Political Roundtable Part XII

[gtn130]

I am a climate change skeptic. I believe there has been some manmade global warming, but I believe that the extent of the warming is far less than the alarmism suggests, and I question whether the harm imposed by modest global warming outweighs the costs of trying to mitigate it. (Indeed, I think it is likely that global warming, on balance, will be helpful to humanity.) I also think that combatting global warming with reflective technologies would be far less costly and far more effective than abandoning fossil fuels. Finally, I think that many with a global warming agenda do so for their own personal profit and control.

dude, you don't think there are bigger/clearer/more obvious agendas for climate change deniers than believers? Like, isn't it abundantly clear that climate change policy harms pretty much the entire energy sector? Wouldn't someone like Rex Tillerson have OBVIOUS reasons to "doubt" climate change and invest in delegitimizing it?

I'm not a climate scientist, and I have zero first-hand knowledge or understanding of climate change. But something like 97% of climate scientists agree on climate change, so I'm siding with what they're saying.

I'm sure there is an agenda for both sides. Just as long as we acknowledge that many on both sides have an agenda. And the 97% thing is a total hoax.

Also, your TOTAL HOAX story was written by James Taylor who is literally president of a lobbying firm for "affordable energy"

Here is politifact verifying the 97% claim:

http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2016/apr/04/don-beyer/don-beyer-says-97-percent-scientists-believe-human/

Their conclusion:

Beyer said "over 97 percent of the scientific community" believe humans are contributing to climate change.

The studies Beyer and others cite do not reflect the scientific community at large. They are surveys that focus on the conclusions of climatologists, earth scientists and meteorologists. The studies found that overwhelming majorities of these experts - sometimes, but not always as high as 97 percent - say humans are contributing to global warming.

Beyer’s statement is credible but needs elaboration. We rate it Mostly True.

That's a bit different than "a total hoax" as you put it.

[montestewart]

dude, you don't think there are bigger/clearer/more obvious agendas for climate change deniers than believers? Like, isn't it abundantly clear that climate change policy harms pretty much the entire energy sector? Wouldn't someone like Rex Tillerson have OBVIOUS reasons to "doubt" climate change and invest in delegitimizing it?

I'm not a climate scientist, and I have zero first-hand knowledge or understanding of climate change. But something like 97% of climate scientists agree on climate change, so I'm siding with what they're saying.

I'm sure there is an agenda for both sides. Just as long as we acknowledge that many on both sides have an agenda. And the 97% thing is a total hoax.

Also, your TOTAL HOAX story was written by James Taylor who is literally president of a lobbying firm for "affordable energy"

Here is politifact verifying the 97% claim:

http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2016/apr/04/don-beyer/don-beyer-says-97-percent-scientists-believe-human/

Their conclusion:

Beyer said "over 97 percent of the scientific community" believe humans are contributing to climate change.

The studies Beyer and others cite do not reflect the scientific community at large. They are surveys that focus on the conclusions of climatologists, earth scientists and meteorologists. The studies found that overwhelming majorities of these experts - sometimes, but not always as high as 97 percent - say humans are contributing to global warming.

Beyer’s statement is credible but needs elaboration. We rate it Mostly True.

That's a bit different than "a total hoax" as you put it.

There may be some puffery involved in "97%" claims, and media reporting on science (or medicine, or anything involving math) frequently oversimplifies it and occasionally gets it flat out wrong, but it's repeatedly shown in a variety of measures to be a lot closer to 100% than 50-50.

The transition over the last 10-20 years from global warming skepticism to man-made climate change skepticism is itself noteworthy. If you follow the money and interests, you find many of the same forces questioning the latter that questioned the former. They went from "It's not happening," to "There's not a damn thing we can do about it." Not exactly inspiring my confidence.

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

[Ruzious]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-claims-media-not-reporting-terrorist-attacks-200917625.html

Enough's enough. Either provide proof, or we should consider starting impeachment proceedings for all these statements designed to scare everyone and belittle the press. If he's lying about terrorist attacks, that goes to our national security. The Bowling Green "Massacre" isn't just for commedy shows. It's already got a Wikipedia page with 34 references. It's unacceptible to make claims that the election results were fraudulent while having no proof. If this bullcrap keeps going on, we need to show there are consequences for intentionally mis-leading us and making outrageous claims with no proof.

