Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4

[Jay81]

if the cavs really think that jonas will be way better than Kanter in 5 years, it wouldnt make any sense to not draft him if he is only going to be out of the NBA for one year during a lockout season. With that being said, i understand why taking him at 4 would seem to high at this point so simply trade 4 to Washington for 6 and 34 and take Jonas at 6

[rockymac52]

if the cavs really think that jonas will be way better than Kanter in 5 years, it wouldnt make any sense to not draft him if he is only going to be out of the NBA for one year during a lockout season. With that being said, i understand why taking him at 4 would seem to high at this point so simply trade 4 to Washington for 6 and 34 and take Jonas at 6

If the Cavs prefer JV and are concerned about his buyout now, this trade seems pretty reasonable.

Wizards I assume take it in a heartbeat, as we don't need 3 more rookies on this squad, and we might as well trade up a couple spots and ensure we get who we want (Kanter, I assume).

[closg00]

With Jonas out, I'll still say we move down, gain more assets, and get Marcus Morris.

He just has the best combination of size, skill, and demeanor in the draft. DX has a new video out where he shows his shooting range and athletic ability:

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Mar ... tage--3765

This guy is going to average 15 and 6 off the bat if he gets the minutes. He possesses arguably the best offensive arsenal in the draft, and he's 6'9 so he's not an undersized shrimp.

If Kanter isn't there -- Morris and Farried are my choices. The two toughest mofos in the draft and they're ready to play now. I'm gonna be pissed cause the Bobcats are going to nab both of those guys and their picking after us both times.

+1 I'm down with this, No Kanter or Jonas? I'd take Morris and be happy, we still have picks 18 & 34.

[tontoz]

With Jonas out, I'll still say we move down, gain more assets, and get Marcus Morris.

He just has the best combination of size, skill, and demeanor in the draft. DX has a new video out where he shows his shooting range and athletic ability:

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Mar ... tage--3765

This guy is going to average 15 and 6 off the bat if he gets the minutes. He possesses arguably the best offensive arsenal in the draft, and he's 6'9 so he's not an undersized shrimp.

If Kanter isn't there -- Morris and Farried are my choices. The two toughest mofos in the draft and they're ready to play now. I'm gonna be pissed cause the Bobcats are going to nab both of those guys and their picking after us both times.

I see some Al harrington in there -- which may be fine as long as he's willing to play his role and isn't ridiculously overpaid.

I saw Harrington a lot with the Hawks. His big problem his whole career is that teams keep putting him at the 4. He can't defend the 4 because he is undersized with no hops and he struggles to score against the length of 4s. At the 3 he was effective on both ends, surprisingly so at times.

I feel the same way about Morris. I think he will be good at the 3 and i would definitely take him at 6 if Kanter isn't available. He should be a better version of Harrington. It took Al a long time to develop a reliable jumper while Morris seems to have one already.

By the time Al did develop his jumper he had lost some athleticism due at least in part to knee and back surgeries.

[Geaux Wiz]

After thinking about it, I'm surprised that Minnesota isn't thinking about JV, I'm not a big fan of his but it seems like he'd fit in good with there system and he does have a lot of potential

I'd be bitter if we go Morris at 6, seems like a worse version of Antawn Jamison to me. But if we could trade down I'd be more interested in him

If Sullinger, Barnes, P. Jones and T. Jones all entered, how do you guys think lottery would go?

1) Cavs: Irving
2) T-Wolves: Williams
3) Jazz: Knight
4) Cavs: Barnes
5) Raptors: P. Jones
6) Wiz: Sullinger
7) Kings: T. Jones
8) Pistons: Walker
9) Bobcats: Kanter
10) Bucks: Vesly
11) Warriors: K. Thompson
12) Jazz: Marcus Morris
13) Suns: Fredette
14) Rockets: Valancunias

[rockymac52]

I think we'd be looking at Kanter as a worst case scenario then. Irving, Williams, Sullinger, P. Jones, and Barnes would all be great pickups for the Wizards. Then there's the drop off.

So we might be looking to trade up still, or also possibly down, because if our guy isn't there at 6, we might as well gain some assets and let someone who needs a PG (Knight or Walker) get their guy.

