Discuss Ernie Grunfeld's GM skills here (Part 2)

[Kanyewest]

If Oubre is a "proven multi-faceted" player and Terry is a "utility" guy I need to know who your dealer is my friend lol. So far no one has been able to give any distinctive examples on why Oubre is considered this other worldly player compared to his draft class

I think Rozier is solid. He's a very good rebounder. He's also raised his 3 point percentage to a respectable level. And he has a good assist to turnover ratio.

That being said, Oubre has a higher ceiling because of his size and length and being a full year younger than Rozier. He's also a more efficient scorer (TS% at 56.5 compared to Rozier who is only at 50.5%).

Size doesn't gift you a higher ceiling. Presently he's a slightly better scorer, and that's about it. Terry is a better overall player. I don't see any top teams in the league picking Oubre over Rozier.

Right now, I would say Rozier is playing better than Oubre but again Oubre is a year younger. Oubre's numbers are significantly better than Rozier when they were both 22 (http://bkref.com/tiny/7PWkp). It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[payitforward]

If Oubre is a "proven multi-faceted" player and Terry is a "utility" guy I need to know who your dealer is my friend lol. So far no one has been able to give any distinctive examples on why Oubre is considered this other worldly player compared to his draft class

I think Rozier is solid. He's a very good rebounder. He's also raised his 3 point percentage to a respectable level. And he has a good assist to turnover ratio.

That being said, Oubre has a higher ceiling because of his size and length and being a full year younger than Rozier. He's also a more efficient scorer (TS% at 56.5 compared to Rozier who is only at 50.5%).

Size doesn't gift you a higher ceiling. Presently he's a slightly better scorer, and that's about it. Terry is a better overall player. I don't see any top teams in the league picking Oubre over Rozier.

I'm not sure what this dispute is about.

There's no question Rozier has become a solid NBA player. Good for him. He & Oubre are both playing well this season in fact. Does one guy being good make the other guy less good?

As to who is "the better overall player," neither of them has gotten to the point in his career where any judgement like that can be made. Which brings up a relevant point that I think needs to be considered in re: either player's "upside":

Terry Rozier is more than a year and a half older than Kelly Oubre. I'd expect him to be more advanced in his development. Moreover, Rozier came into the league having played 2000 minutes of high level college ball. Oubre had played @ 750 minutes.

Once you stop wasting your time comparing them, there's plenty good to be said about both guys. I'm more interested in Oubre, because -- duh -- he's on the Wizards. It's clear that he is developing extremely quickly given his background -- that definitely points to a high ceiling.

All the same, neither of these guys has established himself yet at the level of Larry Nance, who went well below the 2 of them. But, guess what... Larry Nance is a year+ older than Rozier & almost 3 years older than Oubre!

[OzCastiel]

I think Rozier is solid. He's a very good rebounder. He's also raised his 3 point percentage to a respectable level. And he has a good assist to turnover ratio.

That being said, Oubre has a higher ceiling because of his size and length and being a full year younger than Rozier. He's also a more efficient scorer (TS% at 56.5 compared to Rozier who is only at 50.5%).

Size doesn't gift you a higher ceiling. Presently he's a slightly better scorer, and that's about it. Terry is a better overall player. I don't see any top teams in the league picking Oubre over Rozier.

I'm not sure what this dispute is about.

There's no question Rozier has become a solid NBA player. Good for him. He & Oubre are both playing well this season in fact. Does one guy being good make the other guy less good?

As to who is "the better overall player," neither of them has gotten to the point in his career where any judgement like that can be made. Which brings up a relevant point that I think needs to be considered in re: either player's "upside":

Terry Rozier is more than a year and a half older than Kelly Oubre. I'd expect him to be more advanced in his development. Moreover, Rozier came into the league having played 2000 minutes of high level college ball. Oubre had played @ 750 minutes.

Once you stop wasting your time comparing them, there's plenty good to be said about both guys. I'm more interested in Oubre, because -- duh -- he's on the Wizards. It's clear that he is developing extremely quickly given his background -- that definitely points to a high ceiling.

All the same, neither of these guys has established himself yet at the level of Larry Nance, who went well below the 2 of them. But, guess what... Larry Nance is a year+ older than Rozier & almost 3 years older than Oubre!

No real dispute just splitting hairs and debating young players

We'll see where they all end up in a few years but there's a lot of troublesome young forwards on the rise and coming into this draft as well.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Bump

I'm surprised milellie11 hasn't chimed in about the play of Mike Scott and others are off the bench.

--Nick Young and Javale McGee on the favorite to win the NBA championship. Ernie has to get some credit for them as players.

--Although Bobby Portis is proving that I and many others on this board were right about him; Kelly Oubre is a solid player. Ernie can spot talent pretty well, in the past couple of season anyway.

--Nothing can take away from the boneheaded moves of the contracts extended to Mahinmi and Nicholson. However looking at the current Wizards roster -- Grunfeld has done few things right. He has to get credit where it's due.

This year's roster is way better than last year's bench roster.

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[trast66]

We sit as the 4th seed and would avoid Lebron in 2nd round. Just need to trade our 1st round pick with a contract to get under luxury tax and Ted will consider Ernie the GM of the year.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Bump

The Nets look like they made out pretty well with Jarrett Allen.



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[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Bump

The Nets look like they made out pretty well with Jarrett Allen.



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Well. We got one good week of Bojo.

[payitforward]

We sit as the 4th seed and would avoid Lebron in 2nd round. Just need to trade our 1st round pick with a contract to get under luxury tax and Ted will consider Ernie the GM of the year.

& now, it's...