[montestewart]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-claims-media-not-reporting-terrorist-attacks-200917625.html

Enough's enough. Either provide proof, or we should consider starting impeachment proceedings for all these statements designed to scare everyone and belittle the press. If he's lying about terrorist attacks, that goes to our national security. The Bowling Green "Massacre" isn't just for commedy shows. It's already got a Wikipedia page with 34 references. It's unacceptible to make claims that the election results were fraudulent while having no proof. If this bullcrap keeps going on, we need to show there are consequences for intentionally mis-leading us and making outrageous claims with no proof.

one obvious consequence is that you get elected president

[nate33]

There may be some puffery involved in "97%" claims, and media reporting on science (or medicine, or anything involving math) frequently oversimplifies it and occasionally gets it flat out wrong, but it's repeatedly shown in a variety of measures to be a lot closer to 100% than 50-50.

The transition over the last 10-20 years from global warming skepticism to man-made climate change skepticism is itself noteworthy. If you follow the money and interests, you find many of the same forces questioning the latter that questioned the former. They went from "It's not happening," to "There's not a damn thing we can do about it." Not exactly inspiring my confidence.

97% of scientists will probably agree that there is a manmade component to global warming. The disingenuous part is when people like John Kerry warn us of "crippling consequences" of climate change, and say that "Ninety-seven percent of the world's scientists,tell us this is urgent." Or when Obama says that "Ninety-seven percent of scientists agree: #climate change is real, man-made and dangerous."

The lie is that 97% of scientists believe there are crippling consequences to global warming or that there is any sense of urgency. That number is far, far lower.

The Myth of the Climate Change '97%'

[nate33]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-claims-media-not-reporting-terrorist-attacks-200917625.html

Enough's enough. Either provide proof, or we should consider starting impeachment proceedings for all these statements designed to scare everyone and belittle the press. If he's lying about terrorist attacks, that goes to our national security. The Bowling Green "Massacre" isn't just for commedy shows. It's already got a Wikipedia page with 34 references. It's unacceptible to make claims that the election results were fraudulent while having no proof. If this bullcrap keeps going on, we need to show there are consequences for intentionally mis-leading us and making outrageous claims with no proof.

Where is the high crime or misdemeanor in believing that the press is malicious and dishonest?

[Induveca]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-claims-media-not-reporting-terrorist-attacks-200917625.html

Enough's enough. Either provide proof, or we should consider starting impeachment proceedings for all these statements designed to scare everyone and belittle the press. If he's lying about terrorist attacks, that goes to our national security. The Bowling Green "Massacre" isn't just for commedy shows. It's already got a Wikipedia page with 34 references. It's unacceptible to make claims that the election results were fraudulent while having no proof. If this bullcrap keeps going on, we need to show there are consequences for intentionally mis-leading us and making outrageous claims with no proof.

Where is the high crime or misdemeanor in believing that the press is malicious and dishonest?

But Nate, they've been nothing but 100% honest in their Trump reporting. No malice at all. I have no idea why Trump wouldn't trust their polling. /s

[AFM]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-claims-media-not-reporting-terrorist-attacks-200917625.html

Enough's enough. Either provide proof, or we should consider starting impeachment proceedings for all these statements designed to scare everyone and belittle the press. If he's lying about terrorist attacks, that goes to our national security. The Bowling Green "Massacre" isn't just for commedy shows. It's already got a Wikipedia page with 34 references. It's unacceptible to make claims that the election results were fraudulent while having no proof. If this bullcrap keeps going on, we need to show there are consequences for intentionally mis-leading us and making outrageous claims with no proof.

Where is the high crime or misdemeanor in believing that the press is malicious and dishonest?