So basically a very similar situation to the one that we're in now, except there's more talent available, and it's be easier to trade down or up (I suspect).

Oh well, let them add to the stacked 2012 draft class, and hopefully we can stockpile picks.

[doc.end]

off topic but... what's the significance of the pen thief in your signature?

Just look at the flags and google both countries (together) It went viral quite a bit since I'd had this sig.









*Czech Republic and Chile it is*

[Rafael122]

DX's latest mock draft, awful: http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2011

Ford will have another one up tomorrow.

Jordan Hamilton and that center from USC are coming back for a workout.

[fishercob]

DX's latest mock draft, awful: http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2011

Ford will have another one up tomorrow.

Jordan Hamilton and that center from USC are coming back for a workout.

Ha ha, yeah. That's the worst case, no?

I was watching a draft preview show on NBATV and they had David Blatt on talking about the Euro prospects. He said Valanciunus was the best long term prospect in the draft. He absolutely crushed Motiejunas and said he wouldn't touch him. Was highly critical of Vesely as well for all the reasons we've discussed. He said he's only want Vesely in the perfect situation.

Blatt has serious cred IMO. If Kanter is off the board, I'll breath a sigh of relief if we take Leonard. I'm done being contrarian for the sport of it; I want no part of Vesely!

[hands11]

Brooks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9v8W2pumHX8

I want this kid on the team. I think he would run great with Wall. A more mature Nick Young. I think most would agree that would be a great asset. Wall wants to be a PG more than a Derrick Rose type. And I think Crawford is the perfect hybrid back up PG who can also score when needed as a PG/SG. You need a solid SG who can shoot with range if you want to win and Brooks could be a star. He was a PG so he has handles.

That would make Nick, who is a great talent, trade bait this year or next if they want. I side with keeping him another year and storing up his trade value.

Wall, Brooks and Crawford would have a **** load of talent at the 1 and 2. And maybe for one year, you have Wall, Nick, Crawford and Brooks while Brooks learns the ropes. That would be sick.

I am leaning toward trading down the 6th or if they can purchase a pick so they can get another mid round pick so we can load up. They are not looking to win it all next year so load up.

There is lots of talent in this draft that I would like to see on this team and if we get the right players, it should help them trade or transition from other assets they already have such as Lewis, maybe Nick and maybe Dray. Doing this, in 2012 I see tons of assets and a great cap.

Tobias Harris seems like the perfect work horse glue guy multi position player. A sure value his projected slot.

Vucevic would be a good complement to help at center and some power forward.

Then add a pure shooter at SF in Harper.

Wall, Crawford
Nick, Brooks
Booker, Tobias, Harper
Dray, Lewis, Serpahin
McGee, Vucevic

Hamady, Jeffers and Tyler if you can get him by purchasing a pick.

Then you can transition from Lewis or trade Nick if it makes sense moving forward but until then, Lewis is insurance at SF also. Maybe even move Dray if Tyler is a beast. You could get some assets for Dray. Add that to Nick and you can get something good for Dray and Nick.

Captains are Wall and Lewis
Amazing guard play.
Two workers at SF and Tobias has a better shot. Lewis is the vet.
PF is set with Dray being the all around player. Lewis being the vet with long ball and Seraphin beef
Vuc rounds out McGee by putting a mature player down there with size. Plus Dray can play there.

Then you have Hamady growing up in the background as a shot blocking defensive center.
Tyler get to transition in the D league where they can see if he is a PF of the future.

This would be the most talent well rounded team we have had in maybe forever and it would set them up to move forward.

At some point this idea of Booker at SF will die. To play on the perimeter, one must have the skills to do so. Booker has no perimeter skills whatsoever. He can't shoot. He can't take more than two dribbles. He's not much of a passer or facilitator. It's trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Your clogging up Wall's driving lanes b/c no one will respect Booker 20 ft away from the basket. And the times he played away from the basket last year he looked completely lost.

Booker at SF is fair from dead. Longer term he may end up backing up SF though specially if we get Tobias. Him starting there to start the season is just that, to start the season. This would not be a finished product. Tobias has to find his way through the first season which will likely be a short one.

