ALL the facts indicate that he has oodles of potential, but that he has a long way to go. The NBA doesn't grade on a curve. When we say stuff like it takes a long time for bigs to develop, or talk about him racking up DNPs, what we're doing is making excuses for his performance.

Yes, it often does take some time for bigs to develop. But there are plenty of examples of big guys who were terrific immediately.

Look, I LIKE the kid. I think he was a world of potential. I think he represents the best hope the team has right now of having a bona fide All-Star center. But saying he's doing fine when he's not doesn't help him. His recent playing time has revealed how flawed his game is. I want to see him work on those flaws. The report that he's hitting the weight room is encouraging. But he's NOT a good NBA center. He's not even average right now.

If the Wizards hadn't dropped out of the playoff race, he wouldn't be getting minutes -- because a playoff contender could not afford to have him on the floor right now. Those are the facts about McGee right now. I think he'll get better. How much better depends on how hard he works.

McGee's current numbers have to placed in their proper context and you didn't provide that. The facts are that he sat for a majority games this season, scant minutes on other nights, and finally has played TWO games with starter minutes. What would you expect the numbers to be for a raw talent like McGee considering those facts?

McGee has some Good to very-good NBA center qualities, some average ones, and some bad ones. Considering how incompetently he has been mis-managed by Flip & Ernie, he's doing pretty well.

Why should McGee's numbers be placed in context if the numbers of everyone else in the data set that he's compared to are not? The "context" for his numbers is that he hasn't been able to get on the court because of poor work habits and poor performance when he's gotten the opportunity.

As TSW said, how does it serve McGee to be an apologist for him? The Wizards should be most demanding of their most talented prospects. As young and raw as McGee is it's of critical importance that he "get it" -- and fast -- if he's going to come close to realizing his potential.