But Nate, they've been nothing but 100% honest in their Trump reporting. No malice at all. I have no idea why Trump wouldn't trust their polling. /s

Stfu beach boy

[DCZards]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-claims-media-not-reporting-terrorist-attacks-200917625.html

Enough's enough. Either provide proof, or we should consider starting impeachment proceedings for all these statements designed to scare everyone and belittle the press. If he's lying about terrorist attacks, that goes to our national security. The Bowling Green "Massacre" isn't just for commedy shows. It's already got a Wikipedia page with 34 references. It's unacceptible to make claims that the election results were fraudulent while having no proof. If this bullcrap keeps going on, we need to show there are consequences for intentionally mis-leading us and making outrageous claims with no proof.

It's exhausting keeping up with Trump's almost daily lies, like the latest one about the press not covering some terrorist attacks. I never thought the day would come when we would have a president whose goal seems to be to divide Americans rather than unite them.

[Induveca]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-claims-media-not-reporting-terrorist-attacks-200917625.html

Enough's enough. Either provide proof, or we should consider starting impeachment proceedings for all these statements designed to scare everyone and belittle the press. If he's lying about terrorist attacks, that goes to our national security. The Bowling Green "Massacre" isn't just for commedy shows. It's already got a Wikipedia page with 34 references. It's unacceptible to make claims that the election results were fraudulent while having no proof. If this bullcrap keeps going on, we need to show there are consequences for intentionally mis-leading us and making outrageous claims with no proof.

It's exhausting keeping up with Trump's almost daily lies, like the latest one about the press not covering some terrorist attacks. I never thought the day would come when we would have a president whose goal seems to be to divide Americans rather than unite them.

What's exhausting is 90% of front page CNN stories being Trump stories written deliberately to paint him in a negative light for 10 months straight.

Then when he wins anyways, it gets even worse. Let's not pretend there isn't an agenda to delegitimize his administration.

It's as if they forget 60 million people voted for the man. People have caught onto the outrageous media bias, CNN is just digging a deeper hole for themselves.

[dckingsfan]

Huh??? You took a giant leap there. Where did I come anywhere near saying or implying I equate your post with acceptance of violence? What I said what it wasn't funny, and laughing about it wasn't appropriate.

If you think that protest was fine and dandy, there's not much we're going to agree on.

Okay, where did I laugh about it? Where did I say it was funny?

I assume in their particular case you feel that they shouldn't be allowed to do what they did. Given that and if you were the "authorities" on what basis would you arrest them. Based upon what they said?

I do not agree with them one little bit. But, there is a fine line when you start to restrict free speech. If we are going to do so, there should be a really good argument.

It seems to me you're intentionally completely mis-understanding what I've been saying, because I know you're not that stupid, so I'm ending this conversation.

Sounds like that is best

[Ruzious]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-claims-media-not-reporting-terrorist-attacks-200917625.html

Enough's enough. Either provide proof, or we should consider starting impeachment proceedings for all these statements designed to scare everyone and belittle the press. If he's lying about terrorist attacks, that goes to our national security. The Bowling Green "Massacre" isn't just for commedy shows. It's already got a Wikipedia page with 34 references. It's unacceptible to make claims that the election results were fraudulent while having no proof. If this bullcrap keeps going on, we need to show there are consequences for intentionally mis-leading us and making outrageous claims with no proof.

Where is the high crime or misdemeanor in believing that the press is malicious and dishonest?

Lol, that's what you took from my post. Before I lose any more respect for the lovely posters here, I'm taking an extended break from this thread.

[Doug_Blew]

What's exhausting is 90% of front page CNN stories being Trump stories written deliberately to paint him in a negative light for 10 months straight.

It's exhausting listening to Trump supporters and Trump himself complain about the dishonest media.

Fox News Bitched about Obama for 8 years. The right news outlets brain washed some Trumpsters into thinking the Clinton's have murdered a list of 50 people or so.

Trump won the election and the people on the right are whining non stop about protests, the media, women's marches not including all women.... It's unbecoming.

Trump isn't helping your case about the dishonest media when he comes out and says that the Orlando nightclub and Paris attacks were under-reported.

[Illuminaire]

There is a difference in both quality and quantity of those things, Doug. One right-wing network versus an overwhelming majority of newspaper, radio and other networks. You also have to at least acknowledge that the wikileaks revealed widespread and eager cooperation between major voices in the media and the DNC. Media is almost entirely partisan these days, from CNN down to Zerohedge.

