Official Trade Thread - Part XXV

[Upper Decker]

I'm a wolves fan who sees Wizards as a good partner for Kevin Love trade.
So what do you think about Love and Martin for Beal, Porter, Gortat, Vesely?

Chances love resigns with the wizards is a million to one. Pass.

[nate33]

I'm a wolves fan who sees Wizards as a good partner for Kevin Love trade.
So what do you think about Love and Martin for Beal, Porter, Gortat, Vesely?

Gortat is a soon-to-be unrestricted free agent who surely wouldn't stay on a non-playoff team only to share time with Pekovic. It strikes me as a big waste to include him in this deal. It'll only mean both of us lose him.

The core of this deal should be Beal + Porter for Love. The Wizards need to include another $6M in filler and that could be Vesely and Seraphin.

Another option would be to send out Nene to a third party with a shorter contract coming back to Minnesota. Minnesota would still send Martin to Washington to make the contracts match:

Washington trades: Beal + Porter + Nene
Washington recieves: Love + Martin

Brooklyn trades: Pierce (expiring contract)
Brooklyn receives: Nene

Minnesota trades: Love + Martin
Minnesota receives: Beal + Porter + Pierce

If the Wizards resign Gortat and Ariza and sign Love the following summer, their top 6 would be pretty ridiculous:

PG Wall
SG Martin/Webster
SF Ariza/Webster
PF Love
C Gortat

They'd be pretty expensive though. Wall, Love and Gortat would have near-max contracts. The wings are all being paid $6-7M a year. That'll add up. No room for depth. Also, I'm not thrilled with this team defensively. I'd like them a lot more if Gortat was traded for an Asik/Sanders type of defensive stopper - even if he is less offensively inclined.

[nate33]

I'm a wolves fan who sees Wizards as a good partner for Kevin Love trade.
So what do you think about Love and Martin for Beal, Porter, Gortat, Vesely?

Chances love resigns with the wizards is a million to one. Pass.

Yeah. Gotta keep Gortat or the trade just won't fly.

[hands11]

Gortat is a decent center piece. If he can get signed for 6/7M he is worth keeping around. He is a quality back up that can start if needed. If it was possible, I would swap him for Hawes. He makes for an ideal back up center who can start when needed. Then just bring back Okafor. He should be dirt cheap if he doesn't play this year. Even if he does return this year, the more time that passes, the cheaper he will be. I could easily see him signing a 1 year for MLE. Resign Kevin and Ves for cheap two year deals. Both will continue to get a chance to develop and still be young when they get off those contracts. Ves 2 year 2.5M/Each. Kevin 2 years 2.5M/each Okafor 1yr 5M maybe an option on the 2nd year at 6M. TA 2 yrs 6M/each. I think Okafor would want to return to that team. He will be a UFA.

Wall
Beal/Webster/Glen
Trevor A/ Otto
Ves/Nene/Kevin
Hawes/Okafor ( or Gortat )

Then you just have to decide on Singleton vs Booker or neither. Either would be end of the bench types signed for 1M or 1.5M. Ves or Kevin starts or whoever you keep of Booker or Singleton. PF is open to win.

Then just start drafting and picking up FAs and DL prospects for PF and Center as you spoke them. Cory Jefferson ? Mouhammadou Jaiteh ? Get good and wait for the idea SF, PF move. Team would be good with starters, not great, but they would be great depth so as a total team, they would be up there. Just needs a back up PG if Maynor doesn't show anything more this year. Find a Nate, Wolters, Pierre Jackson, Crawford type to back up PG. A good young prospect might be the way to go. Wall should be mature enough to start filling in behind him instead of needing a vet to help balance him.

That team is set at everything except quality starting PF. Good starters and depth everywhere else. I would see that as progress. No long term contracts getting in the way of a longer term build. Some stability. Okafor brings back rebounding power and defense. Hawes adds rebounding and range shooting. But even if they keep Gortat, that fine. Nice little center combos and it free Nene up from having to play there. And not having a starting PF isn't really an issue since you have Nene off the bench whenever you need that. I would keep him coming off the bench for 25 mins to 28 mins. He is a really good player and hard to replace.