We sit as the 8th seed. Just need to trade our 1st round pick with a contract to get under the luxury tax, while acquiring "an established player" who will give us the "jolt" we need, and Ted will consider Ernie the GM of the year.

[WizarDynasty]

We sit as the 4th seed and would avoid Lebron in 2nd round. Just need to trade our 1st round pick with a contract to get under luxury tax and Ted will consider Ernie the GM of the year.

& now, it's...

We sit as the 8th seed. Just need to trade our 1st round pick with a contract to get under the luxury tax, while acquiring "an established player" who will give us the "jolt" we need, and Ted will consider Ernie the GM of the year.

And now you see why you don't pay a 3 and d roll player who relies on others for wide open high percentage shots and doesn't anchor the defense with shot blocking all star caliber max money.

[milellie111]

This years bench is a massive upgrade based on the emergence of Oubre, Satoransky, acquiring of Mike Scott and Jodie Meeks. There can be no more excuses or complaining about bad bench play. Even Mahimi has started to surprise everyone. The team is well balanced and the record would be much better without the injury to Wall. The bench has carried the team to victories at times which is key to a successful championship contending franchise. Grunfeld has used resources wisely to put us in a great position for the future. The Wizards have starting caliber players now coming off the bench. The team is deep and one of the best constructed in the East. This bench shows signs of being championship caliber.

[AFM]

SHUT THE PHUKK UP!!!!!

[nate33]

LOL.

Any comments about the starters? This "best constructed team in the East" can barely eek out a .500 record.

In all seriousness, the bench does look pretty good. And outside of Mahinmi and Smith, the bench has been constructed pretty cheaply. None among Frazier, Sato, Meeks, Oubre or Scott are paid very much. But let's not break our hand patting EG on the back. Frazier cost us a pick and it turns out he was unnecessary given the play of Sato. Scott was a great find and the primary reason for the success of our bench, but since he is on a one year deal, we won't reap the rewards for very long. Smith is overpriced as an 11th man, and Mahinmi is an albatross contract. Unless Ted is willing to pay a luxtax, one of those two must go, and it's going to cost picks to dump them.

[montestewart]

Hey Grunfeld thread starter, you already started a thread called Grunfeld Proves His Worth about this year's bench.

Nate quickly locked that one, but you can see he is full of Christmas cheer just now, so let us all bask in the glory that is EG's hairy back.

But no more new threads until next year millie!

Mike Scott's on a one-year deal at age 29, playing for perhaps his last decent multi-year contract, playing for his life, hitting career highs in just about everything. Worst case scenario is EG resigns (for say a 3 year, 25 million contract) and Scott never again comes close to this year. Best case scenario is that this is his only year as a Wizard.

Satoransky, Meeks, Oubre, Scott, Mahinmi (when healthy) look like one of the better benches in the East. Too bad the Wizards don't look like one of the better teams in the East.

[closg00]

What a gift to the board, a little Christmas trolling. 4th highest payroll and hanging around the 7th/8th seed and you're crowing Millie?

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

And a Milllieillie X-mas to all!

[verbal8]

Mike Scott's on a one-year deal at age 29, playing for perhaps his last decent multi-year contract, playing for his life, hitting career highs in just about everything. Worst case scenario is EG resigns (for say a 3 year, 25 million contract) and Scott never again comes close to this year. Best case scenario is that this is his only year as a Wizard.

I think the salary cap rules/situation may somewhat save EG from himself here. The only exemption the Wizards would likely have available would be the tax payer MLE which would be about $5 million/season.

[payitforward]

This years bench is a massive upgrade...

This time last year you were praising last year's bench.

based on the emergence of Oubre, Satoransky, acquiring of Mike Scott and Jodie Meeks.

Praise for Oubre.
Great that Sato is playing well. Would you put him on the level of Draymond Green, Jae Crowder, Khris Middleton, Will Barton, or Kyle O'Quinn in terms of what value he's delivered since he was picked? Still, it's a good thing if one of our players improves. Thanks for pointing it out.
Scott is playing great -- your blind squirrel found a nut.
Meeks is playing quite poorly.

Even Mahimi has started to surprise everyone.

Your hero signed Mahinmi to 4 guaranteed years at more than $60m. Why should it be a surprise if he plays well?

...the record would be much better without the injury to Wall.

Really? We were 10-8 when he went down, & we went 4-5 w/o him -- are you saying we'd have won one more game? Is that what you mean by "much better?"

Since Wall's return we've won home games vs. 4 teams that are a total of 22-45 on the road. A win's a win, but gloating might not be in order. We've lost in Brooklyn where the Nets, overall, are 7-10. & we've lost at home to Cleveland.

The bench has carried the team to victories at times which is key to a successful championship contending franchise.

Not sure I understand you.... What championship-contending franchise do you have in mind?

Grunfeld has used resources wisely to put us in a great position for the future.

Lets see... in our last 30 games, we are 15-15.

The Wizards have starting caliber players now coming off the bench. The team is deep and one of the best constructed in the East. This bench shows signs of being championship caliber.

You forgot to mention that our FO hires some of the best trolls in the league to frequent Boards like this. I mean... am I right? Or are you taking 2d place to someone?

[payitforward]

We have a bench thread. We have more than one Grunfeld thread. This should be frozen.
...now that I've said my piece

[Tricky_Kid]

Milellie111 for some time in future You will wake up from Your delusional dream....

#LifeInAbubble

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[montestewart]

The Wizards have starting caliber players now coming off the bench. The team is deep and one of the best constructed in the East. This bench shows signs of being championship caliber.

You forgot to mention that our FO hires some of the best trolls in the league to frequent Boards like this. I mean... am I right? Or are you taking 2d place to someone?

Unless millie also posts as a dentist from Chicago, he's got some competition.