But the left side of the media has bigger guns, more funding, and louder voices. So I don't think it's fair to hand-wave complaints.

As for the "whining" comment, it seems like you are taking anyone speaking about a view you disagree with and calling it whining. Do you think that is really a fair characterization? Even given the disparity noted above? Or the violence seen in many of these protests?

I don't believe it's fair for anyone to claim that complaints about Trump's hyperbole and bluster is just whining - and your point about his foolish words there is will taken. But nor do I think the complaints from from the right should be so quickly dismissed either.

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

[Wizardspride]

I've been perusing right/far right websites and it's amazing the effort they're putting in to defend Trump's "Killer" comments.

President Obama was killed for his alleged "apology tour" while people just excuse what Trump said.

Heck, I still can't wrap my head around the fact that President Obama was asked to do something that no other candidate/President was asked to do in showing his birth certificate....by Donald no less.

And he (Donald) refused to do something that all candidates/Presidents do in showing his tax returns.

But whatever, he was elected anyway.

Yay America!

[Doug_Blew]

There is a difference in both quality and quantity of those things, Doug. One right-wing network versus an overwhelming majority of newspaper, radio and other networks. You also have to at least acknowledge that the wikileaks revealed widespread and eager cooperation between major voices in the media and the DNC. Media is almost entirely partisan these days, from CNN down to Zerohedge.

But the left side of the media has bigger guns, more funding, and louder voices. So I don't think it's fair to hand-wave complaints.

As for the "whining" comment, it seems like you are taking anyone speaking about a view you disagree with and calling it whining. Do you think that is really a fair characterization? Even given the disparity noted above? Or the violence seen in many of these protests?

I don't believe it's fair for anyone to claim that complaints about Trump's hyperbole and bluster is just whining - and your point about his foolish words there is will taken. But nor do I think the complaints from from the right should be so quickly dismissed either.

I seem to remember Fox News having the highest ratings of any news source a few years back. So I would say that they got through to a lot of people.

When Obama was president i could care less about what i considered 'fake news'. I had confidence in my president. I wouldn't think about blaming the media for bringing Obama down. The constant 'fake news' and blaming the media seems like whining to me. If the right really believed in Trump and believed in what he was doing, they wouldn't need to blame the media.

On a different note, It is more worrisome that Trump cannot take ownership of his actions. It's in his DNA to lay blame. Here's a tweet from Sunday in reference to the Judge that overruled his ban.

“If something happens blame him and the court system. People pouring in. Bad!”

To me it seems like there is a lot of 'whining' and blaming from the right. Your guy won.

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

[DCZards]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-claims-media-not-reporting-terrorist-attacks-200917625.html

Enough's enough. Either provide proof, or we should consider starting impeachment proceedings for all these statements designed to scare everyone and belittle the press. If he's lying about terrorist attacks, that goes to our national security. The Bowling Green "Massacre" isn't just for commedy shows. It's already got a Wikipedia page with 34 references. It's unacceptible to make claims that the election results were fraudulent while having no proof. If this bullcrap keeps going on, we need to show there are consequences for intentionally mis-leading us and making outrageous claims with no proof.

It's exhausting keeping up with Trump's almost daily lies, like the latest one about the press not covering some terrorist attacks. I never thought the day would come when we would have a president whose goal seems to be to divide Americans rather than unite them.

What's exhausting is 90% of front page CNN stories being Trump stories written deliberately to paint him in a negative light for 10 months straight.

Then when he wins anyways, it gets even worse. Let's not pretend there isn't an agenda to delegitimize his administration.

It's as if they forget 60 million people voted for the man. People have caught onto the outrageous media bias, CNN is just digging a deeper hole for themselves.

The saddest part, indu, is that seemingly smart people like yourself have totally bought into the propaganda of a serial liar. This mantra that all the media that disagrees with him is dishonest, fake or somehow a threat to our democracy is being totally overplayed by Trump.

But, like most anything else, if you say it often enough--and if you have the Presidency as a bully pulpit--even people who should know better begin to believe it. Yes, Trump is indeed winning...at least with some people.