[dckingsfan]

Vesely, Singleton and Seraphin will be gone, IMO. Don't know about Booker.

As it stands we have ($43,165,480) committed with:

Wall/Maynor (stuck with the stench)
Beal
Webster/Porter
Nene

Our three restricted FAs are Trevor Booker, Kevin Seraphin and Glen Rice.

Everyone else is an UFR. I don't see Gortat or Ariza showing loyalty. I think they will go where they can win/make $$s.

This will be a complete rebuild this off-season is my guess - without a draft pick.

[TGW]

Vesely, Singleton and Seraphin will be gone, IMO. Don't know about Booker.

As it stands we have ($43,165,480) committed with:

Wall/Maynor (stuck with the stench)
Beal
Webster/Porter
Nene

Our three restricted FAs are Trevor Booker, Kevin Seraphin and Glen Rice.

Everyone else is an UFR. I don't see Gortat or Ariza showing loyalty. I think they will go where they can win/make $$s.

This will be a complete rebuild this off-season is my guess - without a draft pick.

I honestly think, barring a new GM, the FO is going to throw tons of money at Ariza and Gortat to stay, just like that threw a ton of money at Martell Webster, even though there wasn't much interest for him this past offseason.

I think Ted and Ernie are sold on this core and are going to try and move forward with it. It's typical Grunfeld-era Wizards.

[payitforward]

Gortat is a decent center piece. If he can get signed for 6/7M he is worth keeping around. He is a quality back up that can start if needed. If it was possible, I would swap him for Hawes. He makes for an ideal back up center who can start when needed. Then just bring back Okafor. He should be dirt cheap if he doesn't play this year. Even if he does return this year, the more time that passes, the cheaper he will be. I could easily see him signing a 1 year for MLE. Resign Kevin and Ves for cheap two year deals. Both will continue to get a chance to develop and still be young when they get off those contracts. Ves 2 year 2.5M/Each. Kevin 2 years 2.5M/each Okafor 1yr 5M maybe an option on the 2nd year at 6M. TA 2 yrs 6M/each. I think Okafor would want to return to that team. He will be a UFA.

Wall
Beal/Webster/Glen
Trevor A/ Otto
Ves/Nene/Kevin
Hawes/Okafor ( or Gortat )

Then you just have to decide on Singleton vs Booker or neither. Either would be end of the bench types signed for 1M or 1.5M. Ves or Kevin starts or whoever you keep of Booker or Singleton. PF is open to win.

Then just start drafting and picking up FAs and DL prospects for PF and Center as you spoke them. Cory Jefferson ? Mouhammadou Jaiteh ? Get good and wait for the idea SF, PF move. Team would be good with starters, not great, but they would be great depth so as a total team, they would be up there. Just needs a back up PG if Maynor doesn't show anything more this year. Find a Nate, Wolters, Pierre Jackson, Crawford type to back up PG. A good young prospect might be the way to go. Wall should be mature enough to start filling in behind him instead of needing a vet to help balance him.

That team is set at everything except quality starting PF. Good starters and depth everywhere else. I would see that as progress. No long term contracts getting in the way of a longer term build. Some stability. Okafor brings back rebounding power and defense. Hawes adds rebounding and range shooting. But even if they keep Gortat, that fine. Nice little center combos and it free Nene up from having to play there. And not having a starting PF isn't really an issue since you have Nene off the bench whenever you need that. I would keep him coming off the bench for 25 mins to 28 mins. He is a really good player and hard to replace.

LOL -- Gortat for $6-7m?? That made my jaw drop. Trade him for Hawes? Well, Hawes is definitely having a career year, his best by a lot. So that'd be "buying high."

Bring back Okafor? You don't think maybe he is too injury prone and old? Are these just names to you, and like lets say "oak tree" they always refer to the same thing?

And then re-sign Kevin and Ves, both of whom are overall among the worst players in the NBA, but class Booker, who is solid, w/ a 3d bust, Singleton whom maybe you want to keep? Wow?

And then we're supposed to just "find a ...Wolters" -- a rookie point guard capable of starting... right?

And this leaves us "set"; you see this "as progress?" And we have "no long-term contracts?"

Good thing you're not a GM, Hands, as you have no idea whatever what you are talking about!

[hands11]

Vesely, Singleton and Seraphin will be gone, IMO. Don't know about Booker.

As it stands we have ($43,165,480) committed with:

Wall/Maynor (stuck with the stench)
Beal
Webster/Porter
Nene

Our three restricted FAs are Trevor Booker, Kevin Seraphin and Glen Rice.

Everyone else is an UFR. I don't see Gortat or Ariza showing loyalty. I think they will go where they can win/make $$s.

This will be a complete rebuild this off-season is my guess - without a draft pick.

While anything is possible. I see no reason to believe that will happen over them doing almost the exact opposite as I outlined. Trevor A could stay. He is productive here. And we could be that team making the playoffs. And his buddy Okafor could return. Why leave when you have a home ? Specially if we make some noise in the playoffs. And I would expect Trevor A to be a core part of that. And we can offer him what he should get.

As for any of Singleton, Booker, Kevin and Ves leaving, every game is a new glimpse into how that could work out. Only thing that seems more likely then not to me is that one of Singleton and Booker gets moved. Kevin ? This is his time to make his bones. He is now paired with Nene in the 2nd line up. That a prime op for him. Ves ? Who knows. Can't get better if you don't get minutes. Have to see how Randy does that.

[hands11]

Gortat is a decent center piece. If he can get signed for 6/7M he is worth keeping around. He is a quality back up that can start if needed. If it was possible, I would swap him for Hawes. He makes for an ideal back up center who can start when needed. Then just bring back Okafor. He should be dirt cheap if he doesn't play this year. Even if he does return this year, the more time that passes, the cheaper he will be. I could easily see him signing a 1 year for MLE. Resign Kevin and Ves for cheap two year deals. Both will continue to get a chance to develop and still be young when they get off those contracts. Ves 2 year 2.5M/Each. Kevin 2 years 2.5M/each Okafor 1yr 5M maybe an option on the 2nd year at 6M. TA 2 yrs 6M/each. I think Okafor would want to return to that team. He will be a UFA.

Wall
Beal/Webster/Glen
Trevor A/ Otto
Ves/Nene/Kevin
Hawes/Okafor ( or Gortat )

Then you just have to decide on Singleton vs Booker or neither. Either would be end of the bench types signed for 1M or 1.5M. Ves or Kevin starts or whoever you keep of Booker or Singleton. PF is open to win.

Then just start drafting and picking up FAs and DL prospects for PF and Center as you spoke them. Cory Jefferson ? Mouhammadou Jaiteh ? Get good and wait for the idea SF, PF move. Team would be good with starters, not great, but they would be great depth so as a total team, they would be up there. Just needs a back up PG if Maynor doesn't show anything more this year. Find a Nate, Wolters, Pierre Jackson, Crawford type to back up PG. A good young prospect might be the way to go. Wall should be mature enough to start filling in behind him instead of needing a vet to help balance him.

That team is set at everything except quality starting PF. Good starters and depth everywhere else. I would see that as progress. No long term contracts getting in the way of a longer term build. Some stability. Okafor brings back rebounding power and defense. Hawes adds rebounding and range shooting. But even if they keep Gortat, that fine. Nice little center combos and it free Nene up from having to play there. And not having a starting PF isn't really an issue since you have Nene off the bench whenever you need that. I would keep him coming off the bench for 25 mins to 28 mins. He is a really good player and hard to replace.

LOL -- Gortat for $6-7m?? That made my jaw drop. Trade him for Hawes? Well, Hawes is definitely having a career year, his best by a lot. So that'd be "buying high."

Bring back Okafor? You don't think maybe he is too injury prone and old? Are these just names to you, and like lets say "oak tree" they always refer to the same thing?

And then re-sign Kevin and Ves, both of whom are overall among the worst players in the NBA, but class Booker, who is solid, w/ a 3d bust, Singleton whom maybe you want to keep? Wow?

And then we're supposed to just "find a ...Wolters" -- a rookie point guard capable of starting... right?

And this leaves us "set"; you see this "as progress?" And we have "no long-term contracts?"

Good thing you're not a GM, Hands, as you have no idea whatever what you are talking about!

In usually PIF fashion you missed the mark and missed the tone of the post as you reply with strawman views to make it sound like you have a point.

Not set. Set looking for the next right moves and set up for the FA of 2016. Okafor returning is just one option. Of course it has to do with his health first but if he recovers I've fine with him on a 1 year deal cheap.

What do you mean just finding a Wolters is hard? We already did. We had the pick to draft him and we did. He was a mid 2nd round pick. Players like that are out there PIF. In the 2nd round no less. Right now Cory Jefferson is slotted there. Could have gotten Pierre Jackson as well.

All I said about Singleton was keep him or not. I didn't say I wanted to keep him.

I just laid out one way it can go. That's all. And its a viable option. And if any of this comes to happen, I can hindsight 20/20 right ?

As for Hawes. I said I would like to get him, not that we will. I see little reason Philly would let him go.

As for Gortat. We will see what he draws. What do you think he is going to get ? Just takes one team to over pay but Gortat is proving his isn't a first tier starting center. Just depends on how many other teams see the same. He is inked at 7.7M right now. I don't see what he is doing as showing he is worth more then that.

As for me as the GM. I'm not plugged in enough to know all the deals that could or couldn't happen. Drafting is a little more straight forward. You have clear picks and players available or not. What I don't know is what is doable in trade downs or not. We aren't talking about what the team would look like it I was GM. We are talking about what they might do from where they are. If I was GM, we wouldn't have Kevin, Ves, Singleton or even Glen. We also wouldn't have Maynor. So I fail to see your point beside being a DB. Merry Christmas PIFF.

So PIF doesn't think this will happen. Good sign the way I see it. If history is any prediction of the future.

[payitforward]

Vesely, Singleton and Seraphin will be gone, IMO. Don't know about Booker.

As it stands we have ($43,165,480) committed with:

Wall/Maynor (stuck with the stench)
Beal
Webster/Porter
Nene

Our three restricted FAs are Trevor Booker, Kevin Seraphin and Glen Rice.

Everyone else is an UFR. I don't see Gortat or Ariza showing loyalty. I think they will go where they can win/make $$s.

This will be a complete rebuild this off-season is my guess - without a draft pick.

I honestly think, barring a new GM, the FO is going to throw tons of money at Ariza and Gortat to stay, just like that threw a ton of money at Martell Webster, even though there wasn't much interest for him this past offseason.

I think Ted and Ernie are sold on this core and are going to try and move forward with it. It's typical Grunfeld-era Wizards.

Agreed. It would be a shock if we didn't re-sign Gortat -- as that not happening would make the trade for him look horrible, so it's likely he'll be back. Probably for about $10-11m, which is reasonable value for his productivity level. And Ariza seems equally likely -- he has rebooted his career here; he has played extremely well for us. His salary won't go down from its current level, and it shouldn't. And if Booker stays healthy the rest of the year, he'll certainly get his qualifying offer -- he'd be a bargain and if he gets a better offer it makes a sign and trade possible.

Add a Round 1 pick, and that takes us to @$65m for 10 players. $66m for 11, if we keep Glen Rice.

Singleton and Vesely instantly become veteran minimum players, so they may stay as well. Will Ernie give Seraphin a qualifying offer or, worse, extend him? He is certainly incompetent enough to do that.

Hope we like being a .500 team, an average NBA team, as that's about as high as the above scenario allows us to sniff.

Now... if we trade Nene at the deadline or other odd things happen, who knows? If we get a new GM, we'll figure out how to rebuild again from scratch -- if he's any good, that is.

[theboomking]

I would never trade Beal and Porter for Love. Why trade your second best prospect for him when you might get a chance at signing him outright? Love is going to be able to opt out after next year and we should be able to make the cap room to try to sign him outright. Wall, Love, And Martin are not a championship core as we would soon need another SG. Wall, Beal, Porter, Love and any defensive center is a championship caliber core that could compete for a long time.

[nate33]

I would never trade Beal and Porter for Love. Why trade your second best prospect for him when you might get a chance at signing him outright? Love is going to be able to opt out after next year and we should be able to make the cap room to try to sign him outright. Wall, Love, And Martin are not a championship core as we would soon need another SG. Wall, Beal, Porter, Love and any defensive center is a championship caliber core that could compete for a long time.

We will not have the cap room to sign him outright because he will be looking for a full max contract of $17M, and the only way for us to have that kind of cap room in 2015 is to let Gortat and Ariza walk and replace them with a stopgap guy on a 1-year deal. I don't see management sacrificing an entire season just to give us a longshot opportunity to sign Love. Furthermore, if Minnesota believes they will be unable to resign Love, they will surely trade him at the Trade Deadline next year (if not sooner) rather then let him walk.

[nate33]

Gortat is a decent center piece. If he can get signed for 6/7M he is worth keeping around. He is a quality back up that can start if needed.

A "quality backup"? $6-7M?

Gortat will get $10M a year minimum. And he is clearly a starting caliber center - probably in the top 15 in the league.

[stevemcqueen1]

I would never trade Beal and Porter for Love. Why trade your second best prospect for him when you might get a chance at signing him outright? Love is going to be able to opt out after next year and we should be able to make the cap room to try to sign him outright. Wall, Love, And Martin are not a championship core as we would soon need another SG. Wall, Beal, Porter, Love and any defensive center is a championship caliber core that could compete for a long time.

We will not have the cap room to sign him outright because he will be looking for a full max contract of $17M, and the only way for us to have that kind of cap room in 2015 is to let Gortat and Ariza walk and replace them with a stopgap guy on a 1-year deal. I don't see management sacrificing an entire season just to give us a longshot opportunity to sign Love. Furthermore, if Minnesota believes they will be unable to resign Love, they will surely trade him at the Trade Deadline next year (if not sooner) rather then let him walk.

Love might not opt out. Might not even be in his best interests to do so.

And I don't think it'll be a simple decision for Minnesota to trade Love before the next deadline. I think they're going to do everything they can to try and keep him and they have a decent shot at getting him to opt in.

[mhd]

IMO, Love is going to LA. He's a west coast guy.

[Ruzious]

I would never trade Beal and Porter for Love. Why trade your second best prospect for him when you might get a chance at signing him outright? Love is going to be able to opt out after next year and we should be able to make the cap room to try to sign him outright. Wall, Love, And Martin are not a championship core as we would soon need another SG. Wall, Beal, Porter, Love and any defensive center is a championship caliber core that could compete for a long time.

We will not have the cap room to sign him outright because he will be looking for a full max contract of $17M, and the only way for us to have that kind of cap room in 2015 is to let Gortat and Ariza walk and replace them with a stopgap guy on a 1-year deal. I don't see management sacrificing an entire season just to give us a longshot opportunity to sign Love. Furthermore, if Minnesota believes they will be unable to resign Love, they will surely trade him at the Trade Deadline next year (if not sooner) rather then let him walk.

Love might not opt out. Might not even be in his best interests to do so.

And I don't think it'll be a simple decision for Minnesota to trade Love before the next deadline. I think they're going to do everything they can to try and keep him and they have a decent shot at getting him to opt in.

Ageed. I think people still don't understand how good Love is - and he hasn't reached his peak yet, imo. He's already arguably the best rebounding and passing big in the NBA. I think his shooting and scoring is going to get even better than it is. He's one of the top 5 players in the game, and there's better yet to come.

[dckingsfan]

Vesely, Singleton and Seraphin will be gone, IMO. Don't know about Booker.

As it stands we have ($43,165,480) committed with:

Wall/Maynor (stuck with the stench)
Beal
Webster/Porter
Nene

Our three restricted FAs are Trevor Booker, Kevin Seraphin and Glen Rice.

Everyone else is an UFR. I don't see Gortat or Ariza showing loyalty. I think they will go where they can win/make $$s.

This will be a complete rebuild this off-season is my guess - without a draft pick.

I honestly think, barring a new GM, the FO is going to throw tons of money at Ariza and Gortat to stay, just like that threw a ton of money at Martell Webster, even though there wasn't much interest for him this past offseason.

I think Ted and Ernie are sold on this core and are going to try and move forward with it. It's typical Grunfeld-era Wizards.

First. I think the Wizards will make the playoffs baring injury (although that is almost predictable). Hence, EG will be back, so your premise is sound - they will want to overpay Ariza and Gortat. But they are UFRs, so they get to choose). This means they will most likely slam the door on Vesely and Singleton. They will bring back Booker if he is cheap. Don't see them bringing back Seraphin unless he comes back for the minimum and I don't see that happening. Someone will take a chance and overpay him/or he will be able to make more money overseas.

[Induveca]

We will not have the cap room to sign him outright because he will be looking for a full max contract of $17M, and the only way for us to have that kind of cap room in 2015 is to let Gortat and Ariza walk and replace them with a stopgap guy on a 1-year deal. I don't see management sacrificing an entire season just to give us a longshot opportunity to sign Love. Furthermore, if Minnesota believes they will be unable to resign Love, they will surely trade him at the Trade Deadline next year (if not sooner) rather then let him walk.

Love might not opt out. Might not even be in his best interests to do so.

And I don't think it'll be a simple decision for Minnesota to trade Love before the next deadline. I think they're going to do everything they can to try and keep him and they have a decent shot at getting him to opt in.

Ageed. I think people still don't understand how good Love is - and he hasn't reached his peak yet, imo. He's already arguably the best rebounding and passing big in the NBA. I think his shooting and scoring is going to get even better than it is. He's one of the top 5 players in the game, and there's better yet to come.

Let's be realistic. Love isn't coming to DC.

We'd have to decimate the lineup to get him to the Wizards, and any perceived upside beyond Wall.

Beal/Porter is the bare minimum what they'd take more than likely. Love then suddenly is surrounded by yet another extremely talented, but poor shooting PG, and a poor man's Pekovic in Gortat. Bigger issue is there is no way in hell Love agrees to an extension with the Wizards pre-trade. Just don't see it happening.

Wish it were different, but with his leverage I suspect he'd love to be the next savior for the Lakers or find his way to GS.

[nate33]

Let's be realistic. Love isn't coming to DC.

We'd have to decimate the lineup to get him to the Wizards, and any perceived upside beyond Wall.

Beal/Porter is the bare minimum what they'd take more than likely. Love then suddenly is surrounded by yet another extremely talented, but poor shooting PG, and a poor man's Pekovic in Gortat. Bigger issue is there is no way in hell Love agrees to an extension with the Wizards pre-trade. Just don't see it happening.

Wish it were different, but with his leverage I suspect he'd love to be the next savior for the Lakers or find his way to GS.

I agree that Love won't come to DC as a free agent because we'd have to gut the team to create the cap room to sign him. I disagree that he wouldn't sign an extension though. Outside of Love, we have more talent than Minnesota. Wall is a good bit better than Rubio. Webster and Ariza are WAY better than what they have a SF. Gortat more or less equals Pekovic. And we have Nene.

[Induveca]

Let's be realistic. Love isn't coming to DC.

We'd have to decimate the lineup to get him to the Wizards, and any perceived upside beyond Wall.

Beal/Porter is the bare minimum what they'd take more than likely. Love then suddenly is surrounded by yet another extremely talented, but poor shooting PG, and a poor man's Pekovic in Gortat. Bigger issue is there is no way in hell Love agrees to an extension with the Wizards pre-trade. Just don't see it happening.

Wish it were different, but with his leverage I suspect he'd love to be the next savior for the Lakers or find his way to GS.

I agree that Love won't come to DC as a free agent because we'd have to gut the team to create the cap room to sign him. I disagree that he wouldn't sign an extension though. Outside of Love, we have more talent than Minnesota. Wall is a good bit better than Rubio. Webster and Ariza are WAY better than what they have a SF. Gortat more or less equals Pekovic. And we have Nene.

I sincerely hope you're right. I'd ship out Beal/Porter/salary filler in a heartbeat.