Booker played his most inspired ball to end the season at SF. Wall will develop a respectable outside shot and he will fast break a lot. Plus he wants to be a more pure PG. Booker can run, jump and finish/dunk. And he developed a nicer post game later in the year. And nail can he get up. He wouldn't be in there to be Melo SF. He is there for his strength, rebounding, defensive and dunks/finishing. Hopefully he will have added a 10 footer over the summer. That is all he needs for now. Even Booker at PF is fighting to hold a starting position unless he develops his game more so he is longer term a likely back up either way.

Nick adds the pure shooter at SG and Brook is the game only younger and smarter.
Dray has an inside outside game.
McGee runs like a Deer and dunks and hopefully has worked on that hook and a 10 footer.
Lewis can also play inside and out.
Harper add the long ball at SF when you need that. His game will also develop.
And V plays inside and out.

Even as young as they are, there is balance. And it will only get better. Plus you can move players and consolidate later. All these young player better improve something about there games this offseason if they want to stick around longer term. I expect everyone to have improved something.

[TGW]

Leonard would be worst than Vesely IMO. At least Vesely has some upside. Leonard is a mid-round pick in a good draft. I don't know how that guy all of sudden became lottery material.

[closg00]

Nikola Vucevic most-likely won't be there @ 18, but I'm glad we are checking him out anyway.

The Knicks have just concluded a hush-hush workout in which they got their second looks at Marshon Brooks, Josh Selby, Darius Morris, Jeremy Tyler and Nikola Vucevic. Those five were joined at Monday's workout by a much lower-rated player on Mock Draft boards, Mississippi State senior Ravern Johnson, a 6-foot-7 shooting guard who made more than 40 percent of his 3-point attempts in each of his last two seasons.

[fishercob]

Leonard would be worst than Vesely IMO. At least Vesely has some upside. Leonard is a mid-round pick in a good draft. I don't know how that guy all of sudden became lottery material.

Because he was the star of a top-10 team mayhaps? I don't expect him to be a star at the next level, but I expect him to be solid -- bits of Deng and Trevor Ariza. I don't see him as an Al Thornton type of bust, but it's possible.

[WizarDynasty]

Yeah i want no part of tobias harris. He looks like a robot out there. Tremendously non fluid and doesn't have fine body control movement and once he is starts moving he loses the ability to stop his body's momentum and change directions. i saw nbadraft mocking us with that pick and no way in the world would i touch him with a ten foot pole.

[tontoz]

Leonard would be worst than Vesely IMO. At least Vesely has some upside. Leonard is a mid-round pick in a good draft. I don't know how that guy all of sudden became lottery material.

Because he was the star of a top-10 team mayhaps? I don't expect him to be a star at the next level, but I expect him to be solid -- bits of Deng and Trevor Ariza. I don't see him as an Al Thornton type of bust, but it's possible.

How is Thornton a bust? He was picked at 14 and has a career average of 12 ppg. That is hardly a bust.

Some guys picked ahead of him that year (Acie Law, Corey Brewer, Yi, Brandon Wright, Julian Wright) have been busts.

[hands11]

If there was some way we could get Morris, Brooks and Nikola I would be doing back flips.

I would also be very happy with Brooks, Nikola and Harper

If there was a way to trade down from #6 and walk with Brooks, Tabias, Nikola and Harper that would be a total home run in my book. The downside to getting this many rookies is, how many games will they actually get to play before you are drafting again ?

Wall, Crawford ( plenty at PG. Craw is better as a PG/SG back up)
Nick, Brooks ( this would be exciting depth at SG. Brook is more mature. Longer term replacement)
Booker, Tabias, Harper ( lots of options at the SF inside and out and Harper can spot up at SG )
Dray, Lewis, Seraphin ( Dray with Lewis as his back up works, then you have the beef in Kevin )
McGee, Nikola ( more depth at center then this team has had in a long long time. )

Hamady

Yeah they would be young but I say load up on talent then consolidate later if needed.

From here, it would be easier to move Dray if he doesn't work out. You can roll out Nick if Brooks becomes a stud. Tabias could start in front of Booker maybe eventually.

Gut feeling: Brooks is worth the #6 pick. He will be an absolute stud in the NBA.

A perfect draft as far as I'm concerned would be Brooks, Faried, and Harper.

The Wizards need to trade Blatche. Faried is better by FAR just on rebounding and defense.

Nick Young should play SF. Brooks can step right in and be a very good SG. Harper is a great shooter.

The Wizards would be MUCH better with Wall, Brooks, Young, Faried, and McGee.

I think so. I think he is going to be one of if not the gem of this draft. Kid has a combo is Wade and Kobe in those moves and he is sharp. And he is a great interview. Someone you can put a mic in front of and who could be a leader on a team. Seems like a solid personality. The team could use another leader solid personality to go with Wall.

So we are only separated by Tobias vs Faried. Similar measurements. One has more offense and better handles, the other more rebounds. I guess since we already have Booker, I would want Tabias who adds range and handles to Bookers bruit. Tabias has potential to be a starting two way SF.

I would take Brooks wherever I could all the way up to our first pick as you mentioned. Specially if we can add Vucevic later. I just hope we can trade down and get him and those other players.

I would pass on Kanter and Ves if we could get all those other player.

[hands11]

Extending qualifying offers hardly means that we are going to keep all of Jeffers, Owens and Hamady - It just gives us the option of bringing any of them back if we want. We have flexibility to mix and match depending on what happens in the draft. If we end up drafting - let's say Vesely or Leonard and Jordan Hamilton I imagine we wouldn't keep Owens.

Thanks for clarifying that for me (and others).

Jeffers is coming back. I would bet on that.

Yeah, I think so also. Owen I don't think really stands much of a chance though. Maybe if they fill up all 15 slots though.

[Illuminaire]

I would love for Leonard to be a Deng type. I think that's a really good comparison too, Fish. Deng didn't come into the league as a respectable shooter, but he worked at it. He's also a workhorse, rebounding SF the way Leonard projects to be.

While I'd obviously prefer a Kanter, Williams, or even possibly Val... Leonard will be a rotation player, and I think he'll become a great glue guy. If that's all we can get from this draft, that's too bad... but it's better than nothing.

[Ed Wood]

Well I guess from Al Thornton's perspective Al Thornton isn't really a bust but he isn't any good and isn't any better than two of the guys you tabbed as busts, Brewer and Wright. Wright is actually probably a better player but is hurt constantly so that's a wash and Brewer is pretty awful but Thornton has a couple of years of a large volume of very unproductive minutes on his resume, a case could be made that he was the worst player in the NBA for a stretch in Golden State if your criteria is the player who has the most negative impact on his team (other players were worse but nobody as bad played as much).

Al Thornton is awful, I wouldn't want to draft him period because I wouldn't want him on my team, in that regard: bust.

Also if Valanciunas is falling because he's not going to be in the NBA next year but definitely will be the year after the appropriate response is draft his ass or even trade back and do it and then have the best value you could have had at the pick a year later. Same is true of Mirotic, these are the picks that a good organization makes, those that hold the most value but may look unattractive for what is ultimately not a very important reason.

Ernie, I realize you risk your job to do the right thing in that context, and I'm sorry to rehash a promise already promised, but if you make those picks and get fired prior to the deliverance of their payload I will learn how to edit video and I will make a montage of them being picked set to the father's rendition of "tis a far far better thing" from the movie A Simple Wish.

[hands11]

My dream draft would be for Kanter to slip to #6, and for us to trade our #18 and #34 for a pick high enough to land Klay Thompson. (Thompson would probably have to slip a bit out of his expected range as well.) Our lineup next year:

PG Wall/Crawford
SG Young/Thompson
SF Lewis/M.Evans
PF Kanter/Booker
C McGee/Blatche
End of Bench: Jeffers, veteran big (Kurt Thomas?)
Practice squad: Seraphin, N'Diaye, 3rd string PG

LOL at you putting Blatche were you did. Fat chance of that happening. Dude you lose his mind. If that is your dream, then dream up a trade for him because he is not backing up McGee at C next year.

If that is the roster, I would think this happens instead.

PG Wall/Crawford
SG Young/Thompson
SF Booker/M.Evans
PF Blatche/Lewis
C McGee/